Coyotedancer

Adding a +1 to that. It should not be assumed that everyone going into these has all three level shifts.

Okay,,,, as sick as I'm getting of seeing this mission over and over again, my re-run with Aegis (Illusion/Time Controller) was hilarious this time. I set the mission to -1/x1/No Bosses I let her keep her full set of T3 iToys, so she went in at 50+3 The first group I pulled apart into two groups of four. Her Phantom Army and Phantasm had no trouble with them The next groups I didn't try to split. I had to resummon my Phantasm halfway through, but ultimately Team Aegis won. Confusing a couple of minotaurs definitely helped when I decided to use that trick. The last batch was close to another group, so I tried to pull them over to another spot. BOTH groups aggroed. Disaster? Well... no. I let the gang do their thing with the first group and went the cheese-route with the second group. 'Used Deceive on them one by one while they threw rocks at my PA. Watching them teleport each other into little knots was fun. If you have an Illusion Controller, I highly recommend it. 👍 So, with the goons at -1 and a full set of level shifts and no bosses, a squishy controller with a confusion effect can handle full groups. For the second run, though, I pulled her Lore and Destiny, taking her in at 50+1 against the same -1/x1/No Boss conditions. She was still able to cheese her way through groups using (Abusing? 😝 ) Deceive, but there was more missing involved, so it took longer. Hitting the monsters the non-cheese way with PA and her Phantasm and her assorted other powers was tougher. Like the first run I did with her there was some timing and luck involved. She could handle up to six at a time pretty reliably, but a full group of eight was hairy. If she didn't have the high recharge she does, I'm not sure she could have pulled it off. So.... yeah. With a 50+1 Illusion Controller, Deceive is your new best friend. Sets without some kind of confusion power? I'm not sure how they would handle a full group. That's why I wanted to try hitting groups both with the use of Deceive and without it. Next up is Amtes the Mastermind,

I set Shonokin's difficulty to -1/x1/with Bosses for his first run and -1/x1/No Bosses for the second. He had an Alpha shift only, so was 50+1 himself with T2 powers. (He's the "In-Progress Everyman") I went in with Grey Kestrel at +4/x1/With Bosses and then +4/x1/Without. She's fully Incanrnated, so was 50+3 with T4 powers. (She's the "Over-engineered Edge Case") Aegis, the Illusion Controller is also 50+3. I sent her in at +3/x1/No Bosses. She's has T3 powers. (She's the "Average Non-melee Incarnate") Kai, the Stalker, is 50+3 with T4 powers and I sent her in at +3/x1/With Bosses. (In the past, prior to the Cim mob revamp and aggro changes, she was able to solo the mission without the helpers at +4/x8/With Bosses, so she was my "control character" so to speak. ) Does that clarify things? ETA: I'm about to head back over to rerun the Illusion controller at -1/x1/No Bosses, along with a couple of other new transfers... A Shield/Street Scrap and a Demon/Time MM. ETA 2: Tessamun (The "Average In-Progress Melee" test) Street/Shield Scrap Mission set to -1/x1/No Bosses I removed her Hybrid, Destiny and Lore completely to simulate an incomplete character working on their toys. She went in at 50+1 with a T4 Alpha and T3 Interface and Judgement. She had no trouble at all with the monsters in groups of 1 to 3. (Yeah. I actually found a cyclops off by himself and managed to pull him as a single with her Blackwand-) The average pull of 4 was painful but survivable with some judicial use of inspies and jousting. She survived a pull of five with a tiny bit of health because the last minotaur missed and she didn't. Pure RNG luck. A group of anywhere from 6 to the full 8 was, pretty much as expected, deadly.

That's why we've been testing on Beta. And yeah... It's hard with the Page 4 build to pull the monsters in ones or twos. I only managed to do it a few times with one character, using Zapp (an actual snipe attack-), from cover, right at max distance. Even then, it wasn't a sure thing. As I said my average attempts at pulling ended up with groups of four. Jousting is pretty luck-dependent... I tend to bounce around A LOT with Shonokin (the Sent I was testing with-) and it really didn't seem to be a good solution. Eventually they still got enough hits in to knock him over.

