Acrobatics...how good is it?

[Ukase]

CoH isn't a game about destination, but a journey. As I've played, I've tried numerous ATs, numerous power-set combos, with many more to explore on my list. Recently, I'd discovered that I really like Rune of Protection - not for the resistance, but for the hold break/protection for my characters that don't get it - i.e. what some of you call "squishy". 

I don't call my blasters/defenders/corruptors "squishy", because I don't believe they are. I build them to be tough! 

I was monitoring the help channel when an MM was worried about kb, and I suggested a kb proc, which handles most of the kb problems easily and fairly cheaply, too.  But, then someone suggested Acrobatics for the kb, as well as the hold resistance. Presumably, Acrobatics can protect against a mag 2 hold. While that's a useful bit of data, it doesn't tell me if that's enough to protect against a +2 CoT Mage at level 16, or any other npc. 

The problems with Acrobatics is it would require me to get SJ or or Jump Kick. I could deal with SJ, I suppose. Or use Jump Kick as a mule for a kin combat set, if push came to shove. But I don't really want SJ as a travel power. I much prefer SS. It would also use up .18/s endurance - another toggle to run. 

In contrast, Sorcery with Rune gives mystic flight, which while it isn't super fast, I don't have to worry about it running out like I do a p2w Jet Pack. And Spirit Ward or Arcane Bolt are nothing to brag about, either. Either route I go, I have to take powers I don't really like, nor will use often, if at all. 

 

So - I can easily just "try it", but I figured I'd simply ask for your thoughts on Acrobatics and if you found it worthwhile. 

[Fan Mail]

Before they had the invention system, I used Acrobatics.  Now that KB protection can be bought, this is my choice.  Every time.

Edited February 9, 2020 by tafilr

[Ukase]

Yeah, I have been doing the same...but if the hold resistance aka "2 mag hold" protection is useful, it may be worthwhile. I just don't know the mag of the hold the npcs use. 

[SwitchFade]

Acro was basically required on anything squishy for the KB pre invention. Since io's, it's superfluous. The mag 2 stun protection is offers is useless about 85% of the time, as next to no NPCs have mag 2, it's mag 3 and up. The cost of the toggle vs the end and pool pick it consumes is a terrible choice when the few breakfrees that are pretty standard in everyone's tray and a single io with KB protection are the same.

[EmmySky]

I still use acro on many of my toons....but I havent ventured very far past common IOs.  The bonus' and some set IOs can provide it so I may be dropping it but for a cheap and highly functional common IO build I find it handy if I have space in the build for the power pick.

[Ukase]

41 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Acro was basically required on anything squishy for the KB pre invention. Since io's, it's superfluous. The mag 2 stun protection is offers is useless about 85% of the time, as next to no NPCs have mag 2, it's mag 3 and up. The cost of the toggle vs the end and pool pick it consumes is a terrible choice when the few breakfrees that are pretty standard in everyone's tray and a single io with KB protection are the same.

Well, that makes it an easy choice. No acrobatics. 

Thanks. 

 

[RobotLove]

In acro's defense, the Blaster ATO Defiant Barrage slotted into your T1 or T2 can break you out of a mag 3 hold with a single proc. It's a decent pick for a budget friendly blapper (100 merits for the proc). But if all you're after is the KB protection, IO's are the way to go.

[Queen Nefertiti]

I tend to use blessing of the zephyr in my travel power. It gives a 4 point knockback resistance which is good against most things.

[SwitchFade]

Further reason to avoid acro:

 

Mag 7 KB protection is 3 points of useless. You either need 4, or 11, which is why for nearly all content 1 KB prot io is perfect. Two mag 4 casting bosses will break acro. Only in pvp will you see more, and then it's huge, 20+ in high end builds. The power, like most pool powers, for some reason were neglected during live.

Edited February 9, 2020 by SwitchFade

[siolfir]

3 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Acro was basically required on anything squishy for the KB pre invention.

Pre-inventions it was 100 points of protection (and didn't have any hold protection), so it was also worth it even right after inventions since it was essentially complete immunity.

[Replacement]

Entirely because it annoys me that Super Jump is the one travel power that often deals damage to me (even though it's minuscule and nonthreatening), I've been thinking this past year that it'd be excellent if Acrobatics had a small recurring +absorb shield - like 40-50% the strength of a Blaster Sustain shield.

[EmmySky]

6 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Entirely because it annoys me that Super Jump is the one travel power that often deals damage to me (even though it's minuscule and nonthreatening), I've been thinking this past year that it'd be excellent if Acrobatics had a small recurring +absorb shield - like 40-50% the strength of a Blaster Sustain shield.

I too get damage landing!  To be fair, I also pull this off with fly lol. 

[biostem]

7 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Entirely because it annoys me that Super Jump is the one travel power that often deals damage to me (even though it's minuscule and nonthreatening), I've been thinking this past year that it'd be excellent if Acrobatics had a small recurring +absorb shield - like 40-50% the strength of a Blaster Sustain shield.

Flight will also "deal damage to you" if you fall too far.  SJ simply increases your jump height;  It doesn't make you immune to fall damage.  As long as you jump and land exactly has high as the power permits, you won't take damage...

