Everything else sucks compared to AE farming

[Darth_Helmet]

3 hours ago, roleki said:

Can someone please articulate an actual PROBLEM caused by AE farming?  "I don't like it!" or "It's too easy!"  or "They aren't pressing the buttons the same way I do" just do not seem like valid complaints to me.

 

Personally I think the biggest downside to farming in AE , and having AE missions you can both AFK and also tailor to be the most efficient xp/inf per hour is you further fracture the population. 

 

I've always been a fan of the mechanics that help keep the population "together" . I believe the best aspects of CoH are social, and I think that having a "farming" culture that promoted teams, story arcs and social interaction would be superior to the current system of AE farming where the best ( most efficient) inf/xp can be had by having a brute power level a door sitter while one or both are AFK.

 

To me, the harm seems pretty obvious...a sort of broken mini game within the game that actually gives better rewards than the game itself.

 

To combat this, I would radically buff team xp on non AE missions so that people playing story arcs and doing content are rewarded more than a farmer AFK or a door sitter who is AFK.

 

That's just my opinion.  There is no right answer...there are only directions to go as a community. I would prefer a more social, team oriented. 'Natural', less min maxed direction if it was up to me.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Darth_Helmet

[TheSpiritFox]

12 minutes ago, Darth_Helmet said:

Personally I think the biggest downside to farming in AE , and having AE missions you can both AFK and also tailor to be the most efficient xp/inf per hour is you further fracture the population. 

 

I've always been a fan of the mechanics that help keep the population "together" . I believe the best aspects of CoH are social, and I think that having a "farming" culture that promoted teams, story arcs and social interaction would be superior to the current system of AE farming where the best ( most efficient) inf/xp can be had by having a brute power level a door sitter while one or both are AFK.

 

To me, the harm seems pretty obvious...a sort of broken mini game within the game that actually gives better rewards than the game itself.

 

To combat this, I would radically buff team xp on non AE missions so that people playing story arcs and doing content are rewarded more than a farmer AFK or a door sitter who is AFK.

 

That's just my opinion.  There is no right answer...there are only directions to go as a community. I would prefer a more social, team oriented. 'Natural', less min maxed direction if it was up to me.

This would break the leveling out of arcs system currently set up. There's already X2 xp, doing more would mean you outlevel arcs half way through them if you actually wanted to try to take on story content. You'd have to go and fuck with whatever limits exist on arc levels just to accommodate a loud minority of players who are jealous of PLing gains while decrying the method. 

 

And unless you want to crash server populations it's not a good idea to take away min max stuff because you don't want to engage with it. I get wanting things to be social. You can't artificially force people to engage in social things they don't want to. The farmer who is alone in his farm probably would just be playing something else if they were forced to team to do everything.  You're starting to get into social engineering to have the game experience you specifically want territory. Why people think this is ok to do to other players I have no idea. Maybe because companies have shamelessly done it to us for years to meet their profit goals. This is a free game we play for fun, largely to relive the nostalgia and enjoy an MMO that's more open to let us play how we want, while you play how you want. 

4

Edited October 15, 2019 by TheSpiritFox

[roleki]

18 minutes ago, Darth_Helmet said:

Personally I think the biggest downside to farming in AE , and having AE missions you can both AFK and also tailor to be the most efficient xp/inf per hour is you further fracture the population. 

 

I've always been a fan of the mechanics that help keep the population "together" . I believe the best aspects of CoH are social, and I think that having a "farming" culture that promoted teams, story arcs and social interaction would be superior to the current system of AE farming where the best ( most efficient) inf/xp can be had by having a brute power level a door sitter while one or both are AFK.

 

To me, the harm seems pretty obvious...a sort of broken mini game within the game that actually gives better rewards than the game itself.

 

To combat this, I would radically buff team xp on non AE missions so that people playing story arcs and doing content are rewarded more than a farmer AFK or a door sitter who is AFK.

 

That's just my opinion.  There is no right answer...there are only directions to go as a community. I would prefer a more social, team oriented. 'Natural', less min maxed direction if it was up to me.

I get that, but It's kind of weird, because the people I developed the most in-game (and out-of-game) camaraderie with... were fellow farmers who I met while we were out driving our alts around.  We spend most of our time farming up and yammering away, one of us clearing the map, the other parked at the door.  Point being, farming can be just as social an activity as anything else in the game, and in some cases even moreso, because - as tuned farmers blowing through mobs without need for coordination of buffs/tactics- we can actually discuss things AND melt faces simultaneously.   

