does ninjitsu give you stalker level stealth?

[DougGraves]

I've been trying out stalker and was thinking of trying scrapper, since I haven't played one since coming back.  I'm thinking of making a Tsoo so I am going with kinetic melee.  

 

Naturally ninjitsu makes sense for a ninja so I was looking at that.  One of the powers gives stealth - is that stalker level stealth or just superspeed type stealth?

 

And how is kin/ninjitsu on a stalker - or is there a better pairing for kin/ that would still work with a Tsoo concept?

[quixoteprog]

I believe the only power better than a Stalker's hide is Superior Invisibility from Illusion set. Everything else looks to be significantly lower. Although, I usually take stealth at some point on most characters since it is so handy and it works pretty well for most purposes.

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Stealth_and_Perception

[JasonZZ]

Scrapper ninjitsu gives superspeed level stealth through Shinobi-Iri, although you can slot a movement stealth IO in it for better.

[BrandX]

No, but put a Stealth IO in Shinobi-Iri and it becomes Invis level, and I don't recall much seeing past it.

 

However, you can save a slot and put the stealth IO in Sprint.  Or, as I did, I put the extra slot in Sprint and nabbed an extra 2.25% S/L Resist with the set bonus.

[Redlynne]

On 12/20/2019 at 10:02 AM, DougGraves said:

One of the powers gives stealth - is that stalker level stealth or just superspeed type stealth?

Superspeed type magnitude of stealth on a Scrapper.

The only thing that gives Stalker magnitudes of stealth is Hide ... which you can only get on a Stalker.

[Doomguide2005]

On 12/20/2019 at 11:18 AM, quixoteprog said:

I believe the only power better than a Stalker's hide is Superior Invisibility from Illusion set. Everything else looks to be significantly lower. Although, I usually take stealth at some point on most characters since it is so handy and it works pretty well for most purposes.

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Stealth_and_Perception

Generally Super Speed plus a Stealth IO is usually sufficient in PvE.  Or Stealth IO plus a power like Steamy Mist or Shadowfall.

[Haijinx]

Stalkers are so close to scrappers, if this is a big consideration, you could possibly reroll as a stalker.

 

Though the scrapper Ninja set looks to be better than the Stalker one.  

 

 

[HelenCarnate]

With Shinobi-Iri and a stealth IO in sprint I can dance on most mobs and they don't see me.  Exceptions of course for the mobs that can see through stealth.  Not Hide levels but still gets the job done.

[Roderick]

15 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Generally Super Speed plus a Stealth IO is usually sufficient in PvE.  Or Stealth IO plus a power like Steamy Mist or Shadowfall.

 

4 hours ago, HelenCarnate said:

With Shinobi-Iri and a stealth IO in sprint I can dance on most mobs and they don't see me.  Exceptions of course for the mobs that can see through stealth.  Not Hide levels but still gets the job done.

There are a few enemies that can see through doubled up stealths like this, but don't outright ignore stealth. Specifically, anything that has a +Perception buff. If you ever see an enemy do the Leadership toggle animation, and they get a yellow aura, that's going to boost Perception for all their nearby allies. Knives of Artemis and their Incarnate versions may have +Perception as well (I don't think everything in those factions do). If you can stack three stealths (A power, plus an IO, plus Super Speed), you should be able to sneak up to these guys too.

Snipers have a much larger +Perception. They will see even a Stalker using Hide, an IO and Super Speed before they get to melee range.

 

There are also those flying enemies who have [Positioning], which is a debuff aura that tells them to move to range. If you're in melee range when it pulses, it will just cancel your stealth; it counts as getting hit, and I think it's autohit. However, it seems to have a fairly long time between pulses (5-ish seconds?), so you can often run up to one of those enemies and hit them before they break your stealth.

[siolfir]

16 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Stalkers are so close to scrappers, if this is a big consideration, you could possibly reroll as a stalker.

 

Though the scrapper Ninja set looks to be better than the Stalker one.  

 

 

That's because during the port, they decided to the most common complaint (no KB protection) but not actually adjust the original version. I'm still annoyed that it was ported, in part because I disagree with "port everything everywhere regardless of fit" and in part because thematically it makes more sense for the hidden assassin secondary to go exclusively to the hidden assassin AT.

 

5 hours ago, Roderick said:

Snipers have a much larger +Perception. They will see even a Stalker using Hide, an IO and Super Speed before they get to melee range.

No, they won't. They can see the Stalker if Hide is suppressed, though. Rikti drones ignore whatever level of stealth you have, snipers have a very high base perception that Hide is greater than as long as you are high enough level that the cap isn't below 150. Note that the stealth cap starts off low, and so a level 1 Stalker is capped at (iirc) 50 feet of stealth, which means that standing right next to any boss will get you seen.

