Difficulty in CoH: Community Discussion

[Dazl]

Maybe all we really need is a new zone for incarnate characters, with story arcs, door missions and higher level mobs. We don't need to mess with the current game, just have a place to provide a bigger challenge and rewards to those who want it.

[Lines]

6 minutes ago, Crimsonpyre said:

Maybe all we really need is a new zone for incarnate characters, with story arcs, door missions and higher level mobs. We don't need to mess with the current game, just have a place to provide a bigger challenge and rewards to those who want it.

 

You mean like Dark Astoria?

[Heraclea]

8 minutes ago, Lines said:

 

You mean like Dark Astoria?

I don't know what kind of content creation tools the HC team has, but another such zone might be a good idea.  Maybe make something like Storm Palace accessible to people with any travel power. 

 

Just for the love of God don't use IDF, Resistance Elite, or Neuron/Antimatter Clockwork in it.  Arachnos and Longbow now have serious competition for mobs I'm tired of seeing.

[Solarverse]

3 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

The comment about people being able to solo max difficulty and then teaming is one that does concern me. At that point players can inadvertently encroach on the fun of others by denying them opportunity to contribute as they normally would.

 

However, a good thing I've found with this is when the power level allows you to have teams split up scooby doo style in a mission.  The full team of 8 sticking together is a force to reckon with in most content, but if the team has to split up for whatever reason it becomes a lot more strategic. Theres a glowy guarded by enemies that see through stealth, and a boss fight at different sides of the map. They have to be dealt with within a similar time of each other / there is a strict time limit on the mission / some other factor that makes sticking together nigh impossible. More things like that would be fun and help curb some of the steamroll.

The problem with this, is that you are trying to introduce something that the game once had, but removed. For example, the Cavern Trials...you don't even have to click the obelisks at the same time anymore. Apparently it was "too hard" so it was changed to be done one at a time. I get people like you and I prefer a game that isn't just button mashing no brainers, we appreciate the game in the way that it once was. However, I believe that those days are long gone, and the game has attracted a new breed of players who don't appreciate the game the way it was, they like the game for what it has become. Challenge today with people is not about strategically working together to accomplish a difficult task, it seems to me that players would rather works strategically in order to see just how quickly they can complete the content. Speed runs are the big deal, where once just being able to keep the team alive was the major accomplishment. The game has changed way too much for what you and I would want, and trying to make it this way again clearly goes against the grain of what the majority wants. This is why I gave up the fight. I am overruled by superior numbers.

 

Long story short: When the game came out, it attracted player who appreciated challenge, not just at the end game level, but also all through the leveling experience. Over the years, the difficulty of the game has been modified to appeal to players who want to feel powerful, so these players grew in numbers as word spread. Sadly, we are outnumbered in our way of thinking. The game is easy. I accept that.

 

If anyone ever makes a server that resembles the difficulty level of Vanilla CoH, then I will go to that server. I know better than to try and change this server or even try and get people to view things as I do, it is always met with opposition and resistance...people simply like the game as it is and any change to make it more difficult will only result in backlash. So I stopped, accepted it as is and now I leave it alone. The game is easy...I accept that. I just wish when the game was difficult, players would accept it as it was instead of constantly pushing to make the game easier. When it was difficult, I liked it as it was too. I enjoyed the game as is. I never wanted nor asked for the game to be easy. To me, this is no longer City of Heroes. The game is not even the same anymore. This is now Casual of Heroes now...City of Heroes died after issue 5.

 

And before anyone bashes me for my opinion, just remember, it's just my opinion. I can no more change your mind than you can mine.

[Lines]

6 minutes ago, Heraclea said:

I don't know what kind of content creation tools the HC team has, but another such zone might be a good idea.  Maybe make something like Storm Palace accessible to people with any travel power. 

 

Just for the love of God don't use IDF, Resistance Elite, or Neuron/Antimatter Clockwork in it.  Arachnos and Longbow now have serious competition for mobs I'm tired of seeing.

I absolutely agree.

 

There are a few existing zones that could become a lot more incarnate focused, such as the shadow shards. I'm also wondering about Crey's Folly. Does anything even happen there? It's an awesome looking zone where nothing happens.

