Electrical Affinity "seizure" animations on allies

[ROBOKiTTY]

I'm in support of a general option to disable having your animation set by external buffs. It's a common enough phenomenon where people would drive-by buff a group of people. Most of the time, this is harmless and done without any ill intent. However, buff animations disrupt emotes and often force your character into a combat stance, which is disruptive for social gatherings or people roleplaying. While visible effects can be unwanted in some scenarios, forced animations are a lot more intrusive.

 

On the anniversary of the game's shutdown, people were holding torches in Atlas Park. GMs had to ask people to turn off stealth auras and refrain from disruptive buffs. A lot of people like buffing people to be friendly, and as mentioned, the vast majority of the time, this is not a bad thing and is often an appreciated gesture. It's a part of the game's culture, So making it an opt-out option seems to be the best solution, as opposed to losing one's temper and yelling at the Nth person to freshly arrive in the zone and buff people without realizing what's going on.

 

It'd be even better if this option could go into the game's actual option menu and as a slash command, so it could be toggled a lot more easily.

[ArchVileTerror]

*insert standing ovation GIF here for ROBOKiTTY*

[ShardWarrior]

4 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

Why? You ARE being electrocuted by an ally. If someone jolts you with electricity you are just going to stay there and not have any physical reaction? 

How many of your allies are walking around jolting you with a stun gun to electrocute you?  Never once did I say that there should be no animation at all.  I agreed that the animation chosen is a poor one for a buff set.  To me, it breaks the immersion to have an ally cast a buff on me that makes me look like my character is in pain.  There are any number of animations that would have been more suitable in my opinion.  These are my own personal preferences, which is why I suggested providing players an option to disable them.  Those who like it can keep it and those who do not can choose to not see it. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by ShardWarrior

[Solarverse]

2 hours ago, ROBOKiTTY said:

I'm in support of a general option to disable having your animation set by external buffs. It's a common enough phenomenon where people would drive-by buff a group of people. Most of the time, this is harmless and done without any ill intent. However, buff animations disrupt emotes and often force your character into a combat stance, which is disruptive for social gatherings or people roleplaying. While visible effects can be unwanted in some scenarios, forced animations are a lot more intrusive.

 

On the anniversary of the game's shutdown, people were holding torches in Atlas Park. GMs had to ask people to turn off stealth auras and refrain from disruptive buffs. A lot of people like buffing people to be friendly, and as mentioned, the vast majority of the time, this is not a bad thing and is often an appreciated gesture. It's a part of the game's culture, So making it an opt-out option seems to be the best solution, as opposed to losing one's temper and yelling at the Nth person to freshly arrive in the zone and buff people without realizing what's going on.

 

It'd be even better if this option could go into the game's actual option menu and as a slash command, so it could be toggled a lot more easily.

/end thread

 

Nothing really more needs to be said here. Very nice post, @ROBOKiTTY

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

44 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

How many of your allies are walking around jolting you with a stun gun to electrocute you?  Never once did I say that there should be no animation at all.  I agreed that the animation chosen is a poor one for a buff set.  To me, it breaks the immersion to have an ally cast a buff on me that makes me look like my character is in pain.  There are any number of animations that would have been more suitable in my opinion.  These are my own personal preferences, which is why I suggested providing players an option to disable them.  Those who like it can keep it and those who do not can choose to not see it. 

Yet you and those taking your position have yet to explain why this is such a greater issue then many, and I mean many long standing aspects of this game that are at least to my pov far more disturbing to the average person. Nazi, burning people alive, death cults and human sacrifice. Hell seeing the animals in beast mastery die is frankly to me far far far more disturbing then this animation your so riled up about.

 

The only semi valid position Ive seen is simply disliking players being able to force an animation upon them during social RP. However at least the kind of RPers I hang with will more like in general appreciate it as an RP emote tool rather then something to be disturbed by.

 

I mean seriously what do you think is more  common, an animal lover being disturbed by seeing animals die, or someone who has actually undergone shock therapy being bothered by a brief animation most are likely to never even notice in the flurry of combat.

[Naraka]

Lol no one answered my questions.

