Sanguinesun

If your focus is on better ST with the tanker then switch out pendulum for swoop or gash perhaps. They'd be up around 2s recharge each or so with 400%

If you're building for farming, you dont take all the attacks in a melee set. You focus on your aoes and perhaps 1 single target along with the buildup style power usually. Most of the time when you take a power in a set as a farmer, its for putting IO's in it for bonuses vs necessarily using them. Sometimes the most effective thing for improve a character(and it sounds counter intuitive) is not taking all the powers in its prim/secondary sets its recipe that everyone fine tunes differently between prim/sec, the pools, and the patron/epic choices. The build I was speaking to that I've tested with for example is only using 5 powers from the axe(chop, build up, cyclone pendulum and cleave). When the procs proc, those powers 1.6, 18(buildup), 2.8, 3, 3 seconds respectively. I think you can see how that makes for the chain being up almost constantly. And those attacks have the proc in them. Due also to having global recharge in some defense and bonuses from the IO sets, even when the procs dont happen, I've 112% recharge with haste but since the procs in the 3 aoes can get the 400% without the single target, its pretty much ongoing if using the chain.

Imagine if you slot your attacks with force feedback +recharge for those powers (that's how folks get high recharge times in various sets with kb/kd in them). Dont rely on 1-2 powers with them. Get them in the AOE's so they have the easiest chances to trigger. You'll literally have Cyclone pendulum and cleave up almost all the time to the point that'll you'll have to really start having to test how to have your best damage per the chain with burn and of course the MU patron aoe powers. Brutes of course will still kill slightly faster with this but at least one of the attacks for axe for tankers now hits more targets than the brute version so it helps. I've tested both the tank and brute versions on the beta server over the last couple of days using meh farms on the test server to see the kill speed differences. Tanks still kill slower with the combo than brutes but I also have to qualify my testing to reflect that this was over the course of a few runs only with my fire aura choices and other choices based from live. But I must caution that they're still not as fast as a rad/fire but that also may be due to my having the most comfortability with a rad/fire routine. On live with other sets like rad or thorns, I can take less powers in the melee's to help optimize IO set choices and aoe choices in mu(as an example a build I use based on America's Angel's active rad/fire build 6 slots mu's lightning bolt, fences, ball, and static discharge. However due to the 3 aoe's with axe now that have somewhat a synergy as choices, the same builds used for other sets just can work as well and adjustments have to be made(at least at this point when I was making and I dont claim to be an expert by any means). You'll sacrifice a smidge of damage in each of the axe powers for the proc for example but thats made back with doing more in your attack chain faster. End use has to be managed though more since you attack faster/more. However the build I'm using has a good end recovery to end use ratio (3.5 : 1.8) so that helps. Your most damaging powers in the chain will bethe MU powers, burn, then the axe chain in that order. Cyclone really serves more as a mechanic than a damage power though at this point to me but we'll see.

Some of this should be obvious but essentially, burn is a strong component for the clearing of groups in farms. Farms are designed so that, in general, so that mobs group up in large quantities to be downed quickly. Burn, along with various other aoe powers allow for the, well, burning down of those groups in a short amount of time. Compared to regular mission play, farmers focus on resistance and defenses in specific categories as opposed to spreading their resistances/defenses out more at the sacrifice of damage/powers. This allows a farmer to focus more on the damage optimizing as well since they're not having to diversify their protections so to speak. Burn as well is capable of having lots of procs in it that allow for additional damage to be done and its recharge time means it can be used in an extended attack chain. Fire has always been considered the main offensive centric set with burn being central to that. Even when the game was live in the early years (even back when you could 6 slot burn full of damage with no diminishing returns) it was used by people farming via specific end game missions for power leveling players etc. Bio actually isn't more damage overall for farmers. It can make for a decent alternative for smashing lethal farms since that's the easier categories to get to cap for the set but its not suited for fire farming(since the fire resistance can be capped very easy with the fire set.

Dont let it discourage you. Let it motivate you to do it 1000 times more and teach others how to etc.

Answer: ego in the form of elitism. A certain segment of the player base and devs just cannot stand that people enjoy playing a way that is different from how they believe others should play. The best answer to the anti farming segment of HC is to: 1. Farm more.... ALOT more, and with 7 ppl invited to join you. 2. Teach others how to farm and encourage them to farm more. 3. Find new, more improved methods to farm via builds and farm making in the AE and if push comes to shove, non AE sources too (like in the old days before AE actually). 4. Make transparent on the forums and elsewhere the best builds and farms and other relevant information. 5. Make streams and vids of doing it etc. Get others to come to the game and enjoy doing it. And more. (Not even touched the market side on this for example....) In other words, the best way to counter their agenda is to do the opposite of what they want.... 1000 fold.

My primary point was to say that the testing parameters used and playstyle biases skewed the results and that the assessment you made should be couched accordingly. It was not intended to be a criticism to your choice of playstyle if you took it as such. People should play as they wish to of course. Which then is a good pivot to reply to this... Or is your anti farming sentiments and spin, yet again, having its torch waved about... Also, have you burnished your torch over on the Axe melee changes yet? Im sure you'll unleash your acrimony upon it too since its become a better farming candidate than its previous iteration now. And also will you declare those changes as bugs, broken, and over powered?

