Coyotedancer

Woo! Made it in again. My luck with hitting the donation window has definitely improved.

That could be pretty entertaining... and certainly better than unexpected and probably unwanted PvP.

There are two Croatoa missions I autocomplete every single time I go through the place... That annoying "Stop 30 Fir Bolg from escaping" mission that Frostbiter mentioned and the fifteen minute Red Cap Stand-Around. They're both annoying as all heck.

Fingers. Having fingers would be nice....

Just to point out here, since I seem to have become the thread's latest chew toy... I have been talking about high level teams here. Support characters have always been loved (and needed much, much more-) at lower levels.

I've played this game for a very long time, Arcane... and I'm not one of the spreadsheet warriors by any means. Deep diving into the math isn't my thing. From "lived experience", it's always seemed to me that high level teams have never really needed support characters, though. Sure, they liked having them around... Most smart teams still do... But even in the old days they weren't exactly All That on an otherwise solid team. Like I said upthread, maybe that perception is just a reflection of the type of people that I ran with in the old days, but the impression I got at the time was always of being "nice to have, but we'd have been fine if you'd brought the scrap instead". Sorry if that observation offends you... But it's the truth as I experienced it.

*livin' the Dark life* 😄

"That's not the way the game used to be" was what I was reacting to, Ral. There's never really been a time when support characters were all that (Much less necessary-) when it came to the high level game. It could be argued that they're less so now than they were at some time in the game's past... but that's just a matter of degree, and I obviously don't see as much difference as you seem to. Maybe playing with the badgers and speed-runners back on Liberty vs. the less build-focused roleplayers and lower-key maniacs now colors my observations... But Bright really didn't feel like any less of a tag-along in the early days than Ivory does now. (Complete aside... when I mentioned this conversation and the pre-IO/post-ED period to FlyingCodeMonkey, who is and always has been a "Controller specialist", he laughed. He actually walked away from the game completely for awhile during that period, because of how poorly Controllers fared. 😝 )

I'm not sure I really agree with that... I think there may be some Nostalgia Goggles involved here. Some pining for the "good old days" that never were... Brightfires, my very first City character (and first 50-), was a Kinetic Defender. Even way-back-when, higher level teams liked having her around certainly, but really didn't NEED her. I'd have said the same about the Sonic and FF Defenders who followed her. The only time they needed my Empath was the STF where someone had to keep GW from doing terrible things to the tank. Were some characters and teams less independent of support characters than they are now? Sure. But if there was ever a Golden Age when people didn't dare set foot in a difficult mission without their Defenders and Controllers, I don't think I ever saw it.

For whatever it's worth, for anyone who feels like their support characters aren't valued on end-game teams? I highly recommend running them exemplared with lower level groups. That's what I do routinely with all but one of mine. (The Time/Dark I mentioned up-thread... Ivory... is the only one I run at 50+) Those groups are the ones that need you and they'll usually love to have you. It's good fun.

I can only go by what I've seen among the people that I team with on Everlasting and, to a lesser extent, Excelsior... A pretty even blend of roleplayers, casuals and absolute speed-running maniacs between the two... and I'd give it a rough 50/50 between people who do extensive set-builds and people who don't. Among the "don't" types, many just run with commons and maybe a few procs or specials, even at 50. SO-only characters at 50 seem to be pretty unusual, but not unheard of. Below that? They're more common than you'd think, especially in the 30's from what I've seen.

I'm just going to chalk this one up to different server cultures and different lived experiences.... Because I just haven't seen it being that huge of an issue. Sure, some teams *do* run like smash-time wrecking balls and damn the torpedoes... and the squishies who'll get left behind. But, again, that's not universal. I can honestly say I've been on as many teams that DIDN'T run that way as team that have. It's a choice in either case, not a requirement.

*laughing* Both of mine, too. I just can't stand Spines, on a farmer or anything else. That spine burst business would make me absolute mental if I had to listen to it constantly.

You really, really DON'T need to be soft-capped to participate in late-game/end-game content here, Bit... You seriously don't. No matter what the AT forum regulars might tell you, that's just never been necessary. Out in the game, it's not expected or by any means universal. I'd go so far as to say that you don't even need an IO set-build to participate. Unless you're trying to solo at higher difficulty or joining high-challenge tasks like serious speed runs, a character will handle just fine with commons and a team of them will still make a reasonable mess of the game's content.

I just want to find the person who thought movement speed suppression was a Good Idea and drop a fire ant down their shorts. <_<

Just a reminder here... Keep in mind that *NOT EVERYONE PLAYING THE GAME IS A META-AWARE POWER-GAMER* Most of us that hang around the forums? Yeah. Many of us are. But we're not the Joe Average players out in the game itself, and we never have been. Yes, the game seems easy as cake to anyone who knows how to build a character with soft-capped defenses and all the bells and whistles. That isn't universal, though, and it skews our perceptions. Sometimes it seems to skew them A LOT. So, before we start talking about making the whole game more difficult, it might be useful to step back and have a look at what "average" is and consider how making the game harder for the "high end" players might make life pretty unpleasant for the mid-range and low end that I suspect are a heck of a lot more common than the forum spreadsheet warriors and MIDS gurus.

I spent the morning on a character who both spends her life ON FIRE *and* doing ridiculous slow-motion backflips when she claws things... The "unrealistic" thing is sort of front an center in the City. Realism doesn't just get ignored, it gets pulled into a dark alley, stuffed in a sack and shipped to Siberia.

People would still join teams specifically advertised as running at 50+Whatever.... and then complain whenever anyone fired a Judgement or Destiny.

You do realize this is an utterly unrealistic comic book game, right? And that a fair few of the things our characters do are impractical if not outright impossible for actual humans? I really don't think the practical limitations of actual weapons use was given much consideration when City's attack sets were designed. XD

It's a interesting idea, the 'No iToys Allowed'-toggle on teams.... But I'm not sure even having that would stop the belly-aching about "OMG Incarnates kicked my dog and insulted my mother and ruined my game!"

I *hate* that flight is time-limited so sharply and only available in certain areas... But the wings really are gorgeous. I want Qinn's hair... And Khae's... And Tal's outfit...

For what it's worth, the PB/Farsight/Clarion combination really isn't as de facto as all that. Power gamers who are deeply invested in meta-building tend to use it, but it's far from universal or even expected in my experience. I'm saying that as someone whose most-often-played-at-50+ Defender is a Time/Dark/Dark with Ageless.

Yes. Yes he did. XD

Somewhere Captain America is raising an eyebrow. You know he is. XD

If you can alter animations to make KinMelee work with a shield (Which you can. Mr. CD runs a Kin/Shield Brute that's mildly scary), it shouldn;t be TOO much of a stretch to get Staff or Titan to work. DB would be silly, though. You're right about that one.