Insta-kill protection for henchmen

[Weylin]

They sure seem to be prone to getting instantly deleted by AoE attacks, especially from certain bosses, and all EBs and AVs

 

Is there any way to give them protection from taking more than 75% of their max health from any single hit?

Most attacks don't come anywhere near that anyways, but the few that do just absolutely ruin your day, and there's not a lot you can do about it since set bonuses don't apply to these things that are responsible for 80% of your damage output and mitigation as a MM.

[EyeLuvBooks]

I would support this, especially in the higher levels where I don't even summon all my pets during ITrials because the T1s will just melt anyhow. It's not like you still can't destroy the pets with TWO massive AoEs...

[SmalltalkJava]

I like it!    So far the only fix that I’ve come across is the /nature secondary.   I’ve been working on build s for it in the MM forum.   I’m still tweaking it in regards to the pet side of the build.   But here is my results for pets HP so far

 

 

MY health

Base: 998.95

Boosted w/ Absorb:  998.95 + 656.9 = 1655.85

 

T1 Wolves

Base: 574.95

Boosted w/ Absorb  574.95 + 656.9 = 1231.85

YES!  tier 1 pets starting basically every fight with 1200+ HP  I"m going to repeat this one more time.  1231.85

 

T2 Lioness

Base:  768.83

Boosted w/ Absorb:  768.83 + 656.9 = 1425.73

 

T3 Dire Wolf

Base:  963.81

Boosted w/ Absorb:  963.81 + 656.9 = 1620.71

 

-- and this is available roughly every 66 seconds if Force Feedback doesn't proc.

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by SmalltalkJava

[plainguy]

I get what you are saying.

 

But honestly I think its a combo of everything with bodyguard mode. 

 

Its the AOE, the direct damage by the aggro or taunt you created combined with bodyguard mode. 

 

As a Robot Traps mastermind I run into this several times on double group pulls with AOE mobs like COT Demons for example. 

Or a group with a EB in it and I taunt this getting hit by it all.  Which is pretty funny to see the robots drop instantly.  I wonder what the damage would have been without bodyguard mode when I see that happen.

 

 

[kelly Rocket]

Protection from dying in a single hit wouldn't prevent pet deaths in bodyguard mode, as that's two separate hits when you and the pet are both targeted by the same AoE.

[SmalltalkJava]

I agree. Even with nature’s absorb a solid AOE attack that hits me and them will deplete it quickly.  Very quickly 

[Galaxy Brain]

Wonder if pets could spawn with like, a 10 sec invulnerability timer?

[EyeLuvBooks]

On 9/11/2019 at 8:21 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

Wonder if pets could spawn with like, a 10 sec invulnerability timer?

I'm sure someone would find a way to exploit that. Not sure how but...

 

Honestly, I just want my pets to be a LITTLE more survivable in the high-end content

[GunnyBarney]

I'm pretty new to the game (which is to say, still exploring the starting elements and...making/remaking many characters to find something I the most), but even I've noticed how quickly minion/henchmen durability falls off as I level a mastermind. At first glance, I would think that having incoming damage capped to some reasonable percentage of their max health would at least solve some of the rapid-death problems. But as I've dug into the way many skills deal damage (often multiple bursts of smaller damage packets in rapid succession), it would be more appropriate to cap incoming damage over time to a percentage of max health (like 10-15% per second, for example).

 

Also, obviously this functionality would not exist in PvP.

 

Anyways...my $0.02 on the matter, for whatever it's worth.

[ZeeHero]

Some games have pets completely immune to being damaged in PVE which is something I support fully. A class which relies on pets for its damage should not have to worry about said pet dying.

[WumpusRat]

19 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

Some games have pets completely immune to being damaged in PVE which is something I support fully. A class which relies on pets for its damage should not have to worry about said pet dying.

If the pets couldn't be destroyed in PvE, it would make masterminds nearly invincible in bodyguard mode. They'd have the equivalent of nearly 8000hp. It would be more than a bit overpowered.

[ZeeHero]

1 minute ago, WumpusRat said:

If the pets couldn't be destroyed in PvE, it would make masterminds nearly invincible in bodyguard mode. They'd have the equivalent of nearly 8000hp. It would be more than a bit overpowered.

Well bodyguard may have to be adjusted or removed for pets being immune to work out. but it would be an overall improvement to buff pet survival by a lot even at the cost of bodyguard.

[WumpusRat]

3 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

Well bodyguard may have to be adjusted or removed for pets being immune to work out. but it would be an overall improvement to buff pet survival by a lot even at the cost of bodyguard.

