DELETE Hasten, SLIGHTLY ALTER all enemies, SLIGHTY ALTER all player powers

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

You're kind of assuming that balance was never taken into account when IOs and Incarnates were added originally though.  Going to go out on a limb and say the old Devs had access to the same data and saw the same thing - a lot of people take hasten.  But they added all the +recharge bonuses in IOs and incarnates anyway. 

You're also assuming that they *didn't* just go with the notion that people like power creep, and so just rolled with it, either.  Since neither of us can demonstrate the devs' actual intent, perhaps it's irrelevant.  CoH:HC is no longer for-profit, so things that improve the overall health of the game should trump those that make a tiny fraction of the game's builds better.

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

The line between the two is murky and filled with terrors.  

 

I just find it hard to believe out of all that is broken about the game, we have someone hawking on hasten.

 

it seriously mind blowing to me that peoples brains have gone here.

[biostem]

5 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

I'm sure that someone tried this same excuse in board meetings when they were asked why subscription revenue just took a nosedive because of ED. 

Which is irrelevant because CoH:HC is no longer for-profit.

[biostem]

Just now, Infinitum said:

I just find it hard to believe out of all that is broken about the game, we have someone hawking on hasten.

 

it seriously mind blowing to me that peoples brains have gone here.

Wait?  Are the devs unable to address multiple aspects of the game?  Are they unable to do both?  Where's your brain gone?

[Lost Ninja]

28 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

So 3 pages ago, now, I posted an alternative suggestion. Everyone was too busy engaging in Ad Hominem, Strawmen, and other fallacies to notice it, though, so I'll repost it, here:

 

Reduce Hasten to a 25% recharge buff. Reduce the Cooldown to 200 seconds.

 

Add a Global 25% recharge buff to everyone.

 

With 2 recharge IOs Hasten becomes Perma at 25%, with the 25% constant, that's 50%. Like Practiced Brawler, it will be possible to double-stack Hasten, resulting in a net 5% gain at 75% total.

 

But the incentive to do so is lessened, aside from the minmaxers and recharge monkey powersets and archetypes.

I don't get the whole "Lets delete Hasten and replace it with Faster Hasten".

 

Why not just do 20% Inherent (not part of another ability just a flat unenhancable inherent. Keep a power called Hasten in Super Speed, functions as it does now but only gives 50%, same end cost, same recharge. Total benefit would be 70% +recharge. 

 

@biostemAs for the whole thing about perma Hasten allowing you to do things that you shouldn't be able to do, Hasten isn't the issue at all. Get rid of +recharge IOs and set bonuses, then that might be an argument.

[DR_Mechano]

3 minutes ago, biostem said:

You're also assuming that they *didn't* just go with the notion that people like power creep, and so just rolled with it, either.  Since neither of us can demonstrate the devs' actual intent, perhaps it's irrelevant.  CoH:HC is no longer for-profit, so things that improve the overall health of the game should trump those that make a tiny fraction of the game's builds better.

But DOES it improve the health of the game? You honestly can't prove that either.

 

Like I said while CoH:HC is no longer for profit it's also not the only horse in the race. judging from this thread Hasten is a hill people WILL die on and there are other servers out there like CoXg and Rebirth.

Edited September 25, 2019 by DR_Mechano

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, biostem said:

Wait?  Are the devs unable to address multiple aspects of the game?  Are they unable to do both?  Where's your brain gone?

No, the devs are amazing, so amazing im sure they have priorities in order, and i find it hard to believe hasten will be at the top of the list.

 

this is forum busybody work for problems you cant prove, its almost like you birdbox through the game for monsters that arent there.

[Haijinx]

Or you know we could just leave Hasten like it is.

[ShardWarrior]

11 minutes ago, biostem said:

You're also assuming that they *didn't* just go with the notion that people like power creep, and so just rolled with it, either.  Since neither of us can demonstrate the devs' actual intent, perhaps it's irrelevant.  CoH:HC is no longer for-profit, so things that improve the overall health of the game should trump those that make a tiny fraction of the game's builds better.

