DELETE Hasten, SLIGHTLY ALTER all enemies, SLIGHTY ALTER all player powers

[Rathulfr]

13 minutes ago, Moka said:

I'm pretty sick of the mentality of "X thing is good so we should nerf it/remove it" that people have in this game.

This is a misrepresentation of the OP, and does not apply to @Steampunkette in general.

[biostem]

Just now, ShardWarrior said:

Vengeance

 

Which requires 3 powers from leadership and can only be used if an ally is defeated.  Nice try though.

[ShardWarrior]

5 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Everyone can take it, and more importantly, everyone does take it.

I know a whole slew of people who never take it.  So not everyone does take it. 

[Moka]

1 minute ago, Steampunkette said:

Just leave, ShardWarrior, if you're not going to actually contribute to the conversation.

Just because you don't like someone's opinion doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to post.

 

1 minute ago, Rathulfr said:

This is a misrepresentation of the OP, and does not apply to @Steampunkette in general.

The thread is literally called "Delete Hasten".

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Moka

[ShardWarrior]

Just now, biostem said:

Which requires 3 powers from leadership and can only be used if an ally is defeated.  Nice try though.

Still an enormous benefit in having it.

 

But hey, go ahead and nerf hasten.  I think I took it on one character and even that one doesn't really need it.  When people leave in droves - just as they did with ED - you can still be happy you got your nerf.

[Replacement]

Just now, ShardWarrior said:

I know a whole slew of people who never take it.  So not everyone does take it. 

Your whole slew is apparently only 10% of the population.  But fine, that's not "everyone."

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Moka said:

And I still take it on pretty much all my characters. Boxing/Kick are just wasted power slots for Tough/Weave. While it may not be beneficial to something like an invulnerability tanker, hasten isn't that beneficial to something like a willpower character.

Did I miss where a willpower character doesn't have attacks that can benefit from more recharge?

[Replacement]

2 minutes ago, Moka said:

Just because you don't like someone's opinion doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to post. 

...what if it's shitposting?

[Rathulfr]

14 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Some really great points have been raised in the last half page. I still feel like it being that OVERWHELMINGLY POPULAR is a problem. It shows that all the other options are vastly inferior by comparison, mostly because it is a globally-affecting power which no other powerset can provide.

 

And -creating- globally affecting powers in multiple power pools isn't an option, either, since it would exacerbate the issue, not fix it in any meaningful way.

 

So how about this as a different form of compromise:

 

25% Global Recharge for everyone. 25% Global Recharge from Hasten. Hasten's cooldown is reduced from 450 seconds down to 200 seconds, making it easily "Permable" with 2-slotted IOs. Allow it to stack with itself. With heavy set-slotting you could "Double Stack" Hasten permanently, resulting in a net 5% increase over current Permahasten.

 

However with the 25% baseline recharge rate increase, perhaps Hasten won't be quite so attractive.

 

Given the reactions we've already seen, this will be misinterpreted as "nerf Hasten from 70% to 25%".  Apparently, math is hard.

 

[ShardWarrior]

7 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Just leave, ShardWarrior, if you're not going to actually contribute to the conversation.

LMAO!  "Only post if you agree with me".  Love it!  And people say what a "friendly community" this is...

 

Saying I don't agree with the idea and would rather not see Hasten get deleted or nerfed IS contributing, sorry.

Edited September 25, 2019 by ShardWarrior

[DSorrow]

2 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

a mild to moderate nerf to some extreme outlier builds.

Disclaimer: I realize my builds are definitely on the extreme outlier end of the scale and I agree that Hasten is too good.

 

However, nerfing Hasten would change how every single one of my builds play and that's not something I can agree with. If it was just one character and a minor change at that, then I wouldn't really oppose the idea. Looking at the individual characters, many of them rely on perma Hasten to be able to use an attack chain or have another ability perma:

 

• Fire/Time: perma Chrono Shift and by extension, perma Farsight. Pretty obvious impacts to my attack chain and survivability.
• Ill/Cold: perma PA, Heat Loss and Benumb.
• TW/Elec: perma Energize, my attack chain.
• Rad/SD: perma double stacked AD, significant against some enemy types but other than that this character would suffer the least by far.
• Therm/Sonic: perma Heat Exhaustion, Melt Armor and PPP pet.
• WS: perma Eclipse
• Ice/Fire Blaster: my attack chain

 

My reasoning is 100% selfish, but having to re-do all of my builds and even then potentially losing performance is getting too close to ED for me.