Again, YMMV, but plenty of people are getting what they want out of the game just as it is, hand-wringing or no.

[Darth_Helmet]

33 minutes ago, roleki said:

Again, YMMV, but plenty of people are getting what they want out of the game just as it is, hand-wringing or no.

 

I think you misunderstand me. I've got 2 farmers logged in right now. I've also had some pretty nice interactions with other farmers. 

 

I was just responding to a question, and answering it. One person's harm is another person's enjoyment. 

 

Without people playing content , and story arcs...I see no point in farming. So the biggest harm I see would be in making farming more rewarding than the content itself...and people losing interest in the content.

 

I'd personally rather see content reward equally or even more than AE...so it would be just as efficient to blow through content as it would AE missions...or even more rewarding since it takes a more well rounded character and skillset.

 

I'm definitely not wringing my hands, just answering the guys question and giving my opinion. I was farming in 2004 before AE existed...so I'm not anti farming by any means. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Darth_Helmet

[Lines]

4 hours ago, Darth_Helmet said:

Without people playing content , and story arcs...I see no point in farming. So the biggest harm I see would be in making farming more rewarding than the content itself...and people losing interest in the content.

 

I'd personally rather see content reward equally or even more than AE...so it would be just as efficient to blow through content as it would AE missions...or even more rewarding since it takes a more well rounded character and skillset.

 

You’re right in the potential problem with farming, which may be a very, very long-term effect. If it ever reaches the point that content is something that happens irregularly and hastily between farming, I’d like to be long gone. But I believe enough of the community is like-minded enough not to exclusively play to farm. We didn’t get this game back in order to not play it. (Disclaimer: not arguing anti-farm. Just an unlikely worst-case scenario)

 

But I don’t think the content should match AE for rewards. For me, the process and challenge of going 1-50 is still important and I enjoy the narrative of character progression - it’s pretty defining of an RPG. I think it should retain its pace; accelerating it would water down an already overly-forgiving game. Even DXP is a little too fast for outpacing the stories, and it’s not like it’s difficult to make millions of inf.

 

I think risk/reward should be looked at, but maybe not with regards to xp. I’d like to see some unlockables return or be put in place. In fact, I think the live devs missed an opportunity to make AE assets unlockable through playing content.

 

AE can do what it does, but shouldn’t be the baseline for progression.

[Schizophobia]

hmmm

 

is a guy i've known since shortly before live went down. he likes to farm. man does he love to farm. when coh came back, he went right back to it.

 

i've seen him literally farm 24+ hours straight. like, i went to bed, woke up, did my whole morning routine. this guy? still at it. he's got like three accounts. everyday he's leveling a new alt, trying a new farmer. sometimes he even actively plays 2+ characters at once, he loves that shit. says it meditative, relaxing, fun. enjoys making his millions and kitting out his peeps. even lets other people join, cause hey, why not? someone to chat with while he goes.

 

me? i don't like farmin that much. i mean its okay, but i get bored. it makes me anxious. i don't like that.

 

but that guy, he loves it. and when i think about taking that away from him? man, im so sad. i don't want to be party to ruining what he has. when this game came back, dude, i cried. i love running dumb paper missions, making totally useless characters. making totally awesome characters. doing occasional tfs, playing with friends, that's my jam. i'd be sad if someone took that away again, too.

 

game means different things to different people, appreciate and respect that. try not to think of the game as something to be fixed, just something we're all lucky to enjoy again.

 

that's all i got on this topic. 😞

[roleki]

5 hours ago, Lines said:

 

You’re right in the potential problem with farming, which may be a very, very long-term effect. If it ever reaches the point that content is something that happens irregularly and hastily between farming, I’d like to be long gone. But I believe enough of the community is like-minded enough not to exclusively play to farm. We didn’t get this game back in order to not play it. (Disclaimer: not arguing anti-farm. Just an unlikely worst-case scenario)

 

But I don’t think the content should match AE for rewards. For me, the process and challenge of going 1-50 is still important and I enjoy the narrative of character progression - it’s pretty defining of an RPG. I think it should retain its pace; accelerating it would water down an already overly-forgiving game. Even DXP is a little too fast for outpacing the stories, and it’s not like it’s difficult to make millions of inf.

