Code of Conduct Update - September 25th 2019

[Doc_Scorpion]

3 minutes ago, Sylar said:

the wiki clearly states here that while THEY did settle out of court, the points they made in court were "frivolous" and the court was not happy about it, they settled because they knew they lost, its pretty simple.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Heroes#Lawsuit

0.o  It's almost like you didn't actually read the material you linked to.  If you had, you'd have noticed it was the defendants who called the suit "frivolous" - which is nothing but meaningless posturing before the court.  Nor is there anything in there about the court being happy or unhappy, that's something you've pulled out of thin air.  In the same vein, the assumption that they settled because they knew they had lost is also something you've pulled out of a place that would get me moderated for name.

Or, to put it simply, you're 0-for-3.
 

8 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

Just a small point of clarity:  You also settle if you're up against someone who will drag you through the courts for so long that you end up bankrupt, even if you win the case.

Precisely this.  We have absolutely no idea who cried "Uncle" and caved.  It could just as easily been NCSoft as Marvel.

[PaxArcana]

1 minute ago, CR Tempest said:

Please be civil with one another or else.

😄  Fixed that for you.  😄 

[MunkiLord]

HC is doing what it feels is needed to protect itself. I fully support that.

 

 

1 hour ago, BladedDingo said:

Honestly,  great. I was kind of sick of the unoriginal knockoffs. 

On the other hand, this is a dumbass and petty way to feel. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by MunkiLord

[Sylar]

Just now, PaxArcana said:

Sylar, seriously, it's clear you're not going to be happy here, with the new policy.

Serious, honest advice time:

 

The code is out there, available.  Grab a copy, run your own server, and you can have whatever policies you want ... or none at all, if that's what you prefer.

 

I honestly suspect you'll be happier doing that.

i'm not angry, a lot of people take text out of context or assume your emotions, i am upset about the change sure, i mean i do like my characters that are inspired or cloned, no shame in that whatsoever, i do have my own server, i run it for a select few friends, but thats for soloing, i love teaming, i use HC because it's the most populated server, if people can't express their thoughts over changes then what's the point in making announcements with the ability to reply? so we should just accept everything and not give criticism or suggestions right? sounds like Totalitarianism.

[Haijinx]

29 minutes ago, Matt_Miracle said:

Since this is now in place for the server, I will default to how I handled it on Live.

• Does the character have the same outfit?
• Does the character have the same name?
• Does the character have the same powers?
• Does the character have the same Bio?

If I can answer YES to 3 or 4  of those questions, I would report.  If is just any 2 of the 4, then nope.

 

Maybe someone wanted to create a Claws / Regen scrapper that was named "the" Wolverine BUT was dressed as the Michigan Wolverines and had a completely unique bio. The only people I could think of that would have an issue with this would be OSU fans for the character using the word "the" in regards to OSU's biggest rival.

How much longer do they still count as rivals though?

 

I mean at some point Michigan would have to win again, wouldn't they?

[PaxArcana]

2 minutes ago, Sylar said:

[...] if people can't express their thoughts over changes [...]

I never said you couldn't express your opinion.  You're welcome to it, and I won't argue with it.

 

It's when you've misrepresented facts, that I've felt compelled to rebut your claims.

 

Also: you say you're not angry, but damn son, you're looking pretty steamed from here.

[MunkiLord]

33 minutes ago, Matt_Miracle said:

The only people I could think of that would have an issue with this would be OSU fans for the character using the word "the" in regards to OSU's biggest rival.

Thankfully they lost that trademark application. They should be fined for even attempting it. 

[ChocolateMercenary]

1 hour ago, Allekto said:

How will that work with names that are in the public domain but are used by a comic company?

 

Example: Thor.  Marvel owns their own likeness of Thor, but not the name (The old Comico comic company also had a Thor character with a completely different likeness).  Mythological names have been used by multiple companies.

Marvel owns The Mighty Thor™. Just don't use any of his comic or MCU costumes.

[Sylar]

Just now, PaxArcana said:

I never said you couldn't express your opinion.  You're welcome to it, and I won't argue with it.

 

It's when you've misrepresented facts, that I've felt compelled to rebut your claims.

