Sorry not sorry

[ShardWarrior]

You're not the only one grabbing aggro on the league and you're assuming the actions of others in the league helping to obtain lost aggro.  Even if 1 person was running around like this, how much XP/Inf/VM the league missing out on here?  Less than a handful, at best?

[Solarverse]

24 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

KD/KB - You were running a PB, you rmain I think.

KB to KD, dude. Not sure just how much more clear I can be than that. Which makes me realize that you were not teaming with me that day. None of my characters has Knock Back, I cannot be anymore clearer than that.

Quote

As for the rest, call it hat you like, deride it however makes you feel better, my viewpoint remains...some people just like to be bossy and controlling.

I don't attempt to control anyone. Either we mesh well or we do not. I don't hold ill will toward anyone over it.

Quote

So what if I inject other ideas and thoughts? IMO, they are all inter-related and this is not some court of law or formal debate.

I am always open to hear new ideas. Players give me suggestions all the time, some that are pretty good ones and I change to accommodate. It all depends on the suggestion and how it affects the team.

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Your driving need to punish me for perceived slights is amusing as always, especially the 'bad' digs...isn't that from like Barrens Chat in WoW, the whole 'bads' thing?

If I politely ask that you do not knock back mobs away from the Tank, and instead use your Knock Back to knock Mobs toward the Tank, and you refuse to do so and continue to piss off the entire team because you like watching mobs explode and scatter all over the room, then yes...you are a bad. Anyone who plays against the grain of the team that they joined, a team that somebody else put together, and when asked nicely if you would stop...and you refuse, that indeed makes you a bad, and you will be viewed as a borderline troll.

Quote

 

The only attitude I ever display is simple.

"Let people play the game the way that brings them joy and leave them alone."

I have the same attitude. However, if they are on MY team, one that I created and took the time out to form, and their play style goes against the team's and makes life hard for players on my team, and you refuse to stop...you can play elsewhere. It's really that simple. Play the way you want to, and let my team play the way we want. If the way you want, interferes with the way we want, we have a problem...and one of us has to go. I sure as hell won't be kicking my whole team just to accommodate you.

Quote

IMO, the mature way to handle that is to simply drop teams and avoid, not kick and report and 'punish'.

YMMV.

I'm not dropping my own team, dude...

 

P.S. I never once reported somebody over it, you are confusing me for somebody else. I don't punish them either. Not once have I said that.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Solarverse

[jubakumbi]

Just now, Solarverse said:

If I politely ask that you do not knock back mobs away from the Tank, and instead use your Knock Back to knock Mobs toward the Tank, and you refuse to do so and continue to piss off the entire team because you like watching mobs explode and scatter all over the room, then yes...you are a bad. Anyone who plays against the grain of the team that they joined, a team that somebody else put together, and when asked nicely if you would stop...and you refuse, that indeed makes you a bad, and you will be viewed as a borderline troll.

...

I'm not dropping my own team, dude...

So, show me where I have advocated 'pissing off the entire team' - you like to call out strawmen, here is yours.

If there is a person on a team that does not like a power being used, then they can leave the team.

If I see I am on a team that plays in a way that is not fun for me, I leave.

Additionally, as I stated previously, the Startator does not 'own' the team, IMO, the entire idea comes from a controlling mindset IME.

 

You continue to make some wild assuption that just because I don't think people should be villified for using powers in the game, that I will run around and use those powers just to tick them off, because, IMO, I call those people dicktators and startators ... it's hilarious.

 

No one that plays this game has to dance to the tune of anyone else that plays the game, full stop.

 

Do the tools exist to allow these controling players to actually be Startators?

Yup.

Therefore, Startators are implicitly allowed in the game code, the tools are there, just as the powers in game that piss off the Startators exist.

 

Some people choose to implement arbitrary restictions in-game on teams and have kick lists, to insure maximum rewards per minute.

Some people choose to roll with what the teams brings and enjoy the ride, laughing and relaxing.

 

As the poster above mentions, the game is big enough for all.

 

That does not change the fact that I think the controlling players are silly and mean.

All that matters is how we treat each other...I choose to accept and adapt, not control and kick.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

8 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

KB to KD, dude. Not sure just how much more clear I can be than that. Which makes me realize that you were not teaming with me that day. None of my characters has Knock Back, I cannot be anymore clearer than that.

