Kheldians. General Improvements and Null Gull Option

[Bossk_Hogg]

1 minute ago, boggo2300 said:

nope

nuh uh, you. We done scro?

Edited January 9, 2020 by Bossk_Hogg

[Doomrider]

5 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

I hate with a passion the Jihad on this forum against KB so I disagree with the changes being made to Sent's as well

I would rather there were MORE disparity between ATs and powers rather than less, the suggestions threads here really feel like homogenisation and power creep more than anything, and it make me really sad! it honestly wouldn't take too many of these suggestion threads getting through to make me leave the game because it wouldn't be the game I love

The vendetta some folks have with KB comes from poor utilization mostly, not the mere fact the KB exists, it's how players choose to use it. It can be used to great effect, it can also be used haphazardly. 
In my experience, the latter seems to be more prevalent. That being said, it doesn't bother me personally when people use KB, though on my Khelds I slot KB-KD IO's more so out of courtesy, that and on my Peacebringer in particular it is very much advantageous to do so while I solo as keeping the mobs bunched up rather than scattering them feels an indirect buff to my damage which is nice on an AT that isn't particularly high on the damage spectrum. 

Furthermore, I think many suggest this change be made not only for the sake of saving slots and not having to slot KD IO's but also in part to improve the stigma Kheldians have. That when one joins your team, you can expect they will scatter mobs and be more a detriment to your team than an asset. I don't fully agree with that sentiment but I understand where it comes from.

[Monos King]

Let's make a new citrus powered Kheldian called Duskwalkers that are identical to Peacebringers but have no knockback and no forms and have access to epic pools and see how that turns out. For giggles.

Edit: They are also orange.

Edit: This isn't a joke this is for real make it happen right now.

Edited January 9, 2020 by monos1

[boggo2300]

Just now, Bossk_Hogg said:

nuh uh, you. We done scro?

why should I repeat myself over and over (at least the 4th time in this thread) to people who don't listen and would rather cling to their own points of view no matter what?

[boggo2300]

1 minute ago, Doomrider said:

The vendetta some folks have with KB comes from poor utilization mostly, not the mere fact the KB exists, it's how players choose to use it. It can be used to great effect, it can also be used haphazardly. 
In my experience, the latter seems to be more prevalent. That being said, it doesn't bother me personally when people use KB, though on my Khelds I slot KB-KD IO's more so out of courtesy, that and on my Peacebringer in particular it is very much advantageous to do so while I solo as keeping the mobs bunched up rather than scattering them feels an indirect buff to my damage which is nice on an AT that isn't particularly high on the damage spectrum. 

Furthermore, I think many suggest this change be made not only for the sake of saving slots and not having to slot KD IO's but also in part to improve the stigma Kheldians have. That when one joins your team, you can expect they will scatter mobs and be more a detriment to your team than an asset. I don't fully agree with that sentiment but I understand where it comes from.

I know where it comes from, I just don't agree with the religious purge it's spawned and you know only ONE type of Kheldian has KB right? 

[boggo2300]

3 minutes ago, monos1 said:

Let's make a new citrus powered Kheldian called Duskwalkers that are identical to Peacebringers but have no knockback and no forms and have access to epic pools and see how that turns out. For giggles.

Edit: They are also orange.

easier way, just make them Brutes and CALL them Kheldians 😄

[Monos King]

1 minute ago, boggo2300 said:

easier way, just make them Brutes and CALL them Kheldians 😄

lol that would be practically the same thing wouldn't it. With like 2 exceptions.

[Doomrider]

 

3 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

I know where it comes from, I just don't agree with the religious purge it's spawned and you know only ONE type of Kheldian has KB right? 

This is a joke right? You know both Warshades and Peacebringers do KB correct? I really hope this was a joke...

[Widower]

This is a reminder that we very strongly prefer constructive, well-argued debate in this forum. I humbly request you comport yourselves in this manner.

[boggo2300]

3 minutes ago, Doomrider said:

 

This is a joke right? You know both Warshades and Peacebringers do KB correct? I really hope this was a joke...

Unless you slot a WS for KB most people would be pushed to notice

[ScarySai]

8 hours ago, boggo2300 said:

Unless you slot a WS for KB most people would be pushed to notice

Dark detonation (Especially the human version), Gravatic, quasar and shadow blast are all capable of knockback and are all very frequently in use by shades.

 

Do you even play a Kheldian? You seem very eager to shut down discussion on QoL, but completely uninformed with how the ATs actually work.