Profit has nothing to do with it.  You don't want to drive people away.  Assuming deleting Hasten is an "improvement" is a very, very, very big assumption.

[ShardWarrior]

13 minutes ago, biostem said:

Which is irrelevant because CoH:HC is no longer for-profit.

See above - profit or not, I believe the goal is to get more people to play the game, not less.

[biostem]

8 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

No, the devs are amazing, so amazing im sure they have priorities in order, and i find it hard to believe hasten will be at the top of the list.

Who asked for it to be "at the top of the list"?

 

9 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

this is forum busybody work for problems you cant prove, its almost like you birdbox through the game for monsters that arent there.

Or, you are so in love with hasten and being OP that you cannot look at things in a wide and objective sense.

[DR_Mechano]

1) If hasten WAS a problem (which it isn't) there are a laundry list of changes that need to be done before it.

The Tanker and Rage changes need to be dealt with and put onto live.

 

Mastermind Pet AI needs a look at.

 

The Sentinel, Homecoming signature AT needs buffs...currently its a lackluster and kind of boring pile...ok that part is my opinion but the devs have stated that the Sentinel needs a rework and a rebalance.

 

Energy melee is currenly WiP to be buffed.

 

Regen for Tanks, Scrappers and Brutes needs a rework and a buff.

 

And a whole host of other changes need to be looked at before hasten even remotely gets looked at.

 

Hasten would be so far down the list as to be irrelevant and, as I've said, such an unpopular change that HC may suddenly lose its current seat of power of being the number one Rogue Server to either CoXg or Rebirth and then all the talks with NCsoft suddenly go down the toilet. Do you REALLY want to risk that being the case just because you think Hasten is unbalanced?

[TheAdjustor]

1 minute ago, Haijinx said:

Or you know we could just leave Hasten like it is.

Well that has downsides. It doesn't upset people, it doesn't get you a spot at winning forums for a day, and you don't get to have the schadenfreude from upsetting people.

 

Me I'd like to see hasten left as is, and there be included a new power that would let you get somewhere between 20-35% recharge as a passive.  Doesn't change anyone's existing builds. Lets people that don't want to take hasten get a nice level of recharge in their powers, and lets people that want to go for a very high recharge build more leeway in how they go about it.

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

See above - profit or not, I believe the goal is to get more people to play the game, not less.

So we should give everything away for free, yes?  Instant level 50s and IOs, right?  Maybe we should just let players pick whatever powers they want totally freeform, irrespective of AT.  There are obviously some things you support in the name of balance, yet you have a blind spot with regard to hasten...

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, biostem said:

Who asked for it to be "at the top of the list"?

 

Or, you are so in love with hasten and being OP that you cannot look at things in a wide and objective sense.

if you go back and read i have said a good bit that i can live without hasten, and i dont even focus on recharge anymore as much as resilience.

 

But.. .every time i hit hasten the servers dont crash, people dont leave the team, and the game moves on without people having seizures because they see monsters where there are none.

[TheAdjustor]

3 minutes ago, biostem said:

Or, you are so in love with hasten and being OP that you cannot look at things in a wide and objective sense.

 

Seriously ? This is a superhero game. Maybe you want to make Peasants and Pesos as your game ?

[biostem]

Just now, TheAdjustor said:

Seriously ? This is a superhero game. Maybe you want to make Peasants and Pesos as your game ?

False dichotomy;  You can keep your flight, your punches & kicks, your laser beam eyes - just maybe you should have to actually slot for recharge, instead of relying on 1 power to do it for you.

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, biostem said:

So we should give everything away for free, yes?  Instant level 50s and IOs, right?  Maybe we should just let players pick whatever powers they want totally freeform, irrespective of AT.  There are obviously some things you support in the name of balance, yet you have a blind spot with regard to hasten...

Balance, reminds me of the wizard of oz, behind the curtain.

 

can you even show what balance is?

