SomeGuy

You mean Electrical Melee? It's a stupid fun combo due to having two teleports. The Stalker version of this combo is pretty nasty due to the fact you do NOT come out of Hide after Shield Charge AND you can crank out some good ST DPS. I've done Brute, Scrap, and Stalker with this combo and really have to say the Stalker version of it is the most enjoyable to me.

Well, that's no fun.

I definitely don't feel like there is enough reward for figuring the set out. You can't faceroll KM and do good damage. You can with almost everything else. And I only notice Assault on measured runs.

You're definitely getting better at the rotation is what I read if you purposely took away 10% damage and had to stop attacking to heal. 😄

DMG enhancements go well with it I hear. Get ENOUGH recharge to run the chain you want. You don't need more. I've got...DB experience. WP, SR, BIO, ELA, ENA, and STN. DB does do it all, but so do a lot of other primaries. DB has two weapons though, and I personally think that's a cool aesthetic. Bio is the biggest DMG increase for the set. Stone is the same DMG on STATIONARY targets, but Stone doesn't have a taunt aura. Chasing runners is a HUGE DPS loss (chasing = zero DPS). ELA is the next biggest DPS gain in that group, but it doesn't have a taunt aura, but ELA is darn tough to kill. ENA is my personal favorite of the group. Yeah, it doesn't have a DMG boost like the other sets (I don't consider recharge a boost since you can fill this hole via other means) but it is hard to kill and has a taunt aura. Really easy to get to softcap with most damage types and have good recharge to have the attack chain you desire. You are pretty likely to have Incarnate-softcap in a team. Build for good slow/recharge resist? Tough build with really good DPS.

I suspect adding Enflame would get it in to lower if you wanted to. On very high high HIGH DPS builds it won't be that much, but for other ones it would do a lot.

It's not, but you see what I'm talking about when I say it takes some work to figure out. CS-Snipe-SB-QS-BB-SB Yeah, that's the same chain I was doing. ATO2 in CS. The chain actually was easy to get down, real easy actually. Trying to best figure out (which I'm still sure I didn't get close) how to use Power Siphon was the hard part. It has a LONG duration, so you don't want to use it every time it's up cause there's a really good chance that CS refreshed it.

Two something mark I'd guess. Lows 2s or high 2s? I dunno. *shrugs*

Me too. Granted, it's not my go-to set for anything, but put in the same tier as regen? Sheesh. That's just an insult. WP isn't a bad set, hell, I don't really consider any of the scrapper secondaries bad (other than regen).

lol yes they do

Guess we gotta do the /s thing here too, just in case, 😛

Honestly, I don't think I can remember. I hadn't touched TW for a lonngggggg time until recently. I do remember having CS (ATO2) in RA and prioritizing RA in the chain. I do know DB and IM can have some wild variables in times (especially DB...a string of SS misses really hurts).

It's pleasantly consistent. I was pretty surprised by that. The RNG normally led to runs stupid fast, to the point I had to throw them out. I had one that was 0:58 BEFORE I even got good at the chain. Yeah, that wasn't factored in my averages.

There are definitely a large amount of people that hate Brutes even existing. Some of those people are responsible for changes in this game. Brutes have from the start meant to be the class in between Tankers and Scrappers, so I can definitely see why balancing them was difficult. Tankers absolutely got overtuned to the point that Brutes don't even seem necessary any more for even regular content. The issue before the overtune was that there wasn't a need for Tankers because content could be handled just fine without a Tankers amazing survivablity. So instead of creating content requiring that from a Tanker, the AT was overtuned to make the existence of rolling a Brute over a Tanker pointless even for regular content. So, this genie is out of the bottle. To make Brutes relevant again I dunno what would need to be done. Have the Fury mechanic also boost Absorb/Res/Def along with DMG or something? I remember when the game was City of Brutes. I hate the idea of it going back to that, but it's City of Tankers now.

The (most of anyways) RNG factor with it comes down to the pets getting in and attacking. Barrier right before hustling in solves most of the not-dying problem for them. BlueRuckus back on Live is who did this build mostly. I just did small edits since then. I know that person was having buddies TP his pets on the pylon at the start of a run and he/she was getting crazy times. I think he got a sub 0:25s time with Lore? It was dumb, Musc/Barrier/Reactive Support is slotted but not active. The global EndRdx is super nice.