Here are the problems with regards to most testing: There are different goals with different tests and with different results often due to tester variables that aren't well accounted for. It skews testing and claims, I think.

I can give you a hit in the direction for considering how: 400% cap'd recharge.

Because neither build is optimal per his choices and his thinking with the sets. For his testing methodology, he took all the same powers for bio and he took the same pools/epics for both builds and slotted/IO choiced them the same. Then when going with the rad/ and spines/, he took the same power equivalencies (skipping power 1 and power 3 from each set.) However he choose, either due to personal preference or due to the powers being different types, different IO sets combinations. This is where the false equivalency comes in. If you actually looked at his builds, you'd see he biased the spines one with more higher damage IO's in some power slots but choose orange for the other one and there are other similar issues because, both sets have different functioning powers. And there were other differences too. But most farmers know, you don't build either set the exact same way for effectively farming. If you attempt to build the same(as he did) that's why his results skew as they do. So if he want's to make the claim that if he takes all the same tier'd powers, slots the same, then put IO's as close to comparison(with of course his using spines as the default to build from(another skewing bias), then of course he's going to get results showing more from spines due to the difference of the set. But its arguably not accurately testing to the differences/strengths of the sets. However, if he built from the stand point of optimizing for the rad set and not the spines one as best with his bio armor choice, then there may be compelling evidence to say that the rad one would be likely be higher.

Hybrid: Degenerative If you only want to have the minor toxic dot proc, take Degenerative Radial Conversion. In some combinations of the -hp proc with the toxic dot proc chances, the toxic wont check its chance to proc until it first -hp succeeds seemingly.

3 hours is somewhat iffy. If I am taking 1 toon on runs to level them, I can use patty's dreck farm clearing it 3 times n change to get a toon to 50 and get it very close to 3 hours if transitions are between runs smoothly and not taking too long to sell stuff during the transitions. It there's more than 2 in the process, it will take over 3 hours. As others said, that's going to be a combination of the exp reduction( they call it a bug yet it was up like that for a very long time without them "patching" it so I'm just gonna call it an intentional nerf due to mindset changes by the dev team) and that there was a change to the ability/power requirements when making mobs between min- Elite boss that older farms that their makers have not returned to revamp have resulted in significant exp/influence reductions. Patty's dreck and some other missions now are more optimal BUT due to positional defense changes and the change to the aggro (by mobs), you'll take considerable more damage with older build farmers in general. Angel has some build recommendations they posted in another thread for certain power sets that may match improvements but its still going to be an adjustment for most. Alternatively right now, hit peak times on excelsior and just join the league halloween farms(yes isnt it interesting they're farms....) since there's no transitions between missions and you're just clicking doors and letting the blasters do the work, its fast exp. Only inconsistencies will be when leagues dwindle due to leaders not keeping the invites going out. There are segments of the player base that essentially hate farming as a whole, hate farming only in the AE, hate people leveling fast, hate people, hate use of procs and want to see them removed from the game etc etc etc. They all find a convenient intersection with AE farming unfortunately. Some of those mindsets also seemingly would be found within the devs and their associates. It mostly boils down to people wanting others to play their way or hit the road (ie elitism) vs what others enjoy or simply have little choices else to do(not everyone plays well pop'd servers or at peak times or wishes to deal with teams with misanthropic personalities) and this has been an entrenched, ongoing thing for years now with changes trickling down to further discourage farming and specifically targeting AE farming. Best way to counter it is to farm more, and teach/get others to farm more, honestly.... not quitting(though there are a few people that I know that stream coh play that have been talking about quitting because they enjoy streaming farming and then using the proceeds to fund contests or other in game activities. That'll be a shame if they do quit but I've told them don't let them discourage their fun. Nothing stopping folks from either going to other fast food joints or starting up their own of course. Right now I'd say that the offerings of Mc'D's still outweighs most changes/negatives though but the scales can always shift.

I think you misunderstand my testing query partially. Its not about the cap with immobilizing/holds. Or warwolves(which I do not use for testing). It is whether immobilied/held mobs can be pulled into melee with the cyclone or do they remain outside of the tight melee. It is also about whether or not people are seeing the pull cancelling the immobilize/hold when cyclone does its thing. I can't tell if cyclone is just cancelling the animation or if its actually removing the hold/immobilize. I'm seeing inconsistencies that I cannot make adequate confirmation that these 2 things have been occurring or not. So partially you are somewhat confirming that the held/immobilized ---can--- (perhaps) be pulled into the tighter melee range with cyclone from your experience. I'm hoping to see more information from others on that because IF it is indeed pulling them in that's great! However if its also breaking the hold/immobilize upon doing it, that's not so good.

