oldskool

This is one of those things where @Frostweaver's previous comment on build complexity being a real issue. Folks like @nihilii played around in theorycraft-land for a long time. So seeing potential in powers is probably second nature. To many other people it is not. What am I getting here? You're pointing how your Sentinel has the hardest hitting non-nuke at 315 damage. Mine does more. That's assuming we're talking about Tesla Cage vs Zapp and not Zapping Bolt vs Zapp. The average expected damage of my Zapping Bolt is a mere 321 pts of damage when not considering my Interface. My Tesla Cage has an average expected damage of 560 without Interface contribution. That stems from Musculature pushing ED, my Hybrid granting an always on 10%, the rest of my build considerations, and of course having a few procs there. My Tesla Cage isn't even loaded with full procs. I have 3. Zapp could also take procs since it has access to the Manticore Toxic, but I rarely see folks doing that. This is where slotting of the AT becomes very important and these kinds of illustrations get very difficult. For anyone that thinks "but it should be good on its own", that's fine too. However, just note that when I can put procs in my Blasters snipes; I do that too. Procs maybe an issue all on their own, but for right now they are tools to be used. If a build plan can incorporate more damage in this manner, then why not do it? Sentinel (single target) Electrical Blast looks like the following: Charged Bolts ~ 52 dmg 1 animation (default non-arcanatime) Lightning Bolt ~ 86 dmg 1.67 Zapping Bolt 103 dmg 1 (!!!) animation Tesla Cage 120 dmg 2.17 animation Blaster (single target) EB with fast snipe Zapp looks like: CB ~ 62 dmg 1animation LB ~ 102 dmg 1.67 animation Zapp (fast) ~ 172 1.33 animation Tesla Cage 9 dmg 2.17 animation You can use that info however you like. [Edit Notes]: So I figured I'd come back to the base numbers for a moment. There isn't really much of a conclusion to make out of just the base numbers. Just looking over everything it is pretty clear Zapp carries a lot of the damage. It is pretty clear Sentinel damage is a bit more spread out over several powers. If you could run an ideal chain of just the 3 most powerful attacks, then the Blaster will come out ahead. The Blaster will come out ahead in other situations where they're focusing on improving damage through raw numbers. Their base damage being higher is just friendly to those kinds of modifications. The above doesn't consider Defiance. Defiance can stack for a few seconds and in the ideal chain you're going to get some stacks duplicating. This can add 30%+ more damage and likely higher if you stack it fast enough. This is why Sentinels should favor Alphas like Musculature if you're going to bother seeing who has the bigger epeen. Sentinels still won't close the gap even with Musculature. Narrow it for sure, but rarely fully close it. Since Sentinels can potentially cover more durability, easier, they can sometimes include damage procs. Does a Sentinel heavy proc build always out pace a Blaster? Probably not, but it may not be as wide a gap as it sounds. Does a Blaster incorporating melee hits and dumping powers like Charged Bolts from the routine do more damage? Very like, yes. Its pretty pointless to ignore Blaster secondaries. Are Sentinels behind Blasters in ST ranged damage? Generally, yes. How big a gap that really is depends entirely on the person building that character. Is it as easy to build Sentinel damage upwards on just full sets? No. Definitely not when compared to an AT like a Blaster or Scrapper where their default damage rating is more favorable to increased modification. Now, consider the ramifications of moving Sentinel EB to a 1.125 modifier while still having a general ease of use on proc slotting. That can probably skew balance in ways we're not thinking about. It would help people that are just vehemently opposed to procs, but it will push other builds higher. Just something to think about.

@Frostweaver - definitely hitting some of the finer points that I have felt for a while now. @Zerethon - The quoted statement hits home too. Also, for @Zerethon, and just for funsies, I can't say hitting 50 HP regen on a Regeneration character is all that impressive to me. Perhaps my WP Tanker just makes that jaded with 120 hp/s. 😉 Know what makes that 50 hp/s on Sentinel regen really cool though? That absorb toggle that effectively increases that 50 pts to something higher. Couple that with being out of melee when you want, and Sent Regen is surprisingly durable. An old popular Scrapper combo was Dark/Regen. Dark/Regen on Sentinels is the defensive alternative on steroids. Not because of Life Drain. No, Sentinel Life Drain sucks for healing. Sents get Blackstar though, and that's a whole different level of awesome with /Regen. Not quite a guarantee on all targets, but good enough for most enemies. Know what's kinda impressive too? My Water/Dark regenerates 64.93 hp/s for 10 seconds under Obscure Sustenance. Not quite perma times on the highest benefit, but bursts of that kind of regen is pretty nice. That layers with the heal in Dehydrate I have. None of my other mitigation layers are maxed out. I don't have soft-cap defenses or even hard capped S/L resist. I have a ton of knockdown, AoE stuns, and layered healing. Its also pretty durable. I'm not sure I'd rave too much on Sentinel Dark Armor. I mean I like it, but I'd be lying if I didn't say melee has it a lot easier. Still, it can be a really good set but it is a weird set of problems to solve.

I've thought about it, and I'm leaning against it. Builds can be personal things. I make decisions based on my preferences, and these aren't really considerations I make for broader consumption. I do post builds on occasion, but I generally try to keep these as tailor made ones where I am looking to help someone think about something. I'm the kind of person that believes that if you give a person a fish they will eat for a night, but if you teach a person to fish they will eat for the rest of their life. Posting builds without context is equal to just giving out fish.

