Combat Proc questions

[macskull]

2 hours ago, Chance Jackson said:

Really? 

In the case he's talking about (where he's got a power that does -res that also has some damage procs slotted in it) the -res from the power is applied at the exact same time as the damage procs so those procs won't be affected by the -res, but any subsequent damage will.

[roleki]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

Did you happen to look at the proc in your damage aura? I'm curious if procs triggered every 5 seconds or 10.

The proc in the Damage Aura seems to hit every 10s; it seemed to work out better for the +End/+Regen proc than for the Fury proc, and it *seems* the duration AND the proc check are both 10s for that End/Regen proc. 

You'll have to forgive me because the way they display Endurance Discount in the Combat Attributes window is a little funky, but:

 

I have 114 endurance and walk through the door with a -10.10 endurance discount.

Once I hit a mob and the proc fires, I go to a -15.17 discount.

Ten seconds later, I go to a -19.70 discount.

Ten seconds later, I go to a -23.77 discount.

 

Now, here's where it gets weird.  If combat with my first 'supermob' goes on forever, I'll stay at a -23.77 discount until the last of the mob is dead.  But if I hit -23.77 then flit off to rile up one mob, then flit into another and hit THAT mob, I get a brief spike to -30.79, then almost immediately -33.53, then a spike to -36.62, and all the way back down to -23.77 where I will stay until everything is dead.  All that wild movement takes place over a period of about 5 seconds.  

 

Another odd thing (to me, but maybe the Fury mechanic explains it):

 

 With the Fury proc in Burn, if I faceroll through combat I'll start at 89 Fury or so, pop to 93, MAYBE hit 96, then settle in the 92/94 range as I go through my attack chain.  But if I just stand there mashing Burn every 6.4s, I hit 100.00 Fury for about 4s, drop, to 97/98, hit 100 again on the next Burn, and repeat.  It seems like the less I do, the more Fury I have?  That seems... off.

 

[Bopper]

4 minutes ago, roleki said:

But if I just stand there mashing Burn every 6.4s, I hit 100.00 Fury for about 4s, drop, to 97/98, hit 100 again on the next Burn, and repeat.  It seems like the less I do, the more Fury I have?  That seems... off.

That does seem off. Great find and great testing. If I get time I'll see if I can make sense of it.

[Obus Form]

2 hours ago, roleki said:

Now, here's where it gets weird.  If combat with my first 'supermob' goes on forever, I'll stay at a -23.77 discount until the last of the mob is dead.  But if I hit -23.77 then flit off to rile up one mob, then flit into another and hit THAT mob, I get a brief spike to -30.79, then almost immediately -33.53, then a spike to -36.62, and all the way back down to -23.77 where I will stay until everything is dead.  All that wild movement takes place over a period of about 5 seconds. 

 

It would seem, the proc is firing/checking a lot more often than every 10 seconds (whatever "a lot" means) in that 5 second window?

Edited February 21, 2020 by tinygodzilla
Grammar

[roleki]

6 hours ago, tinygodzilla said:

It would seem, the proc is firing/checking a lot more often than every 10 seconds (whatever "a lot" means) in that 5 second window?

Now that I have had time to think about it, it occurs to me that I am bound to see weird results with anything dealing with endurance and recovery, on account I have Superior Conditioning/Physical Perfection and Stamina all slotted with PShift procs and Miracle/Numina's/Panacea procs in Health, then Ageless Core Epiphany on top of all that.  

 

For all I know, one, some, or all of those could have occasionally hit one after another after another and given me weird numbers in my Attributes window.  

 

I will say that, slotted in my damage aura, the notification text for when the +End/+Regen only appeared in the combat logs every 10s.  

[Obus Form]

4 hours ago, roleki said:

Now that I have had time to think about it, it occurs to me that I am bound to see weird results with anything dealing with endurance and recovery, on account I have Superior Conditioning/Physical Perfection and Stamina all slotted with PShift procs and Miracle/Numina's/Panacea procs in Health, then Ageless Core Epiphany on top of all that.  

 

For all I know, one, some, or all of those could have occasionally hit one after another after another and given me weird numbers in my Attributes window.  

 

I will say that, slotted in my damage aura, the notification text for when the +End/+Regen only appeared in the combat logs every 10s.  

That's interesting.  I'll try out some empirical testing tonight.

 

From what I gather, the only source of undulating End Discount is from this Brute ATO proc.  All other IOs and powers that give End Discount last forever or a long time.

