jubakumbi

Not really talking about the code, there are servers with more and less creative freedom than HC at this point as well. This server chooses to restrict the creative freedom of names and costumes out of fear, for a specific example of the 'game fascists', which is completely thier choice, even if I think it's silly. By 'narrative' I am talking about those still trying to convince anyone there is 'right' or 'wrong' way to play loudly and with feeling, not invoke code changes to insure a traditional role based team must be used to complete content, or prevent powerleveling form occuring like the orignal developers tried to do, etc. It's a wide ranging community with many voices. I rail against a few of them, just as a few of them rail against me.

Sure, it is IMO and IME, as I have typed over and over again. I never typed ALL, that is you projecting and putting words in my prose. I specifically have stated I love teaming with the vast majority of players that play this game. Just because you have not encountered these things, just because your confirmation bias is different, it does not mean these players and actions do not exist, as they have been documented for far longer than I have been paying attention. I am not even saying they are a numerical majority here, I never have or meant to if I did, but IME, the rules-worshippers and busy bodies exist in this community in a larger number/percentage/volume than I encounter in all other games I have ever played and hold more sway over the 'narrative' if you will, than in those other games. Is that specific enough for you to realize I am not, in fact, calling ALL players of this game jerks?

I agree. However, IME, the attitude is just as prevalent in-game, just not as loud...as in most players do just drop the team over causing a ruckus over play-styles. The number of people telling others not to use KB/herd more/herd less/farm more/farm less/etc. in-game is still to high, IMO, even if it's more polite. I agree with @Saikochoro that while there is all kinds of back and forth on other game forums, it's far more concentrated, IME, on the game itself, the balance, the content, than how others play, with perhaps the sole exception being 'new players in endgame content' and the angst some players have around that, who lose their minds over the 'in-experienced'. I think part of the issue for COH was the original development team(s) themselves - at numerous times, they tried to make the player-base 'play it their way' when the code allowed a lot more. I love playing this game. I love playing with the vast majority of the people that play this game.

For more than a decade? I have been a 'community' member since Day 4 of Live. These (same) bossy voices have tried to dictate everything from costume to power choices in this game the whole time. It's not a 'bad day', it's a group of people that simply cannot abide other players doing things their way. People here cannot even allow kids to dress up as real supers for a day for fun without losing their minds from the level of corporate fear the original development team instilled in the player base. There are so many loud voices that play this game that are trapped in broken brain chemistry that they come across as the majority, IME. I am a life long gamer geek and this 'community' has always been this way, even while claiming it's 'the best'. It remains fascinating to watch.

I am so glad all these little unwritten rules mean nothing and that I don't have to bother to follow any of them to enjoy playing games, and that most games give me the tools to avoid all the players that want the rest of us to follow their rules. It literally sounds like children on a playground arguing over how kick-ball will go today, IMO. There are no 'TF Rules', one is not a dictator as a team leader, there is no onus on any player to do anything for the other humans in terms of power picks and usage, etc. This, IMO, is the 'root' of this community - a bunch of pushy bust-bodies that want to make everyone play their way and look down on those that do not, complete with passive aggressive prose claiming 'all play-styles matter'. IME, this is the bossiest MMO community that I have ever encountered and is what has soured the game for me, Live and after the Snap.

Why would anyone take anything posted on a gaming forum seriously? Seems like a very bad idea IMO. I read all forum posts in the voice of the 'leave Britney alone' guy. Everything on gaming forums is just hot air, IME, just gamers trying to forum PvP for our collective entertainment.

Just because there were more people playing the way you want to play, from your POV, does not make it the 'vast majority'. I can say the same thing about how I played, solo, with just RL friends, the other players had no impact on us and I knew lots of other groups like that, that did not bother to play to roles, because COH broke that mold. From Day 4 when I started. IMO, the Extroverts who love the press of people and the dependence on Roles in groups are not automatically a majority of players and never have been, they are simply the loudest because they were trained by other games like EQ and they expect(ed) all games to be like that and have no problem propagating the mechanics they are used to using. It's then just human nature to assume your 'community' is the 'majority', it's just how our brains work. Does not mean it's true or accurate, does not mean the intent is nefarious in talking about either, there are no real statistics to back up any of the arguments, they are all subjective. Presenting it in the way I see over and over again, this idea that strict Role based play that requires other people is the 'old school' way, implies, even if involuntarily so, that other playstyles are 'lesser'. It just does. It is built into the entire idea that there 'should' or 'should not' be things that 'force' it, be they 'code or community'. The problem IME is that attacking that idea, the idea that there have to be Roles, that there are better/worse ways to play, too many people take as a personal affront. Attacking the idea is not attacking the person. I hated Role based play in EQ, I played Asheron's Call instead, for example. One of my life long friends prefers EQ. No biggy. I don't play games now that force me to group, like the MSQ of FFXIV. I am one of the 'old men' in gaming terms, I am 52. I refuse to get painted into a corner over that, I will not just get lost in a sea of nostalgia of 'the good old days' when no such thing exists, to stop growing is to start dying. (Not really back, this is simply a topic about which I am paasionate and I noticed, I lurk, I am interested in this 'community' from many angles.)

