Chris24601
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Everything posted by Chris24601
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I know they’re not films, but the generally linear nature of missions makes them much closer to traditional storytelling than not. That means much of the appeal is playing out the role of protagonist in a story. It’s not an accident that Red-side populations hover at around 15% or less of the total player base... it’s human nature. Human nature is that most of us perceive reality through the lens of being the protagonist of our own stories who actively struggles to overcome external forces (even if its really an internal problem, human nature is to externalize/cast blame outside one’s self) in linear time with a defined beginning and ending and we hope to receive what we feel out our just rewards for our efforts (and that those who wronged us get theirs too). In general, the number of people who don’t ascribe to that worldview and thus find other story structures appealing is around 10% of the population and nothing is going to change that. The reason my professors spent so much time time drilling that into the students was not to say “don’t write that way” but to make you understand that the potential audience for a story with a non-classical plot is much more limited and to budget your project accordingly. Bringing this around to Red-side it means you’ve basically got two, mutually exclusive, options. You can have a larger playerbase (by focusing on writing for the rogues) or you can have your “monsters win” content (by focusing on writing for the villains) But you can’t have both because there’s just not enough of the player base comfortable with playing an outright villain to ever get you past that 10% threshold (the extra 5% Red-side are most likely those running the arcs where they can feel like the villain protagonist, more a rogue, in a classical story construction).
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The key thing for me in improving Red-side is understanding the appeal of a villain protagonist and, further, the tropes you need to employ when said stories about a villain protagonist end with their victory (versus one that ends in failure or a pyrrhic victory). As someone who actually took classes on screenwriting, the most important thing you’re ever taught is that stories which don’t employ classical plot structure appeal to less than 10% of the population. This is important because one of the most critical elements of classical plot structure is that the protagonist must get their just deserts. That means if your story protagonist is a straight up villain (ex. MacBeth) they need to be defeated in the end. Darth Vader is cool and people may fantasize about being him, but most who do are NOT fantasizing about when he murdered the younglings. They’re mostly fantasizing about having the power to do whatever they want to people they feel have wronged them. He also gets bonus points for his ultimate heroic sacrifice proving that he wasn’t actually “all bad.” The way you write around this issue and allow the villain to win in fiction is right there in the fantasy... the audience needs to feel that the villain’s victim(s) deserve what comes to them. That’s why heist films often revolve around stealing from a corrupt or evil target (or is being done under duress and a critical part of the story is how the protagonist(s) ultimately reverse the situation to deal with the villain who put them under duress). It’s also why many villain solo titles end up pitting them against a bigger bad (including hypocritical heroes; one reason why the “Longbow is mind controlling villains” arc works because their righteous comeuppance feeling earned). The number of potential players who will enjoy arcs where you get away with harming the innocent is, if the numbers the professors of screenwriting provided hold true in this medium, about 10% of the audience of a heroic one (including one where a villain targets someone deserving). Basically, if you want to grow the Red-side population you need more content that is less Westin Phelps crushing the hopes of the innocent (appeals to maybe 10% of general audiences) and more like the Rogue alignment and morality missions where the plucky protagonist outplays the bigger bads and/or hypocritical heroes and walks away with whatever they were after in the process (appeals to 90% of general audiences). Or to be even more succinct; write mainly for the rogues with an option for being a complete monster instead of writing arcs for complete monsters as the default (that may or may not have an option to fail a final timed mission to feel a bit less like a heel). The biggest problem vanilla Red-side had, from my experience was that while there were a fair number of more rogue-ish missions in the lower levels... those really started to peter out in favor of “be a complete monster” missions the higher in level you get. In lieu of new content (which will take time), one way to help make Red-side more appealing would be to clearly label the existing contacts/arcs as either “Rogue” (primary targets of the arc ‘deserve’ it) or “Villain” (primary targets don’t deserve it) AND adjust contact introductions so that you don’t need to finish a villain arc to be introduced to a new rogue contact or visa versa. This will create a cleaner path for those who want to experience Red-side without playing as a complete monster (and make it easier for those who do want to be complete monsters to pick the right contacts as well).