 

Why is it okay to electrocute the Christ out of foes but apparently it's crossing a line for a similar animation for player characters?  Mind you, player characters will writhe from electrical attacks if they get mezzed by a foe with electric powers.

[ArchVileTerror]

Generally, Naraka, it's my understanding that it comes down to context, situational expectations, and the perceived risk of griefing.

A player can "psyche themself up" before going up against an enemy which they know has interactions or content which they find distressing or personally harmful (or simply avoid that enemy all together in some cases) and still have the opportunity to play the game.

However, should a fellow player be able to perform a "drive-by buffing" with absolutely no warning or contextual clues, it can be rather upsetting.  Particularly since there are players out there who strongly empathize with their character, and a loss of agency for the character translates to a loss of self-empowerment for the player.

 

Short version:  Not everyone's the same, and some people are more sensitive to crap they find harmful than other players.

[Monos King]

Don't get involved Don't get involved Don't get involved Don't get involved 

[AlienMafia]

Shock animation has been in the game well over a decade.

[Outrider_01]

I am gonna start with something.  Null the Gull is crutch excuse for a request to solve almost everything.  That's just my opinion, I just tired of everyone thinking that the Bird (is the word) can fix knockback to animations on allies; looking at the buff block options it can only stop incoming buffs from others and not out going powers with secondary effects/animations.  I am no expert at coding, but to stop an animation playing on an ally would require a lot more code effort resulting in other things not being looked at.  .

 

Now, aside from my rant there might be an easier fix.

1. Remove any pause effect from the animation, SB/AM/bubbles ect just add auras to allies. 
2. Swap the animated effects to one of the Electric armor effects.

No seizures, believe I have it.  Lose about 20 minutes of my life every time it triggers.

[ShardWarrior]

9 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Yet you and those taking your position have yet to explain why this is such a greater issue then many, and I mean many long standing aspects of this game that are at least to my pov far more disturbing to the average person. Nazi, burning people alive, death cults and human sacrifice. Hell seeing the animals in beast mastery die is frankly to me far far far more disturbing then this animation your so riled up about.

 

The only semi valid position Ive seen is simply disliking players being able to force an animation upon them during social RP. However at least the kind of RPers I hang with will more like in general appreciate it as an RP emote tool rather then something to be disturbed by.

 

I mean seriously what do you think is more  common, an animal lover being disturbed by seeing animals die, or someone who has actually undergone shock therapy being bothered by a brief animation most are likely to never even notice in the flurry of combat.

Now you are trying to put words in my mouth.  I am not nor was I ever equating the animation to Nazis or seeing animals die as cruel or anything of the sort, nor was I suggesting it is of greater or lesser importance.  I simply do not feel the selected animation fits for what is supposed to be an allied buff.  To me, there are far better choices out there to choose from other than the animation looking like you were hit by a stun gun from an ally.  Unless you were on Jackass or something, I would not expect to be electrocuted by a friend/ally. 

 

I have no idea how difficult it is to change the animation in terms of code.  All I am suggesting is to perhaps choose a better one that fits the idea of a buff better.

Edited April 2, 2020 by ShardWarrior

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said:

Now you are trying to put words in my mouth.  I am not nor was I ever equating the animation to Nazis or seeing animals die as cruel or anything of the sort, nor was I suggesting it is of greater or lesser importance.  I simply do not feel the selected animation fits for what is supposed to be an allied buff.  To me, there are far better choices out there to choose from other than the animation looking like you were hit by a stun gun from an ally.  Unless you were on Jackass or something, I would not expect to be electrocuted by a friend/ally. 

 

I have no idea how difficult it is to change the animation in terms of code.  All I am suggesting is to perhaps choose a better one that fits the idea of a buff better.

No I am the one pointing out that the nazi imagery and constantly seeing animals die and the mournful howl of a wolf which is actually very disturbing to me, someone who has raised a beloved wolf dog hybrid and even years after her death find anything related to wolves being killed very emotionally distressing. That howl played constantly is not a noise wolves make when happy. I actually had a close relative who has suffered an ice pick lobotomy and underwent shock treatment as well. Yet I find this animation in question a non issue as its barely ever noticed.

