Leogunner

No, it doesn't. So then you're asking people to spend time typing stuff for your amusement then. Get out of here with your entitled BS. If someone wants to type out some elaborate suggestion, they will do so of their own volition, not because they need to win some forum debate with someone accusing others of being lazy while they themselves are being equally lazy. lol again, nice try.

Well, when you've finished planning the organization of the meeting to consider the pre-conference brainstorming process, let us know. In the meantime, if the "the idea" is a set of story arcs, it won't get any more concrete than that until someone starts writing them. Well it's still not agreed yet if "the idea" is just "a set of story arcs" and even if it is, the breadth of its integration is likely the point of contention here.

I get that with where the game is now that this is the likely outcome of such an addition; If they added "Origin-specific costume pieces" then everyone would get them. But why call them "Origin-specific costume pieces" at all if they are not limited to specific origins? I am not defending that; I think that all costume pieces should be available to every origin, AT, whatever. But this is not adding "Origin-specific costume pieces", it's adding costume pieces. Calling something a "technology helmet" or "mutant boots" wouldn't change that. If it's available to everyone then it's not an "origin-specific costume piece". The Circle of Thorns is in the game. Is it a "fool's errand" to write missions that use them as the enemy? Crey is in the game. Is it a fool's errand to write missions with them as the enemy? Then it is not a fool's errand to write stories for magic or technology heroes that use those groups as the enemy. My magic character is not a spellcaster. They are a lot closer to Juggernaut in the sense that they are just fueled by a magical source. That doesn't stop the "magic contacts" from sending him on the same missions that they send the spellcasters on. That doesn't stop the contacts in the game from sending him on the same missions that they send natural, science, technology, or mutant characters on. The power gap between Batman and Superman is a construct in the comics, not in this game. It doesn't matter what origin you gave your character or what powers you selected, the missions are the missions and if your headcanon doesn't allow for certain level-appropriate enemies to be a threat to your "Superman" then that is your problem. ============= Not going to edit what I have already wrote, but will add some things based upon recent responses: The natural story, to use a mentioned example, doesn't have to be a "gritty noir murder mystery". That story isn't about natural characters, it's about detective heroes. You keep trying to shove things into the conversation that the game itself doesn't seem to suggest. What do natural heroes do out of the gate? They fight some Council, they fight some Skulls, they talk to the Security Chief and fight some Hellions. And then when they are through with all of that, they get introduced to some contacts that seem to specialize in the Lost, so now they are dealing with that faction. Where is the "gritty noir murder mystery" that you think they have to do to stake themselves out as natural heroes? How many "gritty noir murder mysteries" are there in the game, anyway? Of course, you are not limited to your origin contact anymore, and so the natural character can end up fighting Vazhilok or Clockwork out of the gate if they would rather, but I am still looking for those "gritty noir murder mysteries" that you seem to think natural characters must be involved in. The closest I can think of on any regular basis are the Vazhilok. Not really gritty or noir, but they are definitely behind some murders. But I suggested that they use the Council for natural characters. Why neither Batman nor Superman could enjoy an arc where they are trying to stop the Council from taking over the world I will never know. I don't know how you could write the first half of this post and then turn around and write the second. Using the Circle of Thorns as an enemy group in a story does not make it a story for Magic Origin characters, it makes it a story with the Circle of Thorns. I'm not objecting to them adding new content or stories, I'm objecting to them adding those stories and trying to tie them into our characters for us. You say you have a Juggernaut type of character, empowered by magic but generally ignorant of its workings; what if they wrote a Circle of Thorns story and, seeing you have a magic origin, gave you an objective to perform some ritual, because as a Magic origin character you must know how to do it? That would completely fall flat as a way of connecting the story to your character. That's what I'm objecting to, that's the fool's errand. How is it any different from current where an artifact or ritual is needed to progress the story and it all just works out without intimate knowledge of the workings? Your argument crashes into the brickwall that is the already existing content. That being said, your argument also presents an opportunity for character growth. So you've got an example of a character who has no knowledge of magic but has powers granted by magic? I guess it's time they learn a bit about the complexities of their powers' source along with some rituals101...perhaps they'll strengthen their abilities or learn new ways to utilize their powers (*hint* *hint*). But if we're to assume that this would be forced upon your characters' backstory when we're talking about the source of where their power comes from, I'd categorize that being a person power-tripping the basic rulesets of the game. It'd be akin to a guy wearing a technology power suit yet not knowing how to push the power button on a laptop. Somehow this guy can fine maneuver advanced tech but can't conceptualize power cycling a simple computer?