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Ouroboros: Expand patron arcs to all alignments
Chris24601 replied to Replacement's topic in Suggestions & Feedback
My issue is that my theme pretty much required an electricity based epic/ancillary pool, but charge or electricity mastery just isn't available to a scrapper (or tanker or brute or stalker for that matter). You've basically got fire, dark, weapons and laser-eyes; while lightning, a rather significant elemental theme, can only be gained via the villain arcs (adding cold mastery for the melee ATs would also be appreciated). I solved the problem in my head by declaring that my character also has an evil Praetorian version who went to the Rogue Isles at level 20, and that the unlock missions were done by said evil twin who didn't actually need the arc to unlock their innate ranged lightning powers, but did those things because they were a villain (rogue technically). Maces and Spirit Sharks and Ghost Widow's particular brand of necromancy? sure, make those patron dependent. But LIGHTNING? That's just such a generic power concept that gating it behind a villainous dip is ridiculous. Leave off the tier-5 Summon, re-color the default to blue and make Charge Mastery with only four picks a thing for the melee ATs. And yes, add a cold mastery option too while you're at it. -
Hasten: Make it Inherent, or get rid of it?
Chris24601 replied to Abysmalyxia's topic in Suggestions & Feedback
Indeed, this is kinda where all of these various discussions ultimately break down... there is a truly massive gulf between; - a fresh 50 slotted with SO’s and has “normal” thematic power picks (i.e. picks pool powers based on theme rather than mechanical strength). and - a 50 that’s taken all the “power” pool picks (hasten, tough, weave, etc.) that’s been fully IO’d with purple sets and all six incarnate slots filled with tier-4s. -Throw in a well-slotted 49 IO build into that evaluation as well, because it probably outperforms the SO-slotted 50. So where exactly do you balance a theoretical level 50 piece of content? Because what will be a challenge for the SO’d 50 at +0/x1 would be a cakewalk even at +4/x8 for the purple IO’d perma-hastened full t4 incarnate and what would be a challenge for that uber-50 would utterly destroy the SO-only 50. THAT is the perspective that many of these “nerf” threads are coming from... that the state of the late game due to the combination of IO’s, incarnates and powers like hasten create such a disparity in performance that creating content that can challenge without being either overwhelming or a cakewalk to non-trivial portions of the playerbase is virtually impossible. -
Hasten: Make it Inherent, or get rid of it?
Chris24601 replied to Abysmalyxia's topic in Suggestions & Feedback
In regard to the bolded part, I wonder what the behavioral change would be if they just swapped Hasten and Burnout in the Speed pool. Would it become like the pre-inherent Stamina of old? The thing you sacrificed two much less useful power picks to obtain? Or would it's utility with the availability of IO recharge set bonuses and the cost of two of Burnout, Flurry and Superspeed be enough that other power pool picks would start to look more attractive? Because I think a big part of how universally Hasten is regarded in many builds stems from the fact that it takes so little investment to get it. It is literally a single power pick to obtain its benefit... you don't need to suffer through the bad picks in Presence to get to the top tier pick of the pool. You don't have to take one of the weak melee attacks first like you do for Tough and Weave. Its as close to FREE as a pool pick can possibly get in terms of its utility. And if it IS still so good that it's still worth taking two rather subpar powers to get it (see Old School Stamina), then I think that would also argue for just how overpowered it is as a tier-1 pool power pick and that the solution either needs to be; A) make it universal like the Inherent Fitness pool, B) make the swap between Burnout and Hasten permanent, or C) scale back the level of recharge bonus Hasten provides. -
[Beta] Patch Notes for April 5th, 2020
Chris24601 replied to Faultline's topic in [Open Beta] Patch Notes
Regarding the changes to Enhancements effectively dropping TOs and relegating DO's to role of cheaper slotting at the lowest levels, I'd like to make a suggestion; Color-code the Enhancement text using the standard colors to make it easier to see at a glance whether something is a DO or SO and make it easier for new players who are familiar with traditional color coding by rarity to realize that DO's are meant to be inferior to SOs. My suggestion would be that DO's titles would be green (default level -2 colors) while SO's titles would be blue (level -1 color), leaving common IOs as white and the set IOs as yellow, orange and purple. That way when a new player gets a drop they'll see green (traditionally a mid-grade drop in the green, blue, purple, gold hierarchy used by many other games) DOs and blue SOs (a step up for both CoH and the common hierarchy used elsewhere) which plays to the common expectations that a blue is better than a green. Then, by the time they get to IOs they should be familiar enough with CoH's color schemes to judge white, yellow, orange and purple IOs appropriately. -
Oh, I don’t disagree on that. A class without at least a required t1 attack can’t even reliably deal enough damage to deal with a -1/x0 mission. The P2W attacks lack the accuracy and recharge needed to make them a sustainable attack chain leaving you basically Brawl and pool attacks... and if you’re selecting those you may as well have a primary or secondary set with real attacks in it. By contrast, a support/assault (i.e. dominator secondary) based character would be something worth pursuing... though I’d rather see it done by proliferation of dominator secondaries to defenders and corruptors than building another AT. For that matter an Assault/Armor option for Sentinels who want a mix of melee and ranged attacks in addition to reasonable protection would also be an interesting thing to see tried. But doubling up on the same set category, particularly when neither has attacks, seems like a recipe for disaster... akin to someone running a “pure healer” empathy defender with the leadership toggles and only the t1 attack with no slots.
