Solarverse

If it is a team that I went through the trouble of creating, I define it. However, I use the same rules that most anyone else uses...it's called work with the team, not against it. Plain and simple. I'm not going to cast Black Hole on the mobs you are trying to knock back on your teams, so don't knock back mobs I am trying to keep tight on my teams. That works both ways. This is why biostem called this strawman tactics. I never said anything like that. You put words into my mouth, then you attacked the words that you put into my mouth instead of asking me questions about things that I actually did say. I'm sure you just read my post wrong, so I won't judge. I have been known to do the same thing a time or two. My issue is not with the power or the effect it has, my issue is with how the player uses this power to negatively affect the team. If it goes against the grain of what the rest of the team is doing and a player won't stop...they are removed. That doesn't mean if they join my team with a power that knocks back that I'll kick them. That would be mean.

Exactly! When a player chooses to join a team, they subscribe to team etiquette. Nobody forced them to join the team...and regardless of how people want to justify their perspective on things, (Even a serial killer can justify their murders) they are the ones who will be removed from the team if they choose to play Rambo style. No amount of arguing their points of view will ever change this. I will not suffer chaos on any teams I put together just because a loose cannon feels that their needs outweigh their team's needs. When you join a team, it is no longer about you, it is about the team as a whole. This next part is about this whole thread and things people have said throughout this thread. Running free from the team and not sticking with the team will also get you kicked. You will be asked to stick with the team, and if you continue to stray from the team to do your own thing, you will be kicked...without warning. I do not threaten to kick anyone, I simply kick them after it becomes clear that they are not a team player. If the team is steamrolling too fast for you to pull off your Drain Psyche, then perhaps that team is running things on too low of a level. Simply put, regardless of how you may feel about it, you are either a team player, or you are not a team player. People who are not team players by the standards of what the team is playing by, will simply be removed. I guess these people are accustomed to being kicked from teams, if this thread is any indication to past experience. Final thought of the day: Play how you like solo, play how you like when YOU create the team...however, if you join somebody else's team, be prepared to get removed if the way you play, causes grief to the players of the team you chose to join. Nobody forced you to join a team. That was your choice. If somebody wants to attempt to get me banned just for asking you to play nice with others, then I kick you when you don't...all I can say is, good luck with that. You may find yourself disappointed when next you get on my team as I am playing an alt, and find yourself kicked yet again. Stamp your feet, justify your play style, it won't make any difference to me, I'll still kick you. Sorry, but not Sorry.

The team, not just for me. So in that case I just don't feel bad about it, at all. Whatever we want to call what I am saying to them to me is just as irrelevant. You either work well with others or you do not. If you do not, then you are gone. Pretty cut and dry. (And when I say you, I do not mean you specifically.)

Can you give me an example? Because it sounds like you are saying that by my simply asking somebody to not scatter mobs with their knock back, and requesting they use knock back to put mobs in to a corner instead, would be something you would report and get me banned for. I'm sure this is not what you meant, but it kind of sounds that way. Can you give me an example of the type of thing you got people banned for?

But it is educating. I am not berating them, I am simply asking them to play as a team and not as a RAMBO, and then giving them examples of how to do so. The whole idea that one must dance around semantics out of fear of offending somebody is just not going to happen. They can either play as a team, or they can be dismissed from the team. If I am the one who goes through the trouble to put that team together, then I will for sure have no issues removing a player for trolling the rest of the team by ignoring team etiquette. People can defend whatever they want to, but in a game where most players act like the Star is the herpes, when I build the team, that makes me leader of the team. If people don't want to play nice, then they can play elsewhere or build their own team. I will not ask 6 other players to play the way a single player plays, just because that player refuses to play nice. It is far easier to kick that player, and fill his/her spot than it is to watch 6 other players quit because they are annoyed with a single player and then have to fill six spots on the team. As this title says, Sorry, but not Sorry. /kick If a player wants to play selfishly, then they can play the way *they* want to by themselves or on somebody else's team, it will not be mine.

In Jub's defense, he/she did say that they voluntarily leave if they see the team is growing annoyed with his/her play style. He/she is not here to annoy anyone it would seem.

You are the Darth Vader of video games! In all seriousness, I have no complaints if that's what you do. Not a villain as far as I am concerned.