 

The idea because its a buff it cant have an animation that is thematically appropriate seems a very weak point to be frank. We after all have had since launch powers that inflict visual effects on us. I for one on my mortal man batman homage utterly loathe any and all buff visuals that make me look like I am on fire or glowing like a night light. Yet those are ok to be forced upon us all these years why?

 

I am not for a single power being changed due to this point of yours, Id only agree with a null option that would disable every single buff visual effect at once from allies on my characters.

[ShardWarrior]

11 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

No I am the one pointing out that the nazi imagery and constantly seeing animals die and the mournful howl of a wolf which is actually very disturbing to me, someone who has raised a beloved wolf dog hybrid and even years after her death find anything related to wolves being killed very emotionally distressing. That howl played constantly is not a noise wolves make when happy. I actually had a close relative who has suffered an ice pick lobotomy and underwent shock treatment as well. Yet I find this animation in question a non issue as its barely ever noticed.

 

The idea because its a buff it cant have an animation that is thematically appropriate seems a very weak point to be frank. We after all have had since launch powers that inflict visual effects on us. I for one on my mortal man batman homage utterly loathe any and all buff visuals that make me look like I am on fire or glowing like a night light. Yet those are ok to be forced upon us all these years why?

 

I am not for a single power being changed due to this point of yours, Id only agree with a null option that would disable every single buff visual effect at once from allies on my characters.

Again, you are putting words in my mouth and trying to interject something into my post that is not there.  I never said the animation caused me distress of any kind.  I just do not feel it fits for an allied buff - that is all.  Think of it as having a power called "heal" that uses a spinning kick cartwheel animation to strike the ally in the face and knock them unconscious - the animation does not really fit.  The animation used here makes sense thematically against an enemy target because you are trying to subdue them.  To me, it does not fit as a buff for an ally.  Feel free to disagree.

[ZacKing]

18 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

No I am the one pointing out that the nazi imagery and constantly seeing animals die and the mournful howl of a wolf which is actually very disturbing to me, someone who has raised a beloved wolf dog hybrid and even years after her death find anything related to wolves being killed very emotionally distressing. That howl played constantly is not a noise wolves make when happy. I actually had a close relative who has suffered an ice pick lobotomy and underwent shock treatment as well. Yet I find this animation in question a non issue as its barely ever noticed.

Always love the "I have a sandwich, so you can't be hungry" excuse.  using the same animation for ally and enemy was a stupid, lazy choice.  One should look like a friendly buff, the other an attack.

[SwitchFade]

On 3/31/2020 at 4:22 PM, Keen said:

Please consider options to avoid allies getting the "writhing in pain" animation when affected by Electrical Affinity buffs. Suggestion:

 

• Create a Null the Gull setting to "prevent ally buffs from changing your animation"
  • Could apply to everything (like Kinetics powers)
  • (Additionally) Another Null the Gull setting to "prevent your buffs to change animations on allies" for when the caster does not want to cause that effect on others

 

Motivation

 

The set was once named "Shock Therapy" in Beta. Now renamed, but some powers currently cause allies to play animations that can cause mental triggers. Having a power that literally makes allies seize up doesn't actually fix what the rename was intended to do.

 

If you are sensitive to the concerns of people about Shock Therapy as a name, please reconsider having powers that literally cause visible seizures. Thank you.

 

Changing the animation for the reason you espouse: no vote.

 

Changing the animation because it's confusing and I think I'm being held by a freakshow stunner? Yes vote.

 

You went about this wrong, homeskillet. You should have argued the case from the standpoint that the animation is shared with an effect that NPCs cast on players that tells them they are being held.

 

I yes vote it to help is not think we're being held. That said, this is like, priority 999 out of 1,000.

 

No vote on changing it cuz... Other reasons. It's a game.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

2 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Again, you are putting words in my mouth and trying to interject something into my post that is not there.  I never said the animation caused me distress of any kind.  I just do not feel it fits for an allied buff - that is all.  Think of it as having a power called "heal" that uses a spinning kick cartwheel animation to strike the ally in the face and knock them unconscious - the animation does not really fit.  The animation used here makes sense thematically against an enemy target because you are trying to subdue them.  To me, it does not fit as a buff for an ally.  Feel free to disagree.

