ScarySai

I know how it worked, @Vanden. I've spoken with some ex-devs, very interesting stories there, especially with how janky introducing new sets was on the old engine. I also expected someone to bring up the "Well they couldn't do it because of deadlines and priorities" argument eventually, which is normally a good argument for this sort of issue, but it ignores a few other considerations in this context. My point remains, you have yet to make a convincing case for the change, besides the fact it doesn't follow the AT scaling like most other powers. There are multiple reasons that could be the case, not just strictly that they never got around to it, like the good ol' Cottage Rule, as an example. Hence, why I said you are making an assumption.

As a developer, let me tell you that the best solution to a problem often involves some weird behind the scenes trickery. It's entirely possible Paragon saw no reason to change those powers to be 'correct'. They absolutely had the means to do it, they did it for Burn, which inadvertently nerfed Bots, but they did it. As far as I'm concerned, what Paragon considered to be fine shouldn't be touched, we did come back for their game, after all. I'm not acknowledging it because that's not going to be as impactful on /dark's performance as the tar patch nerf. Twilight is a great heal and will continue to be a great heal, but it can eat a nerf with relatively little loss in practical performance. Tar patch is insanely important, a slight to nerf to that is a big hit for the set. Nobody is 'ignoring' it, tar patch simply stands out more. Yet, Paragon had the ability to modify pseuedopets at any time if they felt it wasn't intended. You're jumping to the conclusion that it's simply an accident, I have reason to believe it was left alone by design.

1: You don't know if it's "wrong", that's an assumption. 2: When misrepresented, any case can be made into a non-starter.

"Proper" my ass. It was already proper before this. Paragon left it alone for eight years, they had the opportunity to change the powers multiple times and didn't.

Whether a misguided attempt to fix what isn't broken, to obey a design principle Paragon didn't adhere to, or a poorly justified nerf, the tar patch change is bad and the implications are worse. Do what you did to dark consumption, kill this one in the womb. If it's an unfortunate side effect of the pseudopet overhaul, have it match it's former values.

That's not how it works...

It's far too late to start systematically nerfing all non-defender buff/debuff values. It would just feel bad, and there's zero reason to do it, especially since we're not even official yet. Do what Paragon did, bring under performers up, only nerf when absolutely neccesary. Bio, most of the i25 sets and TW come to mind. I don't want them nerfed either, but if you're to start anywhere, start there. Not with freaking tar patch.

Because for the entire game's history, for every port of those sets and in every single balance discussion, it never came up. Now I'm to believe it's an issue and it needs to be fixed, as rage was, because of a technical "rule" that wasn't adhered to before. Side note: If this goes further than debuffs, Blizzard's on the table next, good luck, corruptors.

You're assuming they would have wanted to fix it to begin with.

There's no reason to fix it, though. Paragon clearly didn't have an issue with it, why do this now? Where did this idea that the "intended" scales had to be 100% adhered to come from? It's nonsense. Rain, sleet and patch are fine. Leave them alone.

"Don't fix what isn't broken.", why are we nerfing tar patch out of the blue? There's no justifiable reason for it. As with Rage before you "fixed" it, Paragon left it alone for a reason. It has always functioned like that. What's next if this goes through? Tar patch is an insanely important power. Edit: Freezing rain and sleet would likely be next by this logic, yet nerfing those would be even nastier than here. Leave it alone, don't go down this slippery slope.

I'm in agreement, I think old sets should be updated, SS should be fixed (since they broke it) and the odd fix to major outliers is all that needs to be done for now. I don't think they should change much, but if they are going to mess with things, it's better to explain why the scalpel is a useful tool now than to have them go in with a chainsaw later on.