My 2 influence: - Building for regeneration is generally a waste of time. This also trends to be true even on the power set called Regeneration. You'd want to stack hit points first then worry if passive regeneration is worth bothering with. Of all of the mitigation layers, regeneration is often regarded as one of the least valuable. The build above does cap hit points, which is great, but it effectively only regenerates around 38 hp per second even with Accolades backing up Energize. Dehydrate will play cover on this since it is a true heal over time and not a regeneration booster. - Energy Aura has potential to softcap the to Smashing, Lethal, Energy, Negative, Fire, and Cold. Three of those are just in the mid-20 range. That can be OK if you plan to lean on purple inspirations. This can be OK if you plan to run difficulty lower than max. You're still vulnerable, somewhat, to being hit and that regeneration isn't going to keep up in harder content. That's also partially due to the resistances being rather 'meh'. I know they can be expensive, but do consider the 3% to all defense global IOs. You can add 6% to everything with those two. You could swap out Tough's IOs with those and hit 30% to your weaker defenses and 37-38 to your stronger ones. I'm not a huge fan of Warmth, and I'd probably dump it for Weave. Taking Weave up to 57% enhancement would push your weaker types to 35-37% ranges with Energy at 44, and Fire/Cold at 42. One small purple IO caps your Smashing/Lethal/Negative when you need it. Either the Miracle or Numina proc in Health would also be an improvement on your end recovery. Energize cuts costs substantially, but I just really like having tons of recovery. I wouldn't bother worrying about enhancing the heal in Dehyrdate. Dehydrate is one of your stronger attacks and it should get enhanced like it. You could move the 4th slot with the Heal IO in Energize into Dehydrate to grab another Decimation recharge bonus if you liked. Think of Dehydrate as a power that does damage with a side dose of healing vs a healing power that does damage. Maybe you already recognize that, but it can be nice info for other readers. Epics are just personal preference. It is my opinion Sentinel builds can do well with or without them. What you have is fine. I'd prefer having more slots in Fire Sword Circle, but what you have right now isn't that bad.

Largely base damage, but I do run 2 damage procs. The base cooldown on Scramble is 20 seconds with a 3 second animation. Even with modified recharge there is still a very strong probability that the Gladiator's Javelin will trigger. Without any procs the damage is over 500 pts. That's considering everything from set bonuses, Assault, Interface, and Alpha slot. [Edit: Forgot to note, I'm also averaging in other effects like the minor contributions of Decimation and native Opportunity. So technically without all bells and whistles rolling the damage is around 477 and the procs bring it to 634. During Aim + Gausian's it's at 722/879. When the stars align and absolutely everything is running the damage potential is pretty ridiculous.]

@Carnifax, this is pretty much how you do it on a bunch of self imposed limitations. Some folks may not like Refractor with loads of procs, but it is really damn effective. I just glanced over the build and there was nothing really glaring to me to change.

You might be underestimating Pistols a bit. Pistols is better overall than Dual Wield or Empty Clips. It has a very fast animation. Your Executioner's Shot can recharge within 3 seconds. This means Pistols + any power with an animation if 1.848 seconds can be used right before ES is available again. That could be Pistols + DW, or Pistols + EC, or Pistols + Bullet Rain, etc. A secret to really making the most out of Pistols is how it can be woven between all of these other attacks. This makes a proc like Decimation chance for Build-Up very attractive. The lowest possible chance to trigger that proc is 5%. You could potentially go fishing for that proc trigger every 2-3 seconds. You're also chasing a lot of +damage bonuses. The build looks pretty solid, don't get me wrong, but +damage set bonuses aren't all that they are cracked up to be. You've stacked quite a bit though which is pretty cool to see all on its own.

Hmm... Yes. I have one because it is a combo I have in my roster. I'm not real sure how useful it would be to you since it is not intended to be a leveling plan. My Psi/SR is one of the few characters I have where I don't wish to exemplar because it is so back loaded on strength. I also don't run travel powers on any of Sentinels. This makes replicating everything I do a bit difficult for those that want quality of life things like that. So let's look at discussing this combo in two phases. The first phase is leveling, and the second would be end game. Actually, I won't spend a lot of time on /SR. I've talked about it before on this forum, and my approach is almost the same every time I run it. So if you read anything I post elsewhere on the topic, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. Leveling phase... Psy Blast: Rule #1 of Sentinel Club. Take everything. I'm serious. When you're new and leveling there is very little point in worrying about what sucks and what doesn't. This isn't just being facetious. The powers I will suggest you skip later on, may make leveling the character a snore fest on the way to 26+. So just take everything as you go and use one of the many respecs you automatically get later to dump the crap powers. That said, you do not need to heavily invest in Mental Blast. Its not that great a power and really doesn't need more than 2-3 total slots, tops. You want some accuracy, and endurance in it while leveling. If you feel you can spare slots for damage, then great. It will feel like it hits as a wet noodle from start to finish and there is no set of magic beans to fix it. Still, having it early on can help close gaps in your attack availability. Take Psychic Scream to contribute to AoE damage early on. You can consider skipping it later. Give Psionic Strike a whirl. Its overall DPA/DPS kinda sucks later on, but it does hit hard for its animation. Things to keep: TK Blast. You have to pick one, and TK Blast is really quite good. Will Domination. Its easily one of the best attacks in the set. Scramble Thoughts. It is my opinion that this power is the whole point of why you play Sentinel Psy Blast at all. It is the highest base damage attack in the entire AT. My average expected damage per hit (partially due to the proc here) is 700 damage. Psi resistance? HAH, eat this... Psionic Tornado. Its your best AoE beside the T9. Psychic Wail. Its your capstone. Take it. Psychic Focus is your temporary buff. Few good reasons to really skip powers like this. For /SR, I've mapped out a basic plan to handle it elsewhere. That won't change here. There is no reason to skip powers in this set other than Elude. Consider taking Elude until you softcap melee/range at least. If you're tight on a budget you may still want that power. /SR isn't that hungry for slots and it really is as straight forward as it looks. Master Brawler is generally the better choice over Practiced Brawler (you can only pick one). Now, for the full build concept of phase 2 I went for the following: Dump Mental Blast, Psychic Scream, and Psionic Strike (I kept it for a while, but its gone now). Replace those conceptually with Mind Probe, Dominate, and Psychic Shockwave. Psionic Mastery Epic Pool is just amazing. Psy Blast + Mastery is like Peanut Butter and Jelly. Those power picks also allow me to take Link Minds. It is very much like a wannabe Fortunata but with the DDR that build wishes it had. My build does abuse procs in Dominate. In fact, it has just one Accuracy/Endurance slot and everything else is a damage proc. This helps add some diversity beyond just psionic damage against resistance late game enemies, but really it adds crunch. Mind Probe is amazing in melee, but I don't always need to be there. TK Blast, Will Dom, Scramble, and Dominate all contribute a lot of single target damage.