 

I think risk/reward should be looked at, but maybe not with regards to xp. I’d like to see some unlockables return or be put in place. In fact, I think the live devs missed an opportunity to make AE assets unlockable through playing content.

 

AE can do what it does, but shouldn’t be the baseline for progression.

I don't know how much of a PITA it is to do such things, but, maybe develop accolades tied to progression content (not AE, not flashback) that grant permanent bonuses that stack or evolve with repetition?  

 

Like say, you plow through the Hollows content when you're supposed to (between 5 and 15); you get a Level 1 Hollows Accolade, that gives every attack a 2% chance to do 2% more damage or something.  Now that level 1 is unlocked, if you go through the hollows exemplar'd, you get a level 2 accolade that gives a 4% chance to do 4% more damage.  Third time, 6 and 6, and so on up to 10 and 10.   Then you move over to Perez and get a 1% ToHit buff (through 5), and in Steel you get a 2% DefBuff, and so on and so on.

 

If that seems like too much of a bonus, have the accolades earned at low levels only apply in endgame content (i.e. hollows bonus is only active in PI, then maybe a perez bonus that is active in RWZ, and so on) or only when you have a team of 4 or more, or something.  

 

I dunno, just spitballing some ideas that might entice ME to level my alts the old fashioned way, while still leaving AE unharmed.

[jubakumbi]

IMO, one either wants to play the game, whatever parts of it, or not.

 

Personally, I am not looking to any specific development, addition, reduction, change, or general buff to make me want to play the game.

I either want to play it, or I don't.

It' my choice, based on my mood and has nothing to do with anything specific in the game, I am in the mood or not.

Being given a bonus to play specific content is simply a carrot I ignore, I do it in all games, I hardly ever play the current 'event' in any game unless it happens to be what I feel like doing.

 

The extroverts that love teams want more forced teaming.

The 'content-ists' think we are all cheating by not reading every word in the game.

The fornulae players think we should 'wait here' for the tank.

The farmers want to be left alone.

The general player just wants to play the game.

 

Why do we have to pour over the mintuae looking for things to change, when we can just play the game.

And if you are not in the mood to play the game, then don't, and come back whne you do, why the need to force changes on everyone, just because a few players are 'done' with a certain aspect of the game at them moment?

 

I have never understood why people cannot just let this game be what it is w/o having to think everything needs to be changed.

This has been a revolving issue since Day 0 of Retail Live.

Please, gamers,  just play the game the way you want tp play it and stop trying to change it?

Is it really so hard?

[jshmoe1236123]

1 hour ago, jubakumbi said:

IMO, one either wants to play the game, whatever parts of it, or not.

 

Personally, I am not looking to any specific development, addition, reduction, change, or general buff to make me want to play the game.

I either want to play it, or I don't.

It' my choice, based on my mood and has nothing to do with anything specific in the game, I am in the mood or not.

Being given a bonus to play specific content is simply a carrot I ignore, I do it in all games, I hardly ever play the current 'event' in any game unless it happens to be what I feel like doing.

 

The extroverts that love teams want more forced teaming.

The 'content-ists' think we are all cheating by not reading every word in the game.

The fornulae players think we should 'wait here' for the tank.

The farmers want to be left alone.

The general player just wants to play the game.

 

Why do we have to pour over the mintuae looking for things to change, when we can just play the game.

And if you are not in the mood to play the game, then don't, and come back whne you do, why the need to force changes on everyone, just because a few players are 'done' with a certain aspect of the game at them moment?

 

I have never understood why people cannot just let this game be what it is w/o having to think everything needs to be changed.

This has been a revolving issue since Day 0 of Retail Live.

Please, gamers,  just play the game the way you want tp play it and stop trying to change it?

Is it really so hard?

 

This all day long.

 

I'd much rather devs spend time fixing actual bugs than trying to fix a problem that doesn't even exist.  There are going to be bad players with or without AE.  There are going to be players that, "don't know how to play their toons" with or without AE.  All of that existed prior to AE.  It exists in every game.  Why waste the manpower on changing anything because that's all it will be?  A change and not a "fix."  

[brigg]

On 9/25/2019 at 7:23 AM, jubakumbi said:

IMO, this is imply trying to make the game something it is not....