I, and I suspect a lot of other masterminds, would be quite irked if they removed bodyguard mode, even if it meant making the pets invincible. Bodyguard mode is one of the things that makes tankerminding viable. It's also one of the tools that can keep a mastermind alive in dicey situations when cc is being hurled around willy nilly by some enemy groups (I'm glaring in your direction, Malta). 

 

I'd be fine with them giving pets some sort of instant-kill protection, or even some basic resistance/defense to aoe attacks in general. But they don't need to be literally unkillable, nor should bodyguard mode get axed.

Edited September 16, 2019 by WumpusRat

[ZeeHero]

Insta kill protection wont be enough for pets. That PLUS double the HP they have now might be.

[Weylin]

Just generally higher AoE resistance would be great as well. Sure you can slot some pet auras, but that gets you what... 30%?

Wont mean shit when an AV is doing 2000-3000 damage in a single strike.

And have fun wiping out a whole tray of inspirations to keep them from dying instantly for 1 whole minute.

[WumpusRat]

1 minute ago, Weylin said:

Just generally higher AoE resistance would be great as well. Sure you can slot some pet auras, but that gets you what... 30%?

Wont mean shit when an AV is doing 2000-3000 damage in a single strike.

And have fun wiping out a whole tray of inspirations to keep them from dying instantly for 1 whole minute.

If you opt for the superior versions of the ATOs, you can get your pets up to +35% resist, +10% defense, and +15% aoe defense (which stacks with the other +10, so +25 total). If you have a set that offers +def or +res to your pets, you can generally softcap them pretty easily. They can still die if the enemy gets a lucky shot with a massive attack, but that's what the insta-kill protection would be for.

[PaxArcana]

On 9/9/2019 at 10:05 PM, Weylin said:

They sure seem to be prone to getting instantly deleted by AoE attacks, especially from certain bosses, and all EBs and AVs

.... you're in Bodyguard mode, and take the hit right alongside them, aren't you?

 

Get out of bodyguard, and stop drawing aggro to yourself.  Your pets will all live much longer ... and so will you.

 

45 minutes ago, WumpusRat said:

I, and I suspect a lot of other masterminds, would be quite irked if they removed bodyguard mode, even if it meant making the pets invincible. Bodyguard mode is

.... the sole and only thing that can keep a Mastermind alive during an ambush, while soloing.  Which is why Bodyguard exists.

[WumpusRat]

4 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

.... the sole and only thing that can keep a Mastermind alive during an ambush, while soloing.  Which is why Bodyguard exists.

Well, I wouldn't say the ONLY thing. Inspirations can let you survive pretty well too. But yes, I would be quite displeased to lose bodyguard mode. I've survived way too many things I probably shouldn't have due to aggro juggling and being able to spread the damage out.

[Weylin]

9 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

.... you're in Bodyguard mode, and take the hit right alongside them, aren't you?

 

Get out of bodyguard, and stop drawing aggro to yourself.  Your pets will all live much longer ... and so will you.

No, no I'm not, they're being idiots and running in to slap every 5 seconds and I'm constantly having to pull them back... but oh! There's command lag, so they run up and instantly die before the command to move back even registers. Infuriating.

 

Furthermore, I space my minions out as much as possible, while still keeping them in Supremacy range, so AoE flung at range, and poison pools are at least minimized.

But this is all for nothing, as they will always break position to slap, and thus, die instantly.

 

Go To? Nope, they break ranks and run to slap.

Stay? Slap.

Passive? Yeah, but now they stop bodyguarding and do fuckall. They still slap if you order them to attack from passive.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Weylin

[Black Zot]

I don't know if it's possible to implement here, but WoW gives pets a massive damage resist buff versus AoE specifically.

 

In any event, pets need way more damage resistance or hp or both than they've got right now.  Summoning them versus purples is a waste of a click.

 

 

And yeah, stop assuming pets are in bodyguard when they're getting one-shotted.  Anything with a big AoE, I'm not standing anywhere NEAR that, thanks much.

[PaxArcana]

8 hours ago, Weylin said:

they're being idiots and running in to slap every 5 seconds

Well, that's more than a little bit of hyperbole.

 

Still, it's obviously a problem not with the pets' resistance to damage, but, their insistence on running up to use Brawl.  Which they never did, not nearly as much, back on Live ... not through Issue 13 or 14, anyway.

[EyeLuvBooks]

On 9/16/2019 at 7:06 AM, PaxArcana said:

Well, that's more than a little bit of hyperbole.

 

Still, it's obviously a problem not with the pets' resistance to damage, but, their insistence on running up to use Brawl.  Which they never did, not nearly as much, back on Live ... not through Issue 13 or 14, anyway.

Oh, yes they did. MM Pets going stupid has been an issue since I've played MMs and I joined right around I9. However, there is an entirely different thread concerned with MM Pet controls and commands so...