Take their faux misanthropy with a grain of salt. Since Snark was framing a good portion of his post in relation to survival with smashing lethal farms (most of them) and similar flying tactics contextually in the discussion, his build can farm without much concern, albeit slow. An Ice/Tactical/with invuln from epic can survive even more effortlessly and with more damage/aoe output, much better recharge and never seeing their endurance become an issue to use insp or ageless. This is because the only damage incoming potential to such a blaster is ranged in those cases. A scrapper though gets it all incoming due to being on the ground and encountering melee. Statistically this means damage gets through much more and thus the scrapper has to have more management there of. Does that mean a scrapper cant handle it? No they can, but they're going to be more active in their needs to do so. This I believe is the point snarky is trying to make, that the blaster has advantages the scrapper cannot partake of(unless they want to make a flying scrapper with range abilities 😛 then). it'd be on par with the slowness of his proffered build probably. And as snarky said, there are play choices (ie flat footing with a pack of mobs) that of course a blaster would not be suited to. I don't think anyone disputes that unless we're talking maybe a widow-in-blaster's- clothing (as long as they dont encounter a defense cascade either mind you). 😛 That was part of the point too in snarky's build since they're running a 40-50% ranged defense with their 75% cap s/l resistance.

Cant call something a bug when it was something that devs knew about and accepted for many years since the days of it running on live means that's more or less what you call intended. Spinning it(and other changes) otherwise like a certain segment of people in various threads are trying to do doesn't change that.

I've been trying to test something with the new cyclone mechanic and I cant come up with conclusive evidence. In order to test this you need to take a power in a set(easiest is the electric fences) that immobilizes aoe of targets or holds them. Then from testing: Are you seeing immobilized/held mobs being pulled in with the cyclone power? Are you seeing those mobs animation/and or the immobilize itself/held cancelled when pulled in? As I said from testing I'm see sometimes the above occuring(at least in the chaos of it all I think so) and sometimes not. Has anyone else seen/experienced such?

Just something I want to ask about: Wouldn't the reliance of being in melee to use kick to proc the +recharge have the total recharge at only about 67% if not in melee in that build, so while it does have more survival at range, it lacks damage output due to the slower recharge, especially in a s/l farm context?

A better question would be to ask why the set, intended from its inception to be intended to be the most offense oriented set, should be altered(generisized really) to lessen that intention and given consolation prize equivalent survival uptick? Basically HC devs are mixing both, making generic the sets both in terms of function and roles without keeping in mind the reasons the sets were more distinct in the first place. To what end goal then? The -def secondary attribute in attacks being made more prolific in so many sets too is another example of this. Removing holes in the defensive sets(which were intentionally made originally for sets to have weaknesses to overcome), adding more secondary attributes similarly across offensive sets and then chasing a never-ending vicious circle of adjustments there after while not looking at how that has an overall impact to play/interest is something I'm questioning.

Looking over that build, its extremely low in damage output compared to most of the smashing/lethal farming builds for spines and compared to rad/ ones its also arguably much much lower due to your choices of powers/slots/ios. You'd have to present a rad/bio and a spine/bio with testing to actually more evenly show the data to compare of course. Keep in mind rad's also about its containment and -def people underestimate how that improves the set's effectivity. Spines is about -spd/-recharge which makes it in effect more defending set vs rad's more offensive secondary traits. If then a set intended to have more offensive secondary traits were to be made less effective overall with its set to due changes, then it does indeed of course make it much less compelling for people to consider using that set.

I think what you meant to say there was, "I got embarrassed for making error laden comments that were trying to support my poor stance and agenda so now I'm going to further erode the validity of said stance by engaging in ad hominem." The changes for burn do affect both aoe and st due to the proc changes and the changes to the patches though the fiery embrace lil short 2nd patch helps lessen the change its not significantly impactful due fiery embrace not being able to use used in every attack chain nor even every mob group encountered due to the recharge time(even at 400% recharge with primary sets using recharge procs).

Patch just now: Fiery Melee Breath of Fire All changes to this power have been reverted Fiery Aura Burn While under the effect of Fiery Embrace, Burn will spawn a second burn patch for 4.5 seconds So basically they're allowing a mini 2nd burn patch only when FE is up.

Hasn't been around for 20 years? Um, the game shut down the official live servers on August 31, 2012. It'd have to be 2032 for your claim to be accurate on that. That said, the rest, as mentioned already is simply your spinning things again.

You're looking at it from a player to mob perspective. Dont forget the reverse with say 5 CoT/Carni breath of fire applied to you as your group moves between each group. As you say your group will move fast but you'll still be taking all those 46 ticks of damage in tandem from each source well after they're dead. That's part of the concern as it can add up.

Dominator's Phantom Army Powers are little different from that of Controllers. Arguably there's 2 more secondary control centric choices: Punch Energy Punch (disorient) Ice Sword Hurl Power Bolt Ice Blast Lightning Bolt Hydro Blast (knockdown) Controller version: Punch Fire Sword (-def if that -def change goes live for sets) Ice Sword Hurl Power Bolt Ice Blast Lightning Bolt Fire Blast

Interestingly I'd posted this in the Beta forums but it seems applicable here because I do think there is increasingly an issue with feature creep and change for the sake of change(or for someone to tack on their "I added this" to the game: