Neiska

Hello you crazy Necros, I had a question. I regularly run 3 box teams of MMs - I have Robots, Demons, and Thugs. I am debating if I want to try a 3 box of Necros, but I am wondering what synergy there might be between them. Robots = Lots, and Lots, of area damage. Stuff just melts if you stack it all. Demons = Stacking resistance buffs, making for some extremely sturdy pets. Its seriously like having a whole taskforce of tankers with you. Thugs = Stacking free leadership toggles, meaning everything is beyond defense caps. I have no great experience with Necromancy, think I leveled one the old fashioned way to 28ish? But from what I have read/heard, they are the debuffers/CC set. So here are my questions, about Necromancy specifically - 1. Do you have any guesses about their target caps? (as in, how many can be affected by Zombie Vomit/Lich Tendrils, so on) 2. What is their damage like? I know its mostly a melee set, but not sure how good/bad they are compared to the other sets. 3. How do they usually favor slotting? Go for the set bonus or do they benefit from damage proc slotting? 4. Do they have any built in buffs? All 3 I have tried so far all have built in features - Robots Bubble Shield, Demons Resistance buffs, Thugs toggles. But unless I missed something, they don't have any built-in features aside from a few -hit things and the liches fear. So do they have higher base stats to compensate, or are they heavily reliant on secondary pairings? I guess my main worry is that in such a high target environment (50-80+ things being fought at once), that possible low target caps on the debuffs/CCs would render them moot, particularly with what looks on paper to be "squishy pets". I power-farm with 3 Mms at a time, fighting 80+ things at once. Might try Necromancy out to give it a whirl, also thinking about beasts possibly as well later on. Thanks bunches!

For my Robot MM I like the Longbow pets. 1. They are thematic, so that's a big plus. 2. They have really good ST damage, which is something the Robots lack, so it compliments the playstyle nicely. Great for AVs/GMs etc. 3. They have an additional -regen debuff, that stacks with my robots debuff. Making a good thing, even better. 4. I sometimes use group fly with robots, they are all ranged so it works great. Well, it turns out group fly also works for longbow robots, as they are completely ranged as well. So longbow are just an all around win for my Robot MMs. For my Demon MMs, I plan on going Banished Pantheon. I use experimented with them before, but not to any great extent. I have heard/read they are the highest DPS pets, but on other ATs they always seemed to die quickly before I could do much with them. I am hoping with my Demon setup they will be more effective. I have also experimented with the Knives of Vengeance, the defensive/buffing sorts. They seemed to have pretty good effect overall and tend to stick around. I am uncertain which pets have the best buffs if people wanted to go that route though.

Another surprisingly tough character I had was my Demons/Electrical MM. The resistance buffs stack, plus +absorb, heals, infinite endurance, strong status resistance built in, plus its not hard to get a hard defense either. It really was everything in one package. Then you have bodyguard on TOP of all of that. Plus since you have infinite endurance and resistance in the set, that lets you take barrier for your incarnate, making your tough pets, even tougher. The damage was fair. I wouldn't call it great, but I wouldn't call it bad either. Tanks can boast def/resistance and status resists, but they cant perform other roles in a group such as a healer or support, offering absorb, endless endurance, and status protection for the whole team. Just saying, if they want a different playstyle with a build that's pretty much immortal that can do decent damage, Demons/Electrical is pretty strong. /Time would be another contender too. I mean you can pretty much go afk with a Demons/EA MM setup. Heal on auto, pets in bodyguard mode, go do dishes.

The point of my post was just to point out that 2 similar posts got closed this week, which I would call it a bit of a charged topic. And, no, I wasn't playing forum police. Going "hey they just closed other topics" isn't forum policing. Reporting, calling attention from the staff and such is. Was just trying to be helpful in light of some rather emotional few day son the forums. Agreed.

@Ironblade - with respect hon, a recent farmer vs anti-farmer discussion was just closed, in case you were unaware. Not trying to play forum police or anything, just saying they just shelved a recent discussion about that.

