copyrighted chars and npcs in game

[jubakumbi]

16 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

Copyright is not just about profit.  It is about the right to control the making of copies.

 

I did say most, not all.

Jubakumbi and Shardwarrior chief among that "most".

A moral argument now?

 

I am here playing on the rogue servers like everyone else.

My moral outlook is no more valid than anyone else's, I have not said any differently that I can recall here and I was wrong if I did.

I have claimed no moral high ground, Pax, you just seem dead set on attacking me, rather than just discussing the topics (and I still do not understand why beyond we do not agree).

 

I have opinions that I am passionate about and ready to share with all the confidence and evidence I can muster.

Somehow, simply because I won't back down, or that you mistake me for someone else, or that I use terms you don't like, you seem to think that makes me Evil, Pax, and it's just weird, IMO.

 

The discussion is about the right to control the making of copies.

Totally.

The IP holders have the right to tell the infringers to stop.

The infringers, by the laws and restrictions of their society, have obligations to both not copy IP without regard to these rules and to cease when told that have broken the rules.

 

Where have I said these rules, as laid out, should not be followed?

Some of the things I have seen posted try and make me someone that hates Copyright and Trademark which is wholly untrue.

Not a fan of software patents, but that is a different topic.

 

Others players have rolled in and started demanding players follow rules that do not exist and attempted to use misinformation and instill FUD to do so.

Both of these things happened to stuff that really passionately disagree with, I am allowed to opine, so I do.

 

Some here agree with me on this topic, some disagree.

Some that agree, we really disagree elsewhere, and visa-versa, this is the nature of an Internet Forum.

[ShardWarrior]

4 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

I am here playing on the rogue servers like everyone else.

My moral outlook is no more valid than anyone else's, I have not said any differently that I can recall here and I was wrong if I did.

I have claimed no moral high ground, Pax, you just seem dead set on attacking me, rather than just discussing the topics (and I still do not understand why beyond we do not agree).

 

The IP holders have the right to tell the infringers to stop.

The infringers, by the laws and restrictions of their society, have obligations to both not copy IP without regard to these rules and to cease when told that have broken the rules.

 

^ Same here.

[jubakumbi]

52 minutes ago, THEDarkTyger said:

So....many do not share the outlook of being grateful to have CoH back? Because that's the only part where he meant when he said he thinks he speaks for all of us.

I did not read the words in this way, but I see your point.

The OP did not really clarify from my PoV, but 'doubled down'.

Since this is a sensitive topic to me, I can easily have misinterpreted.

 

Even if someone says something I agree with however, I do not condone the whole "I think I speak for X when ..." if the speaker has not, in fact, been given that power.

Just a pet peeve along with the FUD and the telling other players how to play, I guess.

 

[Blastit]

8 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Pirating software, making illegal copies to profit off of, taking unauthorized commissions, selling mods/skins of another parties property are all illegal and wrong.  No question.   We are all guilty for playing this game and no one is the moral leader here. 

"Illegal" and "wrong" aren't the same thing, though. There are plenty of immoral laws currently existing, and the attempt by multibilion corporations to claim legal ownership of culture is certainly among them. So I declare myself a moral leader here and now! And I say this: that there's nothing wrong with playing this game. The people who made it are no longer involved and were paid for their work at the time. No one loses out on something they've earned.

[ShardWarrior]

2 minutes ago, Blastit said:

"Illegal" and "wrong" aren't the same thing, though. There are plenty of immoral laws currently existing, and the attempt by multibilion corporations to claim legal ownership of culture is certainly among them. So I declare myself a moral leader here and now! And I say this: that there's nothing wrong with playing this game. The people who made it are no longer involved and were paid for their work at the time. No one loses out on something they've earned.

NCSoft still owns the property (which was taken without their permission) and as of this moment in time, there is no legal agreement for it. 

[Rodumas]

20 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

I did not read the words in this way, but I see your point.

The OP did not really clarify from my PoV, but 'doubled down'.

Since this is a sensitive topic to me, I can easily have misinterpreted.

 

Even if someone says something I agree with however, I do not condone the whole "I think I speak for X when ..." if the speaker has not, in fact, been given that power.

Just a pet peeve along with the FUD and the telling other players how to play, I guess.