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Regarding “what about the AV at level 20 when you’re poor and badly built?” Leave the mission aside, level up several times running easier content, then come back and curbstomp the grey conning AV. That’s how I finally soloed the Envoy of Shadows on my first toon; a fire blaster; back in the days of i4 and it’s a tactic that works right up to the present day... if you can’t take a 49 EB (minimum difficulty) as a 50+1 anything with a tray of inspirations you’ve got way bigger problems than that.
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Pool Powers for Kheldian Alt Forms?
Chris24601 replied to Project129's topic in Suggestions & Feedback
The fact that “it’s fine if you rely on this one specific pool power and multiple sets of IOs that go for 10mil each and massive amounts of recharge” says it’s not actually fine. Indeed, it’s just another example of how Hasten utterly warps the rest of the game around itself because if a billion inf build with Hasten can fix it; it’s not actually broken according to some people.- 41 replies
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I don’t know that there will be an omega slot; at least on HC. They notably reworked the incarnate screen from live; removing the “coming soon” slots like Omega so that it now lists only alpha, judgement, interface, lore, destiny and hybrid in a pattern that doesn’t suggest any more are coming. Frankly, given the lack of profit motive and smaller dev team, I don’t think increasing the power curve even more would be particularly healthy for the game. Even the live devs in their post-closure AMAs admitted that, had they gone all the way through to Omega, they’d have to shut the whole thing down and launch a CoH2 afterwards because it would have thrown everything so far out of whack. Other than making it even harder to balance high end content (compare the difference between a fresh 50 and a fully t4’d incarnate), there’s no real benefit to adding even more power at the top in. Heck, it’s already stupid easy to solo AVs and monsters with a solidly t3’d incarnate with just the six alpha-hybrid slots.
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In terms of new classes; I’d rather see a stretch of existing concepts instead. So, for example, people have long requested a melee/support (or support/melee) AT, but rather than some completely new AT; what if you made some melee sets (or hybrid melee/ranged sets) for defenders and corruptors that they could choose instead of the existing ranged sets? There’d then be no need to balance an entire new AT and come up with new inherent mechanics; just to balance the melee power set’s performance with the ranged sets for the AT. I got the idea from the realization that one reason a Sentinel feels a bit gimped is that claws or kinetic melee scrappers with the blaze or mu mastery can pull off a competent ranged/armor build with a full ranged attack chain (40’ ranged high damage, 80’ ranged, ranged cone, ranged AoE, ranged hold and either a snipe or ranged immobilize) and a solid AT inherent without having to sacrifice damage like a Sentinel does to get its ranged attacks. It made me wonder if a Sentinel rework shouldn’t just be a slightly variant scrapper in terms of actual numbers and if the Sentinel shouldn’t have really just been some more close range-focused sets for the scrapper (ex. an assault rifle set that included a stock strike and bayonet attack plus build-up and confront, then some 40-60’ ranged attacks including a ranged cone or two). It’s a little late to go back on the Sentinel AT (other than to fix its numbers in relation to the performance of, say, a claws scrapper with thd mu epic), but that doesn’t mean we can’t learn from the experience with the Sentinel and not make the same mistake with other ATs that might not need to be a whole new thing, but just stretching the concept of an existing AT a bit.
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Given that he uses the same facial texture and has a similar occupation (undercover operative for Longbow/Ministry of Intelligence) and level range (15-19 in WWs arc vs. contact handing out missions in thd 8-15 range) I suspect that this is actually the intention. And being named Chance instead of Ace is less strange than the Fusion/Jane Temblor double gender swap that happens in Praetoria. The net result is you’re down to Ashley, her dad Alister and Ace as either her brother or cousin (they mention he’s got certain skills that might actually be very subtle magic) which is much more reasonable... no more tricky than States, Miss and Ms. Liberty anyway.