[Galaxy Brain]

@Heraclea, @Lines,

 

Kill 2 birds with 1 stone? Revamp Hazard Zones into actual **HAZARD ZONES** that are truly dangerous and even Incarnate level?

 

Make them have villainous equivalents too of course.

[Solarverse]

10 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

@Heraclea, @Lines,

 

Kill 2 birds with 1 stone? Revamp Hazard Zones into actual **HAZARD ZONES** that are truly dangerous and even Incarnate level?

 

Make them have villainous equivalents too of course.

Can you imagine running Frostfire as an Incarnate level AV? How about Atta?  Make the whole zone an Incarnate level zone...I'm game for that. It would feel like it did when we were lowbies in the old days and people were actually scared to go through the Hollows without Hover.

[Fusea]

I would personally kind of like to see the game have more difficulty at the top end.  I have no idea if any of these ideas can be implemented, but here are some quick ideas I had while reading parts of the thread.  Add a selection to the slider for the lovely bit of ultra violence and set that up so you HAVE to have a semi balanced team and a plan.  Not everyone wants to have holy trinity tank/heal/dps, but no one can accuse that of being 'too easy'.  From there, you can tailor things more specifically to get the experience people are asking for.  People think Tanks aren't being used enough?  Change the mobs so they have to be taunted or they scatter and aggro other mobs, or their damage goes up when they aren't close together.  Not enough healers?  Bosses do a flat 90% damage when they hit, but they only hit like that every few seconds.

[Redlynne]

13 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

Busybodies wanting to nerf everyone and ruin people’s fun. 

Yeah ... about that ...

 

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, Redlynne said:

Yeah ... about that ...

 

  

12 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

My initial comment says everything that needs to be said on the matter. I won’t be explaining further. 

 

[ShardWarrior]

13 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

So, we should buff everything instead? What about those two poster's fun?

That is not was suggested.  If people are finding the game to be too easy for them, there are any number of ways to get around it.

[Galaxy Brain]

1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said:

That is not was suggested.  If people are finding the game to be too easy for them, there are any number of ways to get around it.

Its essentially what is being suggested with the response to how nerfing everything is what certain people want. The opposite of that would be to buff everything and ignore what the "other" players think is fun.

[ShardWarrior]

52 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

@Heraclea, @Lines,

 

Kill 2 birds with 1 stone? Revamp Hazard Zones into actual **HAZARD ZONES** that are truly dangerous and even Incarnate level?

 

Make them have villainous equivalents too of course.

Why would you want to make Perez Park, Hollows, Boomtown, Faultline etc. all have Incarnate level threats?  If you want a hazard zone, then make new ones specifically designed for incarnates.

[ShardWarrior]

2 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Its essentially what is being suggested with the response to how nerfing everything is what certain people want. The opposite of that would be to buff everything and ignore what the "other" players think is fun.

I do not see where anyone specifically said "buff everything" in the thread. 

[MunkiLord]

Just now, ShardWarrior said:

Why would you want to make Perez Park, Hollows, Boomtown, Faultline etc. all have Incarnate level threats?  If you want a hazard zone, then make new ones specifically designed for incarnates.

I think Boomtown could be a good candidate as very little story content is created is based there. Perez is attached to Atlas, so I don’t think that’s a good option. 

[Lines]

1 minute ago, MunkiLord said:

I think Boomtown could be a good candidate as very little story content is created is based there. Perez is attached to Atlas, so I don’t think that’s a good option. 

Not to mention with the War Walker, there kinda already is post-Praetorian invasion content there. It's a good staging ground for another Dark Astoria.

 

We have incarnate level Tsoo and Family that could get in on the action too, plus endgame level clockwork and council. There's real scope for the plot of Paragon City to develop there.

[Galaxy Brain]

Just now, ShardWarrior said:

Why would you want to make Perez Park, Hollows, Boomtown, Faultline etc. all have Incarnate level threats?  If you want a hazard zone, then make new ones specifically designed for incarnates.