 

People who usually take it upon themselves to 'speak for everyone else' really only speak for themselves. The grandstanding nature of taking lead in a conversation that is just about a single opinion that is shared by SOME and not ALL is absolutely cringeworthy and serves no other purpose than to satiated ones own ego. When someone has voiced their own opinion that really should be the end of it. Discussion will or will not ensue.  But when it's all tiresome rhetoric and childish insinuations in a mutated form every post.....yech. If the rules as such would ever be implemented I know I personally wouldn't mind because I have plenty of 'originals' to dissuade the notion that one cannot have homage characters and be creative simultaneously.  Being a fashionista in any game i play, a few alterations here and there, a shrug, and a moving on. If one isnt working for HC or a part of that whole enterprise, proclaiming to 'care about this game' by insulting other players becomes very old, very quickly. Just much much more quickly.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Rodumas

[Abraxus]

43 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

NCSoft still owns the property (which was taken without their permission) and as of this moment in time, there is no legal agreement for it. 

My sincere hope is that this changes, one way, or the other, sometime soon.  The debate over the changes that will come with the conclusion of negotiations consumes a lot of oxygen around here, and once things are settled we can start dealing with facts, rather than speculation, conjecture, supposition, and profound sense of dread by some, opposed by stratospheric hope by others.  I dream of a time when we are past all of that, and we can chart a course based on reality, whatever that may be.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Abraxus

[Ya'dig]

On 9/11/2019 at 11:19 AM, GM Capocollo said:

We don't currently have any policy against characters, Architect Entertainment missions, supergroup bases, etc. that copy or make homage to other people's trademarks or intellectual property.  Reports of infringement will be noted, but no action will be taken*.

 

However, that does not mean HC will never have any such policy, especially if Homecoming Team finds itself in a situation where it is required to comply with a rights-holder's cease-and-desist or DMCA takedown notice.

 

(In short: it is fine now, but don't assume it will always be fine).

 

* If you yourself are an author, artist or other intellectual property holder and a HC player's content is infringing on that, please file a ticket with proof that you're the rights-holder, and we'll talk.

 

I think that once this was posted it really should've ended the conversation.

 

It seems that some people have a general distaste for creating an existing IP in CoH and want to police them. I'll give those "some" the same advice my dad always told me - "If you don't like it then don't pay it any attention. You are better off just ignoring it and moving on." He also told me, "Snitches get stitches." Sooooooooo.......

[Twisted Toon]

Would Emerald Radiance be considered in bad taste?

 

I'm sure you can tell who he was based off of.

[Blastit]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

NCSoft still owns the property (which was taken without their permission) and as of this moment in time, there is no legal agreement for it. 

Yes, it's a legal matter. So it's a practical concern for the HC team, not a moral one.

[ShardWarrior]

14 minutes ago, Twisted Toon said:

Would Emerald Radiance be considered in bad taste?

OMG Yes.  You should be locked up for the unimaginative bad person you are!

[ShardWarrior]

3 minutes ago, Blastit said:

Yes, it's a legal matter. So it's a practical concern for the HC team, not a moral one.

I agree.  Then again, I'm not the one trying to preach morality to everyone. 😉

[GM Capocollo]

If certain people in this thread don't want their homages and allusions criticized, I think it would also be best if they were also not simultaneously judging other players' preferences for original content.

[Abraxus]

14 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

It's only original when that term is used extremely loosely. Truly original content is an extremely rare thing since we are all building off the ideas and works that came before us. 

True.  Having an absolutely pure concept, free from influence by anything that came before is quite difficult.  Even if someone considers their character completely original, there were likely at least some influences by previous experiences, or exposure to content going back to early childhood.  But, I do love the imaginative expression that having so many options available to us, allows.  There are some truly breathtaking characters out there, some of whom remind me that my own character creating-fu is weak by comparison.  But, rather than think ill of them for being better, it informs me of things I hadn't considered, or perhaps not been aware of, so that I can incorporate elements of what I have seen into my own process, therefore stepping up my game.  That, as opposed to thinking negatively of them because they are better than myself at this.  Hopefully, that is a sign that I have reached some level of maturity about some things.  Of course, that and 5 bucks will get you a cup of cappuccino at Starbucks, so...there's that. 😉

Edited September 14, 2019 by Abraxus

[MunkiLord]

1 hour ago, GM Capocollo said:

If certain people in this thread don't want their homages and allusions criticized, I think it would also be best if they were also not simultaneously judging other players' preferences for original content.

I disagree. Their criticisms are a response to being judged and letting those people know that their preferences are not special or any better. I'm good with judging people for being judgemental, much in the same way I'm good with being intolerant of intolerance.