 

Also: you say you're not angry, but damn son, you're looking pretty steamed from here.

assume what you want, im telling you im not angry, take it or leave it i really dont care, im all for rebuttals and discussions, but some people in this thread feel the need to be rude and be insulting when i had legitimate points as to why this is stupid, but i notice a trend, someone speaks against a change, people jump in like its cancel culture, iv'e made my point pretty clearly, people can agree or disagree, its not going to ruin someones day either way.

[Matt_Miracle]

9 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

How much longer do they still count as rivals though?

 

I mean at some point Michigan would have to win again, wouldn't they?

I don't know...I am a U.K. Wildcat fan living in the back yard of OSU and the BIG 10.  Also, I follow more NASCAR than any other sport.  

I guess I will have to decommission my concept for a new character (called "The King") after getting as close to "Petty Blue" as I can.... 🙂 [yes, that was sarcasm.  Besides, where can I put sponsors on the outfit?]

[Snakebit]

1 minute ago, Sylar said:

assume what you want, im telling you im not angry, take it or leave it i really dont care, im all for rebuttals and discussions, but some people in this thread feel the need to be rude and be insulting when i had legitimate points as to why this is stupid, but i notice a trend, someone speaks against a change, people jump in like its cancel culture, iv'e made my point pretty clearly, people can agree or disagree, its not going to ruin someones day either way.

 

Everything you posted was either factually incorrect or objectively selfish. You are willing to expose the Homecoming team to the repercussions of expensive and invasive civil litigation so you can have things your way. That is detrimental to everyone.  I'm surprised that you didn't foresee internet backlash. 

[Abraxus]

There was a previous thread discussing this very topic a few weeks ago, which dragged on for many pages, with passionate responses on both sides, and that was just when it was just theoretical!  Now that it has been instituted, those that expressed concern in that thread will no doubt see their fears realized, and those that didn't care will be conversely unaffected.  Actually, none of us will be adversely affected in the larger scheme of things.  It's just that some might have to make adjustments to the name, or appearance of their toon.  Certainly not as traumatic as having the entire thing shut down, as it was 7 years ago. 

 

As I said, If the generic-bat hits my tribute character (again L50+++), then I'll adjust, and keep on playing him with a more heavily applied guise of parody.

[subbacultchas]

6 minutes ago, ChocolateMercenary said:

Marvel owns The Mighty Thor™. Just don't use any of his comic or MCU costumes.

I get that, but I still don't think it's that simple. The winged helmet, mjolnir and meginjord, are all based off of the mythological character's garb.

[MunkiLord]

1 hour ago, Allekto said:

How will that work with names that are in the public domain but are used by a comic company?

 

Example: Thor.  Marvel owns their own likeness of Thor, but not the name (The old Comico comic company also had a Thor character with a completely different likeness).  Mythological names have been used by multiple companies.

In general I would think the smaller the organization the more it benefits them to play it safe. If Thor shows up in the next God of War game and Disney has a problem with it, Sony will just tell them to piss off and be fine. If Disney were to take issue with HC for something similar, HC would be wise to immediately back down as lawyers are expensive. 

[Felis Noctu]

2 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

Trademark is a nasty thing: if you don't protect it, you LOSE it.

And to add on to that, for people who may not understand the different categories, trademark is different from copyright is different from patent.

 

(Disclaimer: Not a lawyer, but have had to personally deal with these topics before. These are all being described in relation to how they apply to Homecoming.)

 

 

-----

* A trademark is a word, phrase, symbol, and/or design that identifies and distinguishes goods, services, or the source of such, must be deliberately registered, and must be actively defended as it represents an identity. Names will open HC up for legal action through trademark, as with enough similarity they could be misconstrued as being used in an official manner.

TL;DR: Trademark protects identity. If you don't defend the identity, you lose it to someone else who will.

 

* A copyright is a set of rights granted to you immediately once you have created an original work. It lasts for a certain period of time after creation, and is protected through clear publishing that documents a rough date and time as well as the creating entity. A copyright is generally lost only if someone else can successfully prove they came up with it first. Copyright is also a legal mess of loopholes ripe for abuse by any party, as well as protections regarding fair-use and derivative works, many of which can't be 100% guaranteed until precedent has been set in court. Visual representations will open HC up for legal action through copyright.

TL;DR: Copyright protects a specific work. You don't HAVE to specifically defend a copyright, but companies often do because it in part represents their image. If something harmful is mistaken for a first party official version of something, it can hurt the company itself.