So you don't care if you are completely making things extremely difficult for the rest of the team, just because this is how you wish to play? So you believe that when you join somebody else's team, that they should rearrange how they play to fit your play style? You feel that teams should just deal with how you want to play and revolve around your play style and if they don't, they somehow lack empathy? What about your empathy for the team that you joined? I am really having a hard time seeing things in a justified way through your eyes...even after putting myself in your shoes, I can see nothing but wrong on so many levels with this.

This is because people are playing everything on +0 these days throughout the leveling process. People want to steamroll, even if it means crappy xp. Players have gotten spoiled as time has went by. I remember a time when nobody ran anything under +2. Now I have to write out a paragraph to my teams explaining why I roll +1 just to keep them from complaining about it before I even start a Task Force. The game is only easy because players want it to be easy. Just wanted to add that in there to go along with what you wrote.

The ONLY issue I have with Electric Manipulation is the Endurance discount and what power it was added to. This may not bother some, but for me, it is enough that I can't play the set. I do not like stopping every so often to clap my hands randomly, just to get the Endurance Discount from it. So, here are my thoughts on how to get the Endurance Discount moved to the appropriate power without breaking the set. Remove Endurance Discount from Force of Thunder. Change the name Force of Thunder back to Thunder Clap. Add Endurance Discount to Lightning Field Swap Lightning Field with Havoc Punch The reason we swap Lightning Field with Havoc Punch, is to keep the Endurance Discount from Lightning Field in check with the other Blaster Secondaries that include the Endurance Discount toggle.

How people play is none of my concern. How they mesh with the team is. If you are playing on the team and you hit the mob with an AoE knock back, which scatters mobs all over the place, what ends up following is Trollers (accidentally) lock down the mobs while they are scattered, then the mobs are stuck in that scattered position. Meanwhile, you have the other Blasters on the team using their AoE's and it only hits one or two NPC's because the one they had targeted, has been knocked away from the rest of the mob. Meanwhile, that Tank that went through the trouble to get the mobs stacked on the Tank, is now subject to lose out on his +Defense per NPC within Melee range, and his Defensive bonus is now useless, which means the Tank now takes more damage than what he would had the mobs been stacked on him/her. The only person in that team that made good use of his/her AoE...is the player with the Knock Back with his/her initial AoE strike. If I inform that player that what that player is doing is hurting the team, and that players considers me judgemental for doing so, then I will without hesitation remove said player. That player absolutely is a bad player. That is a player who only plays for themselves, even though they willingly joined and became part of a team. When you join a team, you subscribe to playing in a team friendly way. I'm sure this is not how you play, but at some point you have to admit, this is a very good example of a bad player.

It only takes a few seconds to type; Hey, do us a favor and aim your knock back toward a wall that the Tank is holding the mobs in, or wait until the mob is locked down by the trollers so you don't scatter the mobs, or if you fly, fly above them and aim down with your AoE knock back. The Tank is trying to keep the mobs tight so we can ALL make good use of our AoE's. That took me exactly 15 seconds to type. The problem is, is when nobody says anything at all, that player goes on to annoy other teams as well. I think if more people chipped in, even a little info here and there, bad players would become fewer and fewer over time. I would rather take 15 seconds to give a small tip to a player who is giving the team fits, then have a couple of other players chime in to agree (so that the bad player doesn't take it like an attack, rather than a short education) than kicking that player. I'm not a fan of kicking players from a team. It's a last resort. I think players banning together to help educate is the much better solution all round.

You have pretty much defined a good player right there. People kicking you from a team because they felt like you just had a bad power, even though you weren't doing anything wrong, just means you got on a team full of bad players. The fact you turned it off in tight spaces speaks volumes for you. I would say you just ended up on a team full of bads.

