Peacemoon

Yeah Gadget Control with Malta Group type controls has been suggested a lot. I made this exact comment that control sets are very magic/mutant themed, other than gravity and maybe mind!

I had an Earth/earth on live, only got into the 30s and either before IOs or with only basics. He was a blast, and I loved the UMPH. I keep thinking I might have to redo him!

I keep thinking you could just add the melee sets to Defenders and Corrupters, for them to choose alongside the blasts. Aslong as the damage numbers were the same, it might be fun. I don't think you need a new AT for that. I mean, my Rad Defender can go toe to toe with any boss thanks to debuffs, and there are lots of examples of that. Its trickier than ranged blasting but would be doable and fun.

If I could make one change to Storm it would be to make o2 a PBAoE heal. Maybe with some twist like Time, but allows it to heal the user. I noticed there was an AoE o2 ingame for mobs, level 50 banished pantheon I believe? As for Gale it’s awesome. It’s a large cone guaranteed knockback. Slot it for knockdown if you want, but the 100% chance to knock is great and highly effective soft control - which storm is great at.

I think -defence is of questionable benefit, since often accuracy is not an issue. Which is why I rarely enhance it and just take whatever is given as bonus. It’s reasonable at low levels or against high level mobs though. -hit is absolutely useful though, both solo and in teams. You have to remember there is a wide variety of players in this game, and an even wider power level between characters. Not everyone will be defence capped or even close, so -hit is always useful as a reverse defence buff. I tend to go on theme and the actual powers themselves, I.e cones or PBAoE focus, and like to focus on blasting to kill rather than to debuff. I’m not a fan of sonic because I just hate the idea of screaming at someone to defeat them! Maybe if you could put their powers into a rifle or something...

It’s an interesting idea and you could make a good case for your suggestion (which probably should go to the suggestions forum). Personally I think there is some value behind classifying travel powers as a normal power, and if you want to skip a travel power you get an extra slot, or you can delay it. More natural characters can gain an extra power if you want to get creative with how they travel! But just my opinion.

I’m a big fan of Earth Control and think the hard controls or Earth pair wonderfully with the soft controls and chaotic damage and debuffing of Storm, both thematically and in play style. I’m not so sure about it’s solo capabilities though.

