oldskool

Um, people have. Hell, it is one of the most popular versions of "beat the dead horse" that exists on these forums. I've said it a few times in this thread, and elsewhere. Comparing Blaster primaries, or any primary to primary, in a vacuum is a near worthless exercise. Despite what the horrible character creator leads people to think, Blasters are not, and never have been, a pure ranged DPS class. It's goal was to do "damage". It is supposed to be the master of damage. It can engage at range, it can do lots of AoE, and/or it can engage in melee. The secondaries of the Blaster contribute just as much to their overall potential as their primary. To compare Blaster range primaries is to assume the vast majority of those players are running */Devices or */TA while simultaneously ignoring all other powers within those particular sets (i.e., Taser, Caltrops, Glue Arrow, etc.). Sentinels really don't have that much in common with Blasters besides some powers within their primaries. However, Sentinels play very differently. That's due to both the secondary being defense AND the changes made to the blast sets themselves.

I run Lancer Shot with 3x Thunderstrikes, Apocalypse Proc, PvP proc, Decimation Proc. Piercing Beam 4x Positron's Blast (Acc/Dmg, Acc/Dmg/End, Dmg/End, Proc), Bombardment Proc, PvP proc (why not?). Disintegrate runs the other 5 pcs of Apocalypse. I currently have a PvP Toxic proc there. Its average expect damage is 29.99. I could live without it, but I don't want a respec for that one slot. Refractor is moving to 3x Positron (Acc/Dmg/End, Acc/Dmg, Proc), Bombardment, Annihilation, Achilles' Heel. That keeps 94.48% accuracy for me even against +4's. The 4x Positron helps in Piercing. Anyway, the average damage of my Lancer Shot is in the realm of 445 dmg. Piercing Beam is at 410. These are the backbone of the damage routine. Refractor Beam carrying both -res procs that could trigger 1/3 of the time seems like a sound plan. I have far less recharge than you do (running Invulnerability atm) and I'm not reliant on Dominate. I just run the core powers as I don't care for weapons magically appearing with the no redraw (and regular redraw is a turn off). Adding any of the Epic powers would push my DPS higher, but I'm not that concerned about it. Super Reflexes would tighten up my recharge a lot due to Quickness, but as it is my Piercing Beam is available every 5.41 seconds which is exactly where I want it.

Thanks, I think.

Generally I don't care. I also feel that way about several other ATs because the characters that exist within those domains aren't built to give a flip about their inherent. Opportunity only really shines, right now, when a target is going to live long enough for it to matter. That's generally a limited list of enemies like AVs/GMs. When the cross hairs do go off, then I know that everyone is doing more damage. That's nice, but... I could be happy with something else too. My Stalkers, Scrappers, and Brutes are all more reliant on the ATOs that bolster their inherent than the inherent themselves. Stalkers and Scrappers get even more reliable criticals plus Stalkers get near on-demand Build-Up. Brutes can help push their Fury building to more predictable levels, at least mine do. Dominators have it kinda flashy, and their builds have been very reliant on perma-dom for a long time. So it matters a lot there. However, I don't count on Containment with my Controller. I don't count on Scourge on my Corrs, or Vigilance on my Defender. Hell, I rarely build around Bodyguard on my Masterminds. I make use of it, but it isn't something I go out of my way for either. Then again, my MM isn't a "tankermind". Not all ATs are that reliant on their inherent power. I think that's OK. Inherents are just there working in the background for most of the ATs. I think that's more of the core issue for a lot of folks, myself included, and given the nature of Opportunity being so different tends to rub folks the wrong way. You've got some interesting ideas about how Opportunity could work so keep on fighting the good fight. For me personally, I couldn't care any less about it.

Big edit since I was thinking out loud. Refractor Beam isn't as reliable on proc triggering as Mid's suggests. It suggests it is 90% chance to fire without recharge, but it has an area factor like a sphere so it is much lower. Still, Refractor Beam is worth considering as a part of both an AoE and ST routine. Refractor Beam can hold both Annihilation and Achilles' Heel resistance debuff options while also incorporating damage procs and/or Force Feedback's recharge. So with some of this new found thought, I'm going to switch around the enhancements in my current Refractor Beam and Piercing Beam. PB's chance for damage is actually pretty good for a cone and Refractor becomes a really good AoE debuffer. Between the two, that's a lot of potential -resistance (general opportunity, activated opportunity, Annihilation, Achilles' Heel, and Piercing Beam... holy crap). Then, on top of all of that goodness, Single Shot can debuff some regen. Its a lot of potential damage that isn't well reflected in the planner. So, right now I'll stick with my core routine of Disintegrate -> Lancer -> Piercing Beam -> [options]. The Option block can be Refractor Beam for debuffs/AoE/faster meter build -> Single Shot OR just Single Shot since it is repeatable. I originally went into a lot of other possible combinations including Charged Shot. After digging into all the options a bit more, Beam Rifle turns out to be more flexible than I original thought, and I already found it flexible.