 

This game is about making a (super) hero and fightin' bad guys.

In a comics style universe.

 

We have a danger room where you can get ready to fight crime, quickly.

We now have a world where acquiring the eq needed is easy.

 

So where is the problem?

If you want to play the game gritty and hard, you can.

If you want to go into the danger room and PL to the end, you can.

If you want to use all or none of the rewards, you can.

 

All based around personal responcibility and self discipline, rather than being coerced or forced to play the game a certain way to get the character you have in mind.

No one forces anyone to get all the things as fast as possible other than ones self.

I like how you put this. A danger room to prepare you for the endgame content. And that Homecoming offers options. On Live, the Devs were constantly trying to derail powerleveling. But it was a losing battle. Someone always finds a way. I never understood why they fought it. If people didn't want to do it, nobody was forcing them to. After a couple of years of grinding out story content, I was burnt out. I tried running only Taskforces, but after a couple years, that eventually got old too. Powerleveling myself and others kept me subscribed up until Sunset. I wasn't powerleveling 100%, but it was an option I still had when I didn't feel like story content.

[nightroarer]

On 10/11/2019 at 11:08 PM, TheSpiritFox said:

Ha ok. 

City of Heroes is a very grindy game. Grind serves the specific purpose of extending the time investment required to achieve things, which serves the specific purpose of keeping you paying your subscription to City of Heroes. 

CoH is my favorite MMO in part because of the fact that it does not feel all that grindy to me. However, I realize that different players have a different take on what constitutes grind. Playing through storyline missions is where the fun is for me, much more so that repetitive raids or PvP. Yet I often see players talk about "grinding missions." If something feels like a grind to me, I don't do it all that much. I'm not here to work, I'm here to play.

 

I think one thing I like is that it does not feel like there is a *required* grind. That is, if I want to craft, I do. If I don't want to, I don't. Same goes for most aspects of CoH. The game is perfectly playable whether one chooses to grind specific things or not. Variability of playstyle is one of the great strengths of this game.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Ok I could write a thesis worthy of a doctorate trying to cover all the talking points in this thread. But I shall do me very best to focus on the bullet points.

 

The number one issue imo with AE farming is that it became a reason to significantly reduce AE rewards. The main reason, the main vocal part of the community wanted AE came from the RPG community of Virtue. A fair few of the devs actually spent a good bit of their personal game time on that server as was well known to the community. This is one reason why we among the many MMO have so many emotes, so much flavor that really is just fat needing to be cut in the eyes of the meta gamers.

 

This was the first real rift imo in the coh community because up till then RPGers on virtue had no real issue playing with the non RPers on the server. When I think back it was after this division that many RPers myself included tended to be less tolerant of non RPers, This is when I really started to see the more hard line use of OOC(( )) and many refusing to talk OOC at all basically forcing non RPers to either go lite RP or go to another server.

 

It was a line in the sand made against those who because of a lack of self control and a need for personal gratification basically broke a toy made first and foremost for the RPers. No other MM ever came anywhere close to what we got with AE. Any of us with a minimal amount of experience can make content to expand our game world. In fact the makers themselves cryptic failed to do half as well in the next generation with their foundry on NWN and STO.

 

The worst part is the PL meta gamers dont even need custom AE farms to PL in a timely manner. I mean sure a day or two isnt an hour or two, but you could do a sewer team or two, then go knock out posi 1-2, then go doa  few fast easy arcs like the hollows and faultline arcs for some massive easy merit rewards. then a peny yin, a citadel, a moonfire, your going to be at least into the 30s by then in a day or two of pretty mellow and varied play. By then you will know if the power sets/AT are rigth for you or you need to  shelve and reroll. And all them lovely merits can easily be liquidated into inf and mailed on to a future alt.

 

Now for the 30+ just go do a few MSR. They are practically dailys now and you will def fly to 50 doing them. and likely faster then any AE farm could.  Honestly if stopping PLers is a goal HC team cares about a bigger fix would be putting the level lock back on the RWZ. Not something I am suggesting nor endorsing fyi.

 

Honestly I think at this point the only real way to give AE back to content creators and be able to roll back the many nerfs to AE rewards would be the introduction of instant lvl 50 at the P2W. Understand I doubt Id ever use this feature myself, I doubt many RPers or content players would, but if that is what the PLer meta game crowd want I am done trying to put them on the other side.