Well I’ll start with Dark/Dark/Soul controller. Absolutely amazing amounts of control, buffs, debuffs and good damage. Thematically it all fits together well, but gameplay wise especially: You have lots of PBAoE, Heart of Darkness (stun), Soul Absorption (PBAoE that gives +regen/recovery to all allies nearby for every enemy or enemy corpse hit), Soul Drain (+damage/tohit, but just for you) for every enemy hit. Also goes nicely with the void judgement power which is also PBAoE. With soul absorption you easily cap regen and recovery on just 7 mobs. Fade, PBAoE buff will give you good defence and resists, which helps a lot reaching the caps. Shadowfall also helps and can be layered on top, and gives you stealthed for getting close undetected. That coupled with the massive amounts of -hit, and all set bonuses, means mobs rarely hurt you, and when they rarely do your regen covers i. Your heal is PBAoE so it helps to be amongst the action. You have some good AoE’s in the form of location hold, Howling Twilight (-500% regen) and Soul Obliteration. So many pets you are basically a mastermind. 2 haunts (made perma with final build), wolfie and dark servant. The dark control pets help with killing and the servant assists you with debuffs. All together you can jump into a +3/8 spawn and completely lock them down, suck out everything good about their souls for your own power, and obliterate them with blasts, pets and if needed, the nuke. You then take all those lovely bonuses and jump into the next spawn and refresh! So what are the negatives? I always like to give a balanced review. Well, Single target damage can be lacking against tough targets, bosses but especially EBs and AVs. You can do good AoE damage with the above skills, particularly if you slot things like the purple damage PBAoE proc in Heart of Darkness, but it’s a struggle to focus down the tough targets. Particularly since pets like to do their own thing and aren’t focused. (Haunts sort of are on initial cast, but they’re only minor pets). I mean it’s not too bad, but you’ll often find bosses and the like can take as long to finish off as it took to decimate the entire rest of the spawn, which can be frustrating. It has amazing buffs and drains, but they don’t last long. Fade and Haunt pets last 60 seconds so constantly require recasting. If you rely on Fade for defence it can leave you vulnerable if you forget to put it back on. Soul Absorption will give you unlimited end and regen, but lasts only 45s with a 3s cast. Basically, it’s nothing too bad but you can easily spend a good portion of your time maintaining buffs and pets unfortunately! I find it quite fun that beneath all my powers/spells there is actually a very squishy caster! It keeps you on your toes too. Pets - love them or loathe them, they can be a great help and a great hindrance. On paper they always work better than in reality. Wolfie likes to play fetch with a fleeing mob, and will often fetch back an entire spawn (he doesn’t respond to his name no matter how much I’ve tried to train him) Which is nothing you can’t handle, and you can choose to intercept the spawn or wait for them to enter the Tar-Patch-Of-Death, where they will join their comrades. Unfortunately though mobs aggroed in this way usually wipe out your minions and they will require resummoning. Wolfie is also very aggressive protective and will often leap into the fray and promptly die before you can cast your first lockdown. The Dark Servant is prone to EPIC 2 MINUTE BATTLES against a single minion on the outskirts of combat. Since he is full support, it is a battle that will rage in for all eternity, unless you intervene by killing off the minion, or slap him with a resummon into the middle of the group. Incidentally he works best in amongst the enemy group, as his Chill of the Night PBAoE aura debuff is another amazing layer of -hit. Haunts are actually very buggy. Once they’ve killed their focused target and you’ve finished off the spawn and moving on to the next, they often get stuck and will spend their final moments stuck in a back and forth loop. Fortunately in a way, they don’t last long so are often about to expire anyway when this happens. Once you start fighting +3s/+4s all the pets become ultra squishy, even with all the buffs you can muster. Anything that isn’t locked down or substantially debuffed will destroy them. On the flip side Dark/Dark brings great debuffs, -regen as discussed, -res from tar patch, so much -hit its unreal (especially combined with Servant’s natural PBAoE aura, chill of the night, and his own version of darkest night layered on yours), and lots of - damage. Pets might be squishy in chaotic fights, but with all your debuffs in play even Wolfie can tank +3 AVs. Speaking of AVs, Dark/Dark definitely can solo AVs. A +3 AV can take 5-10 minutes to kill, which I’m not sure how good or bad that is, but eventually they give up trying to hit you and you win! I have soloed the Pandora’s Box SSA at +3/8 and with AVs. I could do +4 technically, but the slower kill speed means it’s less rewarding than +3 for me. Anyway, hope that’s a good write up! I love my Dark/Dark/Soul Controller. Made just from concept ideas and unexpectedly realised how powerful he had become.

Everybody's pets are looking far happier and.. maneuverable!

Thanks guys, I came into this thread to help out and learned something myself. Yay 😃

Haven't actually built this character yet, its purely theoretical and would probably have one or two minor revisions, but the basic concept is sound (at least for me!) For cost probably not too much - if you dropped the epics from Total Focus and Single Shot which aren't needed, and buy the ATOs with Merits (would cost 900 merits, could buy a few), then probably around 100 million? Very rough estimate as I tend to sell/buy as I level and get help from my level 50 where needed.