I've got one of each AT with DP. It plays a bit differently per AT. So, what do you mean by "which sets allow Dual Pistols to do the most DPS?", exactly. Are you speaking to a build that includes Dual Pistols or a build that focuses on ranged-only Dual Pistols? There is a big difference in how this works on the ATs. I'll just get Sentinels out of the way, real quick. If you want the most possible damage which includes both AoE, and ST, then Sentinels may not be that attractive for you. Frankly, I really enjoy mine, but it mostly shines the brightest against large sacks of health and resistance. Against small hordes of enemies it can pale in comparison to some Corruptor and Blaster combos. Mid's greatly underestimates Sentinel Dual Pistols potential on any targets of EB+. I don't want to over sell it too much, but I can guarantee you it is better than what the planner shows. You need damage procs in order for this to work, but many Sentinel Secondaries will allow for this in a build. A Sentinel Dual Pistols character running damage procs can easily hit 214+ DPS before Incarnates. Once you start working on T4 Musculature (Sentinels need this more than most), Assault Hybrid, and a strong Interface, then it gets better. The ceiling here is generally lower than a Blaster, and potentially some Corruptors (their builds depend a lot on what they're running). So this is a good, but maybe not great option. Still, Sentinels are plenty durable and lean into the whole ranged-only attack option quite well. Defenders. Defenders make the most out of the debuff potential in Dual Pistols, hands down. Piercing Rounds on Defenders offers a -20% resistance debuff which stacks with procs (Dual Pistols can run all 3 available) and anything else from the primary. I run Dark Miasma/Dual Pistols and it is one of the longest running characters I have had. I'll reroll and make alts on occasion. I've stuck with this character. My build does include damage procs and Soul Drain. Its personal DPS really only matters in solo content. On teams I am amplifying everyone else's DPS. So for an indirect DPS increase a Defender is actually very solid. Blasters. Sorry, but I think Dual Pistols all by itself kinda blows on Blasters. I'm not a big fan of ranged only Dual Pistols Blasters. I feel I can do better on either a Sentinel or Corruptor. This is because I tend to lean heavily on procs in Dual Pistols and that strategy is at the heart of where a ranged only build gains noticeable damage. Blasters don't really need procs to push damage, but Dual Pistols has a few issues that does rear its head in Blaster land. Incendiary Ammo + the innately high accuracy of Dual Pistols makes the set better with sustained damage. However, Blasters can be very bursty. They seem to work best when leaning into that. So for a full range build, I'd prefer a primary with Aim + Snipe. Still, a DP/Tactial Arrow or DP/Devices build can be good. You can shoehorn in Build-Up by putting Gaussian's into a to-hit toggle. Procs can be tricky to really leverage while also making sure your defense is high. It can be done, but Sentinels and Defenders do it easier at the sake of general damage. I've tried a few pairs of Dual Pistols on Blasters. I've come back around to Dual Pistols and Martial Combat. It has that John Wick vibe, but there is some synergy in the pair. For me, a Dual Pistols Blaster works very well as a hybrid Blapper. I use a lot of fast animating and recharging attacks between Dual Pistols and Martial to funnel Defiance buffs into Eagles Claw. Eagles Claw in turn buffs all my other damage by 16% for several seconds. That is on top of Reach for the Limit and the potential for Gaussians to trigger (that's more likely on teams for me than solo though). Still, this approach leans heavily on just Pistols and Executioner's Shot to be weaved with Storm Kick and Eagles Claw. For AoE, I have a lot of sphere options but these are all best used in melee. Not a safe combo to play at all levels, but at 50 it works very well. Blaster's making use of full sets for their bonuses take the lowest possible hit in Dual Pistols damage. Corruptors. Corruptors have a ton of potential. One thing that works really well on them is their general damage plus buff/debuff mods put Swap Ammo in a middle of the road realm. Piercing Rounds brings a big resistance debuff on Defenders. It is slightly less on Corruptors (-15%) but still higher than either Sentinels or Blasters (-9.6%). Note that, I devalue Piercing Rounds on Sentinels and Blasters. I've found Incendiary Ammo running 24/7 to be the best approach and both of those ATs have better choices than Piercing Rounds for general damage dealing. Piercing Rounds has its uses, but I find myself skipping it a lot on those ATs. Corruptors and Defenders though can make more use out of it which can be nice. So Corruptors can be a fun options for really exploring what Swap Ammo has to offer, but that isn't really a just DPS comment. Corruptor secondaries like Kinetics can absolutely give it a lot of potential. Fulcrum Shift can cap your damage easily which means full set bonuses may not be what you want in some of your attacks. Thankfully, Executioner's Shot and Suppressive Fire can easily take a full load out of procs. Depending on what procs you go with that could be anywhere from 3 to 6 with other utility procs also possibilities (Analyze Weakness, Force Feedback, Achilles' Heel, etc...). Kinetics can be light enough on some sets that you can do a lot with slotting. You'd really want Tactics to cover your to-hit needs but Executioner's Shot has a higher than normal accuracy modifier. With Siphon Speed stacking, Hasten, and other global bonuses your recharge is pretty good. Is this going to out damage a Blaster? At pure range it probably will, but it isn't as clear cut against some Blappers. Will it out damage a Sentinel? For AoE, yes when talking max targets. For single-target, it depends if you're pushing all procs or not and also what kind of enemy we're talking. So it is possible in the broadest possible terms, but there is room for maybes. I originally created a DP/Dark character but decided I wanted to push higher debuffing so rerolled as a Defender. That build original ran procs (the Defender absolutely does) and Soul Drain. Tar Patch + Soul Drain + Hail of Bullets with Fury of the Gladiator is nothing to sneeze at. After I rerolled into a Defender, I wanted to make a new Corr. So I made Dual Pistols and Traps. That's a fun pair too and the wide range of debuffs make it stronger in practice than it looks on paper. Can it out DPS things? By itself running solo, oh hell yes. Debuffs are worth their weight in gold for making tough content faster to complete. On faster teams, its more 'meh'. Still fun, but maybe not as good as some other combos. So... That's a big wall of text, which I tend to do a lot, but hopefully is somewhat enlightening for some. Who's the real winner here? Well, it is hard to beat a Blaster for just pure simplicity of building plus very consistent damage. Their overall ranged only options are OK but can really shine with mixed melee. Corruptors can potentially be better at pure range DPS with Dual Pistols than all the other ATs, but this is assuming an AWFUL lot of build choices. Corruptors can be very powerful, but that power is not a guarantee. Sentinels can be very good runners up to either of these ATs within single target, but they may not be what you're looking for. Defenders are just the best choice for general team play where you're amplifying everyone else's damage vs your own.

