Zepp

The numbers: Testing in NW<->SE zone travel on an equal footing (travel powers between 87.95-88.00) showed that in most zones SS was 95-97% as effective as Fly and SJ was 98-100% as effective. Outlier zones where this did not hold were Boomtown, Grandville, Faultline, Skyway, and the Shadow Shards. Dark Astoria was not an outlier. Testing at speed caps by myself and others showed differences in travel times correlated strongly with cap differences outside the five aforementioned outlier zones. Furthermore, while SJ saw the largest boost (it went from 84.3% SS speed cap to 91.8% SS speed cap) Fly + Afterburner saw the greatest comparative nerf (95% to 77.1% of SS speed cap). Making AB a toggle would raise Fly+AB speed cap to 85% of SS speed cap, which would still be an overall nerf compared to pre-update comparative performance. The Cottage Principle suggests that the game developers give weight to precedent. The Parity Principle suggests that equivalent powers should perform relatively equally. Based on the numbers, both of these principles were ignored in implementation of the new caps. Could you please point out where I am making an assumption?

While I think the Group Fly issue is important and related to the Travel Pool Updates addressed in this thread. This thread seems to be more focused on Travel-Defense toggle exclusivity and the Afterburner nerf. If you can clearly and specifically state your position on Group Fly/Group Teleport as pertaining to MMs, that would be a good thread to start.

To clarify, the reason I brought up the previous discussion was because it was related to my support for the OP's assertion that Afterburner should be restored to a toggle without a time limit. I suggested that it would be reasonable, especially since Fly is disproportionately slow compared to SS & SJ. Wavicle made the false assertion that the current distribution was "correct" to which I responded with reference to data which disproved this assertion. Luminara jumped on this with arguments from authority and accusations that I was leading the discussion off topic. As such, I am clarifying my statements and attempting to frame them so that it is clear that they are relevant to this discourse and not a hijacking of this thread. Even if Afterburner were reverted to a non-time-limited toggle, it would still be slower than it was prior to the change (as a percentage of SS speed), As such, this is a reasonable suggestion. In fact, even if my suggested numbers were to be accepted, Fly+Afterburner would still be taking a hit (as compared to the pre-update comparative numbers). As for the rest of the OP's suggestions, I do not agree with a return to toggle exclusivity between the Travel and Defense versions of the powers. It adds a needless extra step when entering/exiting combat. Also, Hover has the added benefits of flight control and Magneto flight pose (optional). Evasive Maneuvers is not that good when paired with Fly, but is exceptional when paired with Hover to reach pre-update cap numbers without combat suppression. The only issue with EvMan is that it requires you to take an extra power. Most of the changes were good, however, as the data suggests, the proportional speed caps were not adjusted properly. That being said, the OP's suggestion of a reversion is not a good idea, however some adjustments may be appropriate.

That is an interesting issue. I was wondering what you think would be a functional way to address this issue would look like?

You are right, I should just accept that they implemented it to stop trying to provide Suggestions & Feedback related to them getting it wrong. I should also stop mentioning that Infiltration's lack of popularity could be reduced through a combination of a slight speed boost, an adjustment to allow it to stack with Stealth (like SS), and making it not suppress during combat. /endsarcasm The Travel Pool adjustments were overall good, but there are still some issues that could be addressed to make things more equitable. Would I have preferred that they followed the data before initial implementation, yes. Does that mean I am going to lay off rather than asking for minor adjustments that could have widespread positive repercussions to all toons using SJ or Fly (or making Infiltration appear as a viable option)? No.

First, apologies on the SJ numbers, they are actually capped at 110 (not 101). Second, I did testing with capped numbers and like other testers found a large disparity between travel times. Third, I did testing with SS, SJ, & Fly at 87.95-88.00 speeds and found that there is very little difference between SJ and Fly and SS is a little slower. Finally, I came up with the following proposed caps: SS - 120.24 (current cap) SJ - 114.23 (95% of SS) Fly - 102.20 (85% of SS) with Afterburner 108.22 (90% of SS) This would still result in SS being the fastest travel power of the three in most situations. However, SJ and Fly would not be as far behind as they currently are. The number agree that my numbers would be more balanced (while maintaining a SS>SJ>Fly core preference).