 

edit: What Abraxus quoted in the previous comment I deleted to say this instead and the timing just worked out weird. So to clear up any potential confusion, that comment was there, but I decided to go a different direction with my reply as Abraxus was responding.

Edited September 14, 2019 by MunkiLord

[ShardWarrior]

Only speaking for myself - I believe there is a distinction between trying to scare others into submission with fear of the game shutting down and just asking others to leave people doing things they don't like alone.

[biostem]

22 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Only speaking for myself - I believe there is a distinction between trying to scare others into submission with fear of the game shutting down and just asking others to leave people doing things they don't like alone.

It, IMO, is that fine line between genuine concern and people concern-trolling/being busybodies, that is constantly skirted...

[biostem]

4 hours ago, Twisted Toon said:

Would Emerald Radiance be considered in bad taste?

 

I'm sure you can tell who he was based off of.

Ooh ooh!  I know, I know!  Green arrow!  😉

[justicebeliever]

Just now, biostem said:

Ooh ooh!  I know, I know!  Green arrow!  😉

Well, to save his city he had to become something else, become someone else.

[ShardWarrior]

2 minutes ago, biostem said:

Ooh ooh!  I know, I know!  Green arrow!  😉

I would have gone with Howard the Duck?

[Burnsidhe]

Whenever these arguments come up, there's always *one person* at least who is loudly, firmly, and utterly convinced that the whole thing falls under "Fair Use" and whatnot, and is utterly and completely dismissive and *sure* that the argument would prevail in court, and that they're standing on the side of Righteousness and All That Is Good in arguing for it.

 

There's an obvious problem with that, and it falls within the phrase in court.

 

Court is expensive. Lawyers are expensive. Being sued is expensive. Appeals are expensive. Add to that the legally uncertain nature of these servers in the first place and the fact that no one involved has the tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of dollars to blow on the legal process, and it boils down to this simple fact:

 

Respect Disney's and DC's trademarks and IP, or you will see a policy implemented like on the Live servers as soon as the first Cease and Desist letter appears, OR you will see these servers shut down forever.

 

No one has the money to fight these court cases, and no one should make it their hill to die on.

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, Burnsidhe said:

Respect Disney's and DC's trademarks and IP, or you will see a policy implemented like on the Live servers as soon as the first Cease and Desist letter appears, OR you will see these servers shut down forever

FUD

 

This proceeds from the very false assumption that making homages is disrespectful.  There are also many circumstances as discussed in this thread that where this is permitted by law. 

[justicebeliever]

1 hour ago, Burnsidhe said:

Respect Disney's and DC's trademarks and IP, or you will see a policy implemented like on the Live servers as soon as the first Cease and Desist letter appears, OR you will see these servers shut down forever.

No one is suggesting that if HC gets a C&D that they shouldn’t comply with it.

 

If they get such a demand, then such a policy should be put in place.

 

However, since it’s unlikely to get such a demand, then it’s silly to demand a change in behavior until such time. 

 

Either way, it’s not going to shut down the servers.

[Jeuraud]

1 hour ago, Burnsidhe said:

Respect Disney's and DC's trademarks and IP, or you will see a policy implemented like on the Live servers as soon as the first Cease and Desist letter appears, OR you will see these servers shut down forever.

 

No one has the money to fight these court cases, and no one should make it their hill to die on

Cosplay is a world wide phenomena. 

 

New York Comic Con

Attendance  180,000

 

San Diego Comic-Con

Attendance  167,000

 

Comiket (Japan)

Attendance 730,000

 

 

This is not 2004, Disney and DC would be insane to come after CoHH, because even though we are small, the internet allows us access to a much larger group of people. A group of people that does what you say should not be done in CoHH, on a much bigger scale.

 

[Twisted Toon]

Just so you all know, the picture on the left in my previous post was taken when the game was live. that was his third costume slot. And he'd had that costume since, 2005, I believe. I was never once notified that I was violating any IPs with that character. Yes, the colors and pattern were similar to Green Lantern. However, it is obvious that I wasn't trying for an exact copy. Can't really, since there isn't a lantern symbol in the selection of chest pieces. Even if there were, I wouldn't use it. As much as I like Green Lantern, I wouldn't want to blatantly copy him for this game. And Emerald Radiance isn't a green space cop for sector 2814. He's just a dude that can do things with energy.

 

The picture on the right is from the current incarnation of CoH:H.