Siderous Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 I would like to suggest having both a +res armor and a + def armor in the epic pools and patron powers. Make it where you can only choose one of the two and locks out the other. This would allow for more freedom of concept. I hate being shoe horned into ice or mace if I want +def armor. Please..... pretty please..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biostem Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Siderous said: I would like to suggest having both a +res armor and a + def armor in the epic pools and patron powers. Make it where you can only choose one of the two and locks out the other. This would allow for more freedom of concept. I hate being shoe horned into ice or mace if I want +def armor. Please..... pretty please..... While I'm all for more options, you have to keep in mind that the powers in those pools are basically pulled from existing sets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siderous Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 1 minute ago, biostem said: While I'm all for more options, you have to keep in mind that the powers in those pools are basically pulled from existing sets... There are plenty of defense toggle powers they could pull from and adjust numbers... it's not like an armor has much visual effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biostem Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, Siderous said: There are plenty of defense toggle powers they could pull from and adjust numbers... it's not like an armor has much visual effect. Well, some do, and it's not like you can't just take tough/weave or get more defense/resist from IOs... If we were talking about unlimited development resources, then sure, add ALL the options! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haijinx Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Thematically certain types of armors are resist, others defense. Fire is resist, Ice is defense. Electric is resist, Energy is defense. Etc. So really they work as intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call Me Awesome Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 The easiest way would be to just create a clone of the armor power and change it's effect, so Resist becomes Defense and vice versa. A possible snag could be the "mutually exclusive" bit; as far as I know there's no way currently in game to make selecting power A prevent you from also selecting power B. The closest that comes to mind is the Sorcery/new Jumping pool whatever it's called where you can only choose one of the two pools. Guardian Survivor, occasional tanker and player of most AT's. Guides: Invulnerability Tankers, The first 20 levels. Invulnerability Tankers Soft Cap defense Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrider_01 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Or passive non graphic armor as in works but not like melee passive sets, like tough / weave except for the activation bobbing. OP doesn't say what AT, this is assuming melee sets. "Farming is just more fun in my opinion, beating up hordes of angry cosplayers...." - Coyotedancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haijinx Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Outrider_01 said: Or passive non graphic armor as in works but not like melee passive sets, like tough / weave except for the activation bobbing. OP doesn't say what AT, this is assuming melee sets. Epic armor is only available for Defenders, corruptors, blasters, Dominators, Controllers, and Masterminds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepp Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 32 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said: The easiest way would be to just create a clone of the armor power and change it's effect, so Resist becomes Defense and vice versa. A possible snag could be the "mutually exclusive" bit; as far as I know there's no way currently in game to make selecting power A prevent you from also selecting power B. The closest that comes to mind is the Sorcery/new Jumping pool whatever it's called where you can only choose one of the two pools. Practiced Brawler/Master Brawler for Sentinel Super Reflexes. 1 Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Great Archetype Concept Battle: Final Round -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archetype Proposal Amalgamation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call Me Awesome Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 14 hours ago, Zepp said: Practiced Brawler/Master Brawler for Sentinel Super Reflexes. Never played or looked at Sentinels so I didn't know about that. Looking over Mid's it seems like a complete no brainer to pick Practiced Brawler... status protection or an Absorb power with an unspecified bonus? Duh, I wonder which to choose...... Guardian Survivor, occasional tanker and player of most AT's. Guides: Invulnerability Tankers, The first 20 levels. Invulnerability Tankers Soft Cap defense Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Ninja Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) If your AT gets armour powers in their Epic/Patron powers there is already both +def and +res armours, hell Cold Mastery for Blasters have an armour that can have either/both +res and +def. If your AT already gets +def or +res from your primary or secondary you don't get it from your epics. Not sure why you'd expect otherwise. Am I missing something here? Edited November 7, 2019 by Lost Ninja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call Me Awesome Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Lost Ninja said: If your AT gets armour powers in their Epic/Patron powers there is already both +def and +res armours, hell Cold Mastery for Blasters have an armour that can have either/both +res and +def. If your AT already gets +def or +res from your primary or secondary you don't get it from your epics. Not sure why you'd expect otherwise. Am I missing something here? Most of the Epic armors are resistance based with only a couple choices for defense based epic armors. Yes, only squishy characters get the option but different builds benefit from different choices and if your Defender or Blaster needs defense then you either choose one of the few defense providing epic pools or you settle for the less useful resistance armor and get a different pool that the rest of the set is more useful. What people want is the ability to choose an Epic pool based on the overall usefulness and then take the armor in that pool that complements their build... something that's very limiting if you want a defense based armor. The suggested solution is to have two mutually exclusive armors in each set, one that provides resistance and one that provides defense. Pick one of the two. Guardian Survivor, occasional tanker and player of most AT's. Guides: Invulnerability Tankers, The first 20 levels. Invulnerability Tankers Soft Cap defense Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thezanman Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 7 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said: Never played or looked at Sentinels so I didn't know about that. Looking over Mid's it seems like a complete no brainer to pick Practiced Brawler... status protection or an Absorb power with an unspecified bonus? Duh, I wonder which to choose...... "If you own Master Brawler you will also gain resistance to Knockback and Immobilization powers." If you own Master Brawler you will also gain resistance to Disorient, Hold, Sleep powers." Descriptions for Focused Fighting and Focused Senses in Mids. It is a no-brainer to pick Master Brawler, not Practiced Brawler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepp Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Thezanman said: "If you own Master Brawler you will also gain resistance to Knockback and Immobilization powers." If you own Master Brawler you will also gain resistance to Disorient, Hold, Sleep powers." Descriptions for Focused Fighting and Focused Senses in Mids. It is a no-brainer to pick Master Brawler, not Practiced Brawler. 