Give us 'grindy' stuff (like vanguard) and costume unlocks back

[Night]

Honestly if you want something grindy and to work towards, get into badgehunting. This isn't an ongoing MMO, you don't need to consider this a second job to get all the goodies. It's quite the opposite, to unlock everything to everyone and make them widely accessible, that's pretty much why the changes originally were made, for overall increased enjoyment and fun.

[Starforge]

If people want a grind so badly, solo level a Peacebringer only doing the Sunstorm arcs.

[CrudeVileTerror]

I brought it up before, but it doesn't seem to get discussed much, so I'll post it again:

 

How about meeting halfway?

Clickable Base Decouration Unlocks

 

They look exactly the same as existing Base Decourations, but they are unlocked along with Souvenirs and/or Badges.  When any player clicks of them, they get to read the Souvenirs with the name of the player-character who unlocked them.

 

Would this satiate the grindy crowd?

Would this be acceptable to the rest of us?

[Leogunner]

1 hour ago, AerialAssault said:

Costume unlocks create a system of "haves" & "have nots."

 

 

No no no.  A system of "dids" and "did nots".  The have/have not tends to revolve around aspects that one cannot obtain normally like generational wealth, talent or intelligence.  Having unlockables in a game is merely an RPG system no different than locking that tier 9 power at level 32 or 38.  

[Moka]

Gross.

[Alchemystic]

8 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

No no no.  A system of "dids" and "did nots".  The have/have not tends to revolve around aspects that one cannot obtain normally like generational wealth, talent or intelligence.  Having unlockables in a game is merely an RPG system no different than locking that tier 9 power at level 32 or 38.  

I'mma brag to my friends that I hit level 32

[Ruin Mage]

i'mma brag that i got the zookeeper badge in a single day

[Davy]

[Hero_of_Light]

2 hours ago, AerialAssault said:

Costume unlocks create a system of "haves" & "have nots." We saw this in live with Ascension & Celestial costumes, literal bling to show off how much time & money you invested into the game.

 

Perhaps it's just me, but I don't feel that adding that back in will improve the game health.

 

 

I'm not asking for money spent costumes or really hard to get costumes so your point isn't valid.

 

If someone is a 'have not' because they don't want to complete a particular mission or story arc, that's totally on them because it's not hard to do nor  does it cost money.

 

Plus adding things to work towards keeps people engaged, so that would actually help the health of the game.

 

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it shouldn't be there if a large amount of people would like it, which since you can see everyone here agreeing and asking for the same, you can't deny exists.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Hero_of_Light

[Alchemystic]

16 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it shouldn't be there if a large amount of people would like it, which since you can see everyone here agreeing and asking for the same, you can't deny exists.

 

what thread are you reading

[Hero_of_Light]

5 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

 

what thread are you reading

This one? About a third of the people that replied agreed or see how it worked be nice.

 

Not to mention everyone I've asked in game

[Starforge]

How many people would you say that is out of the entire HC playerbase?

[HelBlaiz]

23 hours ago, Leogunner said:

I'll just say a metaphorical gun to the head ain't dangerous.  Dopamine response aside, that's all there really is to playing games in general and considering all the costumes parts are already unlocked, the only option such a suggestion has to go is for new stuff that might be added.  Maybe I'm just too open minded but I would try a lot of different kind of ideas if a good enough implementation were set up for them.  Accessibility doesn't have to equal carte blanche, you just have to be open new ideas.

 

I feel that's an exaggerated excuse.  If you are so busy to unlock a specific costume part you want, how can you find the time to play at all?  How is a costume part any different from tier 4 incarnate powers?  Or merit points?  Or contact unlocks?  Or leveling at all?  Not only that but who even said you have to unlock everything?

 

[snipped]

Metaphorical guns may not be dangerous, but they still hold sway over our thoughts and actions. There are a lot of things in our lives that could be metaphorical guns. The crux of the argument comes down to 'if you want X then you MUST Y.' As the game is set up right now, if I want to use a costume piece, I MUST use settings that allow for that costume piece (certain belts can't be used with Jackets for example) and that is basically the limit of restrictions I have to worry about. If a new costume piece were added, without need for a badge hunt, then the same restrictions I'm accustomed to would apply.

 

The devs have been slowly cutting away costuming restrictions in the form of decoupling path auras from regular ones and the various asymmetrical options they've provided. If they were suddenly to put new costume pieces behind in game achievements, they would not only be going against the precedent set by themselves by auto unlocking everything and they're efforts to create more freedom in costume creation, they would also be enforcing an entirely new, entirely arbitrary restriction on the players' ability of self expression. If we want [glowy eye skull mask] then we MUST [complete some arbitrary task, probably with some thematic link to the Skulls].

 

They have the power and means to just LET us use the [glowy eye skull mask] from the start. Refusing to do so would be an unwelcome subversion of expectation.