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I generally do; 1) Main costume: whatever I mostly run around in. 2) Hood-down/Mask-off variant: for when you’re chilling among you fellow heroes but plan to go back on duty. 3) Dress-uniform: the main uniform, but spruced up a bit. Notably, this is the only hero costume I use capes for (The Incredibles had a lasting influence). 4) Street-clothes: what your character would wear to the grocery store. 5) Club-clothes: what your character would wear to Pocket-D 6) Work-clothes: what your character would wear at their day job. 7) Formal-clothes: for guys this is their “burying and marrying” suit. For ladies this is what they’d wear to a high-society event. 8 ) Beach-wear: because someone will hold another beach rave event. 9) Evil-twin: because my hero would NEVER turn villain just to get a patron power pool. It was their evil twin and my hero’s powers just happen to match my evil twin’s (otherwise they wouldn’t be an evil twin). 10) Full-incarnate: brighter and overly elaborate costume parts, cosmic auras, wings of fire... reserved for when I wanna look over the top on an iTrial.
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[Beta] Patch Notes for April 4th, 2020
Chris24601 replied to Faultline's topic in [Open Beta] Patch Notes
I don’t know that it needs a full tutorial, so much as it just needs a note that if you don’t know what to spend merits on; here’s a list (converters, catalysts, boosters) of what sells consistently well at Wentworth’s/the Black Market. I double-checked the invention tutorial and the final stage with the guidance counselor includes reading a Wentworth’s pamphlet that covers which zones it’s found in and that you can buy and sell there and a representative there can walk you through the system. The WW information rep covers bidding, what can be bought/sold, fees and that items on the AH will be lost if you’re inactive for more than 60 days. It doesn’t give you the super-easy slash command, but this is about new players gaining basic functionality, not necessarily super-efficiency. For all its ease, /ah essentially removes one of the communal hubs of the game. Sure all the auras could be annoying, but there was no doubt that the game felt more alive due to the conflux of players. Maybe all that’s actually needed is to put the following on the bottom of the WW pamphlet; ”Enhancement converters, catalysts and boosters are always hot sellers. See your local Merit vendor to acquire some you can sell with us.” True. I hadn’t considered that in my suggestions. Making the IO tutorial contact automatic again and a list of the good sellers though should solve a lot of it. As to finding the P2W vendor. How hard would it be to make them an automatic contact? They’ve already got their short introductory speech and answering various questions. Just make it a super-short mission to speak with them and that’s accomplished. Overall, I approve of the direction. -
[Beta] Patch Notes for April 4th, 2020
Chris24601 replied to Faultline's topic in [Open Beta] Patch Notes
I agree. I think a lot of people are so used to the game that they don’t realize how unintuitive and hidden certain elements of the game are to total newcomers. For example; people mention the IO system tutorial... but if you haven’t noticed there’s no longer a contact or notice or anything that sends a new player TO that tutorial. Left to their own devices a new player would have to happen upon the university interior and then explore to find the starting contact. I’ve become a LOT more aware of this recently precisely because I’ve been introducing my friend to the game for the first time and there is no readily obvious tutorial for either how to spend merits, use the auction house and no “find contact” directing you to the IO system tutorial. All of which are systems being claimed as essential to playing the game. Hell, the game still does a piss poor job at explaining you can add more than one of an enhancement to the same power and what they need to be slotting from the vendor to not make your character basically unplayable. I thank God that I told him to run Outbreak or Breakout first instead of Galaxy City or it would have been even worse. There are some easy things that would definitely help though; - Add dialogue to the level 3 training about the basics of slotting enhancements... the importance of accuracy and endurance reduction and that you can slot more than one of the same type, but that more than 3 of the same will largely be wasted. Even better, add a contact who’s basically just a conversation to convey this information in a more step by step approach instead of being part of a single dialogue window. - Put a couple of Merit Vendors; the kind in a purple/gold suit; out in the Atlas Plaza near the basic enhancement vendors so they’re not hidden away inside City Hall a place you’re currently only sent if you decide to do the Shining Stars arc. - Those who buy converters on the auction house will complain, but add a bright shiny INFLUENCE tab to the list of Merit Vendor options. Don’t hide it under one of the existing categories. Give it a convert 1, 10 and 50 option that gives 200k influence per merit. - Add the IO tutorial back into the automatic contacts as its at least twice as important as the Shining Stars arcs are, and, though it’s been a long time since I’ve done it, I recall it actually being a useful tutorial. - If its not not in it already add a buying/selling on the auction house to the IO tutorial. Also add a section on what converters, boosters and catalysts actual do and that they’re obtained using merits and sell well on the auction house. - Re-add the initial origin contacts to the character’s starting list. It’s not the most exciting new content, but it introduces players to the beginnings of the branching content chains where a contract introduces a couple of additional contacts. Alternately, have Habashy when you see him at the close of Thiery’s arc, introduce you to a standard contact. Right now all the initial contacts you’re given; Habashy through Thiery, Shauna Stockwell/Eagle Eye and Twinshot are all self contained... they never introduce you to anyone outside their particular chain. If you haven’t figured out the find contact button on your own, you’re sorta out of luck. These would go a LONG way towards helping new players navigate the game more effectively. -