Funny you should say that. I can think of a few MMO that actually do attach ally buffs and even heals as effects triggered by attack chains. In Vangaurd a saga of heroes there was a monk like class that had to be using its martial art style attack comboes on enemies to heal and buff allies in range. Over on DDO monks can trigger a healing effect on allies as part of their martial finishers. In both cases these abilities where not obvious to allies. Once simply had to learn to stay close to such characters at all times.

 

And I am not putting words in your mouth, the OP and the faction your on the side ofs main point is it can cause a trigger event to those sensitive about the topic of shock therapy. Because the it makes me look held QQ is even less of an issue. because as has been pointed out in combat it is instantly dismissed during movement and attack animations. Hell who even looks at their character during play? I am too busy watching my teams health bars, their location icons on the mini map, and my powers cool downs. Not to mention when on teams I am usually so lit up by ally buffs my character isnt even visible.

 

Nor do I feel just because its a buff an ability or animation has to look a certain way. Id find a ray gun that healed for example fun and fine. Or a healing grenade which I have seen in games over the years.

[Naraka]

10 hours ago, ArchVileTerror said:

Generally, Naraka, it's my understanding that it comes down to context, situational expectations, and the perceived risk of griefing.

A player can "psyche themself up" before going up against an enemy which they know has interactions or content which they find distressing or personally harmful (or simply avoid that enemy all together in some cases) and still have the opportunity to play the game.

However, should a fellow player be able to perform a "drive-by buffing" with absolutely no warning or contextual clues, it can be rather upsetting.  Particularly since there are players out there who strongly empathize with their character, and a loss of agency for the character translates to a loss of self-empowerment for the player.

 

Short version:  Not everyone's the same, and some people are more sensitive to crap they find harmful than other players.

That sounds like a conjured answer you more or less assumed without experience of the circumstance.  It sounds rational on paper but still ignores why seeing it on others is okay (those others being foes).  As for psyching yourselves up, is that not a more personal issue that likely could be addressed by having someone with modding knowledge go in and swap that particular animation for something else?  Then you won't have to worry about seeing the seizure animation on foes, on allies or on yourself.

 

As far as drive-by buffing, I can only assume is really prevalent in open spaces or high traffic areas.  If you can turn on a switch to psyche yourself up, why not do that in areas where such is drive-by buffing is likely to occur.  That and just stand around in not-so-occupied areas when you don't want such effects.  

 

As far as risk of griefing, I could only assume it's the same feeling I'd get from someone using the throw snowball power on me or the smack emote.  It's annoying a bit but one can reflect on the context of the situation on a personal level and try to understand it's only an animation and the person is likely only being playful and isn't actually harming you.  I could make a thread requesting a null the gull option to opt into the snowball impact animation because it causes me to feel certain ways or I can just have a discussion with some people about it, get how they feel and maybe get insight and more context as I create my own means of coping with the effect.

 

I am not equating the snowball impact power to anyone else's trauma, merely trying to find some other avenue to relate since I won't be able to without further discussion of what they go through and feel.

 

2 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Again, you are putting words in my mouth and trying to interject something into my post that is not there.  I never said the animation caused me distress of any kind.  I just do not feel it fits for an allied buff - that is all.  Think of it as having a power called "heal" that uses a spinning kick cartwheel animation to strike the ally in the face and knock them unconscious - the animation does not really fit.  The animation used here makes sense thematically against an enemy target because you are trying to subdue them.  To me, it does not fit as a buff for an ally.  Feel free to disagree.

That doesn't sound like the animation is wrong.  It sounds like the name is wrong.  It should be "Heel".  The effects reflect the animation and effects.

 

Also, which Electric Affinity powers cause the target to convulse?  Is the the +rech buff?  If so, then it kind of does make sense as it's causing a person to react more twitchy.  The portion of twitch here is the "sudden" part which is the only way the set would be able to buff recharge at all.

[Naraka]

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

You should have argued the case from the standpoint that the animation is shared with an effect that NPCs cast on players that tells them they are being held.

There is no rule that says an animation can't have dual purposes.

 

For the players confused about being held, being held comes with visual FX that tell you you are held like a *HUGE CAGE OF ELECTRICITY* and NPCs use that for hold and sleep.

