How to scare away new players.

[ZeeHero]

2 hours ago, Graviton said:

Isn't that an admission that other people are in control of your emotions?  Any yahoo who knows which button to push can drive you crazy and there's nothing you can do about it?  It's a Pavlovian response that's hard-wired? 

 

Okay, I guess.  I prefer choosing what to worry about.  If that's merely an illusion then I guess I'm a fool, but life seems to be much less exhausting this way.

 

You cant choose what bothers you. some can choose what they react to.

[ShardWarrior]

1 minute ago, ZeeHero said:

You cant choose what bothers you. some can choose what they react to.

Correct.  And in choosing what to react to, you can learn to eventually not be bothered by those same things any more.  

[ZeeHero]

1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said:

Correct.  And in choosing what to react to, you can learn to eventually not be bothered by those same things any more.  

Maybe so but at the time of originally being bothered you won't be able to not be bothered. Conditioning makes the person. the person you are at the time of being bothered determines if a specific thing will bother you.

[ShardWarrior]

1 minute ago, ZeeHero said:

Maybe so but at the time of originally being bothered you won't be able to not be bothered. Conditioning makes the person. the person you are at the time of being bothered determines if a specific thing will bother you.

Isn't that essentially what I was saying with my post?  "Learning to eventually not be bothered" sort of addresses you'll be affected the first time around.

[Prototech]

28 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

Maybe so but at the time of originally being bothered you won't be able to not be bothered. Conditioning makes the person. the person you are at the time of being bothered determines if a specific thing will bother you.

It's called taking a deep breath and getting over it. I do it 500 times a day, it's not that difficult. We all have that initial 'I'm bothered/triggered' that's human nature, the whole conversation is about the relevant part of the equation which is how we react to it. 

[THEDarkTyger]

9 hours ago, Graviton said:

Isn't that an admission that other people are in control of your emotions?  Any yahoo who knows which button to push can drive you crazy and there's nothing you can do about it?  It's a Pavlovian response that's hard-wired?

That's where it comes back to choosing how to react to being offended.

[Graviton]

16 hours ago, THEDarkTyger said:

That's where it comes back to choosing how to react to being offended.

 

Demanding that everybody else shut up so that one's apparently uncontrollable offense mechanism isn't triggered doesn't exactly count as "choosing how to react".

[AurianArchive]

On 9/25/2019 at 7:19 PM, PaxArcana said:

This is wrong on so very, very many levels.  Wrong, and deplorable.

They called us deplorable. 

 

We identified their actions as criminal. 

 

Twisted Toon was not wrong and you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to suggest otherwise. 

[THEDarkTyger]

2 hours ago, Graviton said:

 

Demanding that everybody else shut up so that one's apparently uncontrollable offense mechanism isn't triggered doesn't exactly count as "choosing how to react".

Nowhere did I say, hint, or even vaguely imply that. If you can't argue without strawmanning me, go home.

[Rager]

Dang some people take this game way too serious. I guess that is normal, since it is a hobby and all. Just reminds me of my grandpa ol fishing stories and would almost get in fist fights with another ol man calling him out on it.

 

Might as well chime in to this mess since it did give me something to read.

 

To the Op, I understand how you feel. The flaws with the game piled up, and you just want to play your main char. I feel you, and the people in this thread telling you just ignore, and others don't have power over you blah blah. We all know it is not the whole truth.

 

 

People will irk you, people will get you upset and even hurt your feelings. Nothing you or anyone else can do about that. The only thing you can control is how you handle it.  My niece growing up has to deal with this type of thing, where schools protect them from negative feelings and tend to make it like it is the end of the world. So, she has to text her uncle at times to clear her head. My answers to all of this is not a right answer. Every person has to find his or her own answer. I just tell her, that hurt feelings, broken heart, getting upset. They are just that feelings, and we should not run away from them or even be scared of them. We must all find out how to live through the good and bad times. Not force others to live by our system.

 

 

That is all I can say about this. It sucks that he upset you, but is being upset really that bad of a thing?

[SaintD]

How to scare away new players....
*laughs in Vahzilok*
Start a new Science archetype and go to your origin contact, bitch. DO IT.