You are a pillar of mental fortitude then.

This kind of topic also begs the question... What do you mean by farming? That may sound like I'm being dense, but hear me out for a second. There are purpose built farm characters, purpose built PvP characters, and then there is everything else. When it comes down to being able to both PvE effectively, and ALSO step into a farm, the Tanker can do just fine. The difference between a purpose built farmer and a generalist is time. If you're not too concerned with how fast you're downing a farm map, then you can really just apply any AT/character that is capable of surviving it. I have a purpose built Brute that lives only in AE. She's stepped into Dark Astoria a few times but generally she just exists to power level other characters. Making money is just a side effect of my incurable alt-itis. I have a Dark Armor/Titan Weapons Tanker that is surprisingly effective in farms. That character's defenses and resistances are pretty much the same to anything but Toxic. So it really doesn't matter what content it does. Its slower, but it can easily survive S/L or Fire farms. Doesn't matter. My primary Tanker is WP/SS. Hell, even that can run farms. That character is hard to take down and it chain casts Knockout Blow -> Footstomp -> Cross Punch. There was a time last year I ran a Trick Arrow/Archery Defender through some AE content for the purpose of just collecting cash. In other words, I'll potentially farm on any character that I happen to log into with some that just aren't capable of it at all. Farming, generally, is all about downing some specialized content over and over as fast as possible for the most possible influence. That's the usual way to do it. That's not the only way to do it. So if efficiency is something you can give up, then this question has a lot more answers to it.

It wasn't wrong per one of the last posts by CP stating Stalkers are king of ST damage. TW is an outlier. It isn't representative of all Scrapper builds nor is it representative of Scrapper potential. It is merely is representative of TW/* potential. The kind of metrics that create statements like "Stalkers are top on ST" come from averaging out data from logs compiling a wide range of player action. You're both right, but the context is important. When discussing broad strokes of DPS no one should assume outliers are the prime point of comparison (and that's not really directed at you DrBuzzard, I think you get it). On average, most players do not optimize their characters. So it should stand to reason that the average Stalker build will likely do more ST damage than the average Scrapper build. The Stalker ATOs just make this very easy to do even at the non-superior versions. Not much stands up to a truly pimped out TW/Bio Scrapper, but that probably won't be forever either.