Warning its not cheap - sort of an end target build to aim for. Although minus Total Focus and an Apolocalypse pure damage in single shot just for fun, the epics are all ATOs with catalysts. The build has soft capped defences against range, and capped resist against smashing and lethal. I've not put as many procs in this build as I could as preferred to go for set bonus, particularly +range and +res. With the alpha most attacks have a 116 yard range! Range helps a lot for cutting beam too. I dropped repulsion bomb in the end as just wasn't happy with it, and it took too many slots for not much damage (in my opinion). The build is missing Hasten, but its not a very recharge intense build. However you could easily drop some leadership for it. It also didn't get medicine which is a shame for low levels and aid self, which would have been fun and fit the 'tech' theme I had in my head. Definitely more tweaking I could do with this to bump up the non-lethal/smashing resistances, and try squeeze in some medicine. Teleport of course is switchable to any other travel. The end management is slightly concerning, particularly at low levels without enhancements. That is why I have Red Fortune in Dispersion Bubble as it does -97% end redux. This is a purely theoretical build at the moment as haven't taken it for a spin 🙂 Of course it goes without saying that Deflection Shield and Insulation Shield do 38.74% defence with Power Build Up... so you have four minutes to focus on shooting stuff. And if someone should die, there is vengeance. But this seems unlikely, and so might be a good place for a chop - even though the numbers with Power Build Up are amusing! Enjoy Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! ForceFields: Level 50 Science Defender Primary Power Set: Force Field Secondary Power Set: Beam Rifle Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Teleportation Power Pool: Fighting Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Deflection Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(3), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(3), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(5), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5), RedFrt-Def(11) Level 1: Single Shot -- Apc-Dmg(A) Level 2: Personal Force Field -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 4: Cutting Beam -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), Bmbdmt-Dam(27), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(27), PstBls-Dam%(33), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(33), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(50) Level 6: Insulation Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(7), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(7), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(9), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(9), RedFrt-Def(11) Level 8: Maneuvers -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-ResDam%(17), Rct-Def/EndRdx(19), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(19), Rct-Def/Rchg(21), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21) Level 10: Disintegrate -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(34), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(37) Level 12: Dispersion Bubble -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(13), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(13), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(15), RedFrt-Def(15), RedFrt-EndRdx(17) Level 14: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(37), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(37), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(40), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(42), GssSynFr--Build%(42) Level 16: Teleport -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A) Level 18: Victory Rush -- EndMod-I(A) Level 20: Lancer Shot -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(23), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(33) Level 22: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 24: Aim -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25) Level 26: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 28: Penetrating Ray -- StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(A), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(29), StnoftheM-Dmg/ActRdx/Rchg(29), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), StnoftheM-Dam%(31), StnoftheM-Acc/ActRdx/Rng(31) Level 30: Boxing -- Acc-I(A) Level 32: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(34), GldArm-End/Res(48) Level 35: Power Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36) Level 38: Overcharge -- Bmbdmt-Dam(A), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(39), Bmbdmt-Dam/Rech(39), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech/End(39), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(40), Bmbdmt-Acc/Rech/End(40) Level 41: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(42), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(43), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(43), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43), RedFrt-EndRdx(45) Level 44: Piercing Beam -- Bmbdmt-Dam(A), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(45), Bmbdmt-Dam/Rech(45), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech/End(46), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(46), Bmbdmt-Acc/Rech/End(46) Level 47: Temp Invulnerability -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(48), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(48) Level 49: Total Focus -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dam%(50), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(50) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Quick Form Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A) Level 1: Vigilance Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A) Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A) Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A) Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A) Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon Level 50: Diamagnetic Radial Flawless Interface Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment ------------ ------------ Set Bonus Totals: 17.5% DamageBuff(Smashing) 17.5% DamageBuff(Lethal) 17.5% DamageBuff(Fire) 17.5% DamageBuff(Cold) 17.5% DamageBuff(Energy) 17.5% DamageBuff(Negative) 17.5% DamageBuff(Toxic) 17.5% DamageBuff(Psionic) 7.25% Defense(Smashing) 7.25% Defense(Lethal) 7.25% Defense(Fire) 7.25% Defense(Cold) 12.25% Defense(Energy) 12.25% Defense(Negative) 6% Defense(Psionic) 8.5% Defense(Melee) 18.5% Defense(Ranged) 8.5% Defense(AoE) 3.6% Max End 29% Enhancement(Accuracy) 25% Enhancement(Range) 8% Enhancement(Heal) 6.25% Enhancement(Max EnduranceDiscount) 103.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime) 7.5% SpeedFlying 145 HP (14.25%) HitPoints 7.5% JumpHeight 7.5% SpeedJumping Knockback (Mag -4) Knockup (Mag -4) MezResist(Confused) 75% MezResist(Held) 75% MezResist(Immobilized) 75% MezResist(Sleep) 75% MezResist(Stunned) 75% MezResist(Terrorized) 75% MezResist(Teleport) 100% (20% chance) 11.5% (0.19 End/sec) Recovery 12% (0.51 HP/sec) Regeneration 15% Resistance(Smashing) 15% Resistance(Lethal) 20.25% Resistance(Fire) 20.25% Resistance(Cold) 14.25% Resistance(Energy) 14.25% Resistance(Negative) 7.5% Resistance(Toxic) 7.5% Resistance(Psionic) 7.5% SpeedRunning

I think my first post really highlights the benefits of FF. Which is mainly the fire and forget nature and space and time to then focus on other things. Cold Domination is probably objectively better with a broader suite of skills including debuffs like Sleet. As for Time, it is powerful but reliance on a boosted pbaoe buff you have to keep recasting can wear thin. My main is a dark/dark controller who relies on Fade, and after 40 veteran levels worth of play I can tell you it gets annoying, especially if it drops and you don’t realise. Not to say it isn’t good, but there are a QoL considerations, and FF is great with that in mind!