Nice try but the suggestion so far isn't concrete. The idea still would have to be agreed upon before any work could be done on it. "Offering to invest time" at this point is a empty gesture.

The obvious answer to this reply is "Then don't play it". Well that's the rub. Why write a story with such a targeted audience in such a way that it alienates a large portion of that audience? As an avid villain player, the audience is alienating itself, not the content. If we're to follow your logic, nothing should be added to CoV then.

I feel like you're trying to apply an impossible standard to the idea and then rejecting it because it can't live up to that standard. CoH already sends your "Superman" and "Batman" on missions to clear gang members from warehouses, and then into portals into other dimensions/timelines to fight aliens. No one's head explodes. If you're deeply into your concept as a street vigilante, you just bypass the content that doesn't fit that. Adding origin-themed/oriented mission content would just be more of that. And the vast majority of players aren't so deeply into their concept that they filter missions based on some kind of setting or genre standard. Frankly I'm baffled at resistance to the idea of making some aspect of the game more interesting. I mean I expect people to say it's unworkable or possibly confusing or even flat out impossible without a a major code overhaul, but if your objection amounts to "that might make me have an opinion about my origin" I'm kind of at a loss... Your suggestion is to make origin more meaningful. How does adding mission arcs themed around origins make our choice of origin for our characters more meaningful? If you limit the content to just characters of matching alignment, all you've done is add a mechanic that excludes 4/5ths of characters from running it. If anyone can run it, that literally describes all the content already in the game. Yes, the game already sends us to fight gang bangers and dimensional invaders alike. What it doesn't do is cloak that in some kind of theme, saying "the gang bangers are for Natural and the dimensional invaders are for Science." Firstly, with all due respect: no one cares. No one cares if the gang bangers are natural, mutant or omnipotent cosmic beings. What matters is WHAT they're doing, likely pushing drugs, stealing money, fighting for turf, etc. It also doesn't matter if the dimensional invaders are Science, Natural or Mutation (*spoiler*), it matters HOW they invade. Most Street-based heroes don't have the means or connections to stop a space fleet from pushing into our dimension without contrively linking them up with an individual who just so happens to have all the tech and knowledge BUT doesn't want to get off their duff and do the job themselves. Secondly, I believe, to the OP's discredit, that the idea is to morph and combine ideas. It's not set in stone what SHOULD or HOW origins could be emphasized. I'm going to go off on a limb and say he's already conceded to YOUR points of people not being able to be held accountable for their choice of origin so some means of circumventing or bypassing that choice is likely the solution to your misgivings. Thirdly, I read someone else's post about RP and character concept and how good RPers find ways to FIT into the lore of the game while also being creative. Post here: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,5323.msg42264.html#msg42264 Point in question here: To that extent, I'd argue, if you're TRYING to push boundaries with regards to origin that you then hold the entire concept of powers origins hostage, and how they interact with stories, in what fashion can we rectify THAT? That should be the question rather than "how can we not upset those individuals who might just be a minority or under the assumption their power-tripping is how their experience should be?". I'm not really sure why you're bringing up "power-tripping" roleplayers or people who intentionally roleplay characters that don't fit into the setting. I'm saying that if someone says "I'm going to write a story for all the Natural heroes, it'll be a gritty noir story about a murder mystery," that sort of story is not going to connect with a Natural character who's an alien, or a dragon, or something. Those aren't wild or out-there character concepts for a game about superheroes. I'm just saying that coming at content from the angle of "this will be the story for Natural/Magic/etc. characters" is doomed to fail. The obvious answer to this reply is "Then don't play it". The other answer to your next possible question of "well what if my character isn't natural but wants to do the gritty noir story about a murder mystery" is the option would be there...it would just be LABLED as a Natural story.