Easy, we can have instanced versions of these that when you reach X point you can choose between (Normal Hollows vs Incarnate Hollows). It doesnt have to be every zone as @MunkiLord mentioned, but for the return on investment we get to recycle unused zones instead of having to make whole new ones which would def take longer

[ShardWarrior]

1 minute ago, MunkiLord said:

I think Boomtown could be a good candidate as very little story content is created is based there. Perez is attached to Atlas, so I don’t think that’s a good option. 

Agreed there is not much in the way of story content, however it was meant as a lower level hazard zone.  I would prefer it to stay as such with a freshening up of story content built with IOs in mind.  At least to me, creating more for Incarnates is something that the Homecoming staff could really make their mark on.  I am with @Heraclea on this in that the IDF, Resistance Elite and Clockwork are played out.  I would love to see something new made with pimped out Incarnates in mind.

[MrNotorion]

If I were to complain (and I don't have much reason to) it would be that the game has TOO MANY LAYERS.  People forget how much has been tacked onto this game from where it started, some good, some bad, but it's all rather piecemeal and... cluttered.

[ShardWarrior]

Just now, Galaxy Brain said:

Easy, we can have instanced versions of these that when you reach X point you can choose between (Normal Hollows vs Incarnate Hollows). It doesnt have to be every zone as @MunkiLord mentioned, but for the return on investment we get to recycle unused zones instead of having to make whole new ones which would def take longer

I would prefer the wait to get something rather than a slapped together solution just to appease a select few.

[Solarverse]

8 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Why would you want to make Perez Park, Hollows, Boomtown, Faultline etc. all have Incarnate level threats?  If you want a hazard zone, then make new ones specifically designed for incarnates.

Because at one time, those zones were difficult. It was players who wanted things easy who got it changed in the first place. Why do new ones have to be created when the zones already listed as "Hazard zones" can actually be made a hazard zone?

[MunkiLord]

Just now, ShardWarrior said:

Agreed there is not much in the way of story content, however it was meant as a lower level hazard zone.  I would prefer it to stay as such with a freshening up of story content built with IOs in mind.  At least to me, creating more for Incarnates is something that the Homecoming staff could really make their mark on.  I am with @Heraclea on this in that the IDF, Resistance Elite and Clockwork are played out.  I would love to see something new made with pimped out Incarnates in mind.

I don't disagree at all. If Boomtown is going to be used for new lower levelcontent, like Faultline, I'm all for it. I just backed that one as I assume it's one of the least used and taking over an existing zone seems like it would be easier than making a new one, assuming of course the map stays the same. Just because I'm old and remember street sweeping there, I'd probably prefer Crey's Folly be used over Boomtown.

[Redlynne]

29 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

My initial comment says everything that needs to be said on the matter. I won’t be explaining further. 

A closed mind is a terrible thing to celebrate ...

... particularly in a problem solving context.

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Kill 2 birds with 1 stone? Revamp Hazard Zones into actual **HAZARD ZONES** that are truly dangerous and even Incarnate level?

What do you call New Dark Astoria ... if not a Hazard Zone that got revamped into a truly dangerous Incarnate level HAZARD ZONE?

 

My point being, that wish has already been granted ... by the devs at Cryptic Studios no less.

And just look where it has gotten you ...

 

 

[ShardWarrior]

12 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

I don't disagree at all. If Boomtown is going to be used for new lower levelcontent, like Faultline, I'm all for it. I just backed that one as I assume it's one of the least used and taking over an existing zone seems like it would be easier than making a new one, assuming of course the map stays the same. Just because I'm old and remember street sweeping there, I'd probably prefer Crey's Folly be used over Boomtown.

You know what might be interesting is to re-purpose the old Galaxy City map.  It is for all intents and purposes unused.  Some incarnate level Shivans would sort of work story wise. 

[Galaxy Brain]

3 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

You know what might be interesting is to re-purpose the old Galaxy City map.  It is for all intents and purposes unused.  Some incarnate level Shivans would sort of work story wise. 

You know thatd be cool to revisit those Shivan's from the tutorial. Iirc those specific ones dont show up again?

Edited March 30, 2020 by Galaxy Brain