I had fantastic results with a Shield/Radiation Melee Tanker. Shield is all around good, only weakpoints being a lack of a damage aura and self healing, which Radiation offers. It is also energy damage which is lovely, and has contamination on top of that. Plus its very satisfying to Pop Fusion, Shield Charge, and follow up with Atom Smasher. It has good ST and AoE damage, it just can feel a bit slow when you first start off. But once you get some LotG globals slotted, its a thing of beauty. It hits hard, its survivable/durable enough to go afk with, has built in protection from defense debuffs, it can self heal, has a great damage type, and has both ST and AoE. No real downsides.

I'm capable, you ignore other peoples comments or opinions, as if your own were superior in the matter. You make vague statements, then when someone calls you on them, you claim strawman, when its your own point that gets questioned. You say you want all activities equal, and yet claim you aren't out to penalize people who play more efficiently than others, which in a sense, 100% is affecting their gameplay, despite your protests of "I'm not after your plaything".

Whelp, I foresee this thread getting locked. Just no compromise to be had, its not even a discussion but an argument now.

By "nerfing farms", you are, penalizing farmers. I am not suggesting anything. "You" are the one saying all activities should be equal, regardless activity type, and by extension, other factors such as how many enemies there are, how fast you complete, etc. I mean, if you want to split hairs here, you have to click a Glowie in farms to complete. So in essence, they "are" doing missions too.

orly? Sure about that? If all playstyles are rewarded equally, doesn't that mean harder missions give the same as easy missions? Hard effort vs easy effort = same reward? You exactly are saying that.

Right, you are the one who wants other people penalized for your own decision, and "I'm" the jerk. And no, that is not how "most MMO's" go, that is how single player games usually go. Most games use exactly what we have - the multi-reward system. You get things per kill. You get things for completing tasks. You get things for killing bosses/rare enemies. I mean, lets do a thought experiment here. For arguments sake, lets say they did just as you prescribed and suddenly made it so kills earned you nothing, and that completing tasks is what was rewarded. Do you realize what would happen? First, I suspect a sharp SHARP drop in "players helping players", pretty much immediately. Because you suddenly made resources more of a pain to get. Secondly, it would take much more "effort" to get far "less". Hello stale markets. Third, you can kiss the wide market goodbye. Farmers are likely a main suppliers of such markets. That means less converters, unslotters, catalysts, purple recipies, etc for everyone. Fourth, have you even considered things such as "completing missions 1/day" feature? Fifth, the farmers would figure out which tasks were the most profitable, and speed run those. And in all likely hood, they would do it alone. If you think this change would magically solve the inf/minute ratio across different people and playstyles, I suspect it would only increase it. Possibly dramatically. Because right now, anyone can get "something." Under your system, only certain people would get somethings. Namely those that teamed would be rewarded the most. Which could encourage multi-boxing more, further diluting the pool of players. So yea, that wouldn't pan out like you might think.

Then I am glad you aren't the one in charge, and I very much doubt I am the only one.