I feel like you're trying to apply an impossible standard to the idea and then rejecting it because it can't live up to that standard. CoH already sends your "Superman" and "Batman" on missions to clear gang members from warehouses, and then into portals into other dimensions/timelines to fight aliens. No one's head explodes. If you're deeply into your concept as a street vigilante, you just bypass the content that doesn't fit that. Adding origin-themed/oriented mission content would just be more of that. And the vast majority of players aren't so deeply into their concept that they filter missions based on some kind of setting or genre standard. Frankly I'm baffled at resistance to the idea of making some aspect of the game more interesting. I mean I expect people to say it's unworkable or possibly confusing or even flat out impossible without a a major code overhaul, but if your objection amounts to "that might make me have an opinion about my origin" I'm kind of at a loss... Your suggestion is to make origin more meaningful. How does adding mission arcs themed around origins make our choice of origin for our characters more meaningful? If you limit the content to just characters of matching alignment, all you've done is add a mechanic that excludes 4/5ths of characters from running it. If anyone can run it, that literally describes all the content already in the game. Yes, the game already sends us to fight gang bangers and dimensional invaders alike. What it doesn't do is cloak that in some kind of theme, saying "the gang bangers are for Natural and the dimensional invaders are for Science." Firstly, with all due respect: no one cares. No one cares if the gang bangers are natural, mutant or omnipotent cosmic beings. What matters is WHAT they're doing, likely pushing drugs, stealing money, fighting for turf, etc. It also doesn't matter if the dimensional invaders are Science, Natural or Mutation (*spoiler*), it matters HOW they invade. Most Street-based heroes don't have the means or connections to stop a space fleet from pushing into our dimension without contrively linking them up with an individual who just so happens to have all the tech and knowledge BUT doesn't want to get off their duff and do the job themselves. Secondly, I believe, to the OP's discredit, that the idea is to morph and combine ideas. It's not set in stone what SHOULD or HOW origins could be emphasized. I'm going to go off on a limb and say he's already conceded to YOUR points of people not being able to be held accountable for their choice of origin so some means of circumventing or bypassing that choice is likely the solution to your misgivings. Thirdly, I read someone else's post about RP and character concept and how good RPers find ways to FIT into the lore of the game while also being creative. Post here: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,5323.msg42264.html#msg42264 Point in question here: To that extent, I'd argue, if you're TRYING to push boundaries with regards to origin that you then hold the entire concept of powers origins hostage, and how they interact with stories, in what fashion can we rectify THAT? That should be the question rather than "how can we not upset those individuals who might just be a minority or under the assumption their power-tripping is how their experience should be?".

That was EXACTLY what I loved about it back then! It was called a hazard zone for a reason, now...it's just another zone to me. Yeah, well, most sane people hated when missions were placed deep in them pretty much blocking off progress because you can't reach the door... To a sane person, they just zoomed out the camera and noticed, if you go around the building and squeak along the wall, there's just enough room to slide through the door without them noticing.

I'd recommend reading My Hero Academia: Vigilantes. It actually reads as more heroic than the main series and you get more nuance in how the society works. If you're an anime fan, the main series is great! If you're more a comicbook fan, you'll start to see the Shonen take over the feel of the series as it progresses. Since I'm an anime fan, I love it but having awareness, I can also see the transition.

