biostem Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, AerialAssault said: In a largely PvE game, is that even a problem? Because it doesn't sound like a problem to me. Someone else attacks faster, call the police because my feelings got hurt. Believe it or not, even in a PvE game, balance is important. 1 power pick should not imbalance characters to the extent that hasten does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunkiLord Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Rathulfr said: Did you actually read the OP, or just jump to conclusions based on the click-bait title? Many people did. It's less recharge and that makes it a nerf. 2 The Trevor Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moka Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Rathulfr said: Did you actually read the OP, or just jump to conclusions based on the click-bait title? I did. And it's still an overall nerf. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSorrow Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Replacement said: Well... Have you ever complained about this game becoming too easy? I think that's a bit of a tangent. I'd like more difficult content for sure, but I don't want content being made "difficult" by reducing the efficiency of my characters via breaking all of their builds. Torchbearer: Sunsinger - Fire/Time Corruptor Cursebreaker - TW/Elec Brute Coldheart - Ill/Cold Controller Mythoclast - Rad/SD Scrapper Give a man a build export and you feed him for a day, teach him to build and he's fed for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pesterchum Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Rathulfr said: Did you actually read the OP, or just jump to conclusions based on the click-bait title? Are you just being cocky because you know you'll never be popular enough to be nerfed from the game 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starforge Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 If everything in a game is perfectly balanced, then what's the point in even having choices? How about looking at buffing under-performing sets first before suggesting nerfs for things that are popular? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathulfr Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Haijinx said: The OP suggested a perma lesser amount of +rch Hence nerf. The closer to perma hasten you were the more nerfy. Ok, then point out the discrepancies and suggest alternatives that address those. Give the OP the benefit of the doubt that they weren't being completely malicious. @Rathstar Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAdjustor Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 20 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said: The graphs showed Fire/Spines brutes being overwhelmingly popular too. Same with Empathy Defenders. Should those get nerfed next? It's a never ending cycle. Tough and Weave next anyone ? They both have the same levels of popularity compared to the rest of the pool powers that hasten has relative to them. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerialAssault Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, biostem said: Believe it or not, even in a PvE game, balance is important. 1 power pick should not imbalance characters to the extent that hasten does. Someone attacks faster than me. God this game is broken, who ever thought hasten was a good idea. You talk about Hasten as if it was literally game-breaking. It's not. You just attack faster. w o w. 2 Oh? You like City of Heroes? Name every player character. I'll be waiting in my PMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biostem Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, AerialAssault said: Someone attacks faster than me. God this game is broken, who ever thought hasten was a good idea. You talk about Hasten as if it was literally game-breaking. It's not. You just attack faster. w o w. If you are unable to comprehend why balancing powers and powersets/ATs is important, then I don't think you understand game design or the negative ramifications of such imbalances. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathulfr Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, MunkiLord said: Many people did. It's less recharge and that makes it a nerf. Okay, then how about we address the discrepancies instead of crying "nerf"? @Rathstar Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moka Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 My only alternative would be to make hasten inherent rather than remove it at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathulfr Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, Moka said: I did. And it's still an overall nerf. Did you offer anything constructive besides crying "nerf"? @Rathstar Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pesterchum Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Last I checked the answer to 'everyone is taking health/stamina' on live wasn't 'let's give them a way worse version of health/stamina.' Maybe you should start from there, workshop it a bit and maybe you'll get a bit more traction. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moka Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, Rathulfr said: Did you offer anything constructive besides crying "nerf"? Read above you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathulfr Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, pesterchum said: Are you just being cocky because you know you'll never be popular enough to be nerfed from the game A man can dream. @Rathstar Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 32 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said: The graphs showed Fire/Spines brutes being overwhelmingly popular too. Same with Empathy Defenders. Should those get nerfed next? Seriously its turning into a virtual witch hunt when something is enjoyed too much on here to nerf it. That's what will ruin the game - positions like that. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Valence Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Rathulfr said: Why would it be a bad thing? You're giving people three instances of power increase for free. They now have an extra power pick They now likely have an extra pool selection (if it was one of the common dip for hasten situations) They now have 20% faster recharge for free just for existing For as ubiquitously strong as Hasten is, it does come at a cost. Whereas this will, admittedly, make people have to change up their builds a bit to accomplish the same things, 90%+ of things that people can do now, will be able to be done, and will gain more power picks. Yes hasten is strong, not saying it isn't, but so much of it's strength comes from the fact that powers that grant recharge are fairly rare. It seems like people are overestimating the hurt that would come from this, and underestimating the strengths that would come from this. I feel this is a bit shortsighted and would make characters much stronger in the long run for no reason other than not wanting to have to spend a power pick and a pool to get hasten's effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 32 minutes ago, biostem said: Strawman; Not every AT can take fire or spines powers, and other sets perform as good or better. Tell me what other power pool pick provides the same kind of global/overarching benefit to a character as hasten? Maneuvers especially stacked on a team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haijinx Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Rathulfr said: Ok, then point out the discrepancies and suggest alternatives that address those. Give the OP the benefit of the doubt that they weren't being completely malicious. I did give the benefit, I suggested that 20 issues ago it would have been a good idea. I have builds where id much prefer to have two auto rech powers instead of hasten also. So it might benefit me. However its going to affect nearly everyone's builds, everyone has been using it the way it is now for years, and it would be highly disruptive. When considering changes, how it affects the way the game has matured is an important consideration. Thats why all the additional brainstorming posts on a new hasten are also a bit annoying. Its not like we are crowdsourcing brain storm ideas for city of heroes 2 here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biostem Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, pesterchum said: Last I checked the answer to 'everyone is taking health/stamina' on live wasn't 'let's give them a way worse version of health/stamina.' Maybe you should start from there, workshop it a bit and maybe you'll get a bit more traction. The question becomes whether things like perma-dom/perma-lightform/etc should, from a gameplay perspective, even be a thing. Frankly, does anybody really care about swift, hurdle, health being made inherent? It's really just stamina that everyone wanted. I'd have preferred removing the power and just adjusting the global end recovery rate. Similarly, maybe overall recharge times on powers should be examined/adjusted and hasten should be removed. Edited September 25, 2019 by biostem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathulfr Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, Starforge said: If everything in a game is perfectly balanced, then what's the point in even having choices? How about looking at buffing under-performing sets first before suggesting nerfs for things that are popular? The OP did not intend to nerf something popular. The OP was pointing out that because something was extremely popular, perhaps there's an issue that needs to be addressed. The OP then suggest an alternative to replace Hasten with a global recharge buff for everyone. The OP's suggestion might result in a minor net nerf (without additional refinement), but the underlying point still stands and is valid. @Rathstar Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathulfr Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Moka said: My only alternative would be to make hasten inherent rather than remove it at all. Thank you for constructive feedback. @Rathstar Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biostem Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Infinitum said: Maneuvers especially stacked on a team. Which has a constant end cost and provides a much smaller bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathulfr Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Moka said: Read above you. Missed it, thanks for letting me know. @Rathstar Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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