Consolidated CoH difficulty thread (Includes Poll!)

[Chris24601]

1 hour ago, GamerRick said:

This of course is not the case 100% of the time but it happens enough that now I am a full blown altaholic. I play my 50’s pretty much to buy stuff for my alts.  

And lo, you have discovered the TRUE endgame*... 😀

 

* I mean, we have A THOUSAND character slots PER SERVER. What are they there for if not to use them?

[Grouchybeast]

23 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

There is some great stuff out there if you wanna crank up the challenge (Night Ward anyone?). But, why do that when you could just stomp council in PI for the same price?

For fun?  I mean, there are a sizable number of people who try to create builds that can take down a pylon in a fraction of a second less than another build, and that certainly isn't for the in-game rewards.

 

I have to assume that there are not, in fact, a vast number of people in CoX logging on every night thinking, woe, how I yearn to fight Malta and Carnies, but my philosophical commitment to getting the greatest reward for the least amount of effort forces me once more to the salt mines of +4/x8 Council.  I have to assume that they're picking Council missions because that's what they actually prefer to do.  I don't think enjoying facerolling Council is some kind of moral failing that needs to be corrected, either.  It's just how some people want to play.

 

If the rewards were restructured so that other content gave better rewards, then those people who play solely Council papers in PI would instead be playing solely the new highest reward/least effort content.  We'd be back exactly where we are now, except that everyone would be complaining that all everyone does is farm DA repeatable missions, or whatever else became the new favourite.

 

I do know that I see all kinds of groups advertised in LFG.  Lots of PI papers, sure, but also people running all kinds of lower level missions.  There are always, always more people willing to join a group than are willing to start one, and none of those teams seem to have any trouble filling up.

[Shred Monkey]

I feel like we just need some new content that is advanced.  Don't rework what we've got, but add new.

 

Personally, I want Task Forces, not trials.  The standard 8-man dungeon crawl semi-random mission is really what makes this game unique among MMOs.  Most games 5-25 unique dungeon maps.  This game has hundreds of maps and multiple ways to spawn random maps with random enemies.   Don't lose this, build on it.

 

Level 54 AVs are actually pretty difficult to solo when at 50+1, so a +3 AV is a good starting point.  You could create more boss confrontations with level 54+3 AVs plus an added battle specific mechanic.  Battle Maiden in Apex TF is a one example (although she needs follow and move off her damage patch quicker so Melee don't get stuck twiddling their fingers for most of the fight).  Marauder in Lambda is another good example of final confrontation that has an added mechanic that makes it easier if used properly.  Keyes and TPN are actually really well done, but horribly lacking in explanation of what's actually going on.  Learn from that and make sure any new mechanics being introduced are difficult because they're tricky, but not difficult because they're vaguely defined.

 

Also 1 last thing... I'd like to see a bonus reward for running a TF on +4.  Maybe a guaranteed purple drop or Hami-O.  It needs to be something of enough significance that people will make +4 attempts.  Perhaps this can be done with incarnate threads or super inspirations.   But it needs to be something people are willing to work for.  You can put this reward on a cool down timer if it scares your sense of balance by too much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Galaxy Brain]

4 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

For fun?  I mean, there are a sizable number of people who try to create builds that can take down a pylon in a fraction of a second less than another build, and that certainly isn't for the in-game rewards.

 

I have to assume that there are not, in fact, a vast number of people in CoX logging on every night thinking, woe, how I yearn to fight Malta and Carnies, but my philosophical commitment to getting the greatest reward for the least amount of effort forces me once more to the salt mines of +4/x8 Council.  I have to assume that they're picking Council missions because that's what they actually prefer to do.  I don't think enjoying facerolling Council is some kind of moral failing that needs to be corrected, either.  It's just how some people want to play.

 

If the rewards were restructured so that other content gave better rewards, then those people who play solely Council papers in PI would instead be playing solely the new highest reward/least effort content.  We'd be back exactly where we are now, except that everyone would be complaining that all everyone does is farm DA repeatable missions, or whatever else became the new favourite.

 

I do know that I see all kinds of groups advertised in LFG.  Lots of PI papers, sure, but also people running all kinds of lower level missions.  There are always, always more people willing to join a group than are willing to start one, and none of those teams seem to have any trouble filling up.