That's mechanical differences. If you're talking content, the magic based types despite the Juggernaut being basically a Tanker/Brute hybrid, he still is the product of the mystic entity Cyttorak and his abilities manifest from a gem. Either him or Dr. Strange, you're still talking about arcs dealing with magic objects, deities and plots centered around things that find these aspects central to progressions. For Natural, you might be dealing with direct human preservation by bringing in terrorists, disarming weapons or just rescuing people from collapsing buildings. I think you're missing the point. When you pick up a contact, it's not always easy to tell what you're even dealing with. I think the old devs even tried to divide the kind of stories by origin before but kind of fell through as many arcs try to be a hodge-podge of anything so any person's characters would feel like they fit. The idea here is do the reverse: make the content and then if it fits your character (or you don't care), do it. If it doesn't, then don't.

Just before the game was announced to be shutting down, I had an idea and did some quick mock-ups of an origin-based enhancement window. The scope of the idea needed some animations and sounds though so I never got past some basic sketches for a Magic-based enhancement window. To get an idea of what I'm talking about, imagine you made your character Natural Origin. You'd have the option of a basic enhancement window like current or one of a set of Natural-based backgrounds that emphasize what would be considered natural training such as a Gym/Boxing Ring and when you put an enhancement in a power, you might hear the smack of fists hitting flesh or the clanking of gym weights. Had I put the effort into it then, I might eventually come up with blended origin enhancement windows like Tech+Magic might be a popular one. Of course, this would all just be cosmetic. If you're making suggestions around origins, I'd suggest actually making a suggestion rather than just test the waters because, regardless of what suggestion it is, you will get push-back. It's better to demonstrate why an idea is good and have other people amend or tear-down that as it gets us somewhere rather than speculating about feelings. One consideration I'd likely make with regards to Origin content is mixed origins. Dual Origin Enhancements kind of touch on this but, like me for example, I've got a long list of characters who are Science+Magic or Tech+Magic and I'm sure there are a lot of individuals who have a combo of 2 or possibly more origins.

...so is someone going to tell me how to use the spec? Let me guess, it has something to do with the confuse contagion proc?

Yeah, that sucks, the attacks in the fighting pool are worthless to weapon sets due to redraw and yes, you can go "no redraw" but thats pretty damn buggy still. Pretty sure Brawl does a similar attack with no redraw if you already have Claws drawn. Maybe I need to look into seeing about changing over to no redraw on Kick. This just feels like a specific issue for brutes would use it as an attack to build fury with and not using Brawl. Not that I plan on it being part of a final attack chain, just, yeah. I recall the devs saying that Brawl was ironically the most complex attack in the game.

So with that point, would one say that damage procs are best used on ATs that have lower damage modifiers (Controller, Defender, Mastermind, Tankers)? Would it be more worthwhile slotting for extra END Redux/Recharge/Secondary effect on a non-min/max Brute? As far as mez procs, the only one I messed with was the Knockdown procs, and the +mag hold proc but was considering something different on this high-concept build. I suppose I'll just ask if anyone would share some insight on how they use damage/mez procs.

Are the damage procs affected by damage buffs? And are the mez procs affected by things like Power Buildup or IO bonus duration?

This isn't about excluding anyone. Wanting to feel part of a community is not the same as wanting to exclude people. I didn't say anything about excluding anyone.

You know, I spoke about this on the City of Titans' forums but it was more in regards to an LGBT+ SG. I didn't say it was wrong or bad, just unnecessary as most people are pretty accepting and those that make a big fuss should be excluded. I got shouted down and promptly "ignored" (not really ignored since oppressed folks won't ever let you forget being oppressed). I'm glad people are talking sense. I'm not saying an LGBT SG or server shard is bad, just unnecessary. Also, as a long gone former member of the Furry community, if you keep letting a group segregate and sit in an echo-chamber, shit gets insane and people start airing some egregious fetishes and behaviors. How else do you think you get these disturbing displays at RL pride parades and people just look the other way? No no, these types need to cool their stockings and bumless-chaps with the rest of us LGBT and act like normal human beings. There's nothing you can't speak or express around a heterosexual person that you would only be able to do around other LGBT+s...and if it is, you probably should reflect on why that is rather than blame someone you haven't interacted with yet for oppressing you. Oh and I just contributed to getting the thread closed. My bad :(