Like anything, it's also dependent on the character you take in. Kestrel (DB/WP Scrap) and her Adept were able to go Leeroy Jenkins on a full group that was level 54 with the bosses off. They could handle half groups of four monsters at that same level (Effectively +1, since she was +3 and the goons were set to +4) with the bosses on. Full groups at +4 with bosses took her apart pretty handily. But Kes is a fully T4ed character with a ludicrous build and a perma-summoned sidekick. She's not what we should count as any kind of average... She's the over-engineered edge-case. The more "average" character (the Dark Sentinel) taken in without the extra two level shifts from Lore and Destiny, with just an Alpha shift and a set of T2 toys did, indeed, have trouble with the mission set to -1/No Bosses. He could handle smaller, partial groups of monsters and the Talon hordes at that difficulty... But a larger or full pull of the monster groups flattened him every time. I think the problem with the current/Page 4 monster mobs is that this is an arc intended to be a) soloed and b) done by characters still trying to completely equip their incarnate slots. It's part of the progression, not the "end game".... So, if an average-strength character like Shonokin, with lower-tier incarnate toys and incomplete level shifts, can't handle the groups on their own (The helper NPCs may not survive to that point, remember, so the odds of having to face those beasts completely solo is pretty high-) then it needs to be given a once over. Maybe the answer isn't to downgrade the monsters, but to buff the survivability of the NPC helpers? You do get a nice badge for diving in without them, but forgoing that badge to clear the mission with a less-developed character might be a reasonable trade.

I've been trying it out over on Beta with characters at all kinds of different levels, stages of incarnation and boss/no boss settings... Even in cases where the level was effectively -1, pulling a sizeable group of the monsters (Which was typical with the aggro changes in Page 4. My test pulls most often got four at a time.) tended to be problematic if the characters weren't already solidly-built full incarnates. That was particularly true with the one I took in with just an Alpha shift and some T2 toys, which wouldn't be an unusual situation for someone using the arcs to build a character's goodies. Even turning bosses off in addition to flooring the monsters' level didn't solve the issue completely in the cases where Shonokin ended up with a full mob of eight rather than a partial pull. The monsters still got lucky often enough to make those fights a matter of "How many inspies did you bring?" Granted, that was on a Dark/WP Sentinel... But I picked him to test the "Incarnate whose iToys are still in-progress" situation BECAUSE Sents are very middle-of-the-road characters. Even a well-built one isn't going to be an UberToon. They're somewhere in between being great and being paper tigers.... so... a reasonable average "Everyman" sort.

It would also be a pain in the bum for those of us active farmer types who dual-box with our own alts. Granted, some people probably consider that a Good Thing and an excellent side bonus to hitting the AFKs, but I'd find it annoying to have to stop what Suni's doing to switch over every X-minutes and bump the lowbie she's getting to 32 or the support character whose Incarnate unlocks or iToys I'm working on. It would seriously harsh my zen, man. 😝

The issue is that this particular mission is x8 rather you want that many goons or not. Your difficulty setting doesn't affect the size of the mobs. It assumes that you'll have the helper NPCs... Unfortunately, those helpers may or may not (Too often not-) survive the first half of the mission (buckets of Talons-) to help your character with the second (the herds of cyclops and minotaur). It's not a great design to assume they'll be there.

Most of my crew eventually seem to end up with a piece of music on my "background playlist" that I think of as theirs... Kaikara, who's arguably my main here, suits Inkubus Sukkubus' Belladonna & Aconite, Something of a Gothic classic. Which works really well for a young Death Mage who likes dance music. 😝 Lasya Stanton, Graceful Ivory Mask, from the post-Battalion city of Nova Primeva. is a professional time traveller. She's also one of Kai's descendants. She got Blackmore's Night's rather mysterious Cartouche... Grey Kestrel's music has always been Shiva's R&B Dub from Arling & Cameron... for reasons I can't even really explain. It's just very her. Shonokin, my Appalachian gentleman-monster. ended up with Tony Furtado's Bolinas,,, ,,, And my auromancer Cantus' pick was pretty obvious.... My entry in this year's Slot Machine Challenge, he was named after my favorite Fraggle Rock character. Cantus and his minstrels were introduced into the series with their own theme. Let Me Be Your Song, sung by Jim Henson, who voiced the character.

There's a difference between "shitty" and just tedious. Darn near anything *can* solo Heather's arc at -1 with the bosses off. but that doesn't mean it's a fun time. Especially not as many arcs as you have to run to equip a character, even with the level grants. I've run a few low-damage defenders and controllers through DA for all of their toys. After awhile I was rooting for Mot to swallow the place. 😝

Now I really want level 1 Hami-Os... As random drops from those tiny little baby hydra heads you see in the sewers sometimes, maybe? That would be an adorable Easter Egg kind of thing to add,

I'm not so sure I agree that "changes are needed", honestly. Not beyond killing the EMP-to-Merit highway, anyway... I still think the level grants are one of the very best things added to the game. Removing or reducing them would be a bad move.

*rabble!* *rabble!* *rabble!* 👎👎👎 👎👎 👎👎 👎👎 👎👎 Did I do that right? DO we also need torches and pitchforks?

It would be useful to be able to send along the iBits at least, I think.... As I've said before, the characters I take through DA for their iToys often end up with piles of spare Common and Uncommon bits accumulated while they're trying to get their Rares and Very Rares. They aren't much use to those characters after a certain point. If I could send them on to the next alt? That would be a Good Thing. And yes. Vet levels and the level grants should remain in AE. Not every character is suitable for the DA grind and not all of us are able to do iTrials. Time zones are A Thing.

I'd say transfer is just fine between characters... Threads, shards, iBits, and all that. We can already transfer Emps that way, so why not? I wouldn't really be for transferring between accounts. It just seems to me that iToys are one of those things that are better done just for yourself, if that makes any sense? Being able to hand bits to your own characters that may not be suited to DA doesn't seem odd to me, but for some reason buying your iBits on the auction house or getting tossed a bunch of Emps by an SG-mate does, That may not be a very logical distinction, but... yeah. Opinions don't always have to be.

I like this idea.

Maybe... People can be impatient. Me personally? I'm not bothered by the reduction. It'll add some time to getting a sidekick to 50, sure, but not so much that I'm worried about it. Three hours just isn't that much of an issue over two when you're a zen-type who's doing the farming for fun.

I play a silly game with all of my Stalkers... When I'm running them solo and come across a big room with multiple targets, I try to "perfectly stalk it". That is to say, I try to take out each target individually, without any of the others noticing that I did it. It's harder than you might think, depending on how many goons there are in a group and how close they are together. But it's good fun trying to be the Ultimate Sneaky Assassin.

Exactly that. It's an MMO, sure... but it's one that's always been solo-friendly playability-wise, and so has always had a substantial number of both solo and duo/trio small-team players. That's a feature, Astra, not a bug.

For a "less optimal" active farmer's time.... You know, a scrub like me... It takes about two-and-a-half runs of Cult's Fire City map to get a sidekick using a 2xXP booster to 50 right now. At just under 50 minutes per run taking it at a steady but zen-mode pace, call it a hair over two hours.

Oof,.. My try with the Illusion/Time 'troller was total chaos. 😝 She has a full set of T3 toys, so I ran her at +3 with bosses off for an even-level though somewhat easier time of it. She was able to pull apart a full herd into two groups of four the first time around. That actually didn't go too badly between the Time effects, her pets and some luck. The second try, though, we got the entire herd. That was a knock-down, drag-out, stuff-running-everywhere hot *mess*. Which ended with a flat Aegis when her PA went down and a couple of cyclops got lucky with their thrown rocks faster than she could resummon. With better timing she might have survived it, but it wouldn't have been what you would call a graceful victory. Just for fun. I also tried it with Kestrel... a DB/WP Scrapper rebuild of my old Stalker main from the Liberty days. (She's a bit of an over-engineered nightmare, with a perma-summoned Adept companion for extra damage.) I took them in at +4, but kept bosses off just to see what would happen if I played "Slightly-overconfident Leeroy who's heard that this mission is dangerous but thinks They Can Handle It". (Your Stereotypical Scrapper? 😆 ) She also has an actual snipe attack from her Patron pool, so could pull from better range than Kai could. Doing a "bunny hop" fast snipe from behind a rock she *DID* manage to pull one monster at a time a couple of times. It wasn't consistent, and the rest of the time she got from two to four at a time as usual, but she's the first one I've tested who managed a one-off at all, so there's that. Do it using a real snipe, from cover, and you MIGHT be successful. With bosses off, they had no trouble with groups of four or five. These beasties seemed to have a rougher time with Cardinal's electrical attacks than they did with Kestrel's swords. Just to be silly, the last group I jumped with them, I went Full Leeroy just to see what would happen. 'Fired the Barrier, the Support hybrid and Rune of Protection for Cardinal, Kes' Strength of Will and dove into the middle of a herd. I had to use a few green inspirations when the Barrier started to fade and I definitely got lucky that Cardinal decided to hover-blast instead of getting right up in the monsters' faces (As is his usual habit. Yes, let's just HUG that Warwalker why don't we? <_< ), but when the dust settled they won. So, it can be done on a melee character. You just have to go in with a solid character that loaded for proverbial bear and hope that the RNG is with you. And that you remembered to set the mission to "no bosses".

Yep. They are definitely bosses, not EBs.

Since I tend to run my 50s at all kinds of levels with the family SG, I still build to be fairly energy-efficent without the iToys... but old habits die hard, Even without the Wolfepack, I never really stopped doing that on at least some level.

Taking them at even-level (So at +3 with bosses on-) Kai was able to survive two of them at a time pretty handily. Three or four was dicey and any more than that was a *very* quick flattening... And that's as a well-built full Incarnate with T4 toys. For comparison, prior to the revamp this little KM/Bio stalker was able to solo DA from start to finish, including this arc, at +4x8. It wasn't quick, but it WAS possible.... It's one of her Diary entries... With the arc as it is on beta, I seriously doubt she could do it again. I was completely unable to pull the monsters one or two at a time with her. The smallest group I managed to peel off of a herd was four, When I went in with Shonokin (Dark/WP Sent) I had enough spare salvage bits to make him some new toys, so decided to fake being an Incarnate newbie and switched out his usual iToys for some T2s. He only had an Alpha level shift and I set the difficulty to -1. He ate the Talons for lunch. But again, I was completely unable to get the monsters in small chunks. I always got either the entire herd's attention or the nearest 5. Even with his mobility and Dark being Dark, there was just no clearing the things. He got flattened in a hurry. I haven't had time to try it with the Illusion/Time controller yet, but given the difficulty separating the mobs into smaller groups, I'm not holding out a lot of hope, even if I set her on -1 and let her keep all three of her level shifts. (Aegis has T3 toys-) Not being able to pull them in as singles or pairs makes this mission a royal pain in the rump.

Spiffy! I'm committed elsewhere for awhile, but hopefully I can throw White Thorn Kai at it later tonight (She's the one in my crew who's still wearing the "Knows No Fear" badge. 😆 ) along with my less-incarnated SS Brute- ETA: Actually, I think I'm going to queue Shonokin and Aegis, too. Dark Sent and Illusion/Time Controller. I want to see how a ranged character and a squishy one fare.