Discussion: Disabling XP No Longer Increases Influence

[Galaxy Brain]

[AngelKofsky]

7 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

Fighting a +4 mob at 49 vs 53s is the same as fighting a +4 mob at 50 vs 54.

Then there's really no reason for you to get more than double influence for it with patrol xp

 

7 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

Play options are NOT exploits. 

Nope, but you can exploit elements of them that don't work as intended, as this was not intended for people to used to solo farm lvl 49 missions with patrol xp giving a never-depleting bonus so that they can farm influence while not playing with the lower level chars and content (what the exemp system is for) That is 100% an exploit. 

Now, seriously I keep addressing you, and you keep replying but not answering my question about Elec affinity.

Edited April 1, 2020 by AngelKofsky

[DMW45]

18 minutes ago, AngelKofsky said:

(because it was being exploited)

Yeah, that's dumb.  Using something as it was meant to be used is not exploiting it.

 

The interaction with Patrol XP was the exploit.

 

By that logic, we may as well remove patrol xp, it was being exploited.

Edited April 1, 2020 by DMW45

[AngelKofsky]

5 minutes ago, DMW45 said:

Using something as it was meant to be used 

 

Wasn't meant to be used to solo farm lvl 49 missions

[DMW45]

1 minute ago, AngelKofsky said:

Wasn't meant to be used to solo farm lvl 49 missions

It was meant to be used to get double influence and no experience when exemplaring.

 

It was used to get double influence and no experience when exemplaring.

[Crysis]

11 minutes ago, DMW45 said:

Yeah, that's dumb.  Using something as it was meant to be used is not exploiting it.

 

The interaction with Patrol XP was the exploit.

 

By that logic, we may as well remove patrol xp, it was being exploited.

Honestly I don’t even remember the reason for Patrol XP.  I mean it’s the very example

of “AFK farming” that seems to be the issue that prompted this latest nerf.

[Crysis]

5 minutes ago, AngelKofsky said:

Wasn't meant to be used to solo farm lvl 49 missions

I know of no way to have turned it off, so while it had that side benefit it wasn’t something you could just choose to NOT do, even if there was a mechanism to allow you to DO it.

[DMW45]

Straight up they're trying to tell me that simply 'using' the mechanic is somehow 'abusing' it.

[AngelKofsky]

Just now, Crysis said:

I know of no way to have turned it off, so while it had that side benefit it wasn’t something you could just choose to NOT do, even if there was a mechanism to allow you to DO it.

You literally have to turn it on. There was an option in the menu where you disabled xp while exemplared to gain double inf, then a second option to disable xp you had to turn on so that you didn't gain xp and kept your patrol xp from depleting. You not only could choose not to do it, you had to choose TO do it.

[AngelKofsky]

8 minutes ago, DMW45 said:

It was meant to be used to get double influence and no experience when exemplaring.

Exemplar system, intended and implemented in legacy to encourage higher level players to play lower level content and with lower level players

 

9 minutes ago, DMW45 said:

It was used to get double influence and no experience when exemplaring.

and further combined with an exploit in how patrol XP works

 

5 minutes ago, DMW45 said:

Straight up they're trying to tell me that simply 'using' the mechanic is somehow 'abusing' it.

No one told you that, you are being obstinate and ignoring the parts of what were said that are inconvenient to what you want to be correct.

Have a nice day.

[Ironblade]

15 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

Just a reminder that farming isn't the only thing minting top hats and monocles, and that if they want to curb the impression that regular play isn't enough, they'll probably have to look at that source of wealth-accumulation, too. 

I think the real problem here is that the impression that regular play isn't enough is a FALSE impression.  They (and we) need to communicate the fact that you don't need to farm.  You don't need to marketeer.  You CAN, but you don't NEED to do any of these things.  Well, unless you want to constantly PL characters to 50 and then purple them out.  Yeah, then you need to generate more money.  But that's hardly typical play.

 

Back at shutdown, I had 57 billion inf and had to maintain a spreadsheet to see which characters had room to hold more.  I didn't farm.  I marketeered a bit and farmed PvP recipes.

Fast forward to today and I'm IO'ing my characters more easily with ZERO farming or marketeering (so far).  I kind of miss having mountains of cash but, proven by the fact my money only went up and up, it was obviously more than I ever needed.

[Crysis]

10 minutes ago, AngelKofsky said:

You literally have to turn it on. There was an option in the menu where you disabled xp while exemplared to gain double inf, then a second option to disable xp you had to turn on so that you didn't gain xp and kept your patrol xp from depleting. You not only could choose not to do it, you had to choose TO do it.