Following the 2000/3000 HP example, I would still consider +HP to have the advantage. 2 Tanks; Tank 1 with 1000 +HP (sitting at 3000 HP), Tank 2 with 1000 Absorb (sitting at 2000 HP). Both take 1000 damage, both now have 2000 HP. But within the next regen click, Tank 1 will now have more HP than Tank 2, who will still only have 2000 HP. If more damage keeps coming in, Tank 1 will still have the benefit of high regen numbers. But even this only works if they started at max health. If they both had 2000 HP, took 1000 damage, and then one receives +MaxHP and the other gets Absorb, the one with +MaxHP still dies in two attacks, while the one with Absorb doesn't. *gasoline on fire* But won't MaxHP buffs increase Absorb buffs? I know it doesn't work the other way around though...

My interest in this is as a player, not a developer. I do not have the skills to create it myself. If we had the skills to make changes to the game ourselves, there wouldn't be a need for a suggestions & feedback forum. :P I wouldn't take the advice as a slight toward you. It's just economics, really. It's just that it could be applicable to virtually every single topic put on this suggestion forum. But it was posted in mine. It's hard to not take that a little personally. People don't post in every thread they read. Do you? You probably only reply to things you're interested in. You should set your default to "not personal" when on the internet. It's the best way for us to keep our sanity.

My interest in this is as a player, not a developer. I do not have the skills to create it myself. If we had the skills to make changes to the game ourselves, there wouldn't be a need for a suggestions & feedback forum. :P I wouldn't take the advice as a slight toward you. It's just economics, really. Remember, these guys aren't really getting paid to run the game. They're just going off donations to keep the servers running and upkept. Also, if this community is as praise worthy as people say, there is likely generous and talented players around that you might be able to coerce/bribe motivate to rig a particular cosmetic for submission. But my curiosity lies in just how many cosmetics have been added in such a way since the game was brought back. Is submitting a model/texture/rig for adding in the game a viable solution? If so, I wouldn't mind slaving for a few weekends in whatever modeling app to get some stuff I want in.

Probably a defunct anecdote once you get to higher level play: Was playing on my lvl 31 Brute and had 3 other guys tackling Ghost of Scrapyard so I get an invite and join in. They are all lvl 35-37 Bane and Scrapper except the lvl 17 pain Corruptor. Despite our attempts for 6 or so minutes, we could not budge his HP. We came close to seeing a little dent in the bar but when people's HP started to drop and they had to use heals or when the Corr got one-shot and ran back, we were at square one. So I offer to bring in my lvl 32 Beam/Temporal blaster. I logged off, when to pocket d, swapped sides and by the time I got there, the scrapper left. So I joined in and we start pounding away. Almost instantly, we noticed a difference and after around 3 minitues, he budged his HP by a 1/5th. By the time we got him down by 1/4th, 2 passerbys joined in (as they do) and we clean him up in a few more minutes. I think, whether it's more advantageous to stack the other regen from time or the DPS from beam mainly depends on the circumstances. If another teammate can add some -regen, you might be better off just DPSing. If your team is small and you don't want to be the focus of the GM's attention, you might just stack that -regen instead as you're effectively adding more damage without as much hate. I've teamed up with someone who likes to "solo" GMs so I can get the badges (usually, by the time some fraction comes off the monster's bar, people join in). I usually just tag the mob with the -regen so I don't end up dead. Although he probably does enough DPS that the mob doesn't care about my dinky laser pointer.