Right, lets explore that notion, shall we? You want "all playstyles rewarded equally", I don't think you have fully thought out the full implications of that. But here, lets have a spin at it. Levels - under your argument, a level one will make the SAME inf per kill as a level 50. Hey, fair is fair, right? It doesn't matter that the level 50 needs 1000x more inf than that level 1 does to gear up. Its Fair! Speed - Your rate of kills shouldn't matter either! That would favor bursty high dps classes, how dare they! We have to streamline it 100% for all speeds. Which means you shouldn't earn inf per KILL but per time played. Its the only way! Time - Your time invested in a character shouldn't matter either. Nonono, not at all. Why shouldn't a freshly made level 1 earn the SAME as someone who played their same character for years now, and long ago earned all they needed to gear themselves up? We cant have them earning excess they don't need! That would create a surplus and cause inflation! Team type - Task Forces, Raids, Rando Missions, Street Sweeping? No different activity should matter! Why signup for a task force for any increased reward when you can earn the same just flying around killing random's on the open world maps? Who cares about the higher difficulty or enhancement requirements? That shouldn't matter! All team activites should earn the same rewards! Solo vs team - Why should shy, antisocial, or the introverted be unfairly penalized economically? They will now earn the same inf that they would on a team! Its fair, right? Investment - It shouldn't matter what it COST for you to get where you are now, or what you are capable of. All characters should be the same, economically! Why should a build that cost 800 million infamy be rewarded more than someone who uses IOs 20 items below their level? The inhumanity! Equalize them out I say! Travel time - Why should something like mere "travel" penalize ones earning potential? They should be rewarded for just standing around! Now merely accepting a mission will earn you rewards! Yes. This is how you sound. As much as this has been talked about before, they have already nerfed farms already, to the point where other activities are just as lucrative, others are even more so. And any time one of us farmers point out that playing the market is by FAR the quickest most efficient way to get wealthy, I have yet to hear any single "anti farmer" address or even comment about it. Farming maps can be small. Consistent combat. And quickly repeatable. Sorry if your story mode requires things like travel time, or escorting, or clicking a glowie. Those are the kinds of missions that slow things down. And you would rather penalize people who put in what I would argue, far more time, effort, and money invested into what they have, than you are willing to just accept "hey, they kill more things than I do, faster." Yea, but no. If you want to break it down to the nit and grit, farmers kill more, faster. Its as simple as that. It shouldn't be any shock to anyone that they earn more than the slow-mode methods of play.

And that playstyle is open equally to everyone, others simply choose not to use it, and such is enough to give it the brand of Cain? And you aren't the judge and jury either. Just because you don't use the tools provided, don't push your choice onto others, particularly when it's unwanted. THATS the crux of the argument from where I sit. I care less about the economical aspects than the "I don't like what THEY are doing even though its perfectly allowed", particularly when the argument is defended with economical implications, when there are far more egregious actions with more severe impacts. Don't want to farm? Good for you. Then don't. How about you leave the people who do put in the time, effort, and patience into farming alone?

The advantage of multiboxing MMs is if you plan ahead it allows more freedom. You could 2 box a Ninja/Kin and a Ninja/Time and end up with quite sturdy and high damage pets. You could juggle the Power Boost + Farsight for a lot of Defense, then when that wears off you could pop Barrier to cover the gap in coverage. That would even leave you 1 spare incarnate power to pick, which you could take another Barrier if you didn't want to use the /time trick, or you could take ageless for END management. But I am sure you could pair a ninja/kin with another MM to make the pets touch enough for hardest level difficulty. I started with Robots/EA and Robots/Time myself.

At this point I think it's clear that not everyone is going to agree, as people have different objections or goals. Not everyone is going to like all playstyles either. Personally, I am at the point where I power level more than I farm, mostly to try out new ideas or builds. Inf isn't even really a concern to me anymore. But what does make me perplexed is how the crux of the disagreement here, is how some people are efficient with their play, and that seems to irk other players. Honestly it's starting to feel like a home owners association, with someone measuring my front lawn and going "Hey! That's too much!" when my next door neighbor has a veritable forest, they are worried about my lawn being a quarter inch higher than theirs. When "your boi" over there is planting entire forests. And I am genuinely curious as to where people get their data from. Do people actually have proof that farming does X Y and Z, have access to player numbers? Some sort of secret inner working knowledge or access to the numbers? Or are they going off what they think, feel, or suspect? (Opinions are not facts.) Personally I go off my own experience. I know what I make how fast I make it and how fast I spend. And I have noticed far less farmers now than there were a year ago. (it seems to come and go with playtimes as might be expected, but overall, it just seems lower to me.) Anyway, best wishes to everyone, if you are a fellow farmer or not. Just please be kind to one another, even if you disagree. Its okay to disagree, just please be respectful about it. This community is already small enough.