 

So I ask all fellow gamers of every walk, would it not be better to just give auto 50 to those who want it, if in return we could have AE once again give meaningful rewards comparable to the merit rewards of story arcs?

[Schizophobia]

9 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

So I ask all fellow gamers of every walk, would it not be better to just give auto 50 to those who want it, if in return we could have AE once again give meaningful rewards comparable to the merit rewards of story arcs?

i think this would probably be wildly unpopular with a lot of people, but i do not know.

 

i have two questions though:

will this ultimately have a negative impact on the game overall?

won't people still farm ae for the other rewards, especially if they're increased? maybe you meant something else, not sure.

 

thanks 🙂

[ShardWarrior]

On 9/26/2019 at 6:11 PM, The_Cheeseman said:

I am not a fan of loot boxes, as I feel it encourages unhealthy consumer behavior by intentionally exploiting operant conditioning to coerce people into spending more money than they should. It's a great way to make money, but I feel like using flaws in human psychology to wring cash out of people is unethical.

Just about every single product on the market is trying to coerce people into spending money they don't need to.  You can apply this to cell phones, social media apps, cracker jacks, Kinder eggs, trading cards, blind box toys and collectibles... the list goes on.  It also proceeds from the very false assumption everyone opening a box is doing so solely for a top-tier item.  Over in STO, opening a box is the way to get Lobi crystals (which every box drops) to spend in the Lobi store for various things.  You also get other items of value you can use for crafting and such or sell on the exchange.

 

[roleki]

18 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Ok I could write a thesis worthy of a doctorate trying to cover all the talking points in this thread. But I shall do me very best to focus on the bullet points.

 

The number one issue imo with AE farming is that it became a reason to significantly reduce AE rewards. The main reason, the main vocal part of the community wanted AE came from the RPG community of Virtue. A fair few of the devs actually spent a good bit of their personal game time on that server as was well known to the community. This is one reason why we among the many MMO have so many emotes, so much flavor that really is just fat needing to be cut in the eyes of the meta gamers.

 

This was the first real rift imo in the coh community because up till then RPGers on virtue had no real issue playing with the non RPers on the server. When I think back it was after this division that many RPers myself included tended to be less tolerant of non RPers, This is when I really started to see the more hard line use of OOC(( )) and many refusing to talk OOC at all basically forcing non RPers to either go lite RP or go to another server.

 

It was a line in the sand made against those who because of a lack of self control and a need for personal gratification basically broke a toy made first and foremost for the RPers. No other MM ever came anywhere close to what we got with AE. Any of us with a minimal amount of experience can make content to expand our game world. In fact the makers themselves cryptic failed to do half as well in the next generation with their foundry on NWN and STO.

 

The worst part is the PL meta gamers dont even need custom AE farms to PL in a timely manner. I mean sure a day or two isnt an hour or two, but you could do a sewer team or two, then go knock out posi 1-2, then go doa  few fast easy arcs like the hollows and faultline arcs for some massive easy merit rewards. then a peny yin, a citadel, a moonfire, your going to be at least into the 30s by then in a day or two of pretty mellow and varied play. By then you will know if the power sets/AT are rigth for you or you need to  shelve and reroll. And all them lovely merits can easily be liquidated into inf and mailed on to a future alt.

 

Now for the 30+ just go do a few MSR. They are practically dailys now and you will def fly to 50 doing them. and likely faster then any AE farm could.  Honestly if stopping PLers is a goal HC team cares about a bigger fix would be putting the level lock back on the RWZ. Not something I am suggesting nor endorsing fyi.

 

Honestly I think at this point the only real way to give AE back to content creators and be able to roll back the many nerfs to AE rewards would be the introduction of instant lvl 50 at the P2W. Understand I doubt Id ever use this feature myself, I doubt many RPers or content players would, but if that is what the PLer meta game crowd want I am done trying to put them on the other side.

 

So I ask all fellow gamers of every walk, would it not be better to just give auto 50 to those who want it, if in return we could have AE once again give meaningful rewards comparable to the merit rewards of story arcs?

Wait wait wait.  Wait.  So your beef with farming is that it forced a tweak to AE rewards?  So you are saying, you want Merit Rewards - which are still available in mass quantities all over the game -  but would rather they come from AE than from content?  

 

Who has the impulse issues, again?