Its a circle of life... and thought. I know at one point I had thrown out the idea that is pretty much similar to most. That was to make Opportunity a separate click thing and raise the base damage slightly. The reason why I started on critical hits as an idea is all due to the ideas of making Sentinel damage match something. I've gotten awfully long winded as to why some kind of additional filler for the inherent would be necessary to increase Sentinel damage. It should be obvious, but in case it is not, that specific change would be aimed at non-procs builds. Right now, if anyone cared to do it, a proc heavy build can push DPS dealt within various power combos upward. Most folks participating in this thread know this. The concerns about the AT standing on its own without procs is valid. I hear you folks, and that concern does have merit. Since this thread is now 9 pages and starting to cycle away from bickering (which is great!) I can throw around my other original thoughts. 😁 I think most folks agree that Opportunity up time is an issue. Doesn't really matter if it is 40% up time or 60%+ up time. The fact it isn't available as frequently as other passive bonuses is a problem. It is largely a problem in this respect because it doesn't carry the same impact (in some eyes) as Domination can. Opportunity's longer up time can be seen easily while leveling. A build just doesn't have the recharge to really chain attacks fast enough to build meter in under 15 seconds. Some may, in bursts, but generally speaking this is unlikely. The Sentinel ATO isn't a great help to this issue either. The basic attuned version is PPM 1. Yuk. Its not exactly going to fix this problem. If players build into more recharge, then they can potentially shorten their attack chains substantially. This does have an impact on Opportunity up time. That should probably change to be more flexible. What's Opportunity do though? Where is some room for improvement, right? Most know by now that Opportunity has multiple parts. Most know that Opportunity imposes a very minor set of debuffs the moment a successful hit lands and it is trivial to maintain. Most know that Opportunity also builds up to a bigger event. We all seem to know that part of the event is a -20% resistance debuff. There is also a very high chance that the debuff parts are going to be rolled into general AT damage scalars. What about the buff parts though? It has been a long time since Sunsette wrote about Offensive and so I decided to observe it a bit myself. Offensive absolutely creates an additional hit of damage that is based on a percentage of the parent power's base damage. That exact percentage does not seem to be universal. The T1 I used appeared to be creating a new damage effect that was around 15% of the base power. My T3 and T4 seemed to have around 21%. The exact number may be a bit higher since the targets hit had some resistance, about 20-25% (it wasn't a Pylon). So the numbers are rough estimates since Opportunity innately lowers any resistance even if slightly. The damage numbers below are taken from my combat log so they're hard numbers vs exact percentages like 21% of X power. However X power did consistently do Y damage, and that damage did increase as the target's resistance went down (thanks Achilles' Heel). Just because I'm being nitpicky; there are two chains I can run. One of them is more realistic to what I actually do, but another is within the realm of possibility of my build. Chain #1 is T4 - T1 - T3 - T1. Chain #2 T4 - T3 - T1. Chain #1 runs 6.072 seconds and the other runs 4.884 seconds. I can run the second with a minor gap while Ageless is down. I don't often run Ageless, but I could since the character has more than one Destiny (benefits of playing it for a year I guess). The game does seem to register activation times trigger before an effect ends and includes it within a window. This was experimented on in the Defender forums relating to the Decimation Build-Up proc. Let's just assume it for a moment. I can confirm my own reflexes aren't precision like a machines so I cannot actually pull it off. I'm just assuming it is possible and that can be a mistake. So note that. Chain #1 becomes T4 -> T1 -> T3 -> T1 -> T4 -> T1 -> T3 -> T1 -> T4 -> T1 (Effect ends). T4 adds 22 pts of damage. T3 adds 18 pts of damage. T1 adds 8 pts of damage. Numbers rounded. No target struck with the -20%. I fired it at a rando target and then switched against a non-debuffed enemy. I had to pray that Achilles' Heel didn't fire (didn't want to remove it even for the sake of Science!). That's 142 damage added over the span of 15 seconds. The procs I run in the T4 and T3 are both purple quality. They're not exactly guaranteed to go off, but their expected average is 170 damage. Its possible the final T1 can't be trigger thus missing out on 8 damage for a new total of 134. Chain #2 can happen 3 times in the span of 14.652 seconds. If you can squeeze out another T4 right before 15 seconds ends, then it would look like: T4 - T3 - T1 - repeat x 3 -> T4 (effect ended just after the power was queued). That's 166 damage in the same span. Recharge helps. If the effect end and activation queue didn't matter, then the damage would be 144. Only a minor improvement. 😞 The damage contribution of the current Offensive Opportunity is very minor. Its overall damage seemed to contribute damage roughly on par with adding a PPM 3.5 proc into the whole routine. The faster one can bring Opportunity back up, the better this damage gets, but even then it isn't that much as Sentinel base damage isn't that high. Health returned per hit was something like 22 health and roughly 4 end with Defensive Opportunity. The effects are obviously so slight that having these two combined won't break the game at all. Even pushing the base AT scalar up to 1.125 isn't a real threat to damage with Offensive adding only 15 to 20~ percent base damage. Defiance can stack higher and adds on top of existing damage vs being a separate check susceptible to resistance on its own. All of this assumes that the broader player base is OK with Sentinels doing slightly less overall damage even under these conditions. I don't see Sentinels really eclipsing any other ATs with these changes. For the record, I also don't think they *need* to either. Making the current Offensive Opportunity more consistent would be a nice benefit. If the meter function built up its damage, then perhaps that is a worthwhile alternative to consider. So perhaps Offensive and Defensive buffs are on all the time, and the meter builds their effect up like Fury. Either the meter could work like Fury and stay high during combat or it could ebb and flow. If the damage is too spiky, then it is not doing what it should. Anyway, enough from me for now. This is already too long.

Depending on the day of the week any given power set is "Schrodinger's Power Set". It is both completely unplayable, and playable until someone observes otherwise. Feel free to insert whatever powers or ATs into that box as you like. Rinse, repeat.