Thread Title: Am I supposed to be effortlessly killed like a paraplegic child by these zombie doctor things

Edited September 29, 2019 by SaintD

[justicebeliever]

Only a robot will consistently lack emotional responses...We are not robots, everyone here, gets an emotional response to things they read/do.  If you are open to having fun, then you are open to disappointment.  If are open to laughs, you are open to cry.  If you are open to joy, then you are open to pain.  If everyone is playing this game because it's fun, then everyone on these forums is going to get triggered by disappointment and other things when their fun is found lacking.

 

Only a robot will consistently react the same way over and over again to a stimulus.  We are not robots.  Are you cranky in the morning without coffee?  Does lack of sleep make you grumpy?  When your significant other nags you, does this not irritate you in some way?  Sometimes things said to me are easily ignored, sometimes those same things are not easily ignored.  I can get better at some things, but there will always be things that get under my skin.  It's the nature of not being a robot.

 

How you feel is largely outside of your control.  There have been multiple studies on how people are influenced by pictures, sounds, smells.  If these non-judgmental environmental experiences influence your emotions, how much more do the judgmental, personalized experiences with other people influence you.

 

How you immediately react is largely outside your control.  Fight or Flight is a biochemical reaction to fear.  It is very difficult to control, but with training it can be done (therapy, conditioning, self-help book, I'm not talking about anything complicated here).

 

How you choose to react after that initial reaction is largely inside your control.  We don't have to be mean to others.  We can choose to ignore some things.  We can learn, with effort, how to not let some things bother us, but still be full in the knowledge that other things still will.

 

Empathy is, "That sucks.  I am sorry to hear about that experience."

 

Empathy is not, "You shouldn't let it bother you," because at some point, something will bother YOU and you will not want the people you share it with to be dismissive of the experience.

 

I hope for a world with more empathy, not less.  I hope that you hope for that as well...

[ShardWarrior]

3 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

Empathy is not, "You shouldn't let it bother you," because at some point, something will bother YOU and you will not want the people you share it with to be dismissive of the experience.

Saying don't let something bother you is not dismissive or telling someone to be a robot.  Trying to attribute that meaning to the statement is incorrect.  Quite clear just by reading it.  "Don't let it bother you" already acknowledges that something did bother someone.  All that was suggested is that if it does bother you, take a step back for a minute and take a deep breath and think about whether or not you want the words of some unknown person on the internet with who you have no personal connection and is of no importance to you to bother you.  Take some time, do some self analysis and practice.  If you don't want the chat of some idiot who you have no personal connection to on the internet to bother you, eventually it won't.

[Abraxus]

Perhaps "We are with you, and we got your back", or even "There are more of us, than of them.  Seek us out, and play with us.  Just block them altogether". 

 

It doesn't resolve the problem, of course, because as long as there are large groups of people that come together for any reason, there will be a small percentage that stand out because of their bad behavior.  You can't change them, and you really can't make sense of why they do, what they do.  If you give them any inkling that you care about what they say, or do, they will do it even more intensely.  So, my .02 of a dollars worth is always, set your bar high.  Anyone who doesn't meet your comfort level of behavior, kick 'em to the curb, and keep seeking out the majority who will always meet those standards.

[MunkiLord]

23 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Saying don't let something bother you is not dismissive or telling someone to be a robot.  Trying to attribute that meaning to the statement is incorrect. 

But if that is how people consistently perceive such a statement, I feel like a different approach would be the most practical solution. Because it's much easier to adjust my wording rather than attempting to change the way people see such statements. How someone says something and how others perceive that statement is at least as important as what they actually say. I realize that is frequently easier said than done, especially in nothing more than text. I just think it's the most practical way to approach the issue.

 

This is why despite me being extremely interested in this topic, I have been relatively quiet in this thread.

[ShardWarrior]

1 minute ago, MunkiLord said:

But if that is how people consistently perceive such a statement,

Not everyone perceived it that way though. 

[justicebeliever]

@ShardWarrior, I'm only quoting you because you specifically quoted me.  I am not specifically calling you out.  My assumption here is that your responses come from a good place of wanting people to not feel negative emotions unnecessarily.

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

All that was suggested is that if it does bother you, take a step back for a minute and take a deep breath and think about whether or not you want the words of some unknown person on the internet with who you have no personal connection and is of no importance to you to bother you.  Take some time, do some self analysis and practice. 