Edited January 9, 2020 by ScarySai

[boggo2300]

6 hours ago, ScarySai said:

Dark detonation (Especially the human version), Gravatic, quasar and shadow blast are all capable of knockback and are all very frequently in use by shades.

 

Do you even play a Kheldian? You seem very eager to shut down discussion on QoL, but completely uninformed with how the ATs actually work.

I have 11 Shades and 5 PB and from what you've said so far I'd say Pot meet Kettle, we had some great QOL suggestions under discussion until this ridiculous crusade against KB reared it's head here as well, which will now be lost in the noise I'm guessing, ones that actually would have BEEN QOL improvements

Edited January 9, 2020 by boggo2300

[ScarySai]

42 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

we had some great QOL suggestions under discussion 

I didn't know 'no' counted as a discussion, but that's an interesting spin.

 

42 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

we had some great QOL suggestions under discussion until this ridiculous crusade against KB reared it's head here as well

Nah. It's a legitimate concern considering it's prevalence with the ATs, especially for Peacebringers. The fact you don't like it and choose to act childlishly about it doesn't make it a 'crusade'.

 

42 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

I'd say Pot meet Kettle

I'd say you need to check your definitions. I'll be ignoring you now to focus on the discussion at hand, try to be productive.

Edited January 9, 2020 by ScarySai

[Redlynne]

On 1/8/2020 at 8:27 AM, ScarySai said:

3: Making peacebringer knocks KD by default would help a lot of newer players not get shunned, and also just make builds a lot cleaner.

So ... THIS ...?

[ScarySai]

14 hours ago, Redlynne said:

So ... THIS ...?

Skimmed a bit, it looks like we're on the same page. 😛

[Saiyajinzoningen]

its interesting that in a game that is so heavily customizable  people are against more options

[Sakura Tenshi]

Weighing in on this topic just a bit:

There's no doubt Kheldians can be strong on their own. But let me ask if they can be strong WITHOUT inventionsets and/or heavily specialization? Because no matter what some people think. I'm pretty sure the homecoming devs are still balancing this game around SOs per-the live devs (thus, also why so many things can become an easy faceroll). And the disparity between Kheldians and SoAs are pretty massive if you do some power values comparison. From what I can see, SoAs have melee on par with stalkers, ranged on par with corruptors, armor on par with tanks, and buffs/debuffs on par with defenders, and SoAs similarly were built with a 'jack of all trades' role in mind with a permanent specialization at level 24 (which can even be completely ignored), and their means of doing are much more favorable in the forms of team buff auras that also help the SoA's own survivability, all on top of SoAs lacking a special weakness like Kheldian ATs (you want balance? call me when Arachnos pays an independent contractor to flip a very big middle finger to SoAs to 'keep them in line and remember who their boss is')

 

Now, enough fist shaking at SoAs, some of my own thoughts on how to improve Kheldian ATs...

 

First thing that might help is adding a second debuff to their attacks, -tohit for PBs and -Dam for Warshades. Conceptually, a PB's blinding light striking foes leaves their senses too dazzled to accurately retaliate, and a Warshade's former life as an essence draining parasite means all their attacks still siphon strength from foes. Mechanically, this means Kheldians have improved survivability by reducing incoming damage, further, this makes them a stronger team player, with their large number of attacks (and especially if we could extend the timer on just how long their debuffs last) PBs could utterly destroy an enemy's ability to evade or hit back, while Warshades would neuter enemies that might run as well as their ability to even hurt opponents with now anemic attacks.

 

Second idea, which could be used in conjunction with the first, is to take a page out of the fighting pool and have Kheldian powers possess synergy with one another. Have certain power picks strengthen Dwarf and Nova forms while picking Dwarf and Nova could provide strong benefits back to human form, I'm hazy on numbers or details, but this could encourage more taking up forms a bit more.

 

Admittedly, the detoggle is another problem that needs to be addressed, and I really don't think "lol, learn to macro" should be the only solution to make it manageable. Because, once more, it sort of pushes Kheldian players into needing go increasingly out of the base game just to be enjoyable as other ATs.

 

Also, as a side, besides their lethality to specific teammate(s), I've always been fine with the extra spawns of void hunters. Better than fine in some cases, they will spawn beyond the spawn limit, and that means more EXP and loot! Why would anyone complain about that? Well, besides the kheld players themselves who would be understandably PO'd from getting smacked in the face by a powerful attack (that some people say they want to be irresistable) they have no means to reliably take out of the picture. Combine with being a Kheldian running a malta mission, you're basically boned as even a warshade can only use their hold on the sapper or void hunter.