[Starforge]

Some characters do need to actually slot for recharge, regardless if they have Hasten or not. Not a good argument.

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

Balance, reminds me of the wizard of oz, behind the curtain.

 

can you even show what balance is?

Absolutely - taking 1 power should not so drastically increase the performance of a character when compared to one who doesn't/didn't.

Edited September 25, 2019 by biostem

[Steampunkette]

16 minutes ago, Lost Ninja said:

I don't get the whole "Lets delete Hasten and replace it with Faster Hasten".

 

Why not just do 20% Inherent (not part of another ability just a flat unenhancable inherent. Keep a power called Hasten in Super Speed, functions as it does now but only gives 50%, same end cost, same recharge. Total benefit would be 70% +recharge. 

 

@biostemAs for the whole thing about perma Hasten allowing you to do things that you shouldn't be able to do, Hasten isn't the issue at all. Get rid of +recharge IOs and set bonuses, then that might be an argument.

Because the intent is to make Hasten -look- less attractive.

 

To make it less required.

 

By putting it into the 25% increments it becomes a 'Nice Benefit' for some builds, but not -as- big of one, unless you're looking to push Recharge to the point of double stacking it. It creates a psychological separation. "If I've got 25% already, do I really -need- that other 25% when I could instead take X power from Y pool, instead?"

 

The people who desperately cling to the 70% Recharge bonus would retain their benefit without changing anything they're doing. For the extreme buildmonkeys it would even be a 5% haste buff (That largely means nothing thanks to diminishing returns)...

 

There's also the increased end cost if you do double stack it. It's not a big deal but it is marginally less attractive that way.

 

7 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

1) If hasten WAS a problem (which it isn't) there are a laundry list of changes that need to be done before it.

The Tanker and Rage changes need to be dealt with and put onto live.

 

Mastermind Pet AI needs a look at.

 

The Sentinel, Homecoming signature AT needs buffs...currently its a lackluster and kind of boring pile...ok that part is my opinion but the devs have stated that the Sentinel needs a rework and a rebalance.

 

Energy melee is currenly WiP to be buffed.

 

Regen for Tanks, Scrappers and Brutes needs a rework and a buff.

 

And a whole host of other changes need to be looked at before hasten even remotely gets looked at.

 

Hasten would be so far down the list as to be irrelevant and, as I've said, such an unpopular change that HC may suddenly lose its current seat of power of being the number one Rogue Server to either CoXg or Rebirth and then all the talks with NCsoft suddenly go down the toilet. Do you REALLY want to risk that being the case just because you think Hasten is unbalanced?

Ah, yes... The "We can't fix anything until we fix everything else" argument. The Paralysis of Lists. Good stuff.

[TheAdjustor]

Just now, biostem said:

False dichotomy;  You can keep your flight, your punches & kicks, your laser beam eyes - just maybe you should have to actually slot for recharge, instead of relying on 1 power to do it for you.

I recently had another thread where I pointed out that people using logical fallacies on the internet usually did so not to add to discussion but rather to shut it down. This is a good example of just that.

 

Having hasten doesn't mean you don't have to slot for recharge. Matter of fact given the recharge curve you need hasten for most sets just to get the overall recharge to where it's no longer beneficial to slot recharge.

[ShardWarrior]

5 minutes ago, biostem said:

So we should give everything away for free, yes?  Instant level 50s and IOs, right?  Maybe we should just let players pick whatever powers they want totally freeform, irrespective of AT.  There are obviously some things you support in the name of balance, yet you have a blind spot with regard to hasten...

Where did I say any of those things?  Now you're just trying to put words in my mouth in a tantrum.

[Steampunkette]

Just now, ShardWarrior said:

Where did I say any of those things?  Now you're just trying to put words in my mouth in a tantrum.

Turnabout is fair play.

 

But if people keep stuffing words into each others mouths it might become foreplay...

[TheAdjustor]

1 minute ago, Steampunkette said:

Turnabout is fair play.

 

But if people keep stuffing words into each others mouths it might become foreplay...

No that would be word play.