I had a Dark/Regen for a while, and I used that pairing on the Test server too for a long time. It was one of my go-to combos for stress testing early on. I've run it in +4/x8 with as little as 16 defense to melee/range/AoE. So pushing high defense is sort of a measure of taste and just how you play the combo. I favor trying to get 160%+ global recharge on /Regen or /Bio. Actually, I try to do that on most characters, but I tend to feel it is more important on those two due to reactive mitigation powers. So there is a lot of YMMV on Sentinel Regen when it comes to defense stacking. I'd prefer to proc out the attacks and end things faster than worry about extending battles of attrition.

I'll chime in with @Frostweaver. Ranking the primary sets by themselves is a nearly worthless endeavor. The reason why I say nearly and not completely, is because there is some slight value in reviewing the potential on each set. So ranking primaries has the following problems: What are the parameters of comparison? -- No power set works in a vacuum. Period, full stop. This is true across every AT. Even seemingly passive secondary defense sets may be able to open doors for improving damage where another set can't or won't. There just isn't a really good way to say 1, 2, 3, 4, ,5, etc... and have it seriously hold any weight. Why? Well, what use is it if I told you Sentinel Fire Blast does 180 DPS, and Sentinel Electrical Blast does 182 DPS? How does this help you when you then pair those sets with X, Y, or Z defensive set? What happens when you, the player, end up with a build using Electrical Blast averaging out 120 DPS, but mine does 270? The Sentinel subforum does have a spreadsheet in there about ranking primaries. The author had to use certain assumptions and apply them universally. Reality check, most players don't optimize to the Nth degree. So those results can be completely misleading. Often times, questions of "what's best" has the hidden "I don't want to waste my time playing a gimp character" motivation. That's a fair concern. Most, almost all really, of the Sentinel sets were retooled from their Corruptor/Defender/Blaster cousins. While there are winners and losers, most of the sets are fairly competitive with one another when taken in the context of the archetype itself. That's not too horrible a place to be and means you can make something fairly decent out of just about any primary/secondary combo. Again, some sets don't play nicely with others or some sets have certain struggles. I've written a lot about in the Sentinel subforum. With a little bit of searching there, you can find a lot of answers. Now, ranking Corruptors against primary vs primary starts running into the exact same issues. There are Corruptor secondaries fully capable of carrying the damage of the AT by themselves. Storm is, potentially, a very powerful secondary on Corruptors and even better on Defenders since they get primary modifiers. Sets like Kinetics can push the damage of a Corruptor very high. You can do that with several sets. Sure, ideally Fire Blast on Corruptors may be the best choice for just raw damage with Kinetics, but that doesn't mean all of sudden other primaries gain no benefit. TL;DR: Vacuum comparisons have far too many variables to draw any worthwhile conclusions. A character's general effectiveness is in how intelligently crafted your build is. Just playing the FoTM power sets doesn't necessarily guarantee you the most powerful character. In some ATs it can, but in Sentinels you can just as easily break a good power combo as you could turn around some lackluster pairings.

All of this just needs to be emphasized.

The original big red cheese was largely a Superman clone without the heat vision or frost breath. His ability of strength, durability, stamina, speed, and flight were basically the same. He also had superior intelligence and wisdom. The original Captain Marvel/Captain Thunder, did not hurl lightning bolts as the Mu epics would suggest. The newer version, post New-52, can as the new incarnation of the wizard Shazam. The original call to Zeus, through the shout of Shazam, had the lightning bolt directed at Billy/Captain Marvels current location. This was later changed by writers into an offensive maneuver where Billy could dodge the bolt and allow the mystic blast to hit someone else. Captain Marvel used this against Superman more than once.

I don't think you really missed anything. I'd probably drop one of the Blistering Colds in Blinding Feint for Gaussian's Build-Up proc. It'll be a nice little damage boosting surprise when it goes off. You don't really need the extra fire/cold defense from the full bonus anyway.