 

* A patent is a set of rights granted by registration of an idea, that allows the owner to maintain certain rights of the original while opening up the general concept to others to develop on. It's not something we'd be particularly worried about here, as anything that could fall under patent is going to be more easily enforced through trademark or copyright.

TL;DR: Patent doesn't really apply to Homecoming, as the concept of superheroes is generic and wide.

[Haijinx]

Just now, subbacultchas said:

I get that, but I still don't think it's that simple. The winged helmet, mjolnir and meginjord, are all based off of the mythological character's garb.

I would think Thor in any incarnation is going to be out.  Since that's a pretty huge Marvel character.

 

Maybe you could away with a Tyr or Freya or something.

[subbacultchas]

1 minute ago, Haijinx said:

I would think Thor in any incarnation is going to be out.  Since that's a pretty huge Marvel character.

 

Maybe you could away with a Tyr or Freya or something.

I would make Tyr in a hearbeat, were there a costume missing a hand. He was always my favorite of the Norse gods.

Edited September 25, 2019 by subbacultchas

[Haijinx]

2 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

In general I would think the smaller the organization the more it benefits them to play it safe. If Thor shows up in the next God of War game and Disney has a problem with it, Sony will just tell them to piss off and be fine. If Disney were to take issue with HC for something similar, HC would be wise to immediately back down as lawyers are expensive. 

COH being a comic book game is also probably pertinent.  

 

 

[Sylar]

9 minutes ago, cejmp said:

 

Everything you posted was either factually incorrect or objectively selfish. You are willing to expose the Homecoming team to the repercussions of expensive and invasive civil litigation so you can have things your way. That is detrimental to everyone.  I'm surprised that you didn't foresee internet backlash. 

everything you posted was just to insult and belittle me,  i didn't use verbatim when it came about the lawsuits etc, but my initial point still stands and is very valid, the server isn't legal, if Marvel attempted to sue before and it was a tie , then there isn't any concern of them trying again when in the main stream of things it is still relatively unknown, so again, i will say that since the server itself isn't legal and with them finding out a private server has been around since 2012 , why would they play nice? of course some may know more than me and i expect so, but still doesn't explain why they need to protect themselves when the project is illegal to begin with, they would have more of a field day with the hidden server for 7 years +.

 

EDIT: also doesn't excuse people pushing me off this game just because they disagree.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Sylar

[MunkiLord]

2 minutes ago, Felis Noctu said:

 

* A trademark is a word, phrase, symbol, and/or design that identifies and distinguishes goods, services, or the source of such, must be deliberately registered, and must be actively defended as it represents an identity. Names will open HC up for legal action through trademark, as with enough similarity they could be misconstrued as being used in an official manner.

TL;DR: Trademark protects identity. If you don't defend the identity, you lose it to someone else who will.

I'm not positive on this, but I have a feeling you may know, but isn't it also true that trademark violations aren't covered by CDA Section 230 and DMCA protections for website owners/hosts? 

[Troo]

Good times!

[Abraxus]

...and here we GO!  Again. 😉

[MunkiLord]

6 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

COH being a comic book game is also probably pertinent.  

 

 

That is certainly an argument Disney lawyers would make, but I'm not sure it actually matters so long as HC use of Thor is distinctive. If some movie studio were to make a Beauty and the Beast film there isn't anything Disney could do about it (assuming of course they aren't using Disney changes to the story or images). 

[Snakebit]

8 minutes ago, Sylar said:

everything you posted was just to insult and belittle me,  i didn't use verbatim when it came about the lawsuits etc, but my initial point still stands and is very valid, the server isn't legal, if Marvel attempted to sue before and it was a tie , then there isn't any concern of them trying again when in the main stream of things it is still relatively unknown, so again, i will say that since the server itself isn't legal and with them finding out a private server has been around since 2012 , why would they play nice? of course some may know more than me and i expect so, but still doesn't explain why they need to protect themselves when the project is illegal to begin with, they would have more of a field day with the hidden server for 7 years +.

 

EDIT: also doesn't excuse people pushing me off this game just because they disagree.

 

I don't know you. I have no reason to belittle you. What you posted....

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by cejmp

[ed fray]

DRAT, ran out of pop-corn again. 🙁