PeregrineFalcon

This isn't a trap, and it isn't supposed to be beneficial, this is a deliberate damage nerf to tanks. Although it should be very clearly spelled out as such in the patch notes once they go live. It's my belief that the fact that it isn't clearly spelled out is the reason that the forums aren't on fire right now. And I'd be willing to bet money that the Council of Thirteen deliberately chose to word the patch notes that way in order to delay the flamage until after the patch went live.

I don't know why it's discouraging. Nerfs happen in video games and I think that most of us would be hard pressed to argue that nerfing Tanker damage a little bit isn't warranted.

No, it actually doesn't. In the new build Tankers do even less damage than before. It's just a flat rate so to math is easier, but it's not in any way "better."

What? Why? The new numbers suck, but it's still more damage that zero. And more damage helps to hold aggro. They are altering the deal. Pray they don't alter it any further. .

I'm liking Tanker Energy Aura less and less. One of the neat things about Energy Aura is Energy Cloak. This causes the set to play differently than other sets, and is one of the reasons that people wanted EA proliferated to tanks. And it's not like stealth is verboten on tanks. A tank can still have a stealth IO and/or a stealth power pool power, so why was it necessary to remove Energy Cloak?

How about: "A Little Heated" or "Mildly Upset" or "Listen here, pal!"

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While that's quite obviously true (Energy Melee, Rune of Protection, etc.) it's never stopped anyone from flipping out in the past. I wonder though, is it because people now realize that it won't matter or because they no longer care. I really hope it's not the second option.

I agree that "this will reduce the damage of Tanker AoEs" should be in the patch notes somewhere when the patch finally goes to the live server. I doubt that the min/maxers who 3 or 4 proc every attack will need to be told that it will reduce proc rate. Even I realized that and, as we all recently saw in another thread, - not gonna say which one - my math skills have definitely dropped considerably over the years. However, I think that the fact that proc damage itself is also subject to the overcap diminishing returns is something that may not be immediately apparent, and it should also be explicitly mentioned in the patch notes. Finally, I'm actually quite shocked that no one's flipped out about the nerf to Rage. So good job there!

I think he was trying to say that he likes big buffs.

I know that the proc rate is reduced because of the increased size of the AoEs. But is the -damage for Overcap being applied to the procs as well? And if not, is this reduction in damage output affecting attacks without procs more than attacks with procs?

Yeah, let's go ahead and make fun of people who are giving feedback that you don't like. That's a great way to encourage people to participate in testing and giving feedback, right?

Do Scrappers have any good reason to be on a team?

I only have two tanks at level cap. My main, Inv/Em and a Will/SS. Maybe that's skewing my perception, as they both only have one damaging AoE. I haven't noticed any difference in the damage output of either of them on test as compared to live. Now, I didn't break out the stop watch, so maybe that's why, but I think that if the damage were a significant nerf that I'd at least notice. So does this nerf really affect proc monsters builds more than ordinary tankers?

I don't think the developers were worried about Overload being too strong, I think they were worried about the set itself without Overload being too strong. I also suspect that the devs are going to proliferate the new Overload to the other ATs. I suspect they didn't do it in this patch is so they could watch it and see how people like it and how it preforms on live before changing the other versions.

Ok, I finally had time to get back on the test server, check the numbers, and do the math correctly, by multiplying the unenhanced Brute numbers and then adding in the enhancements. Actual Tanker numbers on TEST w/even level SOs: 35.1% E Defense 26.52% S/L/F/C Defense 21.84% N Defense 0% Psi/Toxic Defense 46.8% E Resist 31.2% S/L/N/P/T Resist 11.7% F/C Resist What Tanker numbers would be if it was a straight port from Brute (assuming I actually did the math right this time) w/even level SOs: 42.79% E Defense 34.22% S/L/F/C Defense 29.56% N Defense 7.76% P/T Defense 35% E Resist 19.45% S/L/N/P/T Resist So, it looks like the actual Tanker version has a little lower defenses and a little higher resists than it would have if it were a straight port from Brutes. Also Brute and Scrapper EA actually has some Psi and Toxic defense while the Tanker version has none. Also, I think I found a bug on Brute EA while on test. Brute EA/Energy Cloak grants 3.75% Defense to all. But, when enhanced with even level SOs Brutes have 5.85% Psi defense but 6% Toxic defense. I can't account for the difference unless it's a bug. Obviously I don't know if the bug is with the power or with the powers display.

Yes, I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that that was over four years ago and a dev since said that they'd post another road map, but that never happened.