I don't attempt to control anyone. Either we mesh well or we do not. I don't hold ill will toward anyone over it.

I am always open to hear new ideas. Players give me suggestions all the time, some that are pretty good ones and I change to accommodate. It all depends on the suggestion and how it affects the team.

If I politely ask that you do not knock back mobs away from the Tank, and instead use your Knock Back to knock Mobs toward the Tank, and you refuse to do so and continue to piss off the entire team because you like watching mobs explode and scatter all over the room, then yes...you are a bad. Anyone who plays against the grain of the team that they joined, a team that somebody else put together, and when asked nicely if you would stop...and you refuse, that indeed makes you a bad, and you will be viewed as a borderline troll.

I have the same attitude. However, if they are on MY team, one that I created and took the time out to form, and their play style goes against the team's and makes life hard for players on my team, and you refuse to stop...you can play elsewhere. It's really that simple. Play the way you want to, and let my team play the way we want. If the way you want, interferes with the way we want, we have a problem...and one of us has to go. I sure as hell won't be kicking my whole team just to accommodate you.

I'm not dropping my own team, dude...

Ah I understand now, you wrongly see it as YOUR team. Just because someone including myself starts a team, if something about a team mate is bothering me, but theya re not actually doing something actually deserving of being booted like acting an anti social ass hat, or cyber pervert. For example their is one or more non RPers chatting it up ruining my RP immersion then I will indeed drop from the group I started.

 

You keep acting like starting a team is some great chore deserving of praise and respect. Its not. This game at its hardest isnt hard. the idea evena  terribad player with no talent can somehow ruin game play enough to make things hard on 7 others is silly. A good team just doesnt need to worry over anything because they are all good at what they do and each worth at least 3 common characters in SOs. And that is likely undervaluing what a avg IOd character can do. I mean my leveling stalkers can solo X5 mobs easily and rapidly as an example and at a speed evena  fully furied brute cant compete with. There is no real game scenerio where 1,2,3 or even 4 terribad players can have any meaningful impact on such a  characters clear speed and kill rate.

 

To suggest that even one player can ruin a groups fun is hyperbole at its plainest. All your espousing is intolerance and acting like being a control freak is some kind of good thing. A good leader doesnt need to use a stick, and he doesnt need to fret over a person doing their own thing in like 99% of the CoH content.

[quixoteprog]

1 minute ago, jubakumbi said:

Additionally, as I stated previously, the Startator does not 'own' the team, IMO, the entire idea comes from a controlling mindset IME.

 

I have no idea WTF a "Startator" is, but if it means the team leader, i.e. the person with the "star" then he kind of DOES own the team. The game gives him the power to remove people for any reason. He does not need a vote. He doesn't need any permission to kick any person. Let me be clear, I'm NOT arguing that it is RIGHT that he can do this. I am only pointing out how the game functions. It doesn't mean he gets to tell people how to play the game. It just means he can tell you how to play the game if you want to stay on the team he is in charge of.

 

Again, not saying that is how it SHOULD be, just that that is how it IS.

[Lines]

1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said:

You're not the only one grabbing aggro on the league and you're assuming the actions of others in the league helping to obtain lost aggro.  Even if 1 person was running around like this, how much XP/Inf/VM the league missing out on here?  Less than a handful, at best?

Players down in the bowl would be out of range to aggro anything up on the sides, and if they're close enough then the lip of the ramp means they're not in LoS either to get aggro. Nobody down in the bowl obtains aggro from the sides unless they go up and purposely pull them down - which is fine. I would love it if more players did that. I'm grabbing mine from up in the bomb areas. Add to that that once I'm down onto that slope, the herds often end up getting culled from visibility because there's a maximum number of entities being rendered (actually, if I can change this, please tell me how), so I don't even know what my herds are doing. I just have to trust that they're still chasing me down until they've crossed that shelf. If that shelf area around the bowl didn't exist and the bowl were large and flat, this wouldn't be an issue. The geometry is the challenge here.

 

If there's 20 minutes left after the bomb and Ukon phase, I can normally manage about 8-12 herds in a raid, with 17 mobs per herd. (That's if I go non-stop. If others are herding too, I'll fight a few between herds which will lower that number, so I can actually get some rewards.) So let's say about 150 mobs altogether and whatever rewards they give. If I find I'm yoyoing to try and aggro interrupted herds, I reckon that number drops down to 5-7. Trying to taunt mobs off a player takes longer than the whole herd all together, because of that dang slope into the bowl. In that one time I kept seeing the same player interrupt my herds, I barely managed to contribute anything. That's frustrating - I have one job in an MSR, for which I get rewarded less than those in the bowl, and I'd like to be able to get on with it.