[ZacKing]

11 minutes ago, Naraka said:

That doesn't sound like the animation is wrong.  It sounds like the name is wrong.  It should be "Heel". 

Don't be obtuse.

[SwitchFade]

10 minutes ago, Naraka said:

There is no rule that says an animation can't have dual purposes.

 

For the players confused about being held, being held comes with visual FX that tell you you are held like a *HUGE CAGE OF ELECTRICITY* and NPCs use that for hold and sleep.

No one mentioned any rule...

 

I gave him a suggestion on how to more effectively make a case for change and convince his audience.

Edited April 2, 2020 by SwitchFade

[ShardWarrior]

14 minutes ago, Naraka said:

That doesn't sound like the animation is wrong.  It sounds like the name is wrong.  It should be "Heel".  The effects reflect the animation and effects.

Ok, let me clarify since it is abundantly clear the point was missed - in a buffing set there is a power named "Heal"  - as in add hit points to an allied target  -  that uses a spinning kick to the face animation.  It does not fit.  At this point, if all you would like to do is argue semantics, I think it best to agree to disagree. 

10 minutes ago, Naraka said:

For the players confused about being held, being held comes with visual FX that tell you you are held like a *HUGE CAGE OF ELECTRICITY* and NPCs use that for hold and sleep.

Not all electrical attacks from NPCs have a huge cage of electricity.

[Naraka]

9 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Don't be obtuse.

How was that obtuse?  I took their example and described what I didn't agree with it and why.

 

6 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Ok, let me clarify since it is abundantly clear the point was missed - in a buffing set there is a power named "Heal"  - as in add hit points to an allied target  -  that uses a spinning kick to the face animation.  It does not fit.  At this point, if all you would like to do is argue semantics, I think it best to agree to disagree. 

Not all electrical attacks from NPCs have a huge cage of electricity.

Well I didn't miss the point, you just made a bad example because you specifically stated the power does a spinning kick and knocks an ally unconscious as the effect.  Both of those adhere to each other.  You just tried to make the claim, since it's in a buffing set and it's a kicking attack, that it doesn't fit...which is incorrect.

 

As for your new example, a kicking HP recovery tool, while unorthodox, can be a good concept for a melee support AT.  It's not that it "does not fit", just unorthodox (one might even say bizarre).  Having a shocking power that buffs you can fit, you just choose to not want it to.

 

Also, which electrical attacks from NPCs that hold you don't have an electric cage?  I can namely only think of Electric Shackles which comes with an electric circle and chains of electricity on your arms and feet.

[ZacKing]

5 minutes ago, Naraka said:

How was that obtuse?  I took their example and described what I didn't agree with it and why.

No, you're being obtuse. it's pretty simple to understand what was said, you just decided to be obtuse about it.  But you go right on doing that.  It's clear you're just trolling.

[ShardWarrior]

9 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Well I didn't miss the point, you just made a bad example because you specifically stated the power does a spinning kick and knocks an ally unconscious as the effect.  Both of those adhere to each other.  You just tried to make the claim, since it's in a buffing set and it's a kicking attack, that it doesn't fit...which is incorrect.

 

As for your new example, a kicking HP recovery tool, while unorthodox, can be a good concept for a melee support AT.  It's not that it "does not fit", just unorthodox (one might even say bizarre).  Having a shocking power that buffs you can fit, you just choose to not want it to.

Ok so it is more than apparent you are just trolling at this point.  Good day to you.

[Naraka]

Just now, ZacKing said:

No, you're being obtuse. it's pretty simple to understand what was said, you just decided to be obtuse about it.  But you go right on doing that.  It's clear you're just trolling.

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.

 

As for being obtuse, I described what I didn't agree with about his example and why I didn't.  I could went further and simply said your example is flawed but I figured that was implied.  Being obtuse would mean I'm trying not to understand him which is obviously false since I am actively replying and clarifying my position.  If I were being obtuse, more people would be saying I'm being insensitive or some such.

 

2 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Ok so it is more than apparent you are just trolling at this point.  Good day to you.

Um, okay.

 

Funnily enough, my perspective hasn't changed.  My villain has no issue causing allies to convulse on command.  It's not unfitting at all but that has been completely ignored among all the discussion.