I dont think it's like a moral failing so much as a more subconscious thing. When given the choice between the two, you go Council cus F Carnies. If Carnies gave more reward, there would at least be the thought of risk vs reward at play to experience more content, and Carnies naturally have harder fights anyways where it wont be as much a faceroll.

[Grouchybeast]

1 minute ago, Galaxy Brain said:

I dont think it's like a moral failing so much as a more subconscious thing. When given the choice between the two, you go Council cus F Carnies. If Carnies gave more reward, there would at least be the thought of risk vs reward at play to experience more content, and Carnies naturally have harder fights anyways where it wont be as much a faceroll.

But why worry that much about how other people are playing the game?  I assume that people pick Council because they've already experienced the content in question: they've tried Council and they've tried Carnies, and as you say, F Carnies.  What would be improved about the overall game if Carnie rewards were raised so that people thought 'well, I really hate fighting Carnies, but I guess I'll grit my teeth and do it for the rewards'?

[Heraclea]

1 hour ago, Grouchybeast said:

But why worry that much about how other people are playing the game?  I assume that people pick Council because they've already experienced the content in question: they've tried Council and they've tried Carnies, and as you say, F Carnies.  What would be improved about the overall game if Carnie rewards were raised so that people thought 'well, I really hate fighting Carnies, but I guess I'll grit my teeth and do it for the rewards'?

Rather, if fighting Carnies brought faster rewards, people would roll alts tuned for fighting Carnies.  My /electric armor brute doesn't mind them very much; the most annoying thing about them forthat character is their habit of spawning persistent unkillable pets.  The same character laughs at Malta Sappers.  All you will really achieve here is to change the flavor of the month.  I have 15 level 50s now and something has to work. 

[Galaxy Brain]

Just to touch base here, we have a few answers with over 100 picks a piece:

175: I would play on an advanced difficulty setting only if it were optional

 

165:  Introduce specific “advanced” enemies to shake up combat with either special attack powers or enemy-buffs

 

118:  Existing enemy groups should have their rewards balanced to scale to their difficulty

 

116:  Ramp up difficulty per team member in some way specifically to combat “Steamroll”

 

101:  Existing enemy groups should get glow-ups to make them challenging

 

 

Consensus seems to favor an Optional setting for "Hard Mode". When this setting is selected, "Advanced" enemies can spawn with new, unique powers to oppose players with. Existing, and new enemy groups should also probably get a rewards pass for scale, and / or get makeovers to still be thematically tough. In addition to all this, the hard-mode should have an emphasis on combating steamroll in some way.

 

[Infinitum]

7 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Just to touch base here, we have a few answers with over 100 picks a piece:

175: I would play on an advanced difficulty setting only if it were optional

 

165:  Introduce specific “advanced” enemies to shake up combat with either special attack powers or enemy-buffs

 

118:  Existing enemy groups should have their rewards balanced to scale to their difficulty

 

116:  Ramp up difficulty per team member in some way specifically to combat “Steamroll”

 

101:  Existing enemy groups should get glow-ups to make them challenging

 

 

Consensus seems to favor an Optional setting for "Hard Mode". When this setting is selected, "Advanced" enemies can spawn with new, unique powers to oppose players with. Existing, and new enemy groups should also probably get a rewards pass for scale, and / or get makeovers to still be thematically tough. In addition to all this, the hard-mode should have an emphasis on combating steamroll in some way.

 

I like the Apex battle maiden approach, that would be fun to have options like that.  Maybe name that Ultimate enemies and put it in the selection where ebs avs are.

[Galaxy Brain]

Looks like designing / revamping existing enemies to add new content could be the way to go.

[Sakura Tenshi]

12 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Looks like designing / revamping existing enemies to add new content could be the way to go.

It's a valid path, albeit perhaps the hardest one, though one with the highest potential for reward. I think even the live devs vastly underestimated their players even before the launch of IOs, I feel like only three enemy groups lived up to being end-game difficulty: Malta, The Carnival, and Arachnos. You could argue Nemesis but Nemesis' entire difficulty circles around stacking vengeance. The Carnival, Malta, and Arachnos have multiple gimmicks which make you stop and figure out which you need to prioritize first, but all of them have some nasty tricks to deal with the players.