This person @Zerethon. I like them. You may get some flack for some of what you wrote, but I think the sentiment is what counts. It is similar to how I feel. 😉

Word.

Agreed. This is why I often build Sentinels in the way I do. I try to squeeze more out of their single-target damage than I do lamenting lower target caps on AoE. I don't play the AT like a wannabe ranged-only Blaster. I play it more like a Scrapper that doesn't need to be hit by melee. It works for me. I'd like to be clear on something though. For some reason, I feel like this needs to be stated. I've never made one of these threads. I'm actually pretty happy with my Sentinels just the way they are. I'm very aware that some of my other characters can do more damage, but that doesn't change the fact I'm generally happy with what I have. I fully recognize that other people want the AT to be "fixed". I both enjoy my Sentinels, but also empathize with their thoughts. The only reason why I even bothered to bring up suggestions about change of the mechanic in the first place is because there is an outcry for it. The devs have heard it and they plan to address it. The squeaky wheels will get their grease. Folks want Opportunity to be something else. If it has to change, so be it. However, if folks think that pushing the base damage scalar from 0.95 to 1.0 or even 1.125 is going to somehow get them into the 300+ DPS club overnight, then they are delusional.

For me, it is yes to both. Eagles Claw is taken to both house a set and it gets used. I guess regularly has a loose definition in how I use much of the kit though. Storm Kick is a really strong power. I tend to forget its bleed component on Blasters which can give it a bit of an edge, but both powers are good for different reasons. EC has a few things going for it. First off, the high base damage is a key component of why I have it. Secondly, it can trigger procs rather well, and finally its Defiance component is fairly large. That last bit is just icing on the cake though. I'd use it regardless for the animation alone. Gameplay with DP/MC for me has a number of variables. I have a lot of attacks and they were selected for a variety of situations. I mean, why else would one play a Blaster if it weren't for damage variety? Anyway, I use Pistols, Dual Wield, and Executioner's Shot if I need to be fully at range. While I can do this, this is not the ideal place for me. I want to be kicking things in the face. Executioner's Shot is my highest priority attack. Its a fast animating attack, it recharges in just over 3 seconds for me, and it also carries a Force Feedback: Recharge. It has so many good things going for it, that I want to use it no matter the range. Pistols and Storm Kick make up the quick animating/recharge options as fillers in close quarters. These get a lot of use. However, against tougher targets my Eagles Claw can help punch higher weight classes. All of the Defiance I have built up before EC also buffs its base damage which isn't anything to sneeze at. Generally speaking though, I'd prefer to just AoE everything into oblivion and just clean up what ever is left. That's probably going to be a target that can handle getting a jump kick to the face.

Ditto. I tend to do my best to build my characters that can handle hard content solo, but I find that playing it that way to be a real drag. Generally when I'm shooting to hit +4/x8 difficulties it is more about keeping up with teams. If I can handle +4/x8 on my own, then there is very little a team can throw that I won't contribute something to. At least that is how I try to rationalize my behavior.

This is the best compliment I could get. Sometimes it may not seem like it, but I really don't view my own ideas as gospel. And this is a fair criticism. Thankfully for everyone that reads this, I don't talk to the developers. For all I know, they have no idea I exist and may have never read a word I've written. So any ideas I throw around are really just that. Ideas tossed at the wall. I have 0 expectations that anything I think should happen will actually happen. 😉 The only thing that seems very likely to happen is that Opportunity as we know it is going to change. Target caps will likely not change. Both of these things have been stated before, and those aren't my words.

A melee-ish Blaster can leverage this. At least, that is the approach I have for my own Dual Pistols and Martial Combat character. Dual Pistols gets me a PBAoE T9 (Hail of Bullets), and a sphere AoE (Bullet Rain). Then, on the melee side I have teleport that AoE's and another PBAoE in Dragon's Tail. I'm less interested in using Empty Clips since it is a power that doesn't hit targets behind me, and the entire point is try to get in the mix. Now, that's a risky way to play prior to 50, but it can be done. It should get safer the more you invest into the character, but there is always some risk. I say so what though. The debt badges do not collect themselves. Anyway, so Blapping is one way to just get in the mix and get dirty. You could also go with some melee AT sets that are a bit more AoE focused. Its not quite the same as making use of sphere attacks, but it gets you close to the action. So sets like Spines, or Staff for instance will get you up close and personal even hitting things behind you. For Spines in particular, this can work well with its toggle and a toggle from a second (Fiery Aura, Dark, even Bio). The burst attack, while a true PBAoE, kinda sucks so you'll see folks saying NOOOOOO. I use it, but use it sparingly. For a different approach, I'm not afraid of jumping into PBAoE range on a Rad/Rad Defender. You do get a PBAoE attack AND you can spread the love on debuffs just right there. I mean, yeah, you could do it at range, but where is the fun in that? Dominators can also be an absolutely blast when played in this kind of manner. The Dom approach is control all the things. Then you go in and "arrest" enemies that are totally helpless. The fun factor goes up by 9000 points if you punch them in the face. Maybe not pure PBAoE style, but some sets aren't bad it.