It is up to you; It's your character. Usually when I speak about damage potential, I'm talking about adding in procs. Electrical Blast can make use there in Tesla Cage, but you seem wary of going too far from sets for defense. That's OK, and this pairing doesn't need to go too nuts over it anyway. So I won't go too far down that rabbit hole. Still, think of damage potential via frankenslotting IOs as being on one end of a seesaw and full defensive benefits being on the other. When you start to add more of one of those options the of the end is going to have fewer options. My initial response wasn't really intended for you to completely dump Lightning Field if you wanted it in favor of Short Circuit. It was just more of a statement to engage in discussion. These are just some of the ways I may approach this build. You could mix and match whatever you like. I generally do not use any travel powers and I don't ever double up on them. If that's a quality of life feature you want, then by all means go for it. Its tough to keep those features and stack a lot of defense on Regen as there is an opportunity cost of missing things like Maneuvers/Combat Jumping. Still, you can make that up through using defensive amplifiers via the Pay-to-Win vendors as well as through the Incarnates I mentioned before. #1 Least defense, better damage potential (compared to the other two) #2 More melee defense to make using Lightning Field safer. Damage is roughly the same. #3 Lots more defense. Somewhat less damage.

That's a pretty good take on it as it is. I'm not sure you really need Tactics. There are pros to having it, but Assault isn't an awful choice for Sentinels either. There is a coin toss on enhancements between TK Blast here and Psionic Strike. Psionic Strike can do a non-trivial amount of direct damage but it comes with the cost of having a very long animation time. Its animation and damage ratio aren't quite as good as TK Blast. TK Blast has the advantage of being partially smashing damage. I'm on the fence about that one. If total time to arrest isn't that big a deal then having an attack like Psionic Strike can feel a bit better against things like robots. Have you given thought to your Incarnate options yet? I'd still suggest looking at Musculature for the Alpha, but there can be reasons to use something like Spiritual here.

There is an old saying... "F' 'em if they can't take a joke." -Bette Midler Haters gonna hate and zealots gonna zealot.

@Rathulfr, thanks. You sell your own advice too short. I think you often present valuable insights since we both have different perspectives on how to approach the AT. As I said yesterday, what you present isn't wrong.

I've written about Willpower a number of times. There is a synopsis of it in the sticky of this subforum, and if you scroll down a bit there is a discussion on Fire Blast/Willpower to another curious user. I somewhat disagree with @Rathulfr about pairing Fire with Willpower. In fact, the advice I give on pairing Fire Blast and Willpower comes back to everything @Hjarkiis discussing. That is using Winter sets in order to bolster defense. I don't generally like recommending that path, but it certainly a possibility with Fire Blast and Willpower. You can build up to 40%+ defenses while still having high hit points, regen, and modest resistance. Fire Blast is self contained enough that it isn't hindered that much by the loss of procs. Now, what @Rathulfris really saying about pairing a highly offensive primary with Willpower on Sentinels relates to the leveling experience. There is going to be a very big gap in how Fire/WP plays from levels 1-49 vs how it will play with full nuts-outs superior versions of defensive heavy IO sets at 50+. So I only somewhat disagree because some narrow bands of primaries plus Willpower can work out reasonably well at endgame. Some combos will have a slightly smoother transition from level 1 to 50. Few, if any at all, accomplish both while simultaneously keeping a majority its damage (referring to overall damage potential, not ED capping) intact. Willpower is an OK set on Sentinels. With the right primary and a plan at 50, it can probably be very good. However, IO set diversity on Sentinels just isn't at the same level as it is on melee ATs. That makes closing Willpower's (and by extension Bio Armor) gaps more tricky. Its not impossible, but it just doesn't come across as intuitive to me. YMMV though. Some folks love WP in all its forms. Here, it trends on taking a backseat. Invulnerability is nearly better in every way in this AT. The biggest difference there is Psi resist and that can be overstated on occasion.

There are some fair points to consider here. Still, I prefer defense-based. This has worked out in practice far more than it hasn't. Furthermore, I'd be very cautious in recommending Winter sets as a universal defense hole plugger for the Sentinel AT. Those kinds of builds are the precise reason why there are numerous threads in this subforum running on for 5+ pages of people bickering about damage. Any other AT with a higher damage multiplier and more consistent inherent can easily make use of the Winter sets without the loss of performance that Sentinel's experience. Loading up on Winter sets to gain several of those +5% bonuses can be a fine strategy with a limited number of sets. Those would be the ones with the least amount of options to explore damage proccing exist (i.e., Fire Blast, Archery, Psychic Blast, Electrical Blast - partially). I get that many folks do not like that procs help raise Sentinel damage to what becomes more competitive with other ATs. However, that is reality of the current game implementation. So yes, what you present is certainly an option. It is why I point out Radiation and Electric armors specifically vs also talking about Dark Armor in that same sentence. Radiation and Electric both have other consistent effects that make them better than just resistance-based. Their particular layering of mitigation options works well with any level of defense investment where the more is the merrier. However, this idea does not work with all Sentinel combinations. The Defense sets are generally easier to do this with, and still allow for flexibility in damage dealing. It is a more universal approach vs a specialized one.