I think it would be reasonable to ask for Afterburner to be have its usage time limit removed and for the speed cap on Super Jump to be upped to around 110ish. That would improve the balance between the three primary travel powers.

I would prefer that Evasive Maneuvers be moved up (I want to just take Hover and Evasive Maneuvers) but overall, I like the changes. Yes, Flight took a comparative hit compared to what SS and SJ are now capable of, but I enjoy running Hover and Evasive Maneuvers to have old speed cap flight in and out of combat, and am able to use TP to travel... That being said, I actually have builds where I just use Fly as a Winter's Gift mule now...

I support both (separately): Security Breached - Defeat x Security Guards R.I.P. - Defeat x Rogue Island Police (and I would like to add one I previously suggested) OK Boomer - Defeat x Goldbricker Boomers

For overall damage from Range, Gravity is probably the best choice followed by fire. The sets which rely on pets for damage (like Illusion) often require you to be in melee to get your pets to focus the right enemy. The three reasons that Illusion is popular is PA allows a significant amount of damage (but requires you to move into melee to make them useful), two of the three best stealth powers in game (and they stack!), and they use a type of control that is still functional in high level content boss fights (aggro control). However, as this thread is about range damage Illusion Control only has their T1 & T2, which are not the best amongst trollers.

Illusion isn't that good for ranged as you have to get in proximity to the enemy to guide PA for attacking.

I like DP/MA because I never have to click build up!

I have my stealth, travel, and shield toggle binds separated.

You can do /bind x "PowExecToggleOff Combat Jumping$$PowExecToggleOff Stealth...." to do a keybind to do multiple toggleoffs at once. (It occasionally requires hitting the key more than once).

I think the problem with Shinobi is that is actually two powers merged into one. Unlike Field Operative, however, they kinda nerfed one portion. I would prefer if they made the damage buff either like Envenomed Blades from Martial Assault or like Scrapper Crits. In other words, no lockout, straight chance for Tox damage or chance for crit on every attack.

I've been working on a Fire/Ninja build and it seems like very few people are talking about it... interesting... more -res...

Thanks for the heads up. I like that change, it will help with longer fights. I'm working on a build and was thinking of slotting Blinding Powder with: Cacophony CfD(En), Malaise's Illusions CfD(Psi), Cloud Senses CfD(Neg), Coercive Persuasion Cf(Contagious Confusion), and Coercive Persuasion Acc/Rech. Do you think that would be worth it. or should I drop the damage procs and just two slot it with Coercive Persuasion?

I have a toon with Hover+Evasive which gives me around 55 flight in and out of combat. Really smooth, and if I need to travel excessive distances I can hit TP. I really enjoy the lack of speed suppression during combat and just wish I could get a tad bit more speed out of it without sacrificing so much...

Ninja's "build up" is in Shinobi (which provides bonus damage when attacking from stealth).

It would make more sense if the Stealth Cap for trollers was increased, but as-is it works well and does add defense.

You could adjust the taunt/dps balance on PA to make it work. The problem is that not enough devs understand that Illusion Control's method of control is closer to a tanker than a traditional controller. They "distract" the enemy with illusions, which is done mostly through the use of taunt mechanics. That makes the set perfect for Doms as is. Adjustments to PA's Taunt and/or damage can prevent the set from being OP, but for it to work devs have to accept that Illusion Control does not work the same as any other control set and that is okay.

You'd have to limit it to once a day, otherwise you could just grind out merits super fast with minimal effort.

A lot of Control and Buff/Debuff powers need recharge reductions...

I'm working on an Ice/Sonic build that focuses on Holds.

My current build: Zepp.mxd I can rework it without a travel power. I put this together a while ago, so I need to update the build anyway.