 

If others have herding strategies that don't involve breaking LoS, I'd love to hear them.

[Solarverse]

2 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

So, show me where I have advocated 'pissing off the entire team' - you like to call out strawmen, here is yours.

Because a lot of times, my teams have my SG mates or Coalition mates on them, and we all have similar play styles. Before I invite other players to any of my teams, I always ask Coalition, SG and friends first. No strawman here. I'm not saying I have never strawmanned...it's easy to do, especially when I misunderstand somebody. However, if I had strawmanned and you called me out on it, I would admit it.

2 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

If there is a person on a team that does not like a power being used, then they can leave the team.

Wrong. If there is a person on the team that does not wish to play with the team instead of against it, it is them that is going to leave...not my other teammates. As my favorite character of all time once said, "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few...or the one."

2 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

If I see I am on a team that plays in a way that is not fun for me, I leave.

I commend you for this.

2 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Additionally, as I stated previously, the Startator does not 'own' the team, IMO, the entire idea comes from a controlling mindset IME.

The person who creates the team does indeed have the right to get rid of any player who is trolling the team. If you are being disruptive to the team in any way, and after asked nicely to refrain from being disruptive in any way, it is by my right to dismiss you from the team. It is your opinion vs mine...and since I am the one leading the team, my opinion on this subject overrules yours. All other opinions are considered.

2 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

 

You continue to make some wild assuption that just because I don't think people should be villified for using powers in the game, that I will run around and use those powers just to tick them off, because, IMO, I call those people dicktators and startators ... it's hilarious.

I do not vilify anyone for using any powers in game. That is your assumption. I vilify people who take the stance that their singular needs outweigh the needs of the seven other players on the team...and I do this rightly so.

2 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

 

As the poster above mentions, the game is big enough for all.

I agree.

2 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

 

That does not change the fact that I think the controlling players are silly and mean.

All that matters is how we treat each other...I choose to accept and adapt, not control and kick.

If you chose to accept and adapt, then you will have no issues adapting to the team, not expecting the team to adapt to you. If I join a team that seems fond of knocking everything back, that's when I ask the leader if I can switch to a Mastermind. Then I join in the knock back fun, since my Pets don't care if mobs are scattered. I adapt, I do not expect the whole team to stop knocking back just because of me, I adapt and I continue on. If I am not feeling the knock back style they are playing, I finish said mission, then excuse myself from the team without any complaints. I adapt just fine.

[ShardWarrior]

24 minutes ago, Lines said:

Players down in the bowl would be out of range to aggro anything up on the sides, and if they're close enough then the lip of the ramp means they're not in LoS either to get aggro. Nobody down in the bowl obtains aggro from the sides unless they go up and purposely pull them down - which is fine. I would love it if more players did that. I'm grabbing mine from up in the bomb areas. Add to that that once I'm down onto that slope, the herds often end up getting culled from visibility because there's a maximum number of entities being rendered (actually, if I can change this, please tell me how), so I don't even know what my herds are doing. I just have to trust that they're still chasing me down until they've crossed that shelf. If that shelf area around the bowl didn't exist and the bowl were large and flat, this wouldn't be an issue. The geometry is the challenge here.

 

If there's 20 minutes left after the bomb and Ukon phase, I can normally manage about 8-12 herds in a raid, with 17 mobs per herd. (That's if I go non-stop. If others are herding too, I'll fight a few between herds which will lower that number, so I can actually get some rewards.) So let's say about 150 mobs altogether and whatever rewards they give. If I find I'm yoyoing to try and aggro interrupted herds, I reckon that number drops down to 5-7. Trying to taunt mobs off a player takes longer than the whole herd all together, because of that dang slope into the bowl. In that one time I kept seeing the same player interrupt my herds, I barely managed to contribute anything. That's frustrating - I have one job in an MSR, for which I get rewarded less than those in the bowl, and I'd like to be able to get on with it.

 

If others have herding strategies that don't involve breaking LoS, I'd love to hear them.