 

That said, though, I don't really have any solid answers as to what can or should be done to Hasten. So far the most reasonable suggestion I've seen is putting +20% Rech to Swift and taking Hasten down to +50% so it isn't quite as good as it is now, but it would probably still be comparatively much better than most other pool powers. Inherent but otherwise like it's now? Maybe.

 

EDIT: Appears I missed at least a page's worth of new posts while typing this one.

Quote

 

25% Global Recharge for everyone. 25% Global Recharge from Hasten. Hasten's cooldown is reduced from 450 seconds down to 200 seconds, making it easily "Permable" with 2-slotted IOs. Allow it to stack with itself. With heavy set-slotting you could "Double Stack" Hasten permanently, resulting in a net 5% increase over current Permahasten.

 

However with the 25% baseline recharge rate increase, perhaps Hasten won't be quite so attractive.

 

This seems reasonable, too.

Edited September 25, 2019 by DSorrow

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, Moka said:

Just because you don't like someone's opinion doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to post.

You are absolutely correct, but generally speaking, it's more beneficial to compare like-to-like.

[ShardWarrior]

1 minute ago, Replacement said:

...what if it's shitposting?

You mean kind of like what you just posted? 😉

[Rathulfr]

11 minutes ago, SlimPickens said:

what a terrible idea.

Why is that?

[Moka]

Just now, biostem said:

Did I miss where a willpower character doesn't have attacks that can benefit from more recharge?

Yeah it's in the same category as the tough/weave thing, I mentioned. Apparently some brutes and tankers can't benefit from it. I'm just wondering where the line is here. What constitutes as "necessary' in CoH. Soon enough we're going to remove sprint. 

[Rathulfr]

11 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

This would have probably been a reasonable balance suggestion 20 issues ago.

 

At this point, my reaction was, "Really? Why?"

 

There is no reason for this nerf, Everyone has access to hasten.  Even Kheldians.  

 

 

 

 

There is no nerf here: the OP was suggesting a that we replace the Hasten power pick with a global recharge instead, thus eliminating the need for it in the first place.

 

[Rathulfr]

26 minutes ago, William Valence said:

Hasten may be a Min/Max tax, but I don't think that's inherently a bad thing.

 

I do think it would be a bad thing to give inherent quickness to everyone with no power or opportunity cost. It would probably be best to just leave it as it is.

 

Why would it be a bad thing?

 

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Moka said:

Yeah it's in the same category as the tough/weave thing, I mentioned. Apparently some brutes and tankers can't benefit from it. I'm just wondering where the line is here. What constitutes as "necessary' in CoH. Soon enough we're going to remove sprint. 

The argument isn't about "necessary" - it's about how 1 power provides such a tremendous benefit that it pushes characters who take it far ahead of others who do not.

[MunkiLord]

Any change to Hasten that results in any lesser performance for any of my characters I am wholly against. Why would I ever go for something that would have a negative impact on every character I have? If the net result is less than 70% global recharge at all times, it's a hard pass. I like my characters as they are, and I don't see the benefit to less recharge.

[Cobalt Azurean]

[Replacement]

1 minute ago, MunkiLord said:

Any change to Hasten that results in any lesser performance for any of my characters I am wholly against. Why would I ever go for something that would have a negative impact on every character I have? If the net result is less than 70% global recharge at all times, it's a hard pass. I like my characters as they are, and I don't see the benefit to less recharge.

Well...

Have you ever complained about this game becoming too easy?

 

Edit - I guess I'll wait a week or two before posting my "swap Hasten and Burnout" thread...

Edited September 25, 2019 by Replacement

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, Replacement said:

Well...

Have you ever complained about this game becoming too easy?

No I haven't. When I want a challenge I do things like try and solo a Master ITF with a Blaster. I'm 1 for 4.

[Haijinx]

2 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

 

There is no nerf here: the OP was suggesting a that we replace the Hasten power pick with a global recharge instead, thus eliminating the need for it in the first place.

 

The OP suggested a perma lesser amount of +rch 

 

Hence nerf.  

 

The closer to perma hasten you were the more nerfy. 

 

 

[AerialAssault]

3 minutes ago, biostem said:

The argument isn't about "necessary" - it's about how 1 power provides such a tremendous benefit that it pushes characters who take it far ahead of others who do not.

In a largely PvE game, is that even a problem?

 

Because it doesn't sound like a problem to me.

 

Someone else attacks faster, call the police because my feelings got hurt.

[Rathulfr]

10 minutes ago, Moka said:

The thread is literally called "Delete Hasten".

Did you actually read the OP, or just jump to conclusions based on the click-bait title?