TheAdjustor Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, biostem said: So let's say you have ~ 3 recharge reduction SOs/generic IOs in a power. Hasten grants roughly 2 SOs of further recharge reduction. This total bonus is not impacted like as if you tried slotting 5 recharge redux in that power - that's what I meant. As for Incarnate abilities - that's a whole 'nother can of worms... So what you are saying is we should also nerf all set IO bonuses. Seeing as anyone can build for 110%+ recharge with very little compromise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haijinx Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, biostem said: It may not benefit *you* at all, but IMHO, it would benefit the game as a whole. Certainly it would be a blow to those top-end players that maximize as many aspects of their character as possible - I'd never deny that. By extention, there will be others who feel the same. Many if this thread is any indication. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Haijinx said: An additional downside is that it feels like change for change's sake. Busybody work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShardWarrior Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, biostem said: So let's say you have ~ 3 recharge reduction SOs/generic IOs in a power. Hasten grants roughly 2 SOs of further recharge reduction. This total bonus is not impacted like as if you tried slotting 5 recharge redux in that power - that's what I meant. As for Incarnate abilities - that's a whole 'nother can of worms... Certain IOs and sets offer recharge reduction bonuses too, so I don't see the problem here. Unless those should all get nerfed too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunkiLord Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, biostem said: It may not benefit *you* at all, but IMHO, it would benefit the game as a whole. Certainly it would be a blow to those top-end players that maximize as many aspects of their character as possible - I'd never deny that. And I would be one of those. If there is a change that will impact literally every character of mine, how it benefits me will be my priority. On the other hand I'll have a TW Scrapper at 50 today or tomorrow. If that were nerfed I wouldn't be a fan, but it wouldn't be a big deal to me as it only impacts one of my characters. Plus such a massive change would have a negative impact that I believe people would quit over it. I wouldn't, but many would. And the HC server could also get a bad reputation from what many would perceive as a massive nerf. And that could very well offset any overall game balance positive from such a change. Perception matters, and this is a change that would not go over well The Trevor Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaxArcana Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 48 minutes ago, Infinitum said: It kinda is because it can make a team nearly invulnerable with one power choice. No, with EIGHT power choices - once per member of that team. Eight times almost ANYthing shareable team-wide, that doesn't run into soft or hard caps, is going to be damned good. DUH. The problem IMO, is that Hasten is incredibly potent for one character, solo, without anyone else helping. Global Handle: @PaxArcana ... Home servers on Live: Freedom & Virtue ... Home Server on HC: Torchbearer Archetype: Casual Gamer ... Powersets: Forum Melee / Neckbeard ... Kryptonite: Altoholism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haijinx Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, TheAdjustor said: So what you are saying is we should also nerf all set IO bonuses. Seeing as anyone can build for 110%+ recharge with very little compromise. I get the impression that some want to basically redesign the game. Which in itself is a worthwhile idea, if it wasn't for the niggling fact that 1000s of people play this one. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR_Mechano Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) Its change for changes sake. As mentioned if this is REALLY a bug bear for you...make it inherent...there...I'm not seeing the 'nerf hasten' side talking about this in the slightest. Now everyone has it you can do whatever the hell you like with it, you can ignore it, you can do everything we can do now or your character gets a 'must-have' power for free. Nothing for those of us that like hasten as it is now lose nothing everybody else gains something. So yeah...and the problem with this is nerf hasten side...like I'm not seeing a downside here...Hell I'm also seeing an upside in that if it is inherent it makes the notorious slow and sluggish early part of the game where you need attack powers and secondary powers more than recharge actually a touch more fun since you're not stuck staring at watching 3 powers recharge constantly. Also remember guys that if you do nerf hasten, it's not going to be popular...and it's not like Homecoming is the only server like it was back in the live days...people can and will bugger off to COXg or Rebirth. Edited September 25, 2019 by DR_Mechano 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biostem Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said: Certain IOs and sets offer recharge reduction bonuses too, so I don't see the problem here. Unless those should all get nerfed too. Possibly - Maybe they should be looked into, but that's not what we're talking about right now. For the record, I *do* feel that all the set bonuses from inventions are too OP, due to how they can be stacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR_Mechano Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) Yeah it does sound like Biostem wants to basically redesign the whole game, a game that I did not sign up to play here on HC...well...yeah...how about you create your OWN private server (the tools are there) and make all the changes you want to do. Edited September 25, 2019 by DR_Mechano 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, PaxArcana said: No, with EIGHT power choices - once per member of that team. Eight times almost ANYthing shareable team-wide, that doesn't run into soft or hard caps, is going to be damned good. DUH. The problem IMO, is that Hasten is incredibly potent for one character, solo, without anyone else helping. Its the same scenario if you design it that way around maneuvers. You design thing around hasten too, because hasten without global recharge to make it Perma isnt anything spectacular. Either way you have to build for it whether solo or on team, an all SG team designed around maneuvers is the same thing. Not to mention defense soft caps scale the closer you get to 45% so maneuvers is a bit more than meets the eye if you are at say 39% already. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAdjustor Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, Haijinx said: I get the impression that some want to basically redesign the game. Which in itself is a worthwhile idea, if it wasn't for the niggling fact that 1000s of people play this one. I wouldn't even be against redesigning the game. It actually could be a lot of fun to play, I just don't see the people who are out to pound down nails that stand up as the people to do it. I have said this repeatedly, it's one thing to make changes with the idea of moving the game forward to a consistent vision. It's another thing entirely to go around hitting things because someone raises a forum mob. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShardWarrior Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, biostem said: Possibly - Maybe they should be looked into, but that's not what we're talking about right now. For the record, I *do* feel that all the set bonuses from inventions are too OP, due to how they can be stacked. Personally, I think that's exactly what they were supposed to do - bypass ED. ED was not a popular change and drove away a lot of players. A LOT. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said: Yeah it does sound like Biostem wants to basically redesign the whole game, a game that I did not sign up to play here on HC...well...yeah...how about you create your OWN private server (the tools are there) and make all the changes you want to do. Thank goodness homecoming doesnt have to listen to them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biostem Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said: Yeah it does sound like Biostem wants to basically redesign the whole game, a game that I did not sign up to play here on HC...well...yeah...how about you create your OWN private server (the tools are there) and make all the changes you want to do. The entire game? No. I wouldn't even say certain aspects of the game. Contrary to popular belief, "balancing" != "redesigning". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biostem Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, Infinitum said: Thank goodness homecoming doesnt have to listen to them. Right back at ya, buddy! This is a DISCUSSION about what can/should/ought/or not, be done, with said game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biostem Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said: Personally, I think that's exactly what they were supposed to do - bypass ED. ED was not a popular change and drove away a lot of players. A LOT. Sometimes the medicine is bitter, but helps in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShardWarrior Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, biostem said: Contrary to popular belief, "balancing" != "redesigning". You're kind of assuming that balance was never taken into account when IOs and Incarnates were added originally though. Going to go out on a limb and say the old Devs had access to the same data and saw the same thing - a lot of people take hasten. But they added all the +recharge bonuses in IOs and incarnates anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShardWarrior Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, biostem said: Sometimes the medicine is bitter, but helps in the long run. I'm sure that someone tried this same excuse in board meetings when they were asked why subscription revenue just took a nosedive because of ED. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR_Mechano Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said: You're kind of assuming that balance was never taken into account when IOs and Incarnates were added originally though. Going to go out on a limb and say the old Devs had access to the same data and saw the same thing - a lot of people take hasten. But they added all the +recharge bonuses in IOs and incarnates anyway. This...if after all that time with inventions and incarnates and hasten being a thing...they didn't touch it I'm going out on a limb and assuming that the devs knew what they were doing. The ones who ran the initial code may have made it a spaghetti-fest when it came to things like AI but things like nerfing powers is well within the purview of Paragon Studios. Still I've not once seen anyone mention the 'just make it an inherent' suggestion but I'm guessing that would be 'bad for balancing' apparently. Edited September 25, 2019 by DR_Mechano 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Yep. Before ED, I was in a supergroup of over twenty people. After ED, I was one of three left. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, biostem said: Right back at ya, buddy! This is a DISCUSSION about what can/should/ought/or not, be done, with said game... Only im not making suggestions, im enjoying the game. You are providing solutions to a problem that you cant prove exists. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haijinx Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, biostem said: The entire game? No. I wouldn't even say certain aspects of the game. Contrary to popular belief, "balancing" != "redesigning". The line between the two is murky and filled with terrors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShardWarrior Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Infinitum said: You are providing solutions to a problem that you cant prove exists. This is what it sounds like to me - a solution looking for a problem. Seems like this thread is just "too many people take it, so it must be bad". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix' Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Deleting hasten is not an option. I'd rather see hasten in a different pool power set maybe with only buffs. One for rech, one for dmg, one for defence etc... I dont know but I think not many will be "forced" to pick ss to get hasten then. Just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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