I think it safe to say everyone here understands how aggro management works.  What you're failing to address here is that you're not the only one grabbing aggro.  Unless you're trying to say you were the only tank/brute in the entire raid?  What about other tankers/brutes on the raid who may have accidentally pulled aggro off of you?  Is that ok?  Whatever the case, others are pulling aggro to the bowl for your team/league mates to deal with.  You're still getting XP/Inf/Merits.  1 solitary person running around the bowl is not taking exorbitant amounts of rewards away from you.

 

There are two sides to every coin.  Both people here are playing the game in the way that best suits them and both are right in my opinion. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by ShardWarrior

[jubakumbi]

25 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

I do not vilify anyone for using any powers in game. That is your assumption. I vilify people who take the stance that their singular needs outweigh the needs of the seven other players on the team...and I do this rightly so.

So you don't, in fact, berate and kick people for GF or AoE KB?

Seems a lot like that has been your whole schtick.

Are you going to tell me with a straight face that if a majority of the group besides you do not bring up these things, and you are the leader, that you would not, in fact, kick them for not following your rules, when a clear majority of the team is not on your side?

Will you just kick them all?

I mean, if we are going to make up use cases, we need to explore them all, right?

Do you, in fact, take a vote, or do you just 'decide'?

 

I mean, if you are going to go Vulkan, go all the way...fully use Logic over Emotion...why not pour over the exact composition of each team for each encounter and make the most logically sounds choice of prescribing how each person uses each power, in the best order, to kill the enemy the right way, everytime?

Why pick and choose over when to tout Logic over Emotion?

Why not take a vote for every choice, if the needs of the many are more important, is it not the star holder repsosibility to do what the teams wants, not what the star holder desires?

Edited November 1, 2019 by jubakumbi
speeling

[Lines]

24 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

I think it safe to say everyone here understands how aggro management works.  What you're failing to address here is that you're not the only one grabbing aggro.  Unless you're trying to say you were the only tank/brute in the entire raid?  What about other tankers/brutes on the raid who may have accidentally pulled aggro off of you.  Is that ok?  Whatever the case, others are pulling aggro to the bowl for your team/league mates to deal with.  You're still getting XP/Inf/Merits.  1 solitary person running around the bowl is not taking exorbitant amounts of rewards away from you.

I keep the map up all the time in the bottom right of the screen. In an MSR I zoom it in so I can always see who and where where other herders are and I can go a different direction. I'm watching my map closely if I'm herding in an MSR. It's also obvious when all three bomb areas have all their mobs that nobody else has been herding.

 

I don't mind if other tanks or brutes decide not to herd, that's up to them. I do my best to stay out of the way of the others and if another picks up mine with a taunt as long as they're going down into the middle, I try and salvage my aggro cap by grabbing from the shelf or moving on quickly. If a scrapper or someone has decided to get into a fight near my herd and my herd turns to fight them, I end up in an aggro tug-of-war that, partly due to the render limit, can take a couple of minutes to even figure out if it's worth doing or moving on.

 

I'll also add, it is normally more than one person. There's always people up on the ledge. My statement was that one can be enough to slow me down.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Lines

[Erratic1]

6 hours ago, Mr Isotope said:

 

People are talking about being efficient, we are not at work guys/gals, its a game,  games are supposed to be fun and to be enjoyed.

 

I tend to enjoy the Kinetics heal overlapping me instead of empty space because someone else happens to knockback his anchor a fraction of a second before the Kinetics presses Transfusion. I certainly have fun when Soul Drain hits multiple foes as opposed to two or three because someone else was having "fun" scattering everything I took the time to get in the middle of.

 

Most times I see people justifying their actions on the basis of fun it invariably is only their own fun they are talking about.

[Ukase]

On 10/28/2019 at 1:38 PM, Gravitus said:

So I was in a BAF today and 2 or 3 people were bitching about my group fly and asked me to turn it off. I refused .

 

#1 : Im a bots MM. Bots are pure range. Taking them out of melee range is a wise decision on my part.

 

#2 At the end game content I already have enough issue with my tier 1 pets getting killed too easily . So yeah, not going to put them needlessly in Melee range; especially when they’re ranged pets.

 

#3 If you don’t like being effected by group fly you can turn it off via null the gull. Thats why he exists . Quality of life enhancements .

 

#4 when robots fly they get a thruster animation and it just looks and feels awesome .

 

Case and point: 
 

Im not going to alter the way I play because you’re bad at this game or too lazy to go to null. 
 