From my POV, this entire topic revolves around prejudice, even if it's passive-agressive in it's presentation. By saying "That's fine that you do that, it's just not for me" and then saying there are not enough players that play the way you like, one is, in fact, throwing shade on the 'other' playstyle, IMO, through a passive-aggressive "I am not really saying anything bad" filter. Why would anyone care how another person plays the game, bring that onto the forum, etc. otherwise? What possible reason could these types of threads have to exist if not to in some way 'shame' those who do not play the same way, especially calling it 'old-school' as if there were any other way the game was ever played? All of the playstles are 'old-school' they all existed from Day 1...slow leveling, fast leveling, group play, solo play, all of it. There is no single 'old-school' way to play COH, only players that cannot or will not see that, IMO. Why should any of us care one bit how others play the game, much less come onto the forums to try and shame those who do not play the same way? It's just llama drama.

Willful ignorance.

Like @Frostbiter, I signed out of the forums weeks ago, personally with no real intent to sign back into them, I just stop in to see what the current buzz is. Being one of the early villains on this iteration of the forums depending upon your POV, I thought I could add something here. Basically, I am blunt and opinionated. I don't sugar coat, I don't see the point. IMO, if you are old enough and cognizant enough to be on the forum posting, then you are old enough to deal with negative backlash to your opinions and ideas. And that's what I choose to bluntly talk about, the opinions and ideas. I don't always succeed, as my word-smiting is not perfect, nor do I care that much about offending people, because IMO, one does not have the right to not be offended, if nothing offends, then IMO, you are not paying attention. The issue, IME, especially on game forums (dealing with another forum community right now that thinks, like this one, it's community is 'awesome') wherein there is a similar discussion occurring. IME, some people choose to see an opposing view to their ideas, be that view presented with snark or not, well worded, or not, with vitriol, or not, as a personal attack. IME, many people simply cannot separate the idea to be discussed, vetted, dissected, etc., from themselves. I can hate an idea and love the person that presented the idea, it's just that simple. I, personally, exist for the answer to the question of "Why?" and when I ask that of people on these forums, just like other game forums, many get mad at me because they think I am interrogating them and accusing them of something...when I just want to understand how they came to the conclusion/idea/course of action. The same thing happens to me in real life all the time. I have the position I do because I won't stop until I find out "Why?" Lastly, the root of these communication issues, the whole idea of being baited or entrapped, is often IME because one person expects everyone around them act like all the other people in their personal community, not remembering a game like this attracts a wide variety of people from all kinds of communities, where ones persons blunt is another persons snark is another persons insult... I find it's best to read all forum posts in the tone of the 'Leave Brittany Alone' video, it keeps it all in the right context, of just being hot air about a video game, IME. I know we are all real people behind these keyboards, but I also know whole lot of gamer forum posters, IME, simply lack the emotional maturity to discuss things without turning dissent on ideas into personal attacks an losing their cool. 🙂

You are not the only one. Rogue servers will continue to have this kind of drama, because they are run by gamers, not game professionals. My advice is to explore your gaming options and not allow Stockholm sydrome or peer pressure to dictate your COH play-space.

Kicking people off of an MMO team is part of the llama drama I avoid by simply soloing. I simply do not play online MMO type games to meet people, herd people, teach people, listen to people, or to really 'people' at all...I play to relax my mind and people usually just mess that all up... 🙂

I play/played almost all MMOs at one point or another over the years. I just avoid the dance missions where I can and I do not participate in group activities that require the herding of the players, I find it terribly tedious to wait for some person I don't know to finish petting the dog and focus on the game...I don't play video games to stand around an wait on other people...don't care to deal with other people losing thier minds because Jim the Barbarian do not get our of the red stuff in time either...nothing about it is appealing to me. Doe not prevent me from playing MMOs, I just avoid some content.

Or you could just turn off Help Chat.

If you like to dance like that in a group...IMO, that is yet another valid, but small, portion of the playerbase - I detest 'the dance' and all the llama drama around herding the cats. I would prefer pretty much any form of challenge I have played in games over 'stay out of the death patches'...