I made as little changes as possible to your power selection, despite really not agreeing with the sorc pool as a decision. If you want me to get rid of them, I'd be able to make a much better build overall. With optimized slotting, however, I managed to fit in 1k cuts and give you a much better slotting for the build. as it was. Crit proc was worthless in nimble slash, as you never use nimble. Blinding starts all of your combos, on the other hand. Attack vitals will be your main combo, though ageless will allow you to briefly run blind>Ablating>sweep>ablating,. | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1496;701;1402;HEX;| |78DA6593594F135114C7EF9D4EE94281B25364470AA58B8CFAE21612454C9412922| |6BED6B10C6560429B4E49D4A8113F0224F2E2F6E8FE1D7C74FF00F8058C0134EE71| |A9A7F33F1492DE64F2CBFD9FF59EB937796922F0ECCCCAB890F5A72CDDB6D3A94C4| |1CFE78D823BA967CD8C282F0F7D9D3B7A3A695886919858D6ADF4494B9F35EC50C5| |3461CC194BB69198369716CCA2BD2CEA6672392B316966E78BE652B6C1D94D19145| |4B0E7CD7CC0D9A772858C51B8ECC7266F18B3A1D37933934815756B9192A672CB56| |3AA9DB45720A512751FAAE7804AF925BBE7309A1A94279C97C05AA6F99AFC19A37A| |03B4261D28955E516DB3E83DE6D66AB74E83F87FD550F87503D25AAC016060323CC| |61B03EC27C4E6CA6DC54CF857A8ACAF59AB84E0BD7F1908F9B7D6A766CECDBC63ED| |73DE53F219D1EBC860ADB05B043675E043B33CC59D04BF97DD28915FEF20035AFB8| |46F96AF94C813FE8B94BA066D73FEC7B7E33FF324BA0A4D83AC48AFA122DE1A30A0| |DAC04D7E07583BC1AB942D39C70B43E9399652E80FD8BCC79D04FF99AF92FB56CA2| |ABFE0FE0E047663B3974130F62EFA27AAD8871B57D85B6FF3BF327F31BDF0AF26DE| |78977B460C2619E743808AE904F88FBEF3C8133858F83C347984799C7C0C838F237| |52EC3EE4975D9C3FC2F96BE96CDD6CEB8995CFEB1311876EB13624442FCFB1EF3D7| |2AE9236C07D0C3EC01F1D7DCC7CC27C0AC61E321F8175546B88F385BFA0B75B248C| |407345A2E829A681F11FF089FF0207E81C51EE351645AF71E64DB22590474DDC47B| |D03B79977987741ED1E3848316388911A9F4FDBE0DBA7565EB590CEADEA552B6FB5| |345A651DAB52B42AE5509572B84A99DAABF8D0CB8C5A79F142C10D0F8AF2EB707AD| |9F49355B2354E1850C5F6AEA628FD985EF02C09C3C4F398EED6DEB811C47DDAD5A4| |B28EEA4DABE0F46865C258EBCDA4B3F082DE9626F71827DB7785FF6E60F6A4| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|

I'll give it a look when I get home tonight and edit this post with my suggestions.

@CrysisWere you not running the -res procs in sweeping and ablating? With the attack vitals chain (lower recharge) and the Blind>Ablating>Sweep>Ablating chains (high recharge), you should be doing some amazing damage on things like AVs and such. Yes OP, DB is very good once you invest in it. I don't like it personally, but it gets good results overall.

I don't know about the customization, but those necromancy changes sound amazeballs. Actually makes necro live up to it's name. Warshades are better necromancers!

@VoodedYou won't catch me defending the current system, so you're on point as far as I'm concerned. Things getting worse due to meddling would be less than ideal. I'm for the pre-i24 rules simply because it was proven to work. Was it still kinda OP? Sure, so what? Nothing compared to right now. Of course, I have very few characters that rely on proc slotting for damage, much less dependance, so I don't exactly have as much of a horse in this race as others do.

...upping the target cap wouldn't change the fact it's a cone, what?

The 'fix' if it's ever implemented should keep procs valuable/make them more valuable, especially in attack chains, while reigning in long-recharge proc bombs. Procs should be valuable in short recharging powers as well, hence why I'm in favor of pre-i24 ruling. There's no reason why my -res proc should be less valuable in say, foot stomp, than it would be in the rad armor AoE that I totally forgot the name of as I'm writing this. My primary concern with fixing this is that I fear a rush job, over-correction or over-complicating of the issue. We saw it with super strength - especially rage, Gun drone on devices, consumption on DM, and the entire electrical affinity set. Simply put, I have heavy reservations that this would be done properly.

Either revert to pre-i24 rules or don't touch it. I'll be frank: I don't trust Captain Powerhouse to fix this without either making procs useless, or breaking things more.

I'd be down for this.

Don't touch Katana, but yes - BS needs some work.

Why not?

Was the speed capped due to hardware capabilities at the time, or was it an issue with the engine itself that caused things to bug out at a certain speed threshhold? I forget what Jack's reasoning was. If the former, I don't oppose the idea, but if the latter, better safe than sorry, eh?

In fairness, the P&P version of Champions was pretty good. virtue is still better :>