To the underlined, it most certainly does not. Not only does that list assume 500% recharge, it doesn't use any enhancements at all. Every chain is calculated off base damage and some of the "optimal chains" seem completely arbitrary. The Water Blast chain incorporates Aqua Bolt, a power that is generally regarded as a skip option, and it assumes Water Jet's enhanced values. It doesn't do that once, but it does it twice in the same chain which is, to be blunt, impossible. Some of those attack chains assume the use of a T9 at the start and run a sequence until available. Some don't go that far. Some don't even add the T9 at all. That list has its uses, and you note that, but for others that haven't looked at that sheet need to know it should be taken with a heavy amount of salt. A single grain just won't do.

Electric Affinity should be there if you're running the most current version. Have you visited here: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/forum/74-forum/ in a while? I'm not sure how you built DP on a Blaster, but you could potentially do things differently on a Corr. Depends on just how much you like certain secondary effects or powers. Defiance could influence a choice on some powers within a Blaster (i.e., Piercing Rounds contributing more damage bonus) that consideration doesn't exist here. I tend to consider the following powers must haves: Pistols Executioner's Shot Swap Ammo Bullet Rain Hail of Bullets Everything else depends on where I see the build going.

TL;DR: This is long, sorry. This isn't a beatdown session against anyone either. This is just about perspective. Here's the deal. Many months ago when another one of these threads sprouted elsewhere (I think in "Suggestions") one of the devs here chimed in. That is where the idea of "ranged Scrapper" comes from. Furthermore, it was stated that Sentinels will get looked at sometime in the future. It is also very likely Opportunity is going to go bye bye as it currently exists. This in turn spawns long discussions about what could be as well as comparisons to what is currently the inherent mechanic. So from a dev perspective, Sentinels should be more like a ranged Scrapper. That would suggest more like a non-babysit team contributor that does damage albeit largely at range vs being largely in melee. So making them lone wolf opportunists isn't necessarily outside the realm of possibility. HOWEVER, one of the initial ideas floated was that the Sentinel fulfill a kind of "watcher/spotter" role having some kind of group buff. That buff initially tossed around had to do with team accuracy/to-hit. I really doubt this is going to happen, but who knows? So you may very well get your tactical support gimmick. So when the idea of "How to change the inherent" comes up it has me consider that the current implementation of Opportunity is probably going to go away. That means the current -res is likely to just get replaced by something else. Does that suck for me? Yes, yes it does at least potentially. If it goes as well as it did for Tankers, then I think I'd be pretty happy. Is it better for the community? It seems very much like it could be given that I am largely out numbered by those that scream to the heavens about how much they seem to loathe the AT as it is (you can step outside the Sentinel subforum to see that). The Tanker buffs recently showcased a series of thought by the HC devs. That is one where having an inherent that imposes a -resistance debuff shouldn't exist. The team doesn't seem that enthusiastic about allowing those kinds of things to exist beyond certain procs and support sets (select primaries not withstanding). What happened with Tankers is that the general damage that Bruising used to provide was rolled into the AT itself. This turned out to be a net gain for most, if not all, builds. So, it stands to reason that if the Sentinel absorbs X percentage of -resistance effectiveness into its core AT damage modifier then its general damage will increase. This sounds great on paper. Depending on how high that AT mod goes, it may not be enough. Hell, even that change alone will likely never be enough for some folks. Now, I'll see if I can explain why as best as I can. Sentinels have modified range set AoE powers. These powers within the other ATs have target caps of 10 for cones and 16 for spheres. Sentinels cap at 6 for cones and 10 for spheres. There are some outlier sets like Sonic Blast where all the cones hit 10 or Water Blast's Steam Spray that hits 10 or other rare powers that may hit something else. The trend of 6 and 10 holds for most of the AT. Right now, I can log in and stare directly at a Blaster that does 243 enhanced damage with a 16 target cap sphere and a Sentinel that does 210 enhanced damage with a 10 target cap sphere (same power, different ATs). Against 10 targets the total damage dealt is going to be in favor of the Blaster, but not isn't that huge a gulf. Even with Defiance pushing more base damage, we're not looking at anything that is as drastic as some claim. That is... until you run in full groups where the possibility of facing off against 16+ targets becomes more common. Then the Blaster is suddenly hitting 60% more targets, at a high base scalar, includes an escalating damage buff that is consistent, and has potential access to Build-Up in the secondary. Sentinels aren't going to catch up to that with a core damage buff. (Note: I'm not sure they even should catch up. It just happens to be one of the biggest points of argument on Sentinel effectiveness... target caps. The lack of hitting all the things makes Sentinels less effective and therefore either less fun or outright useless to some.) There is no implementation of any kind of non-DPS inherent that is going to close that gap. We're talking about a Blaster moving from doing over 2K damage in that one power to doing over 3K damage. That's just (ranged) spheres. (Ranged) Cones can potentially be just as bad. Still, when looking at this through a really narrow lens (which is almost all of these discussions) one can total up all potential damage dealt by a Blaster in AoE vs Sentinel in AoE showing the Blaster is going to come out FAR ahead. That's never going to change with just a damage buff unless the Sentinel's damage buff is so high that it exceeds a Blaster's per target damage. That would be a horrible decision for game balance though. It would make Sentinels monsters that could potentially eclipse several ATs in that realm. Single target. Blaster/Corruptors/Defenders gained a lot from the fast snipe changes. Dominators did too by extension, but their attack routines aren't as easy to make side by side comparisons with. Any Scrappers or Stalkers incorporating Moonbeam/Zapp made out like bandits too, but they already did in