Sura

Even if my Scrapper with Provoke does the exact same thing? If that Scrapper's mindset is to hold aggro to keep their team safe, and damage is not a priority, then yes (though they're going to have a MUCH harder time doing so compared to a tank). But I think most players that want to do something like that are playing Tankers, and Scrappers' mindset tends to be about defeating stuff (damage). Does that make sense? I should add that I think Tankers should be looked at, but I do think they have a place. If it were me I'd start by taking crashes out of T9 Tanker powers and replacing Hibernate with something that's not inimical to a Tanker's role.

For me it's all about mindset. I like playing Tankers because my mindset is what I would consider "Tanker" appropriate: I want to be out there protecting my team and holding aggro. It's not about defeating crowds of foes, it's about being so buried in live foes attacking me that I'm not visible, and dealing with that crowd's damage so my team doesn't have to. That's what makes me feel powerful. There's not another AT that has that same mindset. Some are similar in being "unselfish", like defenders, controllers, and dominators, but most I think are simply damage oriented. In a way I think Tankers are actually the opposite of obsolete due to this: there are many AT's that bring damage to a team, some that bring buffs/debuffs, some that bring controls. But there's only one whose purpose and mindset is to effectively and efficiently draw aggro to help keep the team moving forward, and that's the Tanker.

Maybe the two effect suppression options would help? I used to use these on live for my Ice Tanker. https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/SuppressCloseFx_(Slash_Command) https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/SuppressCloseFxDist_(Slash_Command) I think they can wind up hiding weapons, but figured I'd throw them out as a suggestion.

My Ice/Elec is 50+1, I'll do my best to be there for the MSR.

Dang. The first GenCon I'm missing in years, the first Critical Role GenCon live show I'm missing, and now this. Argh.

Thanks, I'll give it a shot! Double click is fine, I should have thought of that. I just kept thinking I was missing a single push solution.

Is there a macro to target the Bruiser and cast Noxious Gas on him? Thanks!

If you choose Rogue or Vigilante you can join any TF/SF, use the market on both sides, team on both sides, and do newspapers/radios on both sides. The only real limitations are on starting TF/SF's and that you have to be in the same zone as the group you're joining if it's on the "opposite" side as your association. For example, Vigilantes are associated with heroes, so if they're going to join a villain group they have to be in the same zone as the group.

Like I posted in the other thread; I play Vigilante and spend my time on the blue side (I like hero side better), but Vigilante allows me to cruise on over to red side and group without worrying about swapping alignments. If the good opportunities are red side, I grab them. If they're blue side, I grab them. Vigilante and Rogue alignments allow players to play on both sides without changing alignments.

Update on this... My Ice/Electric Tanker has hit 50, and it's been a fun ride. No real barriers other than one brain dead day when I decided to try and tank Carnies and kept de-toggling myself with the Flying Carpet. Ugh. For the most part I lead with Lightning Rod, then go to Energy Absorption. This means I've pulled a bunch of +DEF and also drained most of what's around me's endurance. I then have Ball Lightning, Electrical Fences, Chain Induction, and Thunder Strike as draining (and taunting) AoE's to follow, and Lightning Clap to add some more nifty possible knockdown and disorient. I can't recommend Electric as a Tanker secondary enough, it feels powerful and has good AoE. It's difficult, maybe impossible, to tell what END Drain is lending to my damage mitigation. It's doing something for sure. Storm Shamen can lose their Hurricane, Paragon Protectors can't pop that final power of theirs, that kind of stuff. I'd test more if I could think of a way to do so. Ultimately it's not hurting me, and it's all incidental; I'd be doing the same things even if I wasn't trying to drain. I'm trying to figure out some low level incarnate stuff now. It looks like in the Alpha Slot I can do Agility, which not only works with my Defense (eventually) but starts out by adding END MOD to all of my powers that can take it, is that right? Or Musculature, as Giga says. Anyway, really glad I tried this out, it's been a great time thus far!