@I-Dirty - Hello I-Dirty, and welcome back. Rad/Shield would indeed be powerful. Shield is positional, with a fantastic teleport charge attack and the set has built in status things which is nice. The downside to shield is it has no set heal, but Rad melee has siphon in it. It may be strong enough to be your full heal, but even if it isn't, it certainly will save on green pills. Also as a bonus, Rad melee also has a damage aura, one of the best ones in fact. So there is that too. Rad melee itself is well balanced, its got aoe, single target, its energy based, its just a little slow for some. I also recommend joining the discord if you haven't yet, as there are AT channels there for help as well. Also if you were unaware, I would install MIDs to plan your character. And now that you got me thinking, I might make a Rad/Shield Tanker myself.

Well, you may have to start small first and work your way up. Everyone does for their first character, whether its a farmer or not. Since you are a budget build I would try to focus on either DEF or RES first, and get one of those up to par. Either one will work, but I don't think you could do both on a budget, would be an interesting experiment to do though. Either way I doubt you will be able to make a full AFK farmer on a budget either, so you will have to pilot it until you get him geared up. But with any build, persistence is key. I also strongly recommend planning builds in MIDs if you haven't yet. It's difficult for people to point out improvements without seeing your build. But any improvement is better, and you may have to upgrade your IOs 1 at a time, starting with the important stuff first like the unique enhancements and so on, go for the biggest bang for your buck.

Personally unless I am penny pintching I tend to sell en masse. Multibox farming 3 characters fills up a lot of inventory fast, even things like converters. So I usually wait for a good time to sell in bulk. The majority of my day to day inf gain is from just selling stuff like piles of white recipes to vendors, but I've put up 30+ orange salvage before, and so on.

I would agree on your general point, but I disagree that farming is the sole root cause. If they want to remove inf from the economy, simply making more money sinks would be more prudent. Upkeep on base costs/parts for an example. A change that I suspect would be unpopular, but if a stale market (more money added then removed) is the concern, then farming is also a drop in the bucket. I would argue there isn't enough uses for INF largely aside from enhancements, there is little other uses. When any character once they are fully geared up can accumulate an infinite amount of INF regardless of activity, only the speed/rate at which it does so changes. If people want to change that, there has to be more INF dumps than simple enhancements, as that only goes so far. I mean there is what? 80 slots on a character? Even if EACH slot was 20 mil per that is still 1.6 billion inf to fully gear, a laughably small amount in a characters possible accumulation. More moneysinks would be more efficient at curbing inflation than removing/punishing aes/farmers.

Thank you for your thought out and composed reply, but I still disagree. 1. People compare farming to teaming, while ignoring raiding, soloing, or the most impactful, playing the market. If money was the sole concern here, then the anti-farmers aim is misdirected as those who play the stock market simulator make far more money in far less time than any farmer is capable of. But the "stock players" are unseen, and as far as I can tell, no one topic was made to discuss such. 2. I disagree that "farmers take so much to make." When you can make a farmer fairly cheaply who can run level 50 content with minimum effort, and upgrade to higher difficulties as you go. To make a famer who can go all out on any map type on +4/8 with elite bosses enabled, sure, that's an investment. But anyone who is fully t4'd, and fully geared up, is an investment. Farmers are hardly unique in this regard. 3. Sure, some farm builds can go afk. But so can others. Brutes and Tankers are the most common, but I have a MM that can go AFK, as well as a Crabbermind that can both go fully AFK with 1 power on auto and go do dishes and clear a map with the highest difficulty settings. Again, farmers are not special in this scope. With regard to the "if they aren't farming, they aren't teaming" point you made, on that I fully agree. I do believe that is the core of their argument. Take all contexts and put them aside, it is one group of players doing something that another group doesn't like, and are complaining about it. I don't like or enjoy PVP, but I don't make threads asking for its removal. I don't particularly enjoy the gogogogo mentality of random teams either. I solo more often than I team. I might join a PI group to help heal, or might go on a roleplayed mission, or do a random TF if I am feeling particularly adventuresome or bored, but for the most part the majority of my time is alone with my 3 box team. And I would rather play entirely solo, or move onto another game entirely, than have resource generation nerfed to the point where Teaming was the best or only, option, which is what I suspect many are hoping to push as the new "normal." Essentially I see it as one child looking at another child playing with a toy. The first child doesn't like the toy, but doesn't like the other child enjoying it either, and cries to the parents to have that toy taken away. (I am not insinuating anyone is a child or anything, only illustrating as an example.) People are free to play the game as they like. This includes the farmers, even if some people don't personally agree or like it, its still "valid" game play. It isn't cheating. It isn't breaking any rules. Anyone and Everyone can do it if they want to. I would call that "fair". Just as I am fine with not getting every badge or accolade by being more of a farmer. If someone doesn't like it, or doesn't want to put in the time, effort, or resources, then fine. But stop torpedoing those that are, will, or did. And just because someone personally doesn't like it, because it takes time, or "a lot of inf", or its "boring", doesn't make it unfair, if everyone has the same access. I simply choose to use a tool and method available to me. Others may not. Calling that unfair for a decision on their part is disingenuous.

