Focused Feedback: Player vs. Player

[barrier]

4 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

O2boost should had been mentioned, it seems changed on my side.

-Range in Hurricane seems to be working on PvP, but it's flagged as ignoring Tanker/Brute/Scrapper/Stalkers and that might mess with Real Numbers. I think thats an artifact from before all melee powers were made to ignore -range so I'll remove that flag.

And Gale?

[Dan Petro]

Tanker Epic / Patron pools : All duration's correctly listed at 2.00 seconds. All pets at 1.00 seconds

 

Brute Epic/Patron Pools : All Duration's correctly listed at 2.00 seconds. All pets at 1.00 seconds.

 

Scrappers Epic/Patron Pools : All duration's correctly listed at 2.00 seconds. All pets at 1.00 seconds

 

Stalker Epic/Patron Pools : All duration's correctly listed at 2.00 seconds.  All pets at 1.00 seconds. 

[Dan Petro]

I went to check out all the CC Procs today and there is currently no listed duration.  Before I sit down and try to slot them all and get an approximate duration while factoring in passive mez resistance, what exactly is the set duration supposed to be? 

[Captain Powerhouse]

It should be 4 seconds for controllers and dominators, 2 seconds for everyone else.

[Dan Petro]

I'll be out the next week if anyone has the time to test the mez procs, if not I'll get to them when I get back.  Thanks for the response Powerhouse, and I personally like that implementation for the mez procs.  Now they allow you to mez on a power or set that wouldn't otherwise have it rather than offering superior duration to an AT that couldn't achieve something like that.  

[Panty Thief]

Maybe slows can get working again.

Slow debuffs, which don’t slow, are acting as speed boost to PvP foes because you can watch your opponent speed away while you’re stuck in rooting animation times. 

 

 

 

[Gibson99]

I say Dan and Epsilon battle it out in arena.

My money is on Eps! 

 

[arcane]

On 9/10/2019 at 7:49 PM, Dan Petro said:

the PvE formula for damage proc type powers is largely based around cycle time of a power (recharge + cast time) where as the PvP damage formula is heavily influenced by cast time and less so on power recharge time.

Two questions so far from reading this thread on my phone.

 

First of all, does PPM for damage proc IO’s have a separate formula for pvp too or is that just a powers thing?

 

Second, I don’t see Defender Paralytic Poison here. Do I get to keep my 4 second hold? 🙂 

Edited September 28, 2019 by arcaneholocaust

[macskull]

On 9/27/2019 at 9:37 PM, arcaneholocaust said:

Two questions so far from reading this thread on my phone.

 

First of all, does PPM for damage proc IO’s have a separate formula for pvp too or is that just a powers thing?

 

Second, I don’t see Defender Paralytic Poison here. Do I get to keep my 4 second hold? 🙂 

PPM works the same way in PvE and PvP. For PvP IO damage procs the amount of damage the proc does is different between players and NPCs though.

 

Defender Paralytic Poison looks like it's been fixed.

 

EDIT: It also looks like all the mez procs have been fixed.

Edited September 29, 2019 by macskull

[macskull]

@Dan Petro @Captain Powerhouse Ingame testing confirms that mez procs are 4 seconds on Controllers and Dominators and 2 seconds for everything else. I have not been able to 100% confirm they're obeying mez suppression but it looks like they are from what I've been able to test.

Edited September 29, 2019 by macskull

[xhiggy]

Looks like Ethereal Shift is partially fixed to obey the NoPhase timer on test server. It now is disabled from being used after the initial 30 sec of the NoPhase timer, however you can activate it before the 30 sec is up and still get the full duration of intangibility. E.g. if you activate Ethereal Shift at 29 sec in Phase Shift you will get an effective 59 seconds of intangibility per NoPhase cooldown instead of the intended 30 seconds. (not a PvP specific bug, but probably doesn't impact PvE). Probably a trickier fix since it's not a toggle like most phase shift-like powers.

 

The temp power jump packs are still working in arena with temp powers disabled, if it's trivial to implement this would be a great fix to include with the mez duration fixes.

[Mallex]

Looks like Telekinesis was accidentally added to the list of powers that get mez suppression.

 

The developers purposefully didn't add mez suppression because it's a hold toggle. It lasts 0.75 seconds and re-activates every 0.5 seconds. It cannot be slotted for hold.

 

By adding mez suppression, it now stops itself after the initial 0.5 seconds.

 

Instead, it has a damage suppression tag, so that it will not work if the target has taken damage in the last 10 seconds. It also grants "Temporary_Powers.Temporary_Powers.KillTk" to the user, which automatically turns off Telekinesis after 8 seconds. This power was working as intended in PvP.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Mallex

[Dan Petro]

6 minutes ago, Mallex said:

Looks like Telekinesis was accidentally added to the list of powers that get mez suppression.

 

The developers purposefully didn't add mez suppression because it's a hold toggle. It lasts 0.75 seconds and re-activates every 0.5 seconds. It cannot be slotted for hold.

 

By adding mez suppression, it now stops itself after the initial 0.5 seconds.

 

Instead, it has a damage suppression toggle, so that it will not work if the target has taken damage in the last 10 seconds. It also grants "Temporary_Powers.Temporary_Powers.KillTk" to the user, which automatically turns off Telekinesis after 8 seconds. This power was working as intended in PvP.

 

With this one, what do you feel like is a good solution / fix? 

 

Right now TK has been pretty much universally banned in arena stuff since i14 or so on live because a 10 second auto hit hold that you can't break out of (with BF's, CM's etc) ends up being pretty broken in small scale matches, and is essentially a free kill once every 20 seconds.  For random people throwing damage it has never been as bad because of the "Breaks on taking damage" aspect of it.