So there's really a couple of issues here. The first one is that Eliot wrote an article where he's clearly upset that Controllers, especially plant controllers, are being nerfed. Second, is where he compares the Council of Thirteen to Paragon Studios by saying: a complete failure to understand or establish whom the game is being balanced for, much less why. And I'd like to point out that he's completely correct about that. In the past we've asked for a 'roadmap', or whatever you'd like to call it. A dev even told us there'd be a roadmap, but there's no roadmap. Now if the Council doesn't want to publish a statement, a roadmap, or whatever you want to call it because plans change then that's completely understandable, but then you can't complain when someone says "we have no idea what the devs plans are and we're not sure that they have any idea either." I think the bottom line is: either publish a statement with your plans and/or goals for balance and game direction (it doesn't have to be super specific) or just come out and admit that there is no plan and you're just doing whatever strikes your fancy. Either one is fine, but please say something. Next issue is a comment on the article written by Bree. Now normally a comment wouldn't really be worth discussing, but the person who wrote this comment, Bree, is the editor in chief of MOP and Eliot's boss. In this very long comment she basically claims that, in the Homecoming Discord, the players who are there advising the devs and in closed beta are a bunch of "short-sighted", "arrogant", and "toxically positive" people with a "fuck you I got mine" attitude, to use Bree's words, who shout down any critical feedback, and call anyone critical of any change as haters or old players who hate change. Now I'm not on the Homecoming Discord server anymore, haven't been for awhile, but my experience when I was doesn't allow me to disagree with her claims. And my experience on this forum certainly matches her statements to a 'T'. My concern is that by being surrounded by these toxically positive yes men has put the devs in a bubble where they no longer understand what the community wants.

It's weird too. They talk about the devs supporting the DPS "rusher meta", and yet the devs just nerfed the damage output of tanks. And maybe I missed it, but I didn't see a big buff to any other AT's damage output. So where's this huge support by the Homecoming devs of this supposed "rusher meta"? Now I haven't been on the Homecoming discord server in years, so I don't know if you all are as "toxic and arrogant" as she claims, but I have to agree. It looks to me like she's really angry and really grinding that axe.

I think Bree might be a tad bit unhappy about the current "Rush, rush, rush, DPS, DPS, DPS!!!!" meta.

Oh, man. You're right. I should have done the math on the base power before adding enhancements, not after. I'm so dumb. That's twice now that my numbers were wrong. Ok, I'll go back onto test tonight after work and see if I can math properly. 😟

Ok, so I checked the numbers and did a better comparison. Here's the actual numbers for a level 50 EA Brute with even level SOs on test: EDIT: I deleted the numbers because they were wrong.

I was on the test server and this is my feedback: EDIT: I deleted my numbers because they were wrong.

Let me see if I can explain why this is a nerf for Tanks in a way that you and I will both understand. And, as usual, if I'm wrong someone please correct me. Self damage buff lowered from 1.0x to 0.875x This a nerf to Build Up and Rage. - Nerf -Res modifiers lowered to match other melee ATs Less ability to reduce the resistance of enemies. - Nerf Diminishing returns: In powers that had their target cap increased from 10 to 16, each target above 10 will take 25% less damage than the previous target Reduced damage output of AoEs. - Nerf In powers that had their target cap increased from 5 to 10, each target above 5 will take 44% less damage than the previous target Reduced damage output of AoEs. - Nerf Gauntlet is immune to these diminishing returns No change. Removed passive global Arc/Radius buff This one is complicated. The damage of AoEs varies by their area of effect. Smaller AoEs do more damage. The bonus meant that the damage was based on the base value, but the actual area hit was increased by the bonus from Gauntlet. Now that the AoEs are larger their damage will be reduced to match their actual area of effect. - Nerf Increased the radius and range of all tanker Primary and Secondary Cones by 50% Cones no longer have their arc boosted See this looks like a buff, and it would be if it were on a Blaster, but on a Tank its a nerf. See the cones will be longer, sure, but they're also more narrow. Who cares if they're longer? A tank will have the enemies clustered as tightly around them as possible, so a long narrow cone is going to miss a lot more enemies. Think Cleave vs Breath of Fire. Which one is going to be better for a tank? - Nerf Increased the radius of all tanker Primary and Secondary Sphere AoEs by 50% The increase wont push radius above 15ft Ok, so these two look like a buff, right? They're not. Remember, the bonus area of effect was removed. And then it was added back in by just increasing the base size of the AoE. Which, as I mentioned above, means that the damage will be reduced by the AoE size and then further reduced on some enemies by the new 'Diminishing Returns' addition. Oh, it will also reduce proc rate. So builds that rely heavily on procs for damage will have their damage output lowered as well. - Nerf So did I miss anything everyone? Is there anything in these notes that looks like a secret buff that I missed?

Be warned all! The End of Days is nigh! For as it was written lo those many years ago in the scriptures of the Heronomicon; "You will know the coming of the end times for it will be heralded by three great boons. The first boon, accompanied by the cheers of the long oppressed, will be the unnerfing of Regen. The second boon, accompanied by the tolling of the great bell of Minmaxius, will be the momentous granting of EA to tankers. And the third boon, accompanied by a tremendous noise like unto an enormous stomping of feet, will be the arrival in the city of the paragons of scrappers with super strength." The first two of the Three Great Boons, these heralds of the End Times, are nearly upon us! I say to you now that it is only a matter of time before the arrival of the third Great Boon and the beginning of the End of Days. So get ye to the Well and fortify your Destiny. Prepare yourselves, heroes and villains, for what is to come.