[Doomguide2005]

2 hours ago, siolfir said:

That's because during the port, they decided to the most common complaint (no KB protection) but not actually adjust the original version. I'm still annoyed that it was ported, in part because I disagree with "port everything everywhere regardless of fit" and in part because thematically it makes more sense for the hidden assassin secondary to go exclusively to the hidden assassin AT.

 

No, they won't. They can see the Stalker if Hide is suppressed, though. Rikti drones ignore whatever level of stealth you have, snipers have a very high base perception that Hide is greater than as long as you are high enough level that the cap isn't below 150. Note that the stealth cap starts off low, and so a level 1 Stalker is capped at (iirc) 50 feet of stealth, which means that standing right next to any boss will get you seen.

This, the base at 50 is 149ft ... so they could be seeing you interact with a previous mob and then they have a lock on as I understand it even if you've reHidden 

[BrandX]

7 hours ago, siolfir said:

That's because during the port, they decided to the most common complaint (no KB protection) but not actually adjust the original version. I'm still annoyed that it was ported, in part because I disagree with "port everything everywhere regardless of fit" and in part because thematically it makes more sense for the hidden assassin secondary to go exclusively to the hidden assassin AT.

 

No, they won't. They can see the Stalker if Hide is suppressed, though. Rikti drones ignore whatever level of stealth you have, snipers have a very high base perception that Hide is greater than as long as you are high enough level that the cap isn't below 150. Note that the stealth cap starts off low, and so a level 1 Stalker is capped at (iirc) 50 feet of stealth, which means that standing right next to any boss will get you seen.

What?

 

Scrappers had Dark Armor before there was a Ninjitsu power set.  Scrappers having Ninjitsu should've always been a thing.  The question is, would the devs have ported Ninjitsu as we have in HC and if so, would they have changed up the Stalker version a bit.

[siolfir]

43 minutes ago, BrandX said:

Scrappers had Dark Armor before there was a Ninjitsu power set.  Scrappers having Ninjitsu should've always been a thing.

Dark Armor != hidden assassin. The folklore ninja was an assassin, attacking from the shadows and disappearing without a trace. Of any AT in the game, what does that describe? I'll give you a hint: it's not scrappers.

[Redlynne]

12 hours ago, siolfir said:

Dark Armor != hidden assassin. The folklore ninja was an assassin, attacking from the shadows and disappearing without a trace.

Back in the OLD days, a friend and I had a joke about Dark Armor on a Scrapper that went kind of like this ...

 

 

 

Council Lieutenant in Striga to Minions:  Alright men, look alive!  There's a Dark Armor Scrapper coming.

Minions (in unison):  What?

 

Lieutenant (louder):  I said, there's a Dark Armor Scrapper coming!

Minions (also louder):  What?

 

Lieutenant (even louder): I SAID, THERE'S A DARK ARMOR SCRAPPER COMING!

Minions (even louder):  WHAT??

 

Lieutenant (yelling):  I SAID ... THERE'S A DARK ARMOR SCRAPPER COMING!

Minions (also yelling):  WHAT?!?

 

Lieutenant (gesturing frantically):  THERE'S A DARK ARMOR SCRAPPER COMING!!

Minions (also gesturing frantically):  WE CAN'T HEAR YOU, BECAUSE THERE'S A DARK ARMOR SCRAPPER COMING!!!

 

 

 

The joke, of course, being that in those days, Dark Armor was SO FORKING LOUD ALL THE TIME(!!!) and the sound of it never faded away(!!) that it was impossible to imagine EVER not informing everything within a 100 yard PBAoE that you were in the neighborhood.  Stealthy ambush?  UNpossible!  I mean, any time you entered a ZONE, every hostile NPC would be alerted to your presence and your every move, because they could hear you coming from BLOCKS away.

 

Fortunately Cryptic decided to allow the sound FX of Dark Armor to ... fade ... after a while, but in the early days of the game, Dark Armor was just this LOUD HUMMING MONSTROSITY everywhere it went and it never got quiet(er).  Needless to say, much hilarity ensued whenever a Dark Armor Scrapper claimed to have toggled on Stealth ...

Edited December 28, 2019 by Redlynne

[Haijinx]

Back then I could only stand regen.  Since without stamina everything was so painful.  

 

Except with claws you could do say SR with claws and survive until you got stamina.  

[BrandX]

13 hours ago, siolfir said:

Dark Armor != hidden assassin. The folklore ninja was an assassin, attacking from the shadows and disappearing without a trace. Of any AT in the game, what does that describe? I'll give you a hint: it's not scrappers.

If we go by that logic, then Stalker's shouldn't have Ninjitsu, because that's not how they play.  Never was a good way to play either.  Assassin strike.  Placate.  Wait.  Wait.  Wait.  Assassin strike.  Placate.  Wait...

 

All Hide on a Stalker was good for, if one didn't want to wait around forever, was the initial hit, and even then, if one was playing fast enough, one wasn't always getting back into hide, by the time you were at the next mob.