I tend to lean towards the following secondaries: Super Reflexes Energy Aura Invulnerability Ninjutsu Any of those 4 trend towards being some of the easiest to build while also including enough perks to be worth their while. You can soft-cap any of those 4. Invulnerability may not be as easy, depending on the build, but it most certainly has the potential. Most of the other sets range in effectiveness. I generally lean towards defense-oriented secondaries for lower hit point cap ATs like the Sentinel/Stalker. However, Radiation Armor and Electrical Armor are very strong resistance-oriented sets. There are only two secondaries that I would caution taking. Fiery Aura and Ice Armor. Fiery Aura gives up too much, in my opinion, for what it gains on Sentinels. Ice Armor only really works with a big investment in IOs, and even then it has multiple powers that really suck. Both Fiery Aura and Ice Armor from Sentinels incorporate powers that exist in Homecoming Blaster secondaries. The Sentinel versions of these powers pale in comparison. Ice Armor on Sentinels has Hoarfrost, just like the melee version, and it can be made perma. That will cap your HP if you give even any passing thought to it plus collect your accolades. This turns one of the final powers into a near useless choice that really just gives you more slow resistance. Fiery Aura and Ice Armor are generally big losers on Sentinel endurance management tools when viewed against the other sets design choices. Sentinel Ice Armor does include Icy Bastion like Stalkers for its T9. Its an awesome power that has a really long downtime. You can make either work, but you may feel like pulling your hair out while you level. For primaries, well you can generally make any of them work. Sentinels aren't exactly Pylon time award winners, but they can be made more effective than their reputation may sound. There are certain power sets that trend towards being better than others, but most of the sets can turn out well if you're not completely turned off by damage proc slotting. Assault Rifle and Energy Blast tend to be the sets that have the steepest hill to climb when looking at pure full set bonus builds. Even with damage procs they'll only ever be "OK". Archery can seem to struggle for some player's tastes. Archery doesn't have much going for it in the way of additional proc slotting potential which in turn lowers its optimization ceiling when compared to some other sets. Still, despite its perceived failings I tend to enjoy Archery. That set just works better with a very high amount of recharge to cut out the need for its weaker starting attacks. Water Blast is a solid set but its single-target is notably light. You can build this up, again with procs, but the highlight to the set is its strong AoE potential. Since many players navel gaze at the lower caps on AoE targets of the Sentinel, Water Blast offers a set that overrules that design choice. Sonic Blast does too for that matter, but I'm not a big fan of it. Electrical Blast actually is a solid Sentinel set if you'd like an alternative to Fire Blast. If you're feeling bold and like the proc idea, then Ice Blast can be turned from chicken crap into chicken salad. Psychic Blast, if you don't mind some of the hurdles it faces, has the hardest hitting single target power out of the entire AT. Dark Blast is a flexible set and includes a bit more mitigation than other primaries. Do not bother taking Life Drain for the heal. Sentinel Life Drain has the lowest healing percentage out of every AT in the game. Do take that power if you want to proc it out and convert it into a more effective attack.

Just curious. Between the two builds there are things that stand out that may be more beneficial to a PvP-oriented build. For starters the use of both Super Speed and Super Jump stands out to me since those are common there. Then you have a lot of Knockback protection, far more than necessary for PvE but would potentially have value in PvP. I started working on a build of my own to show what I was thinking of, but I stopped because I thought maybe you're looking for non-PvE ideas. What's most important for you? Are you really wanting high defense or more damage or a combination of damage/recharge? I don't think its possible to do everything with this build. Maybe I will come up with a few different build ideas and just illustrate what I am talking about. You can then decide what you like or don't like.

Is this for PvP or PvE?