 

If I understand my own anecdotal exp correctly, what I'm noticing was that the +End Discount would proc from mob #1, then if I jumped to mob #2, the Quills icon (I slotted into Quills) would show "2" even if it was less than 10 seconds (closer to 2-3 seconds) from Mob #1.  I noticed that moving from Mob #1 to #2 to #3 gave me "3" stack of Quills icon even if all 3 were sequentially tagged in less than 10 seconds, and all aggrod via sequential "waves of Quills" AOE damage.  My combat log, as yours, only mentioned it every 10 seconds, but my experience leads me to believe the actual proc occurs more often than the combat log shows?

 

Will test more/again tonight and post

 

Edit: I remember reading somewhere that damage auras do damage in either 2 or 2.5 second intervals.  So hitting a "3" stack sequentially implies 2 or 2.5 second proc checks.

Edited February 21, 2020 by tinygodzilla

[Bopper]

20 minutes ago, tinygodzilla said:

Edit: I remember reading somewhere that damage auras do damage in either 2 or 2.5 second intervals.  So hitting a "3" stack sequentially implies 2 or 2.5 second proc checks.

Damage auras have small intervals (2 seconds usually), however the procs in those auras work off the interval of the enhancement (10 seconds). This was changed sometime during live, which nerfed buzzsaw builds (where powers like caltrops and burn would tick so often the procs would fire at an impressive rate).

[Obus Form]

4 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Damage auras have small intervals (2 seconds usually), however the procs in those auras work off the interval of the enhancement (10 seconds). This was changed sometime during live, which nerfed buzzsaw builds (where powers like caltrops and burn would tick so often the procs would fire at an impressive rate).

Yeah you're right, I remember that happening, which is why it seemed odd that the Quills showed a change in stacks faster than once per 10 seconds.

[Obus Form]

Empirically tested by listening to the AOE Quills “squish” and O_O watching the Combat Attributes Regeneration Rate and Endurance Consumption (looking for a decrease):

Superior Unrelenting Fury (+regen/+end discount):

• The text: approximately 7ppm, stacks up to 5 times.
• I am going to separate between the Regen portion and the End Discount because
  • The +Regen seems to last exactly 2 seconds
  • The +End Discount I can’t tell how long the buff lasts because once I reach 5 stacks of discount, the end discount remains there
• Regen:
  • It procs/checks to proc not every 10 seconds.  I generalize to “not every 10 seconds” because it’s not exactly every 2 second of Quills AOE damage, but neither is it steadily ever 4 seconds, or 6
  • I conjecture each 1 stack of the 5 stacks is on a separate 10 second check because every 10 seconds I see exactly 3 stacks of regen occur, then 2 stacks, then 2 stacks.  This behavior is periodic on a 10 second (every 5 “squish” sounds) interval.  Oddly, there is always at least 1 stack of +Regen
• End Discount:
  • It procs/checks exactly every 10 seconds.  Every 5^th sound of “squish” I see Endurance Consumption decrease by X amount.  However, the Endurance Discount stays at the maximum 5 stacks, unlike +Regen, which lasts exactly 2 seconds (1 “squish” sound).
• Quills:
  • I removed the proc from Quills and ran a farm but Quills still shows a stack number beside it, which I conjecture shows the # of mobs it has aggro’d because it always maxes at 11, and the in-game description indicates 10 mobs can be aggro’d by Quills.  Death Shroud AOE damage, on the other hand, does not show any numbers/stacks regardless if it has a Brute ATO proc IO or not, or if it’s hitting enemies or not.

 

I haven’t tested the +7 Fury because I don’t know where to see that “buff” in Combat Attributes?  If anyone knows, let me know and I'll happily test it out.