This is a great response, well thought out and helpful.  It's not empathetic, but it's very courteous.  It's great advice as well.

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

If you don't want the chat of some idiot who you have no personal connection to on the internet to bother you, eventually it won't.

This is anecdotal.  I know you mean well @ShardWarrior, but you are speaking from your own personal experience.  Anecdotal data isn't wrong, but it is seldom representative of the whole. 

 

Emotional Control is just like muscular control or cognitive thinking.  You can improve your muscular control, but not everyone has the genes to be Michael Jordan.  You wouldn't say, "Well, if you just throw enough free throws, eventually you'll be an NBA player."  Now granted, if you want to be an NBA player, you gotta throw a lot of free throws.  But just because every NBA player worked really hard to get there, that does not conversely mean that everyone who works hard to be an NBA player will be.  You wouldn't tell your kid, "Gee, you are super smart.  Just keep applying yourself in school and eventually you'll be Albert Einstein."  Because while working hard in school can increase your cognition, it won't make you into a genius.  It's the same with emotional response.  Just because this works for you, doesn't mean it works well for everyone.

 

What I don't understand is why ANYONE would dig in, and just say, "Well yes, my advice works for everyone"?  Just acknowledge it isn't always true and move on.  

2 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Saying don't let something bother you is not dismissive or telling someone to be a robot.  Trying to attribute that meaning to the statement is incorrect.  Quite clear just by reading it.  "Don't let it bother you" already acknowledges that something did bother someone. 

First off, I wan't to be clear.  It's not rude to say, "Don't let it bother you".  It absolutely does not mean you are telling someone to be a robot.  However, it's not helpful, it's not empathetic, and it is totally dismissive, but it is polite, and we shouldn't call out anyone saying that as any kind of a troll or monster.

 

The phrase does acknowledge that something happened.  But being dismissive isn't about acknowledgment of the state of something.  It's dismissive because it doesn't acknowledge the importance of the impact something had on the other person.  Dismissive means you are saying the other persons emotional state is unworthy of consideration.  And if we say "Just don't let it bother you," we are telling that person that their feelings are wrong, and they should not feel them.  It's also condescending because it assumes that other person hasn't already figured out this wonderful nugget of wisdom and is just too lazy or too incompetent to implement it.

 

If I tried to tell me wife, when things are going bad for her at work, to just "not let it bother her"...well, it would be too ugly to comprehend.  Now the argument would be, well, this isn't about things going bad at work, this is just a small thing.  And I agree, this is a small thing.  And so, it shouldn't be a big thing to just acknowledge the person's feelings and motor on.  Let them manage their own emotions.  We all vent...and we  all vent about the stupidest things sometimes.  And sometimes venting is all that's needed to let something go.

[justicebeliever]

1 hour ago, MunkiLord said:

But if that is how people consistently perceive such a statement, I feel like a different approach would be the most practical solution. Because it's much easier to adjust my wording rather than attempting to change the way people see such statements. How someone says something and how others perceive that statement is at least as important as what they actually say. I realize that is frequently easier said than done, especially in nothing more than text. I just think it's the most practical way to approach the issue.

 

This is why despite me being extremely interested in this topic, I have been relatively quiet in this thread.

QFT.  I've found much more success in life by altering my words as needed to ensure the other person get's my intended meaning.  So many fights...and I'm not just talking about Internet fights, I'm talking between siblings, parent/child, significant others, friends, so many fights are because the other person isn't getting the intended meaning, and then both people get angry.  You get upset that you  weren't understood, and the other person gets upset because they took your words the wrong way.

 

Why live that way if you don't have to?  If you have a choice in life between being right or being kind, I choose kind.  Well, at least I try to.  And I fail as well.  And I deserve to be called out when I do.  And I should own it when I am caught.  It's also why I'm always on the warpath about not assuming other peoples motives.  If a statement like, "Don't let it bother you" can stir debate about people's motives, we are in a sad, sad place.

[ShardWarrior]

2 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

However, it's not helpful, it's not empathetic, and it is totally dismissive

At this point, let's agree to disagree. 

 

It's none of those things you've said here as I've explained already - repeatedly - no matter what words you try to interject into it.  If you like, I can provide some examples of what a non-helpful, non empathetic and dismissive response is.  You seem to be going to great lengths to try and jump through a myriad of hoops to try and add some contrary, negative meanings to my intent.  I can assure you, you're way, way, way off base.  You're not even remotely close.  What you and others are failing to understand is your reaction is part of the issue for you. 