[Replacement]

8 minutes ago, biostem said:

Flight will also "deal damage to you" if you fall too far.  SJ simply increases your jump height;  It doesn't make you immune to fall damage.  As long as you jump and land exactly has high as the power permits, you won't take damage...

Well and good on paper.  In practice, I think anyone traveling to a mission (unless you're really boring and SJ along the roads only, in which case you really should be enjoying a different travel power) is going to see their landing height change very frequently.

 

Emphasis moment: minuscule and nonthreatening.  I lead out the gate with the knowledge that this idea of mine first came about out of a petty annoyance.

 

The fact that it'd be a good buff to a really weak All-In Pool Power just happens to be a nice benefit.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Replacement

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Replacement said:

Well and good on paper.  In practice, I think anyone traveling to a mission (unless you're really boring and SJ along the roads only, in which case you really should be enjoying a different travel power) is going to see their landing height change very frequently.

 

Emphasis moment: minuscule and nonthreatening.  I lead out the gate with the knowledge that this idea of mine first came about out of a petty annoyance.

 

The fact that it'd be a good buff to a really weak All-In Pool Power just happens to be a nice benefit.

Well, one option would be to make SJ completely negate fall damage, but this would have other ramifications.  Your suggestion, if implemented, would basically make SJ another "must have" power like tough or weave.  Alternatively, just don't jump to the maximum height, use steam jump or the jump pack, or otherwise deal with the small amount of damage.

[Replacement]

1 minute ago, biostem said:

Well, one option would be to make SJ completely negate fall damage, but this would have other ramifications.  Your suggestion, if implemented, would basically make SJ another "must have" power like tough or weave.  Alternatively, just don't jump to the maximum height, use steam jump or the jump pack, or otherwise deal with the small amount of damage.

I'm of a mind that we only have so many power picks, and that numbers could be tuned low enough to be "nice" without being "necessary."  But this is a fair point and a good warning.

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, Replacement said:

I'm of a mind that we only have so many power picks, and that numbers could be tuned low enough to be "nice" without being "necessary."  But this is a fair point and a good warning.

I wonder if the game can differentiate fall damage from other forms of damage.  If so, then something like a buff with a semi-long cooldown which heals you if you take fall damage, could work, (or a highly specialized damage shield which couldn't be stacked with tough, weave, other defensive powers or IO set bonuses).

[macskull]

On 2/9/2020 at 3:12 PM, SwitchFade said:

Acro was basically required on anything squishy for the KB pre invention. Since io's, it's superfluous. The mag 2 stun protection is offers is useless about 85% of the time, as next to no NPCs have mag 2, it's mag 3 and up. The cost of the toggle vs the end and pool pick it consumes is a terrible choice when the few breakfrees that are pretty standard in everyone's tray and a single io with KB protection are the same.

Every player and NPC has mag 1 protection against any kind of mez just for existing, though you won't find this in the combat attributes anywhere. This is why you can get hit with, say, Dominate from Malaise (mag 3) and you'll still be fine if you're running Acrobatics. I can't find a list but I'm pretty sure the only other holds that exceed mag 3 in the game also exceed mag 10 which means they'll also tag any melee characters through their mez protection toggle/click power.

22 hours ago, siolfir said:

Pre-inventions it was 100 points of protection (and didn't have any hold protection), so it was also worth it even right after inventions since it was essentially complete immunity.

That changed in issue 12 because I think the point was never for it to have complete KB immunity. At least now it's 9 points (2 of which are enhanceable so you could in theory get it as high as 13.2 points or so but that'd require 6 slots.

 

Basically yeah Acrobatics isn't useful for a PvE build unless you're foregoing IOs entirely, but it's pretty much mandatory for a PvP build if you don't have in-set knockback resistance and protection.

[Riverdusk]

On 2/10/2020 at 2:27 PM, macskull said:

Every player and NPC has mag 1 protection against any kind of mez just for existing, though you won't find this in the combat attributes anywhere. This is why you can get hit with, say, Dominate from Malaise (mag 3) and you'll still be fine if you're running Acrobatics. I can't find a list but I'm pretty sure the only other holds that exceed mag 3 in the game also exceed mag 10 which means they'll also tag any melee characters through their mez protection toggle/click power.

 

 

Basically yeah Acrobatics isn't useful for a PvE build unless you're foregoing IOs entirely, but it's pretty much mandatory for a PvP build if you don't have in-set knockback resistance and protection.

That's what I remembered as well, but trying to find it anywhere in the wiki was a fail for me (it lists the mag protections different enemies have, but not what the player base status protection is anywhere I could find).

 

Been a while since I've used acrobatics but I remembered I rarely got held through it on a character I took it on back on live game.  As mentioned and I believe is accurate, you usually have to be hit with 2 holds, and on top of that Acrobatics also has some hold resistance, which lowers the time the status is on you.  That makes it tougher for things to stack those holds against you.  I remember it being useful even in pve to me (on characters that don't otherwise have any hold protection).

 

Of course now a days you have rune of protection, the P2W vendor buff (though expensive past mid levels), and incarnate powers as some alternatives.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Riverdusk