This is going to be a bit long winded, but I feel it's needed in response to your reply. I agree with you completely. A Troller who locks down mobs before they even group up on the Tank drive me nuts...especially if I am the Tank. Most Tanks get some type of buff for every NPC within Melee Range, and if a Toller locks them down before they group up on the Tank, the Tanks takes all the damage, without the use of the Buffs the Tank gets for having the group stacked on him. Furthermore, the AoE's from the Ranged team becomes minimal. A good Controller will wait patiently until the mob stacks on the Tank, THEN lock them down. If I remember correctly, in the days of the old, players were more vocal about these things on teams. You either conformed or you were kicked from the team. Players would give you one warning, and help educate you how to do things the team friendly way...if that player refused, that player was removed from the team. Eventually, when that player got tired of being kicked from teams, that player learned to stop playing selfish. These days, people seem timid in saying anything at all...people just "deal with it" and that player goes on playing against the grain of the team without a clue or a care in the world. You might get one guy who says something, but the rest of the team doesn't back him up. The team stays silent due to being scared of confrontation, but then once you kick the bad player, the team thanks you after he's gone? Don't thank me! Get my back when I say something so that the player doesn't feel like I'm just picking on him! I think this is why we are seeing more and more bad players in this game. It's because people are too timid to say anything and speak up. The few of us who have no issues with saying something and making an attempt to educate the player, get no help from the team until that player is gone, then all of a sudden they start agreeing with you and thank you for kicking that player? I didn't want to kick the player, I wanted to educate the player so that the player learns. But if I am the ONLY one trying to help the player fit better with a team, then I will only be viewed as an A-Hole and not a teacher, and that player will continue to drive his teammates nuts. He learns nothing and continues to play as a power spammer. This I feel is the real problem. The real problem are the good players. Good players are not educating the bad ones. They are not putting on their big boy pants and trying to teach bad players. Bad player are only bad until they learn to be good. But if nobody says anything to them, guess what? They will continue to be bad players. This goes for any power that can be used badly. Hurricaners, Knock Back, AoE Immobs, and even Stalkers who rush to the end of a mission and complete it when nobody on the team wanted to complete it that way. This "Don't tell me how to play!" mentality only exists because we have allowed it to exist. The good players are not standing up for one another, therefore the bads go on being bads. It's our fault bad players still exist.

I'm not against you here. If it were me on your team, I would have asked you to hang tight for one mission on that power, so that I could Null the Gull afterwards (mainly because I don't make it a point to null the gull every character I make) and request you hold off on it until the next mission. Pretty sure that would ahve been fine by you and we could all go on with our daily butt kickings. Having said that, I get your venting here, but to be honest, chances are the players you were with do not post the forums. We forum posters are the minority, but we *think* we represent the majority. Keep this in mind, and next time this happens to you, just politely tell them you'll chill for the rest of the mission, but would be appreciative if they visited Null after said mission so that you can go back to using your GF without interfering with others. If at that point they still refuse...well...that's on them.

My Main is an Energy/Rad Blaster. Not once has anyone ever given me crap for it. KB to KD IO's...that's why. 😉

Oh I see, so it's because of Super Speed! Also, you are a clicker...ewwww!

Very good examples of a good player. Thank you!

Anything Energy. Elec Melee. Dark Melee. Ice Ranged. Stone Melee. SS. Kheld attacks.

If I am the leader of the team, and somebody is knocking grouped mobs all over the place making AoEs useless, the player knocking everything back gets a request to not scatter (Knock Back by skilled players will not scatter mobs) mobs. If that player refuses, I help that player in to a position to find a team that better fits his/her playstyle. No matter how much somebody wants to champion their knock back, if their playstyle goes against mine, they will be removed. I am almost always team leader, so removing them is of little effort. Now, on the flip side, if I join a team and see knock back going on, I will simply find a pleasant way to exit the team and find one that better suited me. The bad thing here is, there are a LOT of bad players out there who use Knock Back and scatter mobs...and they live by "don't tell me how to play" mentallity when asked to kindly not scatter mobs. Players like this are ignored and removed. I would rather not play with players like this. It is rude and arrogant. P.S. This does not apply to single target knock back. STKB does not bother me one bit. I simply retarget and move on.

It doesn't bother me at all. If I max one toon, I make my next toon. The various characters and powers are near limitless. I never get bored.

Sounds about right to me. Thanks for the recap update, Galaxy.

Not the hold, a damage chain reaction only. It was mentioned in more detail earlier in the thread.

I just want to see the Elec pet last as long as the Dark Defender pet, an the hold buffed to either do on par DoT damage like Ice does, or give it a chain AoE effect. I'm not opposed to other buffs, but if these two changes are made, I will be tickled pink. If these two changes are made, I think the set will work just fine and shine its own light.

Penelope Yin, 7:57? How is that even possible?