 

The idea of greater AoE Resistance seems to be simple yet effective. I would suggest that this be tied to the Supremacy range to deter MMs from sending their minions through artillery strikes to draw aggro.

 

As I said, I simply want my Pets, the heart and soul of the AT, to be viable at the high end of play and currently they're not. Every other AT can use their T1 power right into Incarnate-level missions but the T1 MM Pet is a waste of End more likely than not. Considering that the MM secondary is Support, I can't do my job very well if I'm spending half the mission and half my End resummoning pets.

 

I don't want them to be invulnerable...I just want them to be up for half the mission or more during high-end play.

[PaxArcana]

39 minutes ago, EyeLuvBooks said:

Oh, yes they did. MM Pets going stupid has been an issue since I've played MMs and I joined right around I9. However, there is an entirely different thread concerned with MM Pet controls and commands so...

I didn't say "not at all", I said "not as much".  It's definitely worse now, than it used to be.

 

... and LOADS worse than at CoV Launch.

40 minutes ago, EyeLuvBooks said:

I don't want them to be invulnerable...I just want them to be up for half the mission or more during high-end play.

Let's take another angle on this:  What are your notoriety settings?

[EyeLuvBooks]

On 9/17/2019 at 9:49 AM, PaxArcana said:

I didn't say "not at all", I said "not as much".  It's definitely worse now, than it used to be.

 

... and LOADS worse than at CoV Launch.

Let's take another angle on this:  What are your notoriety settings?

Fair question. I usually run around in the DFB (which I believe has a locked Diff level) until about lvl 12 when I can get my second pet. Then I run at +1/1 or 2 depending (some pet sets seems to be better at clearing mobs). If I'm on a team I'll stick with whatever the team leader is using. At lvl 27 I slot lvl 30 IOs and go +2/2-4 depending (bots seems to have more AoE which is better with large mobs of clunkies vs smaller mobs of Lts and bosses). I usually leave it at +2/whatever until I hit 47 and begin slotting lvl 50 stuff. By then +3-+4 depending on the enemy (+4 Arachnos = BLIND! and +4 Malta = A lot of Sappers and Gunslingers it seems).

 

All of this is pretty moot, though. Once you get into Incarnate-level content the life expectancy of your T1 pets is measured in seconds. I don't know if this is due to the enemies at that level throwing more AoEs, because of the types of damage thrown or merely the amount. The why doesn't really interest me much. I'd simply like to be able to have ALL of my pets up at least half the time unless I'm doing something insanely stupid play-wise (because there is no fix for stupid).

 

I would be happy if everything remained exactly as it is until you slot your Alpha at which point the pets received some sort of 'insta-death' protection. They could still be killed by being double-tapped by an enemy (which is as it should be).

 

The game is about fun. I don't see anyone complaining that MMs are OP and I DO hear complaints that MM pets die too fast, especially at the higher end of the game. All this being said, I'd have more fun if I didn't have to resummon my T1 pets every minute or, worse, pretend they're not their because they won't live long enough to bother. I want my MMs to be fun...that's all.

[PaxArcana]

35 minutes ago, EyeLuvBooks said:

Then I run at +1/1 or 2 depending (some pet sets seems to be better at clearing mobs). If I'm on a team I'll stick with whatever the team leader is using. At lvl 27 I slot lvl 30 IOs and go +2/2-4 depending (bots seems to have more AoE which is better with large mobs of clunkies vs smaller mobs of Lts and bosses). I usually leave it at +2/whatever until I hit 47 and begin slotting lvl 50 stuff. By then +3-+4 depending on the enemy (+4 Arachnos = BLIND! and +4 Malta = A lot of Sappers and Gunslingers it seems).

There's your problem, in part, I think.  Those're making Bosses and EBs show up, even AVs as full AVs and they hit harder (and more often for lots of AoE).  You are intentionally bending the game to be more challenging ... and, I think, pushing it just that little bit too far.

 

Especially since, as you level ... your pets lag further and further behind.  Take your "level 27" example.  By then, you have all six pets ... so your Tier 1s are only level 25, and your tier 2's are only 26.  When you dial notoriety up to +2/whatever ...?  You and your Tier 3 look at a minion and see orange, your Tier 2 sees red, and your poor Tier 1's see purple.  That's MINIONS, not Lieutenants, Bosses, Elite Bosses, or ArchVillains ...!

At which point, it's almost a surprise they live long enough to GET hit with an AoE.  😄

 

So ... maybe try dialing the +'s down a notch, and the x's up a couple, to compensate - so, instead of +1/x2, go for +0/x4; instead of +2/x4, go for +1/x6; and so forth.  You'll have significantly more, but individually less-dangerous, opposition to face.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by PaxArcana