 

As I explained, not letting it bother you is something that can be learned over time and assuming the person wants to try.  If they don't want to or simply can't do it no matter what, more power to them.   I also stated this works for me, works for most people I know and is perhaps something someone may want to try and see if it works for them.  If it doesn't then no harm, no foul.  Never once did I say what works for me is an incontrovertible, irrefutable, absolute truth for everyone.  That's just plain nonsense.  It's simple advice for something to try.  That's all.

 

It's just a suggestion for something to try to help another person feel better.  If you feel it is dismissive, non empathetic or whatever, then so bet it.  Just understand that isn't the intent.  At all.

[justicebeliever]

3 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

It's just a suggestion for something to try to help another person feel better.  If you feel it is dismissive, non empathetic or whatever, then so bet it.  Just understand that isn't the intent.  At all.

But if it doesn't accomplish the intent, what's the point in holding onto the expression so tightly?

 

You're the one who responded to me initially.  And as I said, in my response to your response, this wasn't specifically directed at you, because I know there is zero negative intent when you say it. 

 

But I can live with agree to disagree.

[ShardWarrior]

8 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

But if it doesn't accomplish the intent, what's the point in holding onto the expression so tightly?

Not quite sure I understand where you are having difficulty in understanding this?  "Don't let it bother you" is not "here's a tissue and a hug, let's have a good cry together".  It's more an "I understand you're upset and would like to help.  Here is something to try - maybe it will help you prevent being bothered by this kind of thing again."

 

Does that work or does it need to be explained yet again?

[subbacultchas]

1 hour ago, justicebeliever said:

Why live that way if you don't have to?  If you have a choice in life between being right or being kind, I choose kind.  Well, at least I try to.  And I fail as well.  And I deserve to be called out when I do.  And I should own it when I am caught.  It's also why I'm always on the warpath about not assuming other peoples motives.  If a statement like, "Don't let it bother you" can stir debate about people's motives, we are in a sad, sad place.

This, very very much. Took me a long time to get there, and stop feeding the need to be right. But it's worth it to me, every struggle along the way, to be able to help and show just basic kindness. 

[GM Capocollo]

In my personal, non-GM opinion as a player, I think telling someone "don't let it offend you" is as useful as telling someone who's just stepped on a Lego with bare feet to "don't let it dig into your foot".  Emotional pain is just as real as physical pain; you can choose to react to it in constructive or destructive ways, but telling someone that they shouldn't have felt it in the first place doesn't actually help anything, and puts the onus on the target rather than the initial cause of the issue.

[ShardWarrior]

5 minutes ago, GM Capocollo said:

In my personal, non-GM opinion as a player, I think telling someone "don't let it offend you" is as useful as telling someone who's just stepped on a Lego with bare feet to "don't let it dig into your foot".  Emotional pain is just as real as physical pain; you can choose to react to it in constructive or destructive ways, but telling someone that they shouldn't have felt it in the first place doesn't actually help anything, and puts the onus on the target rather than the initial cause of the issue.

Out of curiosity did you read the rest of the thread?

[MunkiLord]

1 hour ago, justicebeliever said:

QFT.  I've found much more success in life by altering my words as needed to ensure the other person get's my intended meaning.  So many fights...and I'm not just talking about Internet fights, I'm talking between siblings, parent/child, significant others, friends, so many fights are because the other person isn't getting the intended meaning, and then both people get angry.  You get upset that you  weren't understood, and the other person gets upset because they took your words the wrong way.

 

Why live that way if you don't have to?  If you have a choice in life between being right or being kind, I choose kind.  Well, at least I try to.  And I fail as well.  And I deserve to be called out when I do.  And I should own it when I am caught.  It's also why I'm always on the warpath about not assuming other peoples motives.  If a statement like, "Don't let it bother you" can stir debate about people's motives, we are in a sad, sad place.

This is a skill that I didn't really appreciate until I was bartending and had to cut people off. I had to learn to give people news they'd hate and potentially embarrass them. The goal was for them to perceive me doing them a favor and not that I was attacking them or calling them a drunk asshole, even if I thought they were.