No you misunderstand.  Toggling features were just that...FEATURES.

 

Thats like telling me Superspeed is an exploit for Sprint.

 

The exploit didn’t happen just because of those toggles.  You could flip them on/off all day and still only receive XP/Influence as INTENDED by the game mechanics.

 

You only received the BONUS to “double influence” if you had “Patrol XP” running.  And if you did have Patrol XP running I know/knew of no way to TURN THAT OFF.  
 

The Devs already explained this earlier in thread.  The issue was a non-addressable Patrol XP feature.  
 

So your accusations are not only entirely baseless but flat out wrong.

 

Here, read how Patrol XP works yourself.  You can’t even consume it in AE missions....

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Patrol_Experience

Edited April 1, 2020 by Crysis

[Ironblade]

13 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

Everyone cannot marketeer. when someone buys at a low price and sells it at a high one, someone has to pay out. If they want to make the markets better for the average joe...increse the purple drop rate. make them a little less scarce and the prices will drop. Inf game was cut for every play style that makes inf, so average joe will be lucky to be using regular IOs much less being able to afford purples.

The purple drop rate probably is a bit low.  I've gotten two characters to 50 (one is vet 34), three more in the 40's and a few more in the 30's and I've gotten FIVE purples ever.  Maybe I've just been unlucky, but that much playtime across that many characters seems statistically valid.

[Jimmy]

2 hours ago, Crysis said:

You and many others keep saying that Marketeering gets influence faster and easier.

(Not directed just at @Crysis, just quoting this for convenience...)

 

There's a difference between earning (or generating) influence and amassing influence. Earning influence creates more money and inflates the economy. Amassing influence simply moves that money around (and actually causes deflation due to the market cut). The assertion being made by myself and many others is that farming was (and still is) the fastest way of earning influence in the game. This fact is not incompatible with the claim that marketeering allows you to amass influence faster than farming allows you to earn it.

 

The economy is not a one-dimensional beast, we have different tools and options available to us to tweak different parts of how it functions. The primary goal of this change was to reduce inflation and adjust the balance of earning influence - because earning influence is what creates buying power, and ultimately drives pricing in the market.

 

I'll repeat my earlier statement: Reducing the effectiveness of crafting and using converters would do nothing but massively drive prices of rare goods up for everyone. We don't want that.

[AngelKofsky]

1 minute ago, Crysis said:

So your accusations are not only entirely baseless but flat out wrong.

You can see in other posts where I talk about the patrol xp, and I'm aware. I assumed you were referencing the toggle option that was removed, which was part of the exploit. I can see where I missread what you were saying and apologize. I was wrong about what you were referring to, but stand by my other assertions whether you agree with them or not.

[Ironblade]

3 hours ago, Crysis said:

You and many others keep saying that Marketeering gets influence faster and easier.

 

This is absolutely false or it wouldn’t have been the reason the Devs nerfed AE influence awards ENTIRELY while exemp’ed.

It would be more accurate to say: Marketeering gets inf faster and easier IF YOU ARE AN EXPERT WITH THE MARKET.  You need to actually work at it, learn it and pay attention.

Is it hard?  Not for me.  I made billions that way back on live.  Is it hard for some people?  Absolutely yes.  Too hard for them to bother, too hard for them to find it tolerable, let alone fun.

 

Farming, on the other hand, is incredibly easy.   You can look up a build, read about what AE missions people are using, and have at it.  You literally don't have to figure anything out.

 

 

[golstat2003]

On 3/31/2020 at 12:21 PM, Shadeknight said:

The reactions have varied, but the change is being blown out of proportion. Farms are still going to be the best way - there's just a small decrease in influence in the efforts to close the gap and fix an issue. I don't particularly have a hand in AE farming, but I also prefer people experiencing content outside of the AE building.

If SGs go "bwuh my farming is making less money" and don't host anything, sure that sucks but people will pick up the slack.

Farms have never been the best way to earn inf. Folks just think it is cause they don't want to learn about converters or the market. 🙃

[Ironblade]

1 minute ago, golstat2003 said:

Farms have never been the best way to earn inf. Folks just think it is cause they don't want to learn about converters or the market. 🙃

Depending on your definition of "best".  Farming is the simplest and most straightforward.

Yeah, some people don't want to learn about converters or the market because they don't find that to be FUN, while hitting things is fun.