some cases. Anyway, snipes change things. Even if we brought Sentinel's core AT modifier right up to that of the Blaster (1.125) the Blaster still has an edge. That is because there are no real apples to apples ST rotation comparisons between Sentinels and Blasters beyond Water Blast. Sentinel sets that did not have a winner in the "lacks a snipe" set will still be behind their Blaster counterpart. That's not just because of Defiance (though it is a contributor to that), but also has a lot to do with the innate damage scaling of snipes. What I'm getting at is this. If Sentinels only get a baseline damage increase to their AT modifier, and Opportunity gets replaced by a non-DPS inherent, there is a real good chance threads like this pop up again. The baseline damage mod is not the only issue at play. It is target caps, it is certain power DPA ratings, and it also involves a lot of player bias. The last one is hard, if not impossible, to change, but the others could be carefully addressed. Anyway, this is why I have beat the drum of adding critical hits. Its not because I want something lazy. It is not because I want Sentinels to be uninteresting. It is for the following reasons: 1) It is a fairly simple way of improving general damage contribution without allowing core DPA mechanics and design to get out of control. [There is a dev thread about how new powers are created. Pushing baseline AT damage modifiers higher and higher could cause some serious unintended consequences for future powers. So I keep it in mind.] 2) It is a change that makes the Sentinel more accessible. It would remove the need for the inherent to be linked to any specific power. 3) No other ranged using sets have criticals from 100% health to 0. Corruptor Scourge is a different animal and its overall contribution is balanced against Defender Vigilance. One is a more team-oriented damage buff (Scourge), and the other a more solo-oriented damage buff (Vigilance). 4) Critical hits seems like a simple and fair compromise for a team that is hosting this for free. I've been very vocal, for quite some time now, that while I am generally happy with my Sentinels I am still OK with any changes that make the broader community happier with it. I do not think a base damage increase + non-DPS related inherent is going to move the needle. I do not think many people truly appreciate just how much damage even a 50% up time on a 20% resistance debuff effect actually brings in real play (Edit: I also recognize there is a very fine line from overstating this effect. So I keep my flame resistant underpants on.). People cannot immediately see its effects and therefore it gets ignored. That's how human perception works. Critical hits, despite seeming to be uninspired, would allow for the AT to have a very minor baseline damage improvement. It could either remain at its current 0.95 or shift up to 1.0. The critical hit rate could be throttled down to whatever Scrappers have. It doesn't need to be like the Stalker in this regard. The reason why I have that concern is due to Sentinel T9 powers. Sentinels with Aim + a critical T9 could do pretty extreme damage. Still, given that most Sentinel T9's do less than a Blaster's, this wouldn't be too big a deal as long as the overall base damage doesn't go too far from where it is. [Edit: There has been great contributions from other posters bringing up some Scrapper AoEs on shorter cooldowns that do substantial damage within the time frame of a Sent T9 cooldown. So again, Sentinels completely wiping the floor against max targets in one power can be a potential concern depending on how it was implemented. This is also why I fundamentally hate Sentinel vs Blaster circle jerk sessions. They completely ignore Scrappers and it also trends toward ignoring the conceptual ideal of what Sentinels were supposed to be.] As to the second quote... Is Brute damage equal to a Scrapper at full Fury? Generally, no. Brutes even at full Fury do have substantial sustained damage, but Scrapper critical hits create bursts. Even without the critical hits Scrappers still have a higher base damage which should give them an advantage. Now, that isn't to say there aren't going to be variances between the ATs. Primaries are not created equal. So a Staff Fighting Scrapper may do less ST than a Brute running War Mace. The individual player builds also create an X factor. Still, generally a Scrapper should be doing more (even if slightly) on average. [Edit: P.S., should and actually do are different things. 😉] Edit P.S.S. I know I brought up Blasters a lot here. I can't express in words how much I despise that comparison game. Beyond the statement that Sentinels were conceptually ranged Scrappers, there is no other real metric point for comparison. There hasn't been any stated "DPS ATs are supposed to 300 DPS or that DPS ATs are supposed to 200 DPS". We've seen "Titan Weapons is going to get looked at" and many of those builds are capable of pushing 400 DPS. I've seen commentary by the devs that Stalkers are the highest damage single target AT right now. Many of them can easily hit 300 DPS. The old forums used to praise numbers like 180-200. So it is very possible that Sentinel DPS is just fine and that the power creep elsewhere is skewing whatever baseline the devs want. Frankly, we don't know.

The perception of "broken" damage is very real. I think the severity of the issue differs among users, and that is at the heart of the argument. There are and always have been very valid criticisms of the AT. There are very valid criticisms of the IO system and how it can be used to expand damage. Despite what some may think of me personally, I've never felt any different. I do get tired of hyperbole very quickly and these kinds of threads can get awfully heated. That doesn't mean I ever stopped recognizing a disparity or stopped respecting others views. My take is just different, and my perception of how deep the problem is isn't as large as some others. It is probably my own personal failure to fully capture that in these kinds of discussions over time, but it is something I have always felt. Boosting the damage of the Sentinel would be meaningful because it puts them into the same realm as other damage dealers. Whether or not that is interesting is something entirely different. Is Scrapper or Stalker critical hits interesting? Is Defiance interesting? Is Fury interesting? Maybe for some folks any one of those are interesting. To me, they are just mechanics that get used in a game that has a shallow series of options. If the Sentinel isn't interesting to anyone right now, that can be potentially attributed to its damage reputation. Will it be more interesting if it gets a buff? That's far too subjective to create any meaningful conclusions.