Well, badge hunters would love it and hate it. Beyond that ... I like it, but... Bragging rights is really only a motivator IME for a small portion of the population, so while possibly an easy addition that I would never say no to, I don't think it would really appeal to a large portion of the playerbase. It sounds like what the posters looking for more IME want, not just from this thread mind you, is for there to 'be a reason' they have all the cosmic power they do, as a group, and therefore really want group content that challenges a full group of full Incarnates... I can see people possibly creating that, with many various ways to define 'challenge', using the tools that seem to exist. But the problem is what form of 'challenge'...and the form of the 'rewards'...the same old carrot and stick. IMO, what the players want is for someone to pick up the development of the content of this game with the knowledge of ALL the other games they have now seen to add new content Incarnates find tough to beat ... it's a great dream. Adding more HPs does very little. Adding in death patches is just 'learn the dance'. Adding in more restrictions just gets called a 'cop-out'. Adding in more enemies just increases the number of 'rewards' that these players would already have plenty of... Do we really see thes small, often at-odds, volunteer teams doing what current full dev houses have trouble producing? I am not trying to be a wet blanket, but I can agree that beyond badges and simply making more, larger sacks of hit points, can anyone really expect at this point?

Most players of these types of games will not touch content unless there is a shiny associated with that content though... I have never seen a place where harder content was added and the playerbase did not expect subsequent power increases. I am sure there are a whole lot of systems that can be 'looked at' and refined in the this game ... who's going to do all that work? 🙂 Just being real here. I think the tools exist to make/enhance some content, possibly even make it 'more challenging' for the top-end IO builds in a group, etc. That's a huge undertaking on it's own ... that's shoots itself in the foot two hours after it's live, because 'people' want 'approprite rewards' ... IMO, people that really want to be challenged are looking at the wrong game. The only way for COH to possibly offer the level of challenge these players desire would be to start with a server with no IOs and other restrictions ... which is seen as a cop-out ... It's obvious to me that the players want a full dev house behind the game making it into to modern MMO, which is just wishful thinking and not based in reality. *shrug*

Like, most things touched by people? Now that's just ... sad. You can have all my Internet points, they mean nothing to me.

From my POV, adding new, optional, 'harder' content is the easy part. The hard part kicks in from the players that then want the new 'harder' content to create 'better' drops...and now the circle starts all over again... Not against having more significant challenges for those that want that, not at all, but IMO, I agree with the poster above me, most players play for shinies and progression. If hard things get added, they will want the rest of that treadmill... The people who push the envelope will have the new content on farm mode in a couple hours and start looking for more... I have yet to see a live game in which this has not happened, personally.

It can be as easy as just not patching that Psi hole your set has, or not adding in as much defense with IOs, or making sure the character can still run out of endurance if not played well. There are a ton of ways to still have a flaw, IMO. I can agree overuse of direct 'kryptonite' is often not fun, but that is not the same thing, IME.

Back on Live, I had a group of life-long friends that played. Only one returned with me. After just a few months, he passed away late last year. The return of COH allowed me to interact with him in those last months and I would not have otherwise. His name happened to be Bill. 🙂 So, the return of COH changed me, a lot. I know this game is many things to many people and it's why I fight so hard to try and insure no one entity takes control, no play-style takes control, no single cliche is allowed to rule the roost, because one point of failure is a bad thing. I fully realize many of the posters on these forums do not like my methods, but I want to see the game prosper as much as anyone, even if it pisses off those that don't approve of the play-styles of others.

In this game you can make a character as powerful as a god like Thor, or as 'normal' as a homeowner out for vigilante justice. With the ability for the player to create these power level themselves using, or not using, IOs, etc., the challenge is what the individual chooses to make it, IMO. If you want the game to be easy, you can make it easy, if you want it to be hard, you can make it hard. IMO, just because you beat a game by creating the most powerful character using the tools available, does not mean there has to be an endless challenge for that character, they became a god. IMO, it's just personal responsibility to find the challenge level you enjoy and this game offers many of them if you take the time to find them. I think the biggest failing on the part of most players is the inability to give their (most powerful) characters actual flaws...flaws are what make real personalities in comics, flaws are what define heroes as they overcome the setbacks caused by those flaws, IMO.

I, for one, will not be controlled by a group of gamers running a rogue server using stolen property, full stop. There is a small group gamers right now that are literally the tail wagging the dog here, IMO, having convinced a large group of people that their way is the One True RIght Way and "The Talks", with no proof, at all, it's facinating from my POV. Everyone here is right in that only time will tell what happens. I choose not to allow random people on the Internet to tell me what I can and cannot do. They run the servers, the don't run me. 🙂 You can all stay as high and mighty as you like, looking down on anything not HC sucking up to HC as much as you like. Have fun, do what you want, don't let the FUD of others stop you! 🙂

I say do what you want, HC has no legal authority and the other servers are happy to have you stream, TS is having a charity stream soon. Why people are allowing themselves to be controlled by these server runners is ... interesting to say the least.

Some other players are generally the only thing I find annoying.