Just note as far as I know this is total, whether active or not. So they could be inactive now. I don’t think I’ve seen a traps defender yet, it my rad/ is assault rifle, so now I feel special! (Well extra special!) Will post my FF build

That would be a shame if procs don’t work. You’re right that the base damage is so high it would benefit a lot from flat +damage. I might try out a proc and report back my findings. At the moment I’ve been tinkering with it on Mids and ended up with 2x bombardment for the +5% range. Will bear your thoughts in mind! And thanks for the reassurance. I think I will skip mutation. I already have vengeance, so 3 powers based around a dead teammate seems a bit excessive to me! No one can say I don’t bring enough team focused support after all!

That would be so fun! Of course on a mob corpse it’s hard to justify 30 seconds of -50 res! I do love this for all the wrong reasons.

Are there people who enjoy playing as nuke material? I can think of some people who would be more useful in this capacity! What about slotting, and do you feel compelled to take mutation too? I’m on the fence. I could drop burnout for it and feel generally nicer. I think it was the way there corpse animates that really made me rethink! They look like they’re getting rezzed, and but they blow up and die again! Feels a bit of a tease! This citadel TF had many casualties, which was quite bizarre, and a few times I could nuke their corpse but had no awakens to offer so just had to sort of... leave them there... 😂

You don’t need to be an armchair game designer to know that judgement is completely broken. How can Lore pets have a 900s cooldown and yet an AoE power that kills all minions and lieutenants (even at +3) is 90s? Did someone miss a zero? There is a reason it is so controversial, because people create entire characters like controllers, defenders and tankers to deal with those mobs that were just killed in 1 hit. So for them, it’s not fun. Not everyone plays a blaster, brute, or scrapper. So I actually like incarnates, even judgement, which is why I made a benign suggestion in here on how to compromise by creating more difficult game modes or options to remove judgement from a TF in exchange for something (heck, anything!). It wouldn’t effect anyone who didn’t opt in. This ain’t some weird niche opinion, like you try to make out. People play games on hard modes all the time. Not everyone likes to play on very easy; they want a challenge. That’s why they make finely tuned characters. That’s why a lot of people play games on hard mode, or hardcore mode, or crushing mode, both on pc or console. You don’t buy a great car to drive around at 30mph forever. If anything CoH is an old game and plenty know what they’re doing. Creating some harder game modes to really challenge vets would be really fun. So an option to play without judgement would be well received, and there is scope for much more. It would make the game even better. To be honest smug suggestions that people just form groups and order everyone to not use incarnate powers is either failing to understand human behaviour in the extreme, or a useless suggestion aimed to placate, fully aware it will do nothing. So I think I’ve said all I want to say on this topic.

I have a FF build that works pretty well at all levels. Basically it involved only taking 3/4 of the powers (the 3 shields and repulsion bomb or PFF) and using the space that creates to go full leadership, full secondary, fighting and medicine. The great thing about FF, in a paradoxical way, is it can perform its core role with so few power choices and so leaves you free to pick up so much from pools and secondary. It was difficult to recreate the build with Cold Dom as there was too much I couldn’t skip. Also FF is very passive, so in addition to letting you pick up all these other cool powers, it gives you the space, in terms of time, to play as if your secondary was your primary. Grab Power Build Up (at 35!), and your shields can give people almost 40% defence, and with dispersion bubble or maneuvers you’ve pretty much soft capped the teams defence, by yourself, and with no need to debuff anything. (This is nowhere near as effective if FF is a secondary, so a defender speciality). And of course, mess protection for squishes as default. Then you’re free to go round blasting things. So pick a good blasting set and let rip. You have the space to pick up every blast and slot them all to max. Play like a blaster (well, a clever blaster, we are defenders after all!), comforted by the knowledge that everyone is safe. Yes it lacks in debuffs, but FF is great at picking one specific role and doing it to the max. People might say everyone has good defence at incarnate trials, but first of all that’s not my experience, and second of all, you can bring all your shields to a Positron 1 TF. It can do its core job very effectively, and at all level ranges. I haven’t figured out what blast works best For this role. But I’m drawn to Beam Rifle; it brings some debuffs that might compliment FF nicely, and repulsion bomb can be used to fill the AoE gap. Go shield and blast!