 

[swordchucks]

The fundamental problem with AE farming, in its current state, is that it is the most rewarding activity you can engage in by a large margin.  The inf and xp gains from AE farming are at least double what you can get in any other content.  Other content is getting nerfed because it's too profitable (see MSRs at the 10:1 exchange rate and Hami-zergs) when its profit is still less than what you can get in AE.  This is further compounded by the fact that AE farming is generally a solo activity (and even with door-sitters, it's still mostly solo) in an MMORPG.

 

In brief, you have a solo activity in a multiplayer game which rewards at least double what any group content rewards.  This is fundamentally broken.  Soloing should be a viable path, but it should not be clearly superior to group content.

[Schizophobia]

8 minutes ago, swordchucks said:

Other content is getting nerfed because it's too profitable (see MSRs at the 10:1 exchange rate and Hami-zergs) when its profit is still less than what you can get in AE.

oooo, daaammn. i'd forgotten about those nerfs, that's a really good point. that's a really good observation. wish i was that smert.

 

still a little leary about nerfing ae because i hate to try to put a cat back in the bag. but i think reversing or at least revisiting those nerfs would be a really good idea.

 

jesus, i wish i was smarter. hot damn.

[jubakumbi]

So, are we just going to nerf/ban everything in the game, one by one, as those things become the 'most profitable', until there is no game?

 

This community cracks me up.

 

If you don't like a part of the game, don't play it.

 

This whole thing IMO is still based around some Protetstant Work Ethic idea that nothing has 'value' without 'work'.

Too funny.

[Lines]

1 minute ago, jubakumbi said:

So, are we just going to nerf/ban everything in the game, one by one, as those things become the 'most profitable', until there is no game?

 

This community cracks me up.

 

If you don't like a part of the game, don't play it.

 

This whole thing IMO is still based around some Protetstant Work Ethic idea that nothing has 'value' without 'work'.

Too funny.

If you don’t like the community, don’t be a part of it.

[jubakumbi]

4 minutes ago, Lines said:

If you don’t like the community, don’t be a part of it.

OOOOhhhh buuurrrnnn!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

Thanks, I'll do what I like. 😉

 

[ShardWarrior]

5 minutes ago, Lines said:

If you don’t like the community, don’t be a part of it.

To be fair, that applies to you as well, just as it applies to everyone else.  There is nothing wrong with opposing points of view. 

[Lines]

5 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

To be fair, that applies to you as well, just as it applies to everyone else.  There is nothing wrong with opposing points of view. 

Absolutely, but there is in assuming that everyone else in the community has that point of view, even though most seem moderate at worst on the subject, and then treating that point of view as laughable.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Lines

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, Lines said:

Absolutely, but there is in assuming that everyone else in the community has that point of view, even though most seem moderate at worst on the subject, and then treating that point of view as laughable.

Not everyone in the community visits or posts to the forums though. 

[jubakumbi]

1 hour ago, Lines said:

Absolutely, but there is in assuming that everyone else in the community has that point of view, even though most seem moderate at worst on the subject, and then treating that point of view as laughable.

My wife has a saying.

"If you don't want me to laugh at youre beliefs, don't have such funny ones."

I find humor in watching gamers tear down the minutae of games because of thier seeminingly uncrontrolable urge to remake every single game they play.

 

This community also has a moral high-horse group determined to make everyone play the 'way the developers intnded' that villifies absolutely anything not within that moral framework ... I choose to clap back at these effort to take away something many people enjoy, simply because a few gamers think something is 'wrong' and are looking to fix a problem that does not exist outside of thier own minds.

I really like laughing over that one.

[Lines]

2 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

This community also has a moral high-horse group determined to make everyone play the 'way the developers intnded' that villifies absolutely anything not within that moral framework ... I choose to clap back at these effort to take away something many people enjoy, simply because a few gamers think something is 'wrong' and are looking to fix a problem that does not exist outside of thier own minds.

I really like laughing over that one.

But this thread has never been about this and not many people support getting rid of or nerfing AE. Even the OP didn’t suggest it. The other similar thread currently on page 1 of general did, but is still clearly a minority opinion. I think it’s a long way off representing the community, who by and large either use AE or are ambivalent.

 

These conversations prompt good discussion about how people play the game and the challenge and reward of older/non-AE content. I like talking about that; it’s interesting to me.