[Beta] Patch Notes for April 4th, 2020
Chris24601 replied to Faultline's topic in [Open Beta] Patch Notes
If TO/DO drops are indeed intended to be vendor trash going forward, they really need to either unslottable so a new player doesn’t actually do so -or- more usefully, they need to dropped from the loot tables entirely and drop rate for SOs tweaked so that the vendoring value remains similar. Example (I don’t know the specific rates, but this’ll do); let’s say the current drop rate is 10% chance of a TO (inf x1), 5% for a DO (inf x2) and 2.5% of an SO (inf x4). That’s an average influence value for the drops of 0.1 + 0.1 + 0.1 = x0.3 per mob. The equivalent using only SOs would be a 7.5% chance to drop an SO and you never have to worry about a new player accidentally slotting a TO or DO because it was a drop and they didn’t realize it was supposed to be vendor trash. -
Weekly Discussion 45: Favorite and Least Favorite Story Lines
Chris24601 replied to GM Miss's topic in General Discussion
I’ll second loving the suggestion for a BAB TF to close out the KR content and I think it practically writes itself as a level 10-20 TF. You’ve got Deadlock, Atta and the Lords of Death (for good measure the TW brother should be broken out of prison for the final showdown) as boss fights for each of three missions. So mission one is hitting Deadlock before he can flee Paragon after his attack on BABs; removing him from the board so he can’t hit you from behind. I’m thinking the sewers to Faultline map used at the end of Jim Temblor’s arc would work well. Giving Deadlock some mobility a la Marauder in the Lambda Sector trial so the fight moves from A to B at 75%, B to C at 50% and then back to A at 25%. I’m also thinking air dropping Merc henchmen (at level 10-20 their S/L isn’t quite as gimped) as support when he relocates. Second mission is shutting down Atta, who’s starting buying their supply from the Lords of Death; might be a chance to bring back the Supa’Trolls as part of the mission mechanics. Boulders falling from the ceiling throughout the fight wouldn’t be horrible either. Final mission is assaulting the stronghold of the Lords of Death and take them down once and for all. Perhaps the final battle involving tag-team mechanics; start with two of the three, when one hits 50% they tap out and the third one steps in. Once a second is at 50% the one who taps out returns and all three fight together. Maybe tie in some death ritual the Lords have tied into their version of Superadine; using the life forces of its addicts to fuel a portal to the Netherworld they intend to use to empower themselves or let something they worship out of the Netherworld. -
If it needs a buff, expand the current resistance numbers to all damage types and/or increase them a bit. Done. No need to radically change what it does. It’s simplicity is a part of its charm. I like it because I don’t have to think about it. It’s just there soaking up a little damage and carrying the two resist damage +3% defense procs. Nothing to toggle or worry about a lucky Sapper hit knocking off. It also fits my all natural archer concept better than something that takes endurance to keep on. Also, saying that sustains remove all endurance issues is just incorrect. They help. But unless you’re running super low endurance sets (ex. Archery/Tac Arrow) there’s still additional work needed to mitigate your endurance issues; particularly with high endurance sets and to-hit based recovery mechanics. Sometimes using a passive power like body armor over a toggle that’s pulling 0.21/second is just the better option for some builds.
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Meanwhile, I’m running on the same Win7 machine I was running at shutdown (the registry even still remembered my default settings the first time it booted up). The only difference is that the 64-bit client now lets me run the maximum settings like butter; whereas I had lagginess issues in 32-bit mode without turning the settings down to where I used to keep them. I have zero issues with First/Night Ward and didn’t even realize there was an issue people were having with Kallisti Wharf until I read about it here. Out of curiosity and to seek a pattern; are the people with issues there running the 64 or 32 bit clients? Because I suspect the issue might be that the 32-bit version just can’t handle the load while the 64-bit architecture allows more threads at a time and so can take it.
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Regarding “permanent” Holloween; would it be possible to rig the event so that Trick-or-Treating was possible in every zone, but only during the times when it’s natural night (i.e. leave the day/night cycle on... trick or treat runs from sundown to sunrise... sorta like that certain hunt for Vampyri on Striga Island)? That would avoid the hated 30-days of night (after last October, I now appreciate how the live devs limited it to a couple of weeks) while still enabling trick or treating in all zones.
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Make alternative IO sets to Luck of the Gambler
Chris24601 replied to nyttyn's topic in Suggestions & Feedback
My opinion? 1) Make Hasten’s recharge timer immune to all buffs and enhancements. 2) give the LotG recharge buff the same name as the other +7.5% recharge buffs. 3) ??? 4) Profit! Alternately... reduce all recharge timers by a third, then remove Hasten from the game. Option 3... make Hasten an Auto power in line with the various “reaction time” powers found in certain powersets (ex. Tac arrow or Night Widow training); ie. +20% recharge, +X% run speed. This would actually be in line with the philosophy of pool powers not exceeding the capacity of primary/secondary set powers that do similar things. ~~~~~~ The thing is... once the carrot of making the horribly overpowered Hasten permanent becomes impossible, a lot of the meta for pushing the +recharge you need to achieve permanent Hasten will melt away. That said; I suspect 90% of the playbase wouldn’t even notice because they aren’t optimization-builders who tweak their pre-planned builds on Pines to eke out every ounce of recharge in pursuit of some platonic ideal of recharge. Honestly, I suspect if the devs just removed recharge from the t1 attacks so it could spammed to the limits of endurance; roughly half the playerbase would just spam that attack and be done with it. -
Weekly Discussion 45: Favorite and Least Favorite Story Lines
Chris24601 replied to GM Miss's topic in General Discussion
The film was #45 the year it was released; falling behind the Parent Trap remake (44) and the widely panned Matthew Brodderick Godzilla (43). It likely only got that high off its reputation for some very steamy sex scenes (relative to what else was available with an R rating at the time). Also, as a caveat, all the people killed and framed in the film were actually co-conspirators... which puts their deaths more into the “just desserts” category than my example (innocent wife and intern killed). I think It almost proves my point; the number of stories that can successfully pull off “the unrepentant villain gets away with it” is vanishingly small. By contrast, heist and similar films where the criminals are sympathetic and the target is deserving of a comeuppance are reasonably common. In CoV terms, a story where you work with some Scrapyarders to rob Cage Consortium and everyone walks away with a share (even if your own share is “most of it”) is one I suspect would be broadly popular. It should be noted that the popular Dean and Leonard arcs mostly involve stealing from the Nazis/5th Column... the epitome of “acceptable targets.” Bane Spider Reuben; another popular red-side arc; involves Longbow using mind control on villains to try and take over the Rogue Isles and ends with you setting the villains loose on a roaring rampage of revenge against those who used them. I think the biggest mistake made in terms of setting up City of Villains to capture a larger portion of the market was to not realize the difference between villains as they appear in superhero stories (often unrepentant complete monsters) with how villains are portrayed when given their own titles/mini-series (nuanced with better justifications for their actions against more acceptable targets). The best CoV content captures the villain as protagonist of their own story. The worst has them act as complete monsters for no reason other than “for the evulz.” The worst of the worst is where it isn’t even your own plan... you’re just the hired thug of some guy doing it “for the evulz.” Frankly, Westin Phipps is the sorta worst of the worst scumbag a traditional “villain as protagonist” story would use as its antagonist; the guy who’s so much worse than you that when you burn down his house, steal his ill-gotten gains for yourself and organize the homeless to beat him to death in the street you STILL look like a good guy administering some brand of justice despite having just committed arson, grand theat and conspiracy to commit first degree murder. Instead CoV has you work FOR him and do his dirty work ruining other people’s lives just because he gets off on crushing the hopes and dreams of others. And the original devs wondered why redside never took off? Side-bar: If there was ever a Rogue mission put in that let you do that to Westin Phipps, half my heroes would go rogue just to play it. I rarely experience such a level of vitriolic hatred for a fictional character... but that man seriously needs to die in a manner where he gets to realize that all his work crushing hopes is being undone... like a post-script where it’s revealed that his brain and eyes were saved and he is forced to watch unblinking from a secret compartment as acts of mercy and kindness improve the lives of those he’s hurt. -
Weekly Discussion 45: Favorite and Least Favorite Story Lines
Chris24601 replied to GM Miss's topic in General Discussion