I'd say this is just the nature of CoX powerset combos. Sometimes you get more synergy than others and this also plays out in teams. The whole "boss being drained near the end of the encounter" likely coincides with the part of your post that says it's "the ultimate soft control". You have to balance it some way and being situational is kind of another aspect of balance here. Like, sometimes knockback is amazing and other times, it is less than ideal...or that diminsion shift might really help out the team or fuck everything up royally. On a team with 2 or more drainers, I think they are rewarded quite a bit. To get the same results solo, it's going to require some aspect of specialization. But all this could just be a result of power creep. Looking at my Beam/Time blaster, he not only has the crazy -regen that allows him to duo GMs with relative ease, but he also has Disintegration which is both a bonus and a crutch. I'd like a lot of the old sets to have some more things added or improved but I also don't want things to creep too far forward just because there are outliers that overperform. I don't think giving Electric attacks an added advantage in situations on teams where mass END drain is a possibility because it's still overall situational.

Like I said, on teams with buffs capping defense, the -ToHit will be negligible if not pointless. Again, on teams with buffs and/or slotting for optimal hit-rate, the -Def is only a factor for foes with +Def. In situations where you'd need the -Def (like when mobs use tier9 defense moves), the piddly -Def of attack sets is resisted to the point of barely causing a change. Perhaps you aren't understanding my position or post? Most secondary effects are ignored in the face of end-game team buffs. This isn't controversial. It's just facts. BUT that doesn't mean the effects are useless for the rest of the game. This IS to include END Drain. I even posted an anecdotal to go with it. Just to completely clarify, your quoted response is actually re-enforcing my argument that END Drain isn't something so weak that it needs more buffs just because it's situational. Going to need some proof there, champ. Mobs' powers cost endurance. They can drain their own endurance over time. I've seen it countless times on brutes where, after finally defeating them, they go down with about half a bar left and that's on a set with no END debuffs whatsoever. Secondly, the recovery portion of the effect is obviously balanced because it both drains the foe and replenishes the user. Effects like that don't get balanced to have a substantial affect both ways. I'm not sure why people insist on bringing up IOs to show how set performance is balanced. Perhaps your perception of how well the -End secondary effect works is because you're using an IO build to base your opinion on. My experience with Electric power sets certainly doesn't reflect yours. I'm not sure why people instantly retreat to "things aren't balanced around IOs" stance the moment someone mentions them. The only reason I brought up IOs is to describe the build's goals, that is, I'm able to diversify the slotting of my electric skills to include END Mod to capitalize off the secondary effects sometimes. It's not to describe how the set is balanced. And if your experience doesn't reflect mine, why not describe your experience rather than go off the words of someone else? Or do you not have your own thoughts and have to bandwagon off of someone elses'?

This thread is very confusing. I don't know if someone posted a right or wrong response because it's just a pyramid of quotes and requests. How about this? If you want someone to guess your set-up, put it in a separate reply. If you want to guess someone else's, quote pyramid it.

Reposting my reply from reddit: I disagree. The END drain DOES have an affect prior to end-game. Just like us, foes' abilities cost endurance and they can drain their own endurance if they attack long enough. Coupled with something draining them and you can leave a boss with empty hands for the last quarter of its HP. On the subject of the effect not being substantial or negligible, this is the case for most secondary effects at end-game. Beside the special few (like Sonic's -res), how often does the -ToHit of dark or the -Def of the sword sets play any role on a team with capped defense buffs? That being said, I'm never against the prospect of suggesting changes. I'm not sure about you guys, but my Elec stalker sometimes does drain bosses to deal with them if they are that bulky (not that much of a stretch considering Elec Melee isn't a particularly strong ST set) or there are more than one. I noticed he got close to draining them completely at around 1/10 of their HP so I developed a strat: I used IOs to get him around 30ish% END mod in conjunction to standard acc, dmg and recharge (sacrificed END redux tho). So jump in with offensive mode (he's /Bio), alpha strike, swap to defensive mode and peel off all their END. It actually doesn't take that long and by 1/4 their HP left, they're dry. I'm sure, by the time he gets to max (he's lvl 36 now), this strat will be defunct but again, that doesn't mean it's useless. If I were making a suggestion, I'd give electric powers a "mana burn" quality in that, if the target is out of END and you hit them with an electric power, they get burning DoT. I don't feel the effect is useless, just lack of incentive since no one seems to care about using the debuff to shut down foes.