[Crysis]

3 minutes ago, AngelKofsky said:

You can see in other posts where I talk about the patrol xp, and I'm aware. I assumed you were referencing the toggle option that was removed, which was part of the exploit. I can see where I missread what you were saying and apologize. I was wrong about what you were referring to, but stand by my other assertions whether you agree with them or not.

All good.

 

Ive likely been a bit more bristly because I don’t like the insinuations that any exemp’ed farming was “abusing exploits.”  
 

I was set all the time to earn double influence/no XP and in fact pretty much run all-Attuned IO’s just to be able to do that effectively and run lower level missions post 50.  And I’m sure I had Patrol XP running also so unknowingly benefitted from the “exploit.”

 

But it was never a willful thing.

[golstat2003]

Just now, Ironblade said:

Depending on your definition of "best".  Farming is the simplest and most straightforward.

Yeah, some people don't want to learn about converters or the market because they don't find that to be FUN, while hitting things is fun.

I actually find converters more simple, straightfoward and fun than farming. And I have two fully IO'd farmers on each of my accounts. I use them to level alts, not for inf gain. Everyone's millage may vary as they say. 

 

Some of the techniques in the market form are dead simple.

[Crysis]

6 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

It would be more accurate to say: Marketeering gets inf faster and easier IF YOU ARE AN EXPERT WITH THE MARKET.  You need to actually work at it, learn it and pay attention.

Is it hard?  Not for me.  I made billions that way back on live.  Is it hard for some people?  Absolutely yes.  Too hard for them to bother, too hard for them to find it tolerable, let alone fun.

 

Farming, on the other hand, is incredibly easy.   You can look up a build, read about what AE missions people are using, and have at it.  You literally don't have to figure anything out.

 

 

I can acknowledge that Marketeering is, to a point, the thinking persons’ game.  It can be confusing for many.  
 

But not everyone has the same level of intellectual capacity or even tolerance for anything that doesn’t feel “super heroic.”   And while anyone can farm just by following the Guides here (or engage in at least the basics of Marketeering for that matter) really good farmers get it done faster and more efficiently at some end of the spectrum not just by following a paint by numbers template.  The same is true for Marketeering but I’d be willing to bet that a farmer who closes the gap from an average 5 minute Comic Con run to a 3.5 min clear is not going to “generate” anywhere near the wealth/influence that a top 10 Marketeer will.  That’s the difference.

 

 

[Jimmy]

4 minutes ago, Crysis said:

Ive likely been a bit more bristly because I don’t like the insinuations that any exemp’ed farming was “abusing exploits.”  

Exemp farms alone were not an exploit on their own, but they definitely were an abuse of that mechanic. There's no good reason why a level 49 mission should give greater rewards than a level 50 mission.

[golstat2003]

Just now, Crysis said:

I can acknowledge that Marketeering is, to a point, the thinking persons’ game.  It can be confusing for many.  
 

But not everyone has the same level of intellectual capacity or even tolerance for anything that doesn’t feel “super heroic.”   And while anyone can farm just by following the Guides here (or engage in at least the basics of Marketeering for that matter) really good farmers get it done faster and more efficiently at some end of the spectrum not just by following a paint by numbers template.  The same is true for Marketeering but I’d be willing to bet that a farmer who closes the gap from an average 5 minute Comic Con run to a 3.5 min clear is not going to “generate” anywhere near the wealth/influence that a top 10 Marketeer will.  That’s the difference.

 

 

Pretty much. I've actually timed myself. My fast fire farmer (which has THE BUILD) makes inf significantly slower than my marketing toons with at least 50-100 converters. It's pretty much no contest.

 

As I said some of the techniques listed in the market forum are dead simple.

[Bionic_Flea]

3 minutes ago, mrultimate said:

Prices have gone up in the last 2 days.

Correlation is not causation.  Prices could have gone up because most of the country (or planet even) have been told to stay at home . . . or because there is a new set and power pool and people need to slot their new toys.  Both of those increase demand, which results in increased prices. 

 

Prices go up and down all the time.  If it stays up over a long period, then you may have an argument.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Bionic_Flea

[QuiJon]

1 hour ago, AngelKofsky said:

Wasn't meant to be used to solo farm lvl 49 missions

So was it meant to be used doing level 45 Orro flashbacks? Cause that counted as exempt also and now doesn't. It was MEANT to give a bonus to influence for ignoring XP gain PERIOD. Kind of just like how the double xp token is at the cost of influence.