It's AoE but it has a to-hit roll associated with it. I had it for a bit and then needed the power slot for something else so I respecced out of it.

Last I saw the next Tanker Tuesday may include some all Tanker TF's. :)

... I hadn't thought of that .... that's a damned fine idea, especially for my Villains (it's a challenge to find teams redside ...) ...! So, question: if a Villain goes Rogue, and does (for example) the Synapse TF ... what badge does he get, if any? :) The way I understand it, for purposes of badges a Rogue counts as a villain and a Vigilante counts as a hero. I can't recommend the Vigilante/Rogue alignments enough. They open up so much content and so many grouping possibilities. I don't think many people really know/remember about them and the possibilities they offer.

I haven't tested this, but if you change morality after changing morality, do you lose the original morality power? I believe so. You get the power seven days after confirming an alignment I think, but if you change to a different alignment you lose the power. Using Null will warn you about this. After 20 I think you should always have the possibility of getting a Tip mission, I don't think they shut off. If you're a hero you will have the choice between running an available Tip mission as a Hero or as a Vigilante. Completing the mission will move you one step toward attaining a new alignment or confirming an existing alignment. After you fill up an alignment bar (ten missions as that alignment) the next Tip mission to drop will be an Alignment mission, and completing that will net you 40 Merits and change or confirm your alignment. I love being Vigilante/Rogue. I can watch the LFG channel and join in groups or Task/Strike Forces on either side.

I'm still fuzzy on how that whole system worked, but it sounds like a good idea to me. So if I set my toons as Vig, do I show up on local map searches ("Search For Players" option under the team tab) for whatever side I happen to be on? How about on the other side? I'm not sure about "Search for Players", I just watch the LFG channel and jump in when I see something that looks good, red or blue side. "A Vigilante will have hero-content mission contacts and access to the hero version of the Ouroboros zone. However, Vigilantes may also move to the Rogue Isles via Cooperative Zones or by using Submariner Janus's submarine. While in the Rogue Isles, a Vigilante can team with Villains and Rogues to do villain-side content, start and engage in Strike Forces, visit the Black Market, and perform Newspaper Missions and Mayhem missions." https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Vigilante_(Alignment) Essentially you can do pretty much everything without changing your alignment. Which is nice when you're actively doing Tips for Merits. When you use Null to change alignments all your Tips progress and any alignment powers you have are lost. I love doing alignment Tip missions, I think they're a little deeper and well done; so not losing progress is something that appeals to me. And from an inspiration standpoint there's a TON of Marvel/D.C./Other characters that would fit into Vigilante/Rogue alignments IMO that I can draw upon. I feel like not many people pay attention to the Vigilante/Rogue alignments and what they can bring to the game, and if more people knew about the possibilities then red side might see more action.

I run almost all my blueside characters as Vigilantes, and if LFG comes up with a good redside offer I just tool on over to the Isles and join up with those villains to run some missions. Works out great, and there's no Null shenanigans. I had to swap to Rogue to get my Villain Epics, but then I went right back to Vigilante when done. I'm not totally sure why more people don't align Rogue/Vigilante.

I'd try like heck to make it (Ice/Elec). I'm 48 I think now, so 50's within reach. Not sure how much beyond 50 I might be at that point though. Are you thinking that last Tuesday?

What Epic Pools are people using? I've been doing Mu Mastery, and I really like Electric Fences, but EF takes away knockdown, which kind of sucks. Mu fits more with my concept, but in looking in the planner I'm wondering if maybe I should think about going for Darkest Night in Soul Mastery. Would Darkest Night be a good addition? Anyone with thoughts or recommendations for Epic Pools? Mine is an Ice/Elec Tanker. Thanks!

At least part of the conversation had to do with no great reason to have two Tankers on the same team, so I think for that we're assuming non-solo. Gotta say, I teamed with a Brute today that might as well have been a tank, except he was dishing out damage on top of grabbing aggro and taking hits (I was playing a Corruptor). I suspect for a very large percentage of the game a Brute is a much better choice than a Tanker, which is bumming me out.