#endrant

Interesting. While I understand your perspective, I would appreciate it you'd consider this thought: many people have NO idea what Null the Gull does, aside from changing alignment on the fly. 

I certainly had no idea. And even if I did know it, why in the world would I choose to stop group fly when I've never, ever encountered it in game? I have teamed with bot MMs before, and none of them used group fly. Am I some kind of mind reader? Did you at least mention this Group Fly scenario before the BAF was queued? Have you ever thought about what you would do in a Magisterium, when mobility to avoid thunderous splash from the sky is vitally important? If I were stuck in a slow group fly, I'd be too slow to avoid it, I would think. 

I do see your side of things - and I'm glad you chose to post so that I can take action. Bear in mind though, I've 30 level 50 toons. Am I supposed to take each one there to Null, or will one suffice? 

Maybe an easier thing for me is to simply not team with you. Not that you're a bad guy, but because teaming with you creates more work for me that I really don't need to take time for. Consider that mindset, as many have already decided the solution is to avoid you rather than work with you - if they don't know you. 

I'm sure that you're a competent player, and probably a fine person. But the way you're coming off is "my way or the high way".  Me, I don't know you - I'll take the highway. If I'd been league leader, I'd have asked you to turn it off - and if you refused, I'd have booted you, or taken a vote to see if you should be, as I've forgotten if a leader can boot someone from an iTrial. I do remember there being a vote system available. But, I lack the patience the better leaders have, so that's the route I would take. 

[jubakumbi]

4 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

I tend to enjoy the Kinetics heal overlapping me instead of empty space because someone else happens to knockback his anchor a fraction of a second before the Kinetics presses Transfusion. I certainly have fun when Soul Drain hits multiple foes as opposed to two or three because someone else was having "fun" scattering everything I took the time to get in the middle of.

 

Most times I see people justifying their actions on the basis of fun it invariably is only their own fun they are talking about.

Sure, that rubs both ways though.

I tried an Kinetics/Energy blast defender back in the day ... even I am not that much of a masochist.

 

The whole point IMO is that no one is 'right'.

Both players are just trying to have fun using thier powers.

It's how we choose to interact with other players, IMO, that defines who we are as humans.

Just as I won't try and screw up AoEs with KB, I won't tell the KB player to stop, I will just race them to the next group.

 

The moment someone talks about doing anything 'efficiently' on anything other than a dedicated speed run of some kind, they turn the game into a job or a task, not super-happy-fun-time, IMO.

As soon as people add arbitrary 'rules' and start talking about kicking players, they become bosses rather than leaders.

 

There are very few humans that do, in fact put the needs of others or the group first, that is human nature.

Science has proven even the most altruistic people really just do it for the dopamine anyway.

Humans are selfish creatures.

[Solarverse]

5 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

So you don't, in fact, berate and kick people for GF or AoE KB?

No. under no circumstance do I, nor shall I berate anyone for using a power in game or even using it against the team's wishes.

5 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Seems a lot like that has been your whole schtick.

Nope.

5 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Are you going to tell me with a straight face that if a majority of the group besides you do not bring up these things, and you are the leader, that you would not, in fact, kick them for not following your rules, when a clear majority of the team is not on your side?

Will you just kick them all?

Huh? First, if my team is all about the knock back, then I don't care. If the Tank is fine with it, the blasters are fine with it and the Trollers are fine with it, then why should I care? This whole thread I have repeatedly stated that I will only kick players who go against the grain of the "team." I have made this stance several times.

5 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

I mean, if we are going to make up use cases, we need to explore them all, right?

Do you, in fact, take a vote, or do you just 'decide'?

Now, this is hypothetical...but if I build the team from scratch, and I don't know any of the players on that team, then I will make a suggestion/request for the player to not knock back targets away from the Tank. If the player refuses or ignores me, I will then ask the team as a whole, "Hey team, he seems pretty set on knocking mobs, is everyone okay with this?" If the team does not reply (which is about half the times) then I do nothing. The player is not kicked and the team continues on. However, if the team responds with the stance they are annoyed by it, then the player in question gets another request to please be more team friendly. If the player continues, then they are gone.

 

If it is a team I built that consisted of SG/Friends/Coalition, then there is no open question. I already know their stance on scattered mobs and don't need to ask. The player in question will be asked nicely to play team friendly, if said player refuses, they are gone.