58.48% choose Master Brawler 38.01% choose Practiced Brawler 3.51% choose to use neither There are three options, a significant percentage of players choose each of the three options. As such, none of the options are a "no-brainer" as they fit different builds in different ways. Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Great Archetype Concept Battle: Final Round -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archetype Proposal Amalgamation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Ninja Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 4 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said: Most of the Epic armors are resistance based with only a couple choices for defense based epic armors. Yes, only squishy characters get the option but different builds benefit from different choices and if your Defender or Blaster needs defense then you either choose one of the few defense providing epic pools or you settle for the less useful resistance armor and get a different pool that the rest of the set is more useful. What people want is the ability to choose an Epic pool based on the overall usefulness and then take the armor in that pool that complements their build... something that's very limiting if you want a defense based armor. The suggested solution is to have two mutually exclusive armors in each set, one that provides resistance and one that provides defense. Pick one of the two. Well yeah but isn't that the whole point of choosing different things? Ah homogeneity, which is IMO at odds with the idea of actually having meaningful choice. If you can choose anything anyway why have a meaningful choice in the first place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call Me Awesome Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 27 minutes ago, Thezanman said: "If you own Master Brawler you will also gain resistance to Knockback and Immobilization powers." If you own Master Brawler you will also gain resistance to Disorient, Hold, Sleep powers." Descriptions for Focused Fighting and Focused Senses in Mids. It is a no-brainer to pick Master Brawler, not Practiced Brawler. I didn't look at the descriptions for Focused Fighting & Senses; I thought I knew them from the Scrapper version, I just looked at Master Brawler's description. It didn't occur to me that mez protection would be handled totally differently than the same powerset on another AT. That being the case then I understand the appeal of the power. Guardian Survivor, occasional tanker and player of most AT's. Guides: Invulnerability Tankers, The first 20 levels. Invulnerability Tankers Soft Cap defense Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunkiLord Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 23 hours ago, Zepp said: Practiced Brawler/Master Brawler for Sentinel Super Reflexes. I don't know where the post is, but I recall a month or two ago CP saying something along the lines of they wish they didn't do that and likely won't happen again for other powers. The Trevor Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepp Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, MunkiLord said: I don't know where the post is, but I recall a month or two ago CP saying something along the lines of they wish they didn't do that and likely won't happen again for other powers. I was just pointing out that it was possible, I made no value judgements. Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Great Archetype Concept Battle: Final Round -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archetype Proposal Amalgamation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thezanman Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Zepp said: 58.48% choose Master Brawler 38.01% choose Practiced Brawler 3.51% choose to use neither There are three options, a significant percentage of players choose each of the three options. As such, none of the options are a "no-brainer" as they fit different builds in different ways. Perhaps that’s because, as we just saw, the description isn’t clear enough on what Master Brawler does. In fact, it does everything Practiced Brawler does, without requiring a reactivation every two minutes, and gives an absorb shield on top of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor Cure Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) If Master Brawler is in fact giving resistance to mez effects (as in actual res, and not just a misleading power description), it is way way less desirable than PB. PB gives mez protection. Mez resistance just means those effects wear off faster, but will still actually mez you. Looking at Mids, there is no info on MB..so either 58% of people somehow think mez res is better than protection, or the info is just off. 11 hours ago, Lost Ninja said: If your AT gets armour powers in their Epic/Patron powers there is already both +def and +res armours There really isn't. Frozen Armour and ScorpShield are def based..that just happen to have a very minor +res to one element. The major benefit of that is as slot mules for the 2 +def IOs. The resists aren't worth slotting otherwise. Edited November 8, 2019 by Razor Cure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thezanman Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Razor Cure said: If Master Brawler is in fact giving resistance to mez effects (as in actual res, and not just a misleading power description), it is way way less desirable than PB. PB gives mez protection. Mez resistance just means those effects wear off faster, but will still actually mez you. Looking at Mids, there is no info on MB..so either 58% of people somehow think mez res is better than protection, or the info is just off. There really isn't. Frozen Armour and ScorpShield are def based..that just happen to have a very minor +res to one element. The major benefit of that is as slot mules for the 2 +def IOs. The resists aren't worth slotting otherwise. It is protection. You have to look at the details of focused fighting and focused senses, not master brawler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepp Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 If you look at the "more information" function in-game, it seems that it is just an absorb shield. Mids treats it the same way. Has anyone actually got the numbers for what Master Brawler does rather than the description (which appears to be wrong) or speculation? Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Great Archetype Concept Battle: Final Round -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archetype Proposal Amalgamation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigged Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 On 11/7/2019 at 1:41 PM, Call Me Awesome said: The easiest way would be to just create a clone of the armor power and change it's effect, so Resist becomes Defense and vice versa. A possible snag could be the "mutually exclusive" bit; as far as I know there's no way currently in game to make selecting power A prevent you from also selecting power B. The closest that comes to mind is the Sorcery/new Jumping pool whatever it's called where you can only choose one of the two pools. I do believe that sentinel master brawler piggybacks on the code that locks out the similar powers for VEAT Crab Spiders. Taking frag or venom grenade will lock out the equivalent counterpart across the huntsman/crab sets. However, the Homecoming devs apparently really dislike this code and have said they will avoid it going forward. Everlasting, even though I do not RP, as: Doctor Hadius, Crab Spider (Main) ~ Aeronwen, Rad/Super Strength/Mu Tanker ~ Mortality Black, Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender ~ Vextravaganza, Illusion/Dark/Psi Controller ~ Baneframe, Robots/Time/Mace Mastermind ~ Zippy-Zap, Electric Armor/Dark Melee/Soul Tanker ~ Laser Lily, Beam Rifle/Energy Aura/Leviathan Sentinel ~ Nezumiko, Savage Melee/Bio Armor/Mu Stalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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