Monos King

Right. And I have the same conclusion. (That leaves us with the point of this thread, which is why I moved my comment.) Back on topic, -Accuracy (not -to hit) is actually a devastating debuff, and I'd love to see it getting applied somewhere.

As I notes in the post before, grinding is in fact just tedious. But the result of getting those IOs is what removes difficulty. It being quick and easy created a saturation of immensely powerful characters running about, which is the source of the concern to begin with. If everyone is a soloing powerhouse, then most of the game is going to seem easy, roles will be expendable, and activities monotonous. Grinding wasn't a desired option for everyone. So the barrier that maintained the "difficulty" was sort of an illusion for those who were invested, but the mirage maintained the difficulty nonetheless. As for incarnates, you actually had to overcome trials to really level them up (soloing DA arcs was so slow to get the good incarnates it was barely an option and more of an accoutrement) and thus it was somewhat difficult. Keep in mind I'm not saying the game being so easy is bad necessarily...just to show that it is definitely and objectively easy from a progression stand point, which is how a games difficulty is pretty much always defined.

My post is now here. But also, your reply addresses challenge, as I defined it, and not difficulty. It doesn't matter if leveling can be challenging, because it doesn't need to be. Anyone who doesn't want it to be can just skip over what mightve been difficult and become godly, and then sit at the top with few existing challenges. And even if there is a challenge for them, it doesn't matter, because they've already got all the power they would have from overcoming said challenge. It would matter only to someone like a badger whether or not they could complete it.

Topics in Suggestions and Feedback convinced me to focus in on this apparent issue. So here it is, in an attempt to consolidate concerns further. We need to divide the terms "challenge" and "difficulty" so we're all on the same page. Whether or not there is a challenge for omega OP characters is irrelevant. The issue is there is no challenge at all to reaching said omega OP status. Progression is not difficult to do, and that's what is meant when I at the very least say the game itself is too easy. Here are some obstacles commonly pointed that are deployed to create challenge, which as a result people have attachment to. 1) Countering different enemies abilities 2) Encountering large amounts of enemies 3) Learning how to deploy the abilities of the character itself 4) Learning how to best enhance 5) Navigating certain maps 6) Learning the mechanics of certain missions 7) Learning how to optimally adhere to the methods of overcoming certain trials/TFs There are a few more, but those core elements are what help to create challenge, but not difficulty. This is because: Ways to circumvent all but 3-5 1) Being unkillable 2) Killing everything before you can be killed And getting to those two stages holds no difficulty whatsoever. Whereas the methods to make progression more difficult are: 1) Make IOs less accessible 2) Make incarnates less accessible 3) Make leveling more difficult (essentially increasing challenge as previously defined) This is only natural, as incarnates and enhancements are the closest thing to gear in this game. There are different ways to play this game, and if you avoid some of the more challenging content, it is popularly believed you can't call the game "easy". But none of the above obstacles actually hinder progression, i.e. getting to the point of high OPness. Challenge and difficulty should be divided because one is reliant on accessibility of power and another hinges on the results of how power is deployed. The game used to have an inherent balancing factor, which made progression difficult (or at the least require investment) but didn't change the accessibility of challenge. This was how difficult it was to to acquire incarnates and IOs. The difficulty was in the tedium and rarity, however as a result, you didn't see teams running around with solo-all gods composing their entirety, which made the existing challenges greater by default. People still widely had their desired relevance in teams they would casually pick up, and the extremely invested would do their masterful speed runs at the exact same level of power they have now. In synopsis, the game itself is easy because progression to a point where challenges are non-existent is not difficult. The fact that there is, in fact, a stage where challenges are non-existent is not the issue. Unless we desire to again limit the accessibility of extreme power in some way, this issue will never be resolved. I believe the absolute closest we can do is create new hyper difficult content for said OP gods, and hope they are all invested doing that so as to not trickle into the lesser level content. Seeing as IOs will however still be a factor, that will be a serrated solution at best. Thoughts?

Definitely need to keep Knight Errant.