5 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

 

I mean, if you are going to go Vulkan, go all the way...fully use Logic over Emotion...why not pour over the exact composition of each team for each encounter and make the most logically sounds choice of prescribing how each person uses each power, in the best order, to kill the enemy the right way, everytime?

Hahaha! I won't be doing any of that, lol.

5 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Why pick and choose over when to tout Logic over Emotion?

Why not take a vote for every choice, if the needs of the many are more important, is it not the star holder repsosibility to do what the teams wants, not what the star holder desires?

Covered this up there. ^

[ShardWarrior]

15 minutes ago, Lines said:

I keep the map up all the time in the bottom right of the screen. In an MSR I zoom it in so I can always see who and where where other herders are and I can go a different direction. I'm watching my map closely if I'm herding in an MSR. It's also obvious when all three bomb areas have all their mobs that nobody else has been herding.

 

I don't mind if other tanks or brutes decide not to herd, that's up to them. I do my best to stay out of the way of the others and if another picks up mine with a taunt as long as they're going down into the middle, I try and salvage my aggro cap by grabbing from the shelf or moving on quickly. If a scrapper or someone has decided to get into a fight near my herd and my herd turns to fight them, I end up in an aggro tug-of-war that, partly due to the render limit, can take a couple of minutes to even figure out if it's worth doing or moving on.

That's great!  How much XP/Inf/merits are you losing out on from 1 person occasionally pulling a mob off of you? 

[Lines]

7 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

That's great!  How much XP/Inf/merits are you losing out on from 1 person occasionally pulling a mob off of you? 

My statement was that one can be enough to slow me down, which is true and I've discussed that. There can often be three or four people on the shelf or on the slopes.

 

Edit: If I were interested in the rewards, I wouldn't be herding at all. I'm trying to get rewards for other people.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Lines

[Ukase]

On 10/28/2019 at 11:06 PM, Bossk_Hogg said:

If you think it's worth the time to clump things up to knock them into obstacles, rather than just obliterating them, I think it says more about the weakness of your teams and builds...

 

KB isn't worth the time it takes to "use it well". Its a killing speed debuff, either in scattering mobs or wasting time trying to optimize a bad secondary effect. A team with a sonic blast defender would have just had them dead. Random chance for knockback is a joke next to a stacking 20% damage resist debuff.  

KB isn't a killing speed debuff. It's damage mitigation, simply put. Incoming damage mitigation. That's all. The players that use are doing so to prevent them from taking hits. That, and it comes inherent in the power they chose. They didn't chose it to bother melee or AoE specialists. While I understand that you find it bothersome, and you've every right to your feelings and thoughts, play styles and players will differ. It's what makes this game so incredible. Without these differences, the game would be too simple and dull. Embrace the challenges. 

[ShardWarrior]

5 minutes ago, Lines said:

My statement was that one can be enough to slow me down, which is true and I've discussed that. There can often be three or four people on the shelf or on the slopes. 

That's a fantastic answer to a question I didn't ask. 

[jubakumbi]

5 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

No. under no circumstance do I, nor shall I berate anyone for using a power in game or even using it against the team's wishes.

Nope.

Huh? First, if my team is all about the knock back, then I don't care. If the Tank is fine with it, the blasters are fine with it and the Trollers are fine with it, then why should I care? This whole thread I have repeatedly stated that I will only kick players who go against the grain of the "team." I have made this stance several times.

Now, this is hypothetical...but if I build the team from scratch, and I don't know any of the players on that team, then I will make a suggestion/request for the player to not knock back targets away from the Tank. If the player refuses or ignores me, I will then ask the team as a whole, "Hey team, he seems pretty set on knocking mobs, is everyone okay with this?" If the team does not reply (which is about half the times) then I do nothing. The player is not kicked and the team continues on. However, if the team responds with the stance they are annoyed by it, then the player in question gets another request to please be more team friendly. If the player continues, then they are gone.

 

If it is a team I built that consisted of SG/Friends/Coalition, then there is no open question. I already know their stance on scattered mobs and don't need to ask. The player in question will be asked nicely to play team friendly, if said player refuses, they are gone.

Hahaha! I won't be doing any of that, lol.

Covered this up there. ^

So, you intorduce the idea of censuring the player, right out of the gate, for using AoE KB, when you see it, giving the whole team the idea?

Really, that's how I read that.

The moment you see it happen, you bring it up as if it's a problem, or because you 'know' it's a 'problem' because of your cliche.

How is that not a militant, negative stance on it?

How is that not an automatic effort to censure a player over it?

 

You see it happen and then automatically assume a stance that it is a problem...that you will ignore if no one else agrees...but a problem none the less, to you and your cliche.

 

To me, you have a mental list of unwritten rules and if other break those rules, they need to be censured.

[Solarverse]

3 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

So, you intorduce the idea of censuring the player, right out of the gate, for using AoE KB, when you see it, giving the whole team the idea?

Really, that's how I read that.

The moment you see it happen, you bring it up as if it's a problem, or because you 'know' it's a 'problem' because of your cliche.

How is that not a militant, negative stance on it?

How is that not an automatic effort to censure a player over it?

 

You see it happen and then automatically assume a stance that it is a problem...that you will ignore if no one else agrees...but a problem none the less, to you and your cliche.

 

To me, you have a mental list of unwritten rules and if other break those rules, they need to be censured.

Meh, I didn't see it that way. However, I'm more of a face value kind of guy and I tend not to read too much in to things. But I hear ya.

[Lines]

10 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

That's a fantastic answer to a question I didn't ask. 

I can't answer how much xp/inf/merits I lose out on from herding, because I already lose most of the rewards by going out of reward range to collect the herds. Altogether I reckon I end up with 60%-70% less reward than anyone else on the raid anyway. If I cared about the xp/inf/merits, I wouldn't be herding at all. I'd stay in the middle and reap everything like everyone else. I'm trying to get as much as I can for everyone else, not myself.

 

I'm trying to answer your questions will all the information that I have, and I don't know why you're singling me out here without having a point of your own to make. Are you saying I shouldn't be annoyed when people are being annoying?

 

Naturally I will ask in league chat to let the herds get snug into the middle before engaging them and I'll ask it as many times as I feel like I have to. I will mitigate the issue all I can, in good humour, but obviously folks don't always understand and on rare occasion people like to troll or benefit themselves before the group.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Lines

[ShardWarrior]

I already made my point.  1 person soloing has little to no impact on rewards the league is getting in the raid. 

[Solarverse]

4 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

I already made my point.  1 person soloing has little to no impact on rewards the league is getting in the raid. 

Your point is not backed by evidence. I may be wrong, but neither one of you can prove your points without a controlled testing environment.

[jubakumbi]

10 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Meh, I didn't see it that way. However, I'm more of a face value kind of guy and I tend not to read too much in to things. But I hear ya.

I try to see the face value and the deeper intent, as the meta is all that matters to me.

As I stated, how we treat each other is all that matters in my delusion.

Motivations as to why humans choose to take out thier 'aggresions/stress/FUD' on other players in MMOs fascinates me.

 

[Lines]

30 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

I already made my point.  1 person soloing has little to no impact on rewards the league is getting in the raid. 

 

Shall we just not herd, then, if we're not having enough of an impact for you?

 

1 hour ago, Lines said:

If there's 20 minutes left after the bomb and Ukon phase, I can normally manage about 8-12 herds in a raid, with 17 mobs per herd. (That's if I go non-stop. If others are herding too, I'll fight a few between herds which will lower that number, so I can actually get some rewards.) So let's say about 150 mobs altogether and whatever rewards they give. If I find I'm yoyoing to try and aggro interrupted herds, I reckon that number drops down to 5-7. Trying to taunt mobs off a player takes longer than the whole herd all together, because of that dang slope into the bowl. In that one time I kept seeing the same player interrupt my herds, I barely managed to contribute anything. That's frustrating - I have one job in an MSR, for which I get rewarded less than those in the bowl, and I'd like to be able to get on with it.

Best case: 12 herds, 204 merits, 2,221,723xp,  (assuming as a worst case scenario that all the herds are lt level and no bosses or EBs were herded)

Worst case: 5 herds, 85 merits, 925,718xp

 

That's a difference of 119 merits and 1,296,005xp between my best and my worst performance, the biggest contributor being when herds are interrupted.

 

I don't want to keep talking about MSR in a thread not about MSR. If you'd like to continue discussing this, please do PM me. I'm happy to try and share my experience of this with you.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Lines
Took out something a little too snarky, even for me. Sorry, Shard. I wrote 'your highness' after the first comment, don't want to come across that way.