One of the things that REALLY shows in a lot of the last year of live content was the shift of focus from “story arc as story” to “story arc as advertising.” You all know what I’m talking about; story arcs where whole sections are centered on an overbuffed mob (sometimes even a boss when you have bosses turned off) who gets to show off one of the power sets or costumes that could only be accessed by spending real money/Paragon Points. Regardless of what you thought the theme of those arcs was, their actual message was painfully transparent; “Look how tough it was to take on the guy with Staff-Fighting/Titan Weapons/Beam Rifle... you could have this power too, for the right price.” In retrospect, it’s just NOT a pretty look. Some, like the Laura Lockhart arc (particularly with the Oroboros chaser) are good enough on their own to overcome it. Others, particularly the “Justice Hammers” and “Void Sanction” arcs need a complete revamp to add some real personality and depth to them (in those two cases though I am willing to chalk some of it up to it being beta content SCoRE pushed live “as is” and so, had it not been shuttered would have been better developed so that each mission wasn’t six repetitions of “meet X, then defeat Y with overpowered version of featured powerset Z.”). * * * * I’m not really going to discuss Blueside much just because it IS so much easier to write for. As reactive forces the specifics of a heroes’ inner life and motives aren’t as relevant to mission design. To quote Batman Begins, “It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me.” The only two points I’ll mention about Blueside are; A) Vigilante tip missions require way too much idiotball holding. You are always either massively overreacting to or outright ignoring evil schemes in order to rack up a body count. Vigilante tips are so bad that even Arrow in season one (i.e. the season that practically defines vigilante and didn’t shy away from the negative aspects) would have to choose the hero tips because even though his focus was putting down bad guys permanently, he didn’t endanger innocents to do it. B) Each of the Twinshot/Graves tutorial arcs need to be dropped by 5 levels and made intro contacts alongside the post Galaxy ones. Twinshot’s arc could use a little dialogue cleanup and perhaps a little more obvious reference to its various members not just representing certain power origins, but also lampooning particular PLAYER types common at the time (ex. Grym is that tabletop RPG player who rolled up his toon from that game on Virtue and always speaks in character... Vampire LARPers were a HUGE part of the Virtue RP scene back in the day). Their dialogue and certain actions are a lot more bearable when you can recognize what they’re meant to parody. Grave’s arc just needs any reference to your interior motivations scrubbed. The fact that you are a complete newbie level 1 villain and therefore unknown and underestimated takes care of a lot of the other problems, though a few scare quotes to indicate your character understands more than they’re letting on at times (ex. using ‘mind bomb’ instead of mind bomb implies you suspect what’s really going on but have decided to play along for your own reasons... you may act the dolt, as you do with the arbiters who talk to you about leveling up, but ‘act’ is the operative word). * * * * Now to Redside. The worst missions for me are redside arcs that don’t give sufficient clues to the need for really heinous villainy to complete them or lack means of otherwise undermining said villainy by deliberate failure (ex. Kelly Uqua’s final mission). I’ll play a rogue. Longbow’s just shady enough in its methods I can send them on a trip through the mediporter system pretty guilt free, but I preferred the days of invulnerable civilians on Mayhem Missions (which means it actually takes work to avoid civilian casualties if you’re playing in the rogue-ish “tries to avoid unnecessary violence” style). I can’t stomach the outright villainous though so I HATE it when I only discover the arc is going to require more than robbing some rich person/organization of their money/doodad AFTER that little book has locked you into the mission chain. Someone previously mentioned attaching the Rogue and Villain alignment terms to various contacts based one what they have you do. I wholeheartedly approve of this. In that vein, I’d also like to see a tweak to the Lt. Harris arc that closes out the revamped Mercy Island content. It requires just a little too much idiotball holding to not have figured out what’s really going on with him before the final mission even begins and being forced to side against a woman being revenge stalked and murdered by a psychopath is too dark for even a lot of villains (and pretty much anyone who’s planning to go Rogue at the earliest opportunity). So an option to instead fight Lt. Harris instead and then send the wounded Lt. Page and the rest of Longbow packing (“Mission Accomplished for Arachnos. Does it really matter HOW I did it?”) would be GREATLY appreciated. In terms of top-notch missions I think redside the Dean and Leonard clone arcs are some of my favorites simply because they don’t presume a particular motivation and also because there’s a real degree of choice involved in how it ends up. I remembered liking them on live, but started to cringe when the “kidnap scientists” mission came up as to whether I’d just remembered it wrong. I the actually stopped and breathed a sigh of relief when the first scientist I reached responded with “Ooh, a science project! I want in!” Willing minions work regardless of your particular level of misanthropy so it was an excellent choice to allow maximum possible character motivation interpretation. Then there’s your choices of what to do about your clone (whether to save them at all, whether to let them go live their own life... with options ranging from sadistic to selfish to almost heroic) and whether or not to actually rob