[Bopper]

2 hours ago, Obus Form said:

Empirically tested by listening to the AOE Quills “squish” and O_O watching the Combat Attributes Regeneration Rate and Endurance Consumption (looking for a decrease):

Superior Unrelenting Fury (+regen/+end discount):

• The text: approximately 7ppm, stacks up to 5 times.
• I am going to separate between the Regen portion and the End Discount because
  • The +Regen seems to last exactly 2 seconds
  • The +End Discount I can’t tell how long the buff lasts because once I reach 5 stacks of discount, the end discount remains there
• Regen:
  • It procs/checks to proc not every 10 seconds.  I generalize to “not every 10 seconds” because it’s not exactly every 2 second of Quills AOE damage, but neither is it steadily ever 4 seconds, or 6
  • I conjecture each 1 stack of the 5 stacks is on a separate 10 second check because every 10 seconds I see exactly 3 stacks of regen occur, then 2 stacks, then 2 stacks.  This behavior is periodic on a 10 second (every 5 “squish” sounds) interval.  Oddly, there is always at least 1 stack of +Regen
• End Discount:
  • It procs/checks exactly every 10 seconds.  Every 5^th sound of “squish” I see Endurance Consumption decrease by X amount.  However, the Endurance Discount stays at the maximum 5 stacks, unlike +Regen, which lasts exactly 2 seconds (1 “squish” sound).
• Quills:
  • I removed the proc from Quills and ran a farm but Quills still shows a stack number beside it, which I conjecture shows the # of mobs it has aggro’d because it always maxes at 11, and the in-game description indicates 10 mobs can be aggro’d by Quills.  Death Shroud AOE damage, on the other hand, does not show any numbers/stacks regardless if it has a Brute ATO proc IO or not, or if it’s hitting enemies or not.

 

I haven’t tested the +7 Fury because I don’t know where to see that “buff” in Combat Attributes?  If anyone knows, let me know and I'll happily test it out.

Can you repeat the test with a different aura and confirm if you are seeing the same thing? I will test it out tonight as well on my Spines/Fire. I'm very curious about the regen

[Obus Form]

33 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Can you repeat the test with a different aura and confirm if you are seeing the same thing? I will test it out tonight as well on my Spines/Fire. I'm very curious about the regen

I confirm, the results on Quills have been replicated on Death Shroud.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Obus Form

[Bopper]

38 minutes ago, Obus Form said:

I confirm, the results on Quills have been replicated on Death Shroud.

Thanks. Very peculiar. I wonder if it's intended. Given the short duration of the regen, perhaps it uses a smaller interval for checks. 

[Bopper]

2 hours ago, Obus Form said:

I confirm, the results on Quills have been replicated on Death Shroud.

 

5 hours ago, Obus Form said:

Empirically tested by listening to the AOE Quills “squish” and O_O watching the Combat Attributes Regeneration Rate and Endurance Consumption (looking for a decrease):

Superior Unrelenting Fury (+regen/+end discount):

• The text: approximately 7ppm, stacks up to 5 times.
• I am going to separate between the Regen portion and the End Discount because
  • The +Regen seems to last exactly 2 seconds
  • The +End Discount I can’t tell how long the buff lasts because once I reach 5 stacks of discount, the end discount remains there
• Regen:
  • It procs/checks to proc not every 10 seconds.  I generalize to “not every 10 seconds” because it’s not exactly every 2 second of Quills AOE damage, but neither is it steadily ever 4 seconds, or 6
  • I conjecture each 1 stack of the 5 stacks is on a separate 10 second check because every 10 seconds I see exactly 3 stacks of regen occur, then 2 stacks, then 2 stacks.  This behavior is periodic on a 10 second (every 5 “squish” sounds) interval.  Oddly, there is always at least 1 stack of +Regen
• End Discount:
  • It procs/checks exactly every 10 seconds.  Every 5^th sound of “squish” I see Endurance Consumption decrease by X amount.  However, the Endurance Discount stays at the maximum 5 stacks, unlike +Regen, which lasts exactly 2 seconds (1 “squish” sound).
• Quills:
  • I removed the proc from Quills and ran a farm but Quills still shows a stack number beside it, which I conjecture shows the # of mobs it has aggro’d because it always maxes at 11, and the in-game description indicates 10 mobs can be aggro’d by Quills.  Death Shroud AOE damage, on the other hand, does not show any numbers/stacks regardless if it has a Brute ATO proc IO or not, or if it’s hitting enemies or not.

 

I haven’t tested the +7 Fury because I don’t know where to see that “buff” in Combat Attributes?  If anyone knows, let me know and I'll happily test it out.

I can't seem to replicate your findings on the test server. I am seeing procs every 10 seconds, and the duration of both the +regen and +endurance discount last 30 seconds per stack. Using superior unrelenting fury in Quills.

 

One thing is peculiar though. Despite having a ton of enemies around me (Monkeys on Rikti Island in PI), I only get 1 stack of the +end/regen every 10 seconds. It's odd behavior for something that says it can stack up to 5 times.