Turn Hibernate into a damaging Glacier? Shorten the duration while still providing a full or near-full heal/recovery. Make it a giant "pause" button. I've always thought it'd be cool to put in some kind of Ricochet, so you pop the T9 Ice power, it encases you in ice, and any damage aimed at you is partially negated and partially directed back to its source. In fact I've always thought that should be Ice's "spin": the ability to turn some damage back on its source. I have no idea whether that's possible, but I think it would work well as a defining characteristic for the set. I like all of those ideas. And I agree that the T9's would be more like icing on the cake than a pure fix, but I do think improving them would help. Especially if you left the Brute T9's alone. For the larger issue though I still think (agree with you) that maybe the most compelling question is how to get Tankers to cooperatively and effectively coexist in groups. I feel like examining that issue could really shed light on where Tankers could go.

I wonder if examining and changing (possibly) the T9 powers could be a one stop shop for improving Tankers. As it is, in the T9 powers you have: Powers that Buff and Crash You - Electric Armor - Invulnerability - Shield - SR - Willpower - Energy Armor Powers that Rez You - Dark Armor - Fire Armor Powers that Buff You - Bio Armor - Radiation Armor - Regeneration - Stone Armor (not sure about this one, but I'd consider it a buff) Other - Ice Armor (Hibernate seems way too selfish to be a Tanker power IMO; it's completely self centered and counter to the Tanker role) What ideas could we come up with to change those T9's to improve Tankers? What if Brute T9's didn't change (so they crash for a lot of things) but Tanker T9's did? Maybe Tanker T9's should normalize away from crashes? Maybe they should (as proposed earlier) have some sort of offensive component? As a Tanker especially I'd always be leery of taking and using a power with a crash; shouldn't the T9 be something you cheer when you get it? Other than some of the Blaster nukes, I can't think of other AT's where the primary T9 is something you're hesitant to use. And the Blaster nukes could kind of be considered the ultimate expression of Blasterness, where most of the Tanker T9's aren't very Tankery (IMO of course). Anything with a crash, or which requires you to faceplant to use it, and Hibernate, seem un-Tankery. Thoughts?

The in game message said specifically no patch, I'm pretty sure.

I ran in a group with Ice/Spines tanker a couple weeks ago. Worked pretty well since we both had Energy Absorption. He'd lead into the next group and I'd follow and we'd both EA to drain everything. I don't think he had quite gotten to the Spines damage aura yet, if I remember correctly, but he was thinking that'd be just another aggro lock down on top of Ice's already formidable aggro retention. It seemed to be working well for him.

These costumes were things I looked for right away. I used to run as a Ring Mistress all the time, with my actual costume being a civilian alter ego. I was surprised they weren't on the P2W Vendor, they seem a natural fit.

I think Ice does things in a weird and more difficult to quantify way than almost all the other sets. It has DEF for sure, and crazy cold resist, but Chilling Embrace (in addition to being a taunt aura and a movement slow) also slaps a 30+% recharge penalty on nearby foes, and that translates into fewer attacks levied, and less damage taken by the Icer. I'm sure there's a way to mathematically quantify that, but I have no idea how. Energy Absorption not only fills up your stamina, it drains the foes, and gives you Defense for every foe hit. Again, that's not something that's going to show up well in a hero planner, but considering how you're right in the middle of everything as a Tank, there's every possibility you're going to be pulling 10 or more % DEF when you fire off EA. If you fire off EA twice in a battle you've AoE drained all the end out of almost everything below an Elite Boss, another difficult thing to figure into a measure of effectiveness. I've pretty much only played Ice, so I'm not in a good place to compare with other sets. I think of Ice as being kind of non-traditional in how it approaches tanking, and wanted to express that. Attacks taking 30% longer to recharge should translate into a 1/1.3=77% rate of damage, or effectively reducing incoming damage by 23. Neat! Thanks! So that would be kind of like having 23% resist to all incoming damage from sources affected by the slow?