First, do you mean radiation melee/fire armor, or fire melee/radiation armor? Second, were all your toggles on? Third, was your fire resistance 90%, and defense 45%? May want to double check. Not implying anything on your game knowledge or skill, but a fire armor properly slotted should be able to get up, go to a 4 year educational program, come home, and still be alive and well, at least vs fire damage enemies.

No. And here is why. First off, "Imbalanced" is subjective. Yours, mine, the staffs, no one will kiss your elbow agree down to the inf per minute on what is or isn't balanced. Secondly, I view it more as a (time x activity) - investment = Y sort of formula. Not a linear "X activity should get X rewards". Thirdly, by what metric are we going by here? Your argument uses what as a baseline for comparison, precisely? And where is it stated that activity is the "base" core of the game? Is Raiding the base? Teaming? Open world? Street Sweeping? By what measuring stick are we comparing to here. Lastly, Imbalanced would imply that not everyone can do it. Everyone has the same access to the same tools and methods. Some choose to farm. Others don't. Those that don't get other rewards - merits, badges, teleport points, accolades, hami drops, or whatever other activity they choose.

@RonJ73 - Thank you very much!

Want to know why I started farming and created multiple accounts in the first place? The gogogogo mentality in random groups. There are still missions, story arcs, AVs, GMs, and Raids that I have never done before, not even once. Even though I have played for 2+ years. No one explains anything. Most groups don't even speak much. We just zip right on through as fast as possible, me without a clue as to what is going on, then I will see an 8 second animation with some big baddie doing his "Bwahahah! You'll never stop me Heroes!" with me there like a deer in a headlights and not a clue to who this guy even is, or what his plans even are. This isn't even counting things like team teleport that just whooshes me to some unknown corner of the map with zero idea where I am, how to get there, or what I am supposed to be doing. Most of the time, I don't even know if badges are involved. Heck, I have badges that I have zero clue how I earned them. So, its a bit difficult to get overly invested into stories and open world content. Sure, I'll join a PI group and help out healing for fun. Sure, I will join the random Story mission. But I have yet to be on a Hami Raid. Heck, I still have never been on a Mothership run or even how it works. And my highest level character is almost vet level 300 now. Anyway, my main point is, that if I wanted the "gogogogo! fastafastafasta!" play, in content unknown to me with a bunch of random strangers, well, I would have kept playing other games such as ESO or Wow. And I am pretty certain I am not the only one. At least this game has ways/options for me to get strong all on my own if I want to, not all games do. Which for me is a BIG part of the attraction here. I don't "have" to put up with the randomness of strangers and give the RNG gods my firstborn for purple gear. I can do it all on my own at my own pace and time. Not everyone feels that way obviously, but, just sharing what got me into farming here in the first place. Best wishes