The Only Thing They Fear Is You

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Deflated_Ego:_Chance_for_Recovery_Debuff https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Commanding_Presence:_Taunt/Placate_Resist Just saying. Carry on,

You should probably sit back, take a drink, and think about why multiple people are saying what they are rather than flaunt your ability to google. You're fixed to your opinion, and it's making you narrow minded. Even I, who is decidedly in the camp procs are ok (to go back to the main topic), am seeing you make no good point for our side. It's been said before, I'll say it again for posterity's sake. There can't be one optimal build. Because when you are playing this game, the goal is not to do one thing, 24/7. You might need to escape, you might need to survive strays, you might need to maintain your recharge or endurance. So when you build, you will have a specific goal in mind. And that objective is what decides what is OPTIMAL. The closest thing to that, however, would be becoming a well rounded ace which has achieved total self-sufficiency This is because the definition of said sufficiency is "needing no outside help in satisfying one's basic needs", which in this case would be being able to drop your character into various environments and be able to succeed in all of them. Alone. Because degrees of success are what determine what is optimal, having the largest range of success over a panel of activities would by definition make it MORE optimal. Which is the exact opposite of a team play build. Dodging their remarks won't help this conversation progress to where it should be. Let's get this back on track, namely whether or not proc building offers some sort of displacing advantage, and quantifying it.

I think you're misunderstanding people's purposes here. No one is being elitist here, just passionately exercising their efficacy. This forum is for suggestions and feedback, and a lot of people have observations and objections on how procs have altered the very nature of how the game is played - to varying degrees in different spheres. As for "changing how people want to play" literally any gameplay related discussion will have that impact in some way, this is an inevitable impact of game development, and you just have the option to influence that process here. Game balance is an inexorable part of games. Unless you want to shoot the ceiling like some servers, you'll have to acknowledge that discussions about it are valid. Even when the way "others want to play" is just enjoying anything that makes them unavoidably over perform.

Hey. I love it.

Whats funny is, seeing as his rank is literally separate from arch-villains as just "Reichsman" he totally would be immune to that setting lmao

Having the quick recharge makes the chance of proccing way lower. It's part of the user unfriendly mechanics of how procs work.

I mean I love it just from it's uniqueness. I think it would be fun to play particularly with that revised t9.

MMs have supreme single target killing ability, but fixing pet survivability is something that is on the devs radar without a doubt.

And very appropriate considering the IOs name.

I...doubt it. A lot of assumptions here, but if you dont like PvP you don't like PvP. That has it's own value, but the "what if I get spammed" and "what if people I personally dont like come" and other such slippery slopes aren't really as valid. Any addition to the game may or may not have consequences; example A. If you add a zone event to a zone that didn't then naturally more people would go there. More people going there would mean there might be more lag. More chances someone might intrude on whatever event you had planned. More chances someone might kill steal. Etc. We don't prohibit additions based off of natural indirect consequences...especially not when they would come with many options to address them like with this proposal. Essentially, your problem isn't the proposal, it's players. On that note, I think you'll find PvPers aren't nearly as bad natured as you presume.

It could work if its aimed at their feet.

If this happened then that option would be guaranteed.

Hold on a second. What about the Knight Errant temporary power? Will we still be able to get that from this?

Well if you feel that way it's all good, and I do acknowledge the other sentiments here. Just throwing in my cents for why I'd be in favor.

Oh no, in my experience there is a lot of RPing that occurs in open places. It's been that way since live, with hubs like pocket D actively encouraging it. Even now you'll see it in local, in general, in your teams, even seeing people integrate RP into how they play the characters and complete objectives. And even though I don't prefer RP, that's ok. Also I wasn't disagreeing with the idea that PvP is hated by some (as that much is definitely true as you noted). The point is, even if someone does not like seeing something, that's not a a good reason to prevent it from existing in the game. As hilarious as VileTerrors "Two chads walking in" description was, people still enjoy different things, and they all exist in the game. The scorn some have isn't valid counter point, it's just a bit self-entitled. One could even call it non-inclusive, if that resonates more for some.

Hahaha, perhaps. But you'd be surprised at how many people I've gotten into, or convinced to re-enter PvP just by casually asking them if they wanted to fight me or my pets.

Disagree, that is decidedly an opinion. It's as much of a point as "there is a time and a place for RP. I hate seeing it in Atlas Park. I don't want to see it because I despise RP, and new avenues for RP shouldn't exist because I don't want to be reminded it is a part of the game that people enjoy." That wouldn't slide, would it? Competition not being in this games DNA is also not a point. That's also very much an opinion, determined by how people decide to play this game. That's what's great about CoH, you can pretty much do what you want. Now whether or not this game is conducive to balanced PvP is subject to much, heavy discussion amongst us PvPers, but that's something else.

That's ok. Theoretically there would be the option to opt out or have an auto-decline option. Should work out for everyone. As for the second part with the not wanting to even see it break out...I'm gonna have to put that under a solid "too bad". If other people want to have this kind of thing in the game, and it's not mandatory to partake in or even receive invitations for, I can't see that mattering in the slightest. The game doesn't revolve around anti pvp sentiment. It'd be pretty damn selfish of anyone to attempt to deny what could be a fun addition for others just because they don't want to see it.