Not too much on the ones listed, they’re all on the lower price end. Maybe 3m each for Numina? It pays to put in reasonable bids and be a bit patient. Buy the enhancements as attuned as it helps while leveling as can slot early and you won’t need to replace them. For inf make sure you’re crafting the yellow recipe drops at low level as can sell them on the AH and they’re cheap to make for lowbies 😊 I did try choking cloud and liked it, could definitely see the mobs being held quite a bit. If you’re in melee range frequently then it is a great power. Part of the reason I skipped it was due to endurance costs as also running all 3 leadership power toggles.

I can share my build tomorrow when I’m back at my pc. But the main one is rad infection 4x Dark watcher and 2x defends debuff (I think defence debuff + defence debuff&end redux) Rad Heal - 6 slot numina for ranged defence. The unique for +recovery/regen lasts 2 minutes and since this is a self heal it’s usually okay here. You don’t need the bonus on you all the time but uptime would be near 100% in a team. AM 3 slots- recharge IO, performance shifter end mod, performance shifter end mod& recharge Lingering Rad - 6 slotted with the turtle slow set for the ranged defence. Not the best stats with this set but with global bonuses it works. The -slow is almost a root even at level 25 with attuned so I’m happy... Enervating end redux x1. Mids has the end cost for this doubled, its 0.52/s. choking cloud I skipped as have mostly cone attacks, but if you take, 6 slot lockdown for the ranged defence and hold proc which would work well. mutation I skipped, see my other thread on this.. fallout im still deciding how to slot. As above. EMP I just got it today but same. Though the epic hold proc for damage would be perfect if you can afford. I’ve taken every leadership pool power and don’t regret it. Victory rush is great and can alternate with AM at low levels for nice recovery. I would take victory rush at 14/16 if you can. Leadership is just amazing for defenders. my character has only 3 or 4 attacks so worth bearing that in mind as that’s my play style. Hope that helps. Just stuff I’ve figured out myself and I like ranged defence.

Hello fellow defenders. Who among us has experience with fallout? Looking for some advice. I have it on my defender (Unfortunately not EMP pulse at the time due to level) and just been using it to nice effect on a citadel TF. Blaster died and there was a whole group of enemies surrounding him. I activated vengeance, cast fallout, cast burnout and then fallout again and everything was.. dead (including the blaster). Neat trick once every 15 mins or so! So questions: How do you slot this power? Proc heavy? I have about 2-3 slots I can throw at it. Do you take Mutation and if not how do you live with yourself? I don’t have Mutation and felt a bit crappy! Especially once I saw how fallout animated their corpse.. especially after I did it twice in a row 😳 (I have my heal 6 slotted so aren’t deliberately trying to let people die!) Any other advice? Any cool fallout stories to share? The debuff numbers for fallout are insane. If someone dies I activate vengeance and fallout. It’s almost worth sacrificing someone for...!

What power and where are you seeing it?

The main problem with your argument is players very rarely voluntarily give up power. At best most people would ask for something in return. Like ‘I give up incarnates for x’ - where x is some bonus reward or reward modifier which you trade your incarnates in for. My answer would be +%merits. Which sounds good in paper but without incarnates it’ll take a lot longer so efficiency might be worse. But I think lower efficiency would be a price most would pay to play high level stuff without incarnate powers. Also the benefit of this is the base ‘default game’ remains as is, and this is just an extra option to support other play preferences. I think it’s a win/win, providing the devs can code it without too much of a headache. There are already challenge settings at the beginning of a TF so it would be adding extra options to that.

To be honest I tried my best to enjoy this power and make it work, I thought on a Dominator without normal debuffs (and coming from a Controller background with plenty) it would be right up my street. But it is just simply not effective enough to be worth casting. It has a really long cast time (over 2s), and if the Achilles heel proc doesn’t fire its bonus is negligible. In almost all cases you would have been better off simply attacking rather than debuffing - because the extra damage gained from the debuff is less than the damage you could have produced from attacks in the time it takes to cast. Or similar enough that it hardly warrants a power slot choice. In teams it is worse - it is a slow power more akin to my Rad’s Radiation Infection cast time - but only effects one target, and in a fast moving team it feels like an amazingly poor use of time where I’m not contributing anything. Basically, the bonuses are negligible, the cast time is long, it only effects one target, it needs to be armed with a proc and for that proc to fire to be effective. My suggestion would be reduce the cast time to 1.5s max (preferably lower). If it’s going to remain single target and with these numbers it needs to something fast you can weave in quickly at the very least, and then maybe it might be worth revisiting. Disappointed because I really liked the flavour, but there’s only so far im willing to stretch for nice flavour!