 

I've always sort of leaned towards 4 second hold, the + is it is auto hit and impossible to avoid and isn't affected by mez resistance.  the - is the duration breaks on taking damage and can't be enhanced. 

 

 

 

 

[Mallex]

1 minute ago, Dan Petro said:

 

With this one, what do you feel like is a good solution / fix? 

 

Right now TK has been pretty much universally banned in arena stuff since i14 or so on live because a 10 second auto hit hold that you can't break out of (with BF's, CM's etc) ends up being pretty broken in small scale matches, and is essentially a free kill once every 20 seconds.  For random people throwing damage it has never been as bad because of the "Breaks on taking damage" aspect of it.

 

I've always sort of leaned towards 4 second hold, the + is it is auto hit and impossible to avoid and isn't affected by mez resistance.  the - is the duration breaks on taking damage and can't be enhanced. 

 

 

 

 

Well for standard jump teams, I'd rather throw a well-timed Dominate to hold a target through 3-4 seconds of damage rather than use the current Telekinesis and have them break out + phase the second they take any damage. When Telekinesis was still in a grey area a couple months ago, I was actually using it to cage emps rather than hold spike targets because of that. 

 

The real issue I see with the current Telekinesis is it enables stalkers to AS too easily. Telekinesis + a stalker is death sentence in the arena meta and in zone right now.

 

The best way I could think to fix this is to change "Temporary_Powers.Temporary_Powers.KillTk" to activate after say.....4 seconds? That way it's a 4.5 second unresisted hold, that still breaks on damage.

Strictly worse than a Dominate hold (3-4 seconds through damage) for standard jump teams, but still has some synergy with any comps with a stalker or zone. Keep in mind Telekinesis also does no damage whereas Dominate should do about 300+ damage with procs.

 

Right now though, it's breaking the characters of anyone who took telekinesis. For a power that's working as intended, that doesn't feel right to me. It was accidentally included into the list due to a misunderstanding. Keep in mind I currently have 0 characters with TK because I only use arena-legal characters.

 

 

[xhiggy]

We ran a PvP event on test tonight (~23 people for 3 hours) and having the fixed mez durations was great to have. 

[macskull]

@Captain Powerhouse Any chance Phase Shift could get a pass while we're testing PvP changes? Toggle suppression isn't supposed to be a thing in PvP and right now the intangibility suppresses while mezzed which means that even if you manage to get it toggled on when you see the first attacks against you in your buff bar, if one of those attacks is a mez it's like you didn't even phase at all.

[Captain Powerhouse]

Hmm these powers should be tagged as not dropping if mezzed, all player toggles that only affect self are supposed to.

 

Ill look into this (it i don’t forget among all the other things I got going on right now.)

[macskull]

21 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Hmm these powers should be tagged as not dropping if mezzed, all player toggles that only affect self are supposed to.

 

Ill look into this (it i don’t forget among all the other things I got going on right now.)

The toggle itself doesn't drop (unless you get mezzed while it's animating but that's another can of worms), but the intangibility suppresses until the combat tick after the mez wears off.

[MJB]

Is there any ETA for this patch going live? Discussions have started up once again about banning certain powers for certain arena events/matches and theres always the big elephant in the room of "well it'll be fine whenever the patch hits... any day now..."

[Myrmidon]

9 hours ago, MJB said:

Is there any ETA for this patch going live? Discussions have started up once again about banning certain powers for certain arena events/matches and theres always the big elephant in the room of "well it'll be fine whenever the patch hits... any day now..."

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Myrmidon

[barrier]

No but for reals...

 

Do our wonderful developers have an ETA on this?

 

For context, our scrim group has actually resorted to bilateral bans on the corruptor stun. The result has been the widespread exclusion of a lot of people's characters from scrims. I don't want to be fighting other people's least preferred line-up when all sides would be more than glad to take a fix on stun duration for lancer shot.

 

Is this part of the patch something that could be expedited so that whatever delays regarding the PVE changes are happening to tanks aren't hurting the PVP community?

[macskull]

On 11/7/2019 at 4:44 PM, barrier said:

No but for reals...

 

Do our wonderful developers have an ETA on this?

 

For context, our scrim group has actually resorted to bilateral bans on the corruptor stun. The result has been the widespread exclusion of a lot of people's characters from scrims. I don't want to be fighting other people's least preferred line-up when all sides would be more than glad to take a fix on stun duration for lancer shot.

 

Is this part of the patch something that could be expedited so that whatever delays regarding the PVE changes are happening to tanks aren't hurting the PVP community?

Obviously I have no idea but I'd be really happy if phase got fixed and this went live with the bug fixes only. I realize that probably won't happen because they'd basically have to juggle two patches, but one can dream.

[Captain Powerhouse]

That’s actually part of the plan, patches are already split up but there are some scheduling things that are a bit complicated. 

[macskull]

1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

That’s actually part of the plan, patches are already split up but there are some scheduling things that are a bit complicated. 

Cool. I know you've got a lot on your plate but pretty pretty pretty pleeeeeeeeeeease fix phase while you're at it. I can provide more information other than what I've already mentioned if you need it.

 

Also, sort of off-topic but I noticed a discussion on procs in the Tanker thread. Procs are in a weird spot right now with regards to PvP but I don't think the issue is with procs themselves so much as it is the current DR curves on resistance. Procs definitely raise damage output but at the same time being fixed values means it helps close the gap between lower-damage and higher-damage ATs and allows for more flexibility in team composition. Making proc damage scale by AT is a relative buff to Blasters (lord knows they don't need it, still don't know who thought it was a good idea to give them an 1847HP cap...) and a relative nerf to most other ATs.

[barrier]

Do we have an ETA for this patch yet? Hope all is well on the dev-side of this - did something drastically break when fixing mez durations?