I've yet to encounter a team that declined to take my characters along just because they were Sentinels. I have been on a team where some knucklehead decided to get passive aggressive about my value to the team. So I just opted to solo the rest of the entire TF without the team while they all meandered around with their thumbs in the ass. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

This current train of thoughts has been a fun read. Here is my takeaway: How individual players build their characters have a heavy influence on their view of the AT. I've seen Bill's builds for Claws/SR. He was one of the early posters in the Pylon thread too. That build's Pylon murder time has evolved over time, but Bill still has some preferences to his build that are different from Nihilii's. Bill's preferences also influence how his Fire/Time Blaster build came out when it was shared in a thread. I can see why certain opinions get formed just due to how people view the problem solving approach of builds. Rathulfr stated that ATs should be self sufficient and not reliant on things like procs or EPP for DPS. That is going to have a very heavy influence on how one plays a primary. Furthermore, look at the list of primary heroes for Rath. They're all Energy Blast. I know he has other characters in his stable, he's more than helpful to show those from time to time, but Energy Blast on Sentinels is crap all by itself. It can take some procs and become better. It can incorporate EPP and be a lot better. However, Energy Blast's core damage is not in a good place when compared with a set like say, Sentinel Electrical Blast or even Psychic Blast. None of you are wrong in your assessments. Not at all. They're just different perspective influenced by personal choice in how the characters are built. It makes comparisons on what's wrong or right very difficult to garner consensus on.

@tidge There is still some room for YMMV moments. I've chatted with others that absolutely swear by having that %Hide in other powers for their own reasons. Generally though, those reasons never revolved around slow AS hits in hide. It was usually something else they were after within their rotation. So depending on what you're going for the guile proc could go somewhere else. It may be a niche decision, but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad one.

No problem. If you decide you want to go all-in on AoE and keep all the Water Blast AoE's, then consider looking into some of the Sentinel Epic/Patron pools that open up at level 35. There are several that include an AoE immobilize like what you find from Controller primaries. Whirlpool is a ground targeted AoE with a slow component and constant damage. It works like powers such as Ice Storm, or Rain of Fire. So enemies tend to try and run out of it and that is the major reason why some folks don't like it. I have absolutely no issue with it personally, but my character running Water Blast also stuns frequently making their ability to escape difficult. You could still pair Whirlpool with an AoE immobilize and force most enemies to just sit there and take it. So there are a lot of ways to approach the gameplay effects from Water Blast. Have fun with the ride to 50, and feel free to ask questions either on this sub or direct message.

@Crimsonpyreobviously, you can take whatever I have to say with a grain of salt, but I looked over your build for Shadowspawn. The ideal powers to focus on are generally Smite, Assassin's Eclipse, Siphon Life, and Midnight Grasp. If you can get those powers into place where they are available when you need them, then Shadow Punch becomes a skip power. I prefer Hecatomb in Midnight Grasp. I run that same set but use a Damage/End vs Damage/Recharge in Midnight Grasp. On top of that, I have 6th slot for a Cloud Senses Negative Damage proc. Works like a champ. I have a full Mako's Bite in Siphon Life for both the 6 pc bonus and the lethal proc which works nicely in SL. Our Smite and Assassin's Eclipse slotting is the same. I use the Armageddon 5pc set for the recharge in Shadow Maul. I had it with 6 slots and a Fury of the Gladiator -resistance but decided I didn't need it. Dark Regen with a Theft of Essence is a nice thing to have. I ended up changing my slotting for this to 4 Sirocco Dervish (acc/dmg, acc/dmg/end, dmg/end, lethal damage proc) plus Touch of the Nictus negative damage and Theft of Essense endurance. There is 0 recharge modification in that power so its chance to trigger those 3 procs is pretty good. Helps give the Stalker a little more AoE damage. I kept Touch of Fear because I like that power, but dropped Cloak of Fear. I enhance it for -to-hit debuffing; specifically the full Cloud Senses set. Touch of Fear is the largest singular source of -to-hit you get between the two sets. The fear and to-hit debuff are two different things. A target can resist the fear and still get their accuracy hindered. Sure, their resistance value will reduce the overall effect, but its a nice big modifier to stack with all of your other debuff sources. So I'd say consider enhancing this power for the debuff vs the fear duration. Base duration is already pretty long. That's a pretty substantial amount of time to inflict a to-hit debuff that is stacking with your attacks. I still run Oppressive Gloom and Soul Transfer. I actually reduced Build-Up down to just the default slot with the Gaussian's proc. I'm all in on having Assassin's Mark give me Build-Up and completely forgoing any recharge in it. Against full spawns this works out very well as Shadow Maul tends to proc it regularly as long as the zone has recognized that I used Smite previously. Against single targets it is hit or miss. So that's a trade off to think about. I've decided to do this on my other Stalkers too unless I can spare the slots for a set bonus (depends on the build). Your build as it is, isn't in a bad place at all. Even with having Siphon Life and Midnight Grasp running non-damage sets. MG is just a brutal power and especially so when it crits. If you opt to refine somethings even just a bit, you can reap some pretty large DPS rewards. Dark/Dark has returned to being one of my favorite combos even in Stalker-land. The only other Stalker I have that adore nearly as much is my DB/EA build.