 

And other level 50 enemy groups are Freakshow who's best power is their self-rez which ends up making them reward pinatas more than a threat, Nemesis was covered, Council and Circle possess diverse damage type but lack any special debuffs or what-have-you that make them a real threat, KoA was so bland as a three critter faction with the exact same attacks through all tiers that they had to get possessed by the Talons to be vaguely interesting, and then the Rikti were honestly a poor threat the moment one could get SOs and shut down anything with mezzes. And it kind of goes on like that.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

It's a valid path, albeit perhaps the hardest one, though one with the highest potential for reward. I think even the live devs vastly underestimated their players even before the launch of IOs, I feel like only three enemy groups lived up to being end-game difficulty: Malta, The Carnival, and Arachnos. You could argue Nemesis but Nemesis' entire difficulty circles around stacking vengeance. The Carnival, Malta, and Arachnos have multiple gimmicks which make you stop and figure out which you need to prioritize first, but all of them have some nasty tricks to deal with the players.

 

And other level 50 enemy groups are Freakshow who's best power is their self-rez which ends up making them reward pinatas more than a threat, Nemesis was covered, Council and Circle possess diverse damage type but lack any special debuffs or what-have-you that make them a real threat, KoA was so bland as a three critter faction with the exact same attacks through all tiers that they had to get possessed by the Talons to be vaguely interesting, and then the Rikti were honestly a poor threat the moment one could get SOs and shut down anything with mezzes. And it kind of goes on like that.

Rularu should be in there. And the DA variations.

[Sakura Tenshi]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

Rularu should be in there. And the DA variations.

Rularuu, yes, but not DA stuff since I'm saying several of these mobs are not that difficult even on the base game SOs.

[srmalloy]

4 hours ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

I think even the live devs vastly underestimated their players even before the launch of IOs, I feel like only three enemy groups lived up to being end-game difficulty: Malta, The Carnival, and Arachnos. You could argue Nemesis but Nemesis' entire difficulty circles around stacking vengeance.

Nemesis also have the Tirailleurs that spawn with the regular mobs, increasing the chances of winding up having to fight several spawns at once because the snipers aggroed their spawn on you.

[TheEmpyrean]

A selectable Peak Difficulty setting that takes advantage of the EB and Monster (not GM) classes.  Lots and lots of EBs and Monsters.  At peak difficulty settings, make Lieutenants the new minion, bosses the new Lieutenants, and EB/Monster the new Boss.  I'd play that all day long on Radios, PUG, Arcs, what have you.  It'd be a blast.

 

The EB and Monster class are both grossly underutilized except for maybe in the ITF.  They have so much more potential to increase challenge and fun in game play, and they already exist!

Edited August 21, 2020 by TheEmpyrean

[chi1701]

I dont mind increased difficulty as long as 1 condition is met. Archytypes and powers should be balanced so we dont see them blocked from playing at a this new difficulty range.

Edited August 21, 2020 by chi1701

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, chi1701 said:

I dont mind increased difficulty as long as 1 condition is met. Archytypes and powers should be balanced so we dont see them blocked from playing at a this new difficulty range.

There is no set or at in the game, not force field, not sonic, not sentinels, that would be shut out of such content.

[chi1701]

41 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

There is no set or at in the game, not force field, not sonic, not sentinels, that would be shut out of such content.

Fingers crossed your right.

[Gulbasaur]

1 hour ago, chi1701 said:

I dont mind increased difficulty as long as 1 condition is met. Archytypes and powers should be balanced so we dont see them blocked from playing at a this new difficulty range.

As someone who invites lowbies into incarnate content to give it some challenge... I really don't think we'd see that. The game community is so anti-meta in team composition I don't think it'd be a problem.

[amendara]

I would really like "special" enemies randomly appearing to shake things up.  I noticed I am always excited when a Kheldian is on the team because quantums might show up and shake things up, makeing it more fun.  Maybe make the chance of these enemies appearing be tied to how easy a faction is.  For example, high chance appearing with Council and low chance with Malta.

 

I think this solution is easy to add and makes the game more interesting.

 

Too much council steamrolling goes on and it trains people to miss a lot of the other interesting content out there.

 

Maybe also increase story arc rewards to encourage players to run them over radios.