I just did some adjustments chatting with @Ratch_ and I'm getting times in the range he is talking about with TW/BIO now (even getting silly spikes way under the average). It does take a survivability hit, but Bio is a glass cannon anyways. @thunder_crane I suspect the Snipe is a really good filler in the chain, but I can't vouch for that. *I definitely have to agree with @Ratch_ about TW being higher up now. I'm legit surprised by the results I'm consistently getting. And I gave up a while back trying to crack under 1:25 with it again.

I totally want to see your TW/BIO/SOUL and hear your chain.

TF doesn't need to crit to guarantee short ET. It doesn't even need to land, just be cast. It does put some different thoughts on why CS/ATO2 should be used in ET. You can do some fun things with ATO2 in ET. You're gonna be able to do Whirling Hands and another attack in the ATO2 window with it there. *wait, did my response before sound like I was advocating for ATO2 in something other then ET? Cause I'm team ET for where I think ATO2 should be.

I actually got away from TW BEFORE the nerf cause of the same reasons you stated. There are more reasons, but those were a part of it.

TF-(buildup-ET (ATO2 here)-Snipe-BS Short ET looks like this for the ATO2 proc: Whereas TF's looks like this: That is going to eat up a LOT of the benefit of the ATO2 firing. If the ATO2 is in ET that leaves enough time to do a BS-Snipe in that window. Sometimes a BS is skipped since you should be doing BU in between TF and ET. So you can get a Snipe-TF (I think...but you can definitely get a TF). Keep in mind the ATO2 lasts for 3.25s once it activates. BS-Snipe is 3.036 total arcana time. You have 2.85s of ATO2 with it in ET. You have 1.483 with it in TF. So if you have the ATO2 in TF you get ONE attack (because you only get 1.005s of ATO2 if it's in TF). If it's in ET you get 2.85s. That's a lot of time. Even if you cast long ET it looks like this: Now the arcana time for long ET in 2,9, so you get 2.546s of the proc benefits, but that is still massively different than with it in TF. ATO2 Duration ET Short: 2.85s ET long: 2.546s BS: 2.498s TF: 1.005s

I think the post I responded to might draw some confusion. The response I gave remarks on how the current TW does better ST DPS than a DM with 1x stack of Soul Drain. Most primaries do, actually. For my own data I have 9 other primaries, paired with Bio Armor, having a better average time than TW/BIO average. I have 13 other primaries with better averages than DM/BIO. I've always considered Tier Lists as pretty good guidelines on where to start looking, but it definitely doesn't mean what I will enjoy the most. Hell, this one doesn't absolutely agree with my data. But it's close (looking at DB and WM). I LOVE playing DM. Damage wise it's an underperformer, but it's easily one of the more fun sets to play for me.

TW doesn't get Whirling Smash until 26 and Arc of Destruction until 32. I honestly can't imagine how frustrating it would be to play the set without those abilities and trying to solo. That's basically all your AOE (or AOE worth anything that is). AoD is ESSENTIAL for an optimal ST rotation to boot. So does it get better? I'd have to think it would if I was in your shoes.

I guess I'll respond to that question. TW is absolutely not in the same category as stuff like DB anymore. It falls into the "is it worth it?" thought process like Kinetic Melee. You know how much of a fight and RNG being on your side for those kind of times to happen for TW? Keep in mind TW is NOT averaging less than 1:20 with no temps. Where it's placed on this tier list lines up with my own data collection. You can't face-roll TW/BIO and expect to get a 1:30 time. You have to have a really REALLY tight attack rotation. It may be as tightly needed as a world first raiding guild DPS' rotation (and I'm talking from experience). And even then, you better have some RNG on your side.

There is a lot of irony here.

Even with the defense changes this build should be fine since it is soft-capped to all types except neg/psi. Parry would be useless with this build. 13pts of KB protection and 70% recharge/run speed protection. The Chance to Heal and Chance to Absorb procs will save you. Enough to the point it is noticeable. The reason for the Shield Wall 3pc is because HP>HP/s. This will exemp just fine. Catalyze everything (just get it off the AH that way). That's part of the reason the Kismet is in Power Shield and not Combat Jumping (to have access to it sooner if need be). Hopefully this gives some good ideas. Boxing and Brawl are just set mules for the Blistering Cold 2pc bonus. Same with Overload. It's just a mule for the Shield Wall unique. I don't even have it on my bars. Granted, it is a good power, even if you don't need the Defense from it. It provides other good stuff. Each attack is a defense debuff, so that debuff is a 1:1 increase to your chance to hit. Assault>Tactics very much in this build's situation.