 

When I moved the proc to Blazing Aura, behavior changed. I started to see multiple stacks, but they would last momentarily (2 seconds maybe). It is very weird behavior. I still retained the 1 stack for 30 seconds, but the extra stacks that came with that proc disappeared after 2 seconds.

 

I decided to switch the proc back to Quills, and it went back to its behavior. Only 1 proc per 10 seconds, each lasting 30 seconds. Never multiple stacks from a single proc opportunity.

 

Edit:

It seems to be similar for other AoE attacks. My Ripper never procs more than once. Seems to me this proc is best suited for a ST attack

Edited February 22, 2020 by Bopper

[Obus Form]

56 minutes ago, Bopper said:

 

I can't seem to replicate your findings on the test server. I am seeing procs every 10 seconds, and the duration of both the +regen and +endurance discount last 30 seconds per stack. Using superior unrelenting fury in Quills.

 

One thing is peculiar though. Despite having a ton of enemies around me (Monkeys on Rikti Island in PI), I only get 1 stack of the +end/regen every 10 seconds. It's odd behavior for something that says it can stack up to 5 times.

 

When I moved the proc to Blazing Aura, behavior changed. I started to see multiple stacks, but they would last momentarily (2 seconds maybe). It is very weird behavior. I still retained the 1 stack for 30 seconds, but the extra stacks that came with that proc disappeared after 2 seconds.

 

I decided to switch the proc back to Quills, and it went back to its behavior. Only 1 proc per 10 seconds, each lasting 30 seconds. Never multiple stacks from a single proc opportunity.

 

Edit:

It seems to be similar for other AoE attacks. My Ripper never procs more than once. Seems to me this proc is best suited for a ST attack

Do you mean, it's best suited for AoE aura (so far, 2ndary powerset of Death Shroud and Blazing Aura) in the armour Damage Aura power because at least in those 2 specific powers, it can proc multiple times? 

[Bopper]

5 minutes ago, Obus Form said:

Do you mean, it's best suited for AoE aura (so far, 2ndary powerset of Death Shroud and Blazing Aura) in the armour Damage Aura power because at least in those 2 specific powers, it can proc multiple times? 

My lame answer is "it depends". Yes, it procs multiple times, but it lasts for 2 seconds. So ultimately, youd be living with 3 stacks typically and an occasional 4th and 5th stack for 2 seconds out of every 10.  Or, if you have an attack that you use every 3-5 seconds, and possibly has a great proc rate (90% would be ideal), you can get up to a consistent 5 stacks. 

 

So the "it depends" comes down to whether or not you have an attack you use that often that has room to take the proc, versus having it in an aura and it runs all the time.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Bopper

[macskull]

6 hours ago, Obus Form said:

I haven’t tested the +7 Fury because I don’t know where to see that “buff” in Combat Attributes?  If anyone knows, let me know and I'll happily test it out.

You can't see Fury in combat attributes directly but you can monitor your damage bonus. Fury grants 2% damage bonus per point of Fury, and if you're looking through your combat logs it'll be in the "healing delivered" channel when it actually procs.

[roleki]

12 hours ago, macskull said:

You can't see Fury in combat attributes directly but you can monitor your damage bonus. Fury grants 2% damage bonus per point of Fury, and if you're looking through your combat logs it'll be in the "healing delivered" channel when it actually procs.

Track the general attribute "Inherent" and that's your Fury. 

 

I'll do more testing tonight, see if I can track what was described above on my dudes.

[Coyote]

On 2/20/2020 at 11:26 PM, macskull said:

In the case he's talking about (where he's got a power that does -res that also has some damage procs slotted in it) the -res from the power is applied at the exact same time as the damage procs so those procs won't be affected by the -res, but any subsequent damage will.

 

Just to note, while that's true with -Res applied by the power because procs usually proc immediately, there are some powers that apply damage after a delay, that would apply the -Res from their own IOs to their own damage. For example, Call Ravens and Unkindness both apply damage after a short time, but if you slot -Res IOs in them like Achilles Heel, the proc fires instantly. So you actually boost the power's own damage with the proc.

[Chance Jackson]

On 2/20/2020 at 11:26 PM, macskull said:

In the case he's talking about (where he's got a power that does -res that also has some damage procs slotted in it) the -res from the power is applied at the exact same time as the damage procs so those procs won't be affected by the -res, but any subsequent damage will.

ok got it