bank (admittedly it’s funnier if you DO, but that doesn’t fit every concept) that made it feel like it was your choice throughout. I also want to give high marks to the HC exclusive Rogue arc for its multiple paths and outcomes and, depending on how you play it you can range from a misanthrope to a gentleman thief (up to and including that you can “beat” the main threat by paying attention to a few clues and then striking a win-win deal with them). It is often remarked that Redside is vastly less populated than Blueside and the default solution I’ve always heard echoed is “create more truly villainous content.” My comment there is that that’s a load of bunk. There’s a simple fact of storytelling that they teach everyone going into Screenwriting 101... and that’s that 90% of mankind only enjoys classic plot structure (this is not to discourage other types of plot structure, but to teach you to manage expectations and budgets accordingly). Outright unrepentant villainous motivations alienate general audiences. Hurting others because you enjoy tormenting them is seen as sick. The hard villainous content that is asked for holds appeal to only that small 10% who flies in the face of classic plots because one of the hallmarks of classic plot is “protagonists generally get what they deserve.” Imagine a movie where we follow a senator who plots his wife’s murder, frames his intern for it and the movie ends with his intern’s execution for the crime while the senator sips martinis with the mistress he’d been cheating on his wife with and is adored by the public for having the strength to carry on after the betrayal of his intern and the tragic murder of his wife. That’s a CoV Villainous arc in a nutshell. You do horrible things for wicked reasons, often to those weaker than yourself and are rewarded for it. The end. It takes classical construction and turns it on it’s head. A movie with that plot would also flop outside of the indie film scene. By contrast, successful films with villain protagonists; ex. Ocean’s 11, John Wyck, Deadpool; set the villain up as having relatable motivations (ex. revenge, crushing debt, saving a loved one directly or indirectly) for their actions and those actions are directed at someone more powerful and/or more wicked (ex. the ones who wronged him, some faceless institution seen as screwing over little guys in general; multi-national corporations/banks and governments being common legitimate targets) such that the target being hurt feels like its earned that hurt as payback. One reason the Dean and Leonard arcs work really well in this regard is they set up a similar dynamic. It stats with a relatable motivation; make some cash on a basic jewelry heist and trying to knock a rampaging superhero down a peg. Only you run into a double of yourself who’s already committed the robbery and the hero actually IS indestructible. You now have very personal motivations... you’re going to be blamed and you don’t even get the money for it (more wicked) and you still need to knock the invulnerable guy down a peg (more powerful). Dean gets more sympathetic when you learn how the system in Paragon wronged him and his family. The clone angle leads to punching literal nazis to gain a cloning facility for yourself. You eventually work out a solution to knock the invulnerable hero out of the picture and make everyone’s life easier. The Leonard half of the arc gives you a Big Bad in Protean who wrecks your original plans (whatever they might be) for the cloning facility, a chance to be a little heroic or not in rescuing your clone. Twist the knife on the guy who wrecked things, possibly settle things with your clone... oh, and possibly finally getting around to robbing a place because comedic sociopathy is always an option. You’re rewarded for your efforts that punished someone more wicked and the scales of karma feel properly weighed to most people. The point is... the good villain content doesn’t just set a crime in motion, it sets up WHY the target deserves what it gets (and therefore why you deserve to profit from it). -
An option to reduce visual clutter
Chris24601 replied to ShardWarrior's topic in Suggestions & Feedback
That’s why that first line I posted is important; /suppressclosefxdist 300 The trick is that, by default, the distance is set to 0 and is based on camera distance from your avatar. So by default suppression will only occur when you’re in first person mode (i.e. camera distance 0). Setting it to 300 allows you to scroll way out without passing the suppression distance (300 units in this case). As long as your camera is closer than the distance all power auras on you, regardless of source, will not be rendered. The in game reason for this feature was to have a way to shut off effects that would make first-person perspective problematic. If there’s still too much going on, the graphics slider you need to turn down is the particle count (under advanced graphics settings); you shouldn’t have to set everything to minumum. -
An option to reduce visual clutter
Chris24601 replied to ShardWarrior's topic in Suggestions & Feedback
The following takes care of what you're looking for; /suppressCloseFxDist 300 /bind [key A] /suppressCloseFx 1 /bind [key B] /suppressCloseFx 0 Hit key A to turn off all effects centered on your character and key B to turn them back on. I use it all the time for hurricane and similar effects I like to keep on, but find the graphics distracting.