 

As for how costume pieces are different from powers/merits/contacts/levels? Well one is a completely cosmetic form of self-expression with no connection to mechanical performance to the character wearing it, and the others are a direct progression of game play, use powers to defeat enemies to get xp/inf/merits to get stronger to defeat stronger enemies. That's the game play loop. That's character progression, that's literally why you run content, because the content is entertaining and lets you run more entertaining content. If that game play loop isn't satisfying, if the content isn't entertaining enough to run on its own merit, then locking costume pieces, things that have NOTHING to do with character progression or performance away behind the less than satisfyingly entertaining content isn't going to make the content worth running intrinsically, it'll just be a chore to do. A task to check off a list in order to access something that has nothing to do with the content in the first place outside of a shared theme, at best.

 

It also taints the costume piece with the 'haves and have nots' that currently don't exist in the costume creator. Everyone who advocates for unlockable costume pieces say they don't want them just to feel special, but you're not going to convince everyone of that even if it is 100% true. Because the truth of the matter is they DO make you feel special. They make you say 'I earned this' and it makes you proud to have it. It makes you want to show it off, to use it, and that is indistinguishable on the outside looking in from 'I have something you don't.' If the task to get it is super hard it carries the extra weight of 'get on my level' and if the task ISN'T super hard to get and just a matter of nose to grindstone, then what you're feeling isn't accomplishment. It's a sigh of relief that says 'glad THAT'S done' because you only did whatever it was because the costume piece was withheld from you in the first place. Or perhaps that's just me.

Again, badges are tailor made to not only give you goals to achieve, but a mark of honor that you did. It gives everything a costume piece would without the arbitrary limitation on character creation. If a piece that was locked behind content on live no longer has that 'special' feel because it's unlocked in the first place, it's probably because there was never anything special about it. It's just like a diamond, it looks shiny and seems worth the high market price, but the only reason it's not cheap is because the endless supply of them is artificially throttled to keep prices high.

The original restriction on Capes and Auras, I remember were ultimately a lore decision to explain why things that needed new technology to work right weren't available at the beginning. Capes were a planned feature that couldn't get done in time, so they created the lore of earning the right to wear a cape. Hero side it was a sign of respect and living up to heroic expectation while villain side it was a sign of power you had to rip off the neck of a hero to count. I'll admit that's a cool bit of lore and world building, but I still think the game is better off for not restricting anything at creation, even capes and auras.

[Hero_of_Light]

1 minute ago, Starforge said:

How many people would you say that is out of the entire HC playerbase?

About a third, with the second third not caring either way and the last third being against

[Starforge]

Just now, Hero_of_Light said:

About a third, with the second third not caring either way and the last third being against

I meant actual numbers of people, not fractions. I doubt you've had an entire third of the HC playerbase agree with you.

[Alchemystic]

1 minute ago, Hero_of_Light said:

This one? About a third of the people that replied agreed or see how it worked be nice.

 

Not to mention everyone I've asked in game

A third isn't everyone, it's not even a "large amount"

[Hero_of_Light]

6 minutes ago, HelBlaiz said:

Metaphorical guns may not be dangerous, but they still hold sway over our thoughts and actions. There are a lot of things in our lives that could be metaphorical guns. The crux of the argument comes down to 'if you want X then you MUST Y.' As the game is set up right now, if I want to use a costume piece, I MUST use settings that allow for that costume piece (certain belts can't be used with Jackets for example) and that is basically the limit of restrictions I have to worry about. If a new costume piece were added, without need for a badge hunt, then the same restrictions I'm accustomed to would apply.

 

The devs have been slowly cutting away costuming restrictions in the form of decoupling path auras from regular ones and the various asymmetrical options they've provided. If they were suddenly to put new costume pieces behind in game achievements, they would not only be going against the precedent set by themselves by auto unlocking everything and they're efforts to create more freedom in costume creation, they would also be enforcing an entirely new, entirely arbitrary restriction on the players' ability of self expression. If we want [glowy eye skull mask] then we MUST [complete some arbitrary task, probably with some thematic link to the Skulls].

 

They have the power and means to just LET us use the [glowy eye skull mask] from the start. Refusing to do so would be an unwelcome subversion of expectation.

 

As for how costume pieces are different from powers/merits/contacts/levels? Well one is a completely cosmetic form of self-expression with no connection to mechanical performance to the character wearing it, and the others are a direct progression of game play, use powers to defeat enemies to get xp/inf/merits to get stronger to defeat stronger enemies. That's the game play loop. That's character progression, that's literally why you run content, because the content is entertaining and lets you run more entertaining content. If that game play loop isn't satisfying, if the content isn't entertaining enough to run on its own merit, then locking costume pieces, things that have NOTHING to do with character progression or performance away behind the less than satisfyingly entertaining content isn't going to make the content worth running intrinsically, it'll just be a chore to do. A task to check off a list in order to access something that has nothing to do with the content in the first place outside of a shared theme, at best.

 

It also taints the costume piece with the 'haves and have nots' that currently don't exist in the costume creator. Everyone who advocates for unlockable costume pieces say they don't want them just to feel special, but you're not going to convince everyone of that even if it is 100% true. Because the truth of the matter is they DO make you feel special. They make you say 'I earned this' and it makes you proud to have it. It makes you want to show it off, to use it, and that is indistinguishable on the outside looking in from 'I have something you don't.' If the task to get it is super hard it carries the extra weight of 'get on my level' and if the task ISN'T super hard to get and just a matter of nose to grindstone, then what you're feeling isn't accomplishment. It's a sigh of relief that says 'glad THAT'S done' because you only did whatever it was because the costume piece was withheld from you in the first place. Or perhaps that's just me.

Again, badges are tailor made to not only give you goals to achieve, but a mark of honor that you did. It gives everything a costume piece would without the arbitrary limitation on character creation. If a piece that was locked behind content on live no longer has that 'special' feel because it's unlocked in the first place, it's probably because there was never anything special about it. It's just like a diamond, it looks shiny and seems worth the high market price, but the only reason it's not cheap is because the endless supply of them is artificially throttled to keep prices high.

The original restriction on Capes and Auras, I remember were ultimately a lore decision to explain why things that needed new technology to work right weren't available at the beginning. Capes were a planned feature that couldn't get done in time, so they created the lore of earning the right to wear a cape. Hero side it was a sign of respect and living up to heroic expectation while villain side it was a sign of power you had to rip off the neck of a hero to count. I'll admit that's a cool bit of lore and world building, but I still think the game is better off for not restricting anything at creation, even capes and auras

Yes, it would be more specials, and typically humans like feeling special especially if it's something they like.

 

It scares me to see people that view having unlockables costumes peices this way and use psychobabble to defend having every costume price, even future ones for free.

 

I bet you'd rather have no future costume pieces if some future ones were required unlockable huh?

[HelBlaiz]

One third of the forum population is an insignificant, tiny percentage of the whole Homecoming population. Everyone you talk to in game is also an unsatisfactory measure, unless you have well kept records of the for and against ratio you can share with the class, and even then. The devs themselves would probably have to run a poll and solicit opinions of everyone online throughout the week, if not month, to get a sample size diverse and large enough to be worth talking about.

[Hero_of_Light]

8 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

A third isn't everyone, it's not even a "large amount"

So then by that logic, the third that doesn't want it isn't large either.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Hero_of_Light

[AerialAssault]

I mean, the options to unlock most of the costumes through the f2p store was one of the most popular purchases for a reason

[Alchemystic]

4 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

So then by that logic, the third that doesn't want it isn't large either.

By what logic?

You literally made up these statistics yourself.

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by Tyrannical

[HelBlaiz]

Who view unlockable costume pieces in what way? Needlessly arbitrary? As a carrot to lead people through content they're otherwise not interested in? A byproduct of conspicuous consumption?

[Heraclea]

On 10/24/2019 at 6:41 PM, Summerspark said:

Please consider giving us some minute rewards to work towards. Hell, I'd even grind for silly badges. Make me do a million vanguard missions to get a badge, I'm ready and waiting.

Farmed much recently? 

[galaxgal]

Arguing majorities is pointless. Blind democracy is a hideously poor way to manage a game, and one forum thread isn't a meaningful sample to determine a plurality much less a majority.

 

I agree that existing content shouldn't be suddenly re-locked and re-walled behind their grinds.

It exists today and should continue to exist and doing a costume unlock chore on your 50th character isn't fun.

 

However, right now we have people sitting around at level 50, doped up on Incarnate powers, idling around going "what next?" until they eventually log off.

 

Incentives motivate play. How many people are doing teams for radios or even contact missions? Few, because AE farming gives better XP.

How many people are doing non-50 TF's? Few, unless it is the weekly, because there are better ways to get merits.

How many people are going to do the new story arcs more than two or three times? Not many, because it gives little reward.

 

Having long-term meaningful rewards (not badges, because many don't find them meaningful) is vital to the long-term health of the server.

[Hero_of_Light]

9 minutes ago, HelBlaiz said:

One third of the forum population is an insignificant, tiny percentage of the whole Homecoming population. Everyone you talk to in game is also an unsatisfactory measure, unless you have well kept records of the for and against ratio you can share with the class, and even then. The devs themselves would probably have to run a poll and solicit opinions of everyone online throughout the week, if not month, to get a sample size diverse and large enough to be worth talking about.

It's funny how un-inclusive towards those wanting a few of any new costume pieces to be unlockables some on the forum are.

 

I'm all for the Devs putting up a poll!

 

Although I don't think you'd like the numbers on how many players would like new unlockable costume peices.