Create Sonic Blast IO Sets

[aethereal]

Sonic Blast underperforms, at least for blasters.  There are several reasons for this and probably the set needs some retuning in general, but one specific thing is pretty straightforwardly addressable:  the major secondary of the set, damage resist debuffs, does not have associated IO sets.  This creates substantial headwinds for damage in the set (due to fewer applicable damage procs) and generally lower versatility due to smaller number of available set bonuses.

 

At the same time, making a "Resist Damage Debuff" IO set sounds crazy.  There are a lot of REALLY GOOD powers that debuff damage resistance, across a lot of really good powersets, and we might change the game's balance substantially by making a Resist Damage Debuff set.

 

So what if we just... made a couple of Sonic Blast IO sets?  One yellow, one orange, the orange one with probably a straightforward damage proc in it?  With some modestly good set bonuses in them.  They would be applicable only to (most) Sonic Blast powers.  This contains the number of balance points to one underperforming powerset.

 

Is this a little hacky and on-the-nose?  Yes, it's a little hacky and on-the-nose.

 

But there are worse things than hacky solutions.

 

I've heard that fire blast has similar problems, and a similar solution might be good, though I'm less sure how true that is, since fire has a snipe and a ton of AoE.

[MTeague]

They can still take Ranged Damage sets and Blaster ATO sets, no?

Or are you trying to load them up with even more procs than exist among those sets?

[General Idiot]

The problem there is that any enhancement to a resistance buff or debuff would also enhance the power's damage as well, due to the slightly wonky way those two stats are coded in relation to each other. This is why no resistance debuff in the game is enhanceable. Damage buffs are unenhanceable for the same reason.

 

If sonic blast is underperforming, then buff sonic blast. IOs will not solve a problem specific to one power set.

 

Also since when does fire blast have problems? Unless something's changed a lot since the last time I saw someone run the numbers on it, fire has the best aoe of all blaster primaries and isn't too shabby at single target either. I'd really like to see your math as to why it's underpowered.

[Uun]

What would they do? Resistance debuffs are universally set to ignore enhancements. Other blast sets don't have secondary effects at all (Archery, Fire), or have secondary effects that can't be enhanced (-recharge in Psychic and Ice), yet nobody considers them underperforming (well, maybe Archery). Fire outperforms every other blast set and needs no help.

[aethereal]

The goal is not to enhance the resistance debuffs, it is to give sonic blast access to procs and additional set bonuses.  These sets would be like traditional ranged-damage sets: they would enhance accuracy, damage, endurance, recharge, and maybe range.

 

The advantage that a set like rad blast has is not that you desperately want to make the defense debuff higher, it's that every blast in the set can take the -20% damage resistance proc.  DP can take like five different procs per power.  Energy Blast can take force feedback.  And almost every other blast set just has a lot more options for puzzle-piecing in that last bit of, whatever s/l defense or recharge or ranged defense or global accuracy or whatever it is you need to make your build, because they simply have more total sets available to them.

[Indystruck]

Fire Blast and Sonic Blast are at like, polar opposite ends of the tier list.

[aethereal]

20 minutes ago, Indystruck said:

Fire Blast and Sonic Blast are at like, polar opposite ends of the tier list.

I'm not sure that's actually true in IO-land.  Fire certainly isn't the top of the ST damage world.  But regardless, my suggestion is mainly for Sonic, not Fire.

[Grouchybeast]

I feel that adding sets called 'Damage Resistance Debuff' sets, that slot into Damage Resistance Debuff powers and yet have absolutely no effect on Damage Resistance Debuff has the potential to be extremely confusing, and would probably lead to a lot of bug reports.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

Achilles heel and fury of the gladiator procs both debuff resistance. Give em a shot

[Outrider_01]

3 hours ago, aethereal said:

Sonic Blast underperforms, at least for blasters. 

You should look at it as a whole

 

-Resist with +Defiance Damage, your plain damage is getting better. 

 

1 hour ago, aethereal said:

traditional ranged-damage sets: they would enhance accuracy, damage, endurance, recharge, and maybe range.

That is exactly what range sets do, they enhance that aspect of the power which is range. 

 

On the flip side, do you know anybody crazy enough to slot Ice blasts with -slow powersets?  Ice bolt...hmm, you could slot a "Reverse Time Machine" set (think of the Flash turning into a statue) with  -rech and a smashing proc from the slow sets or go full blown InsertAnyRange set.

 

1 hour ago, aethereal said:

rad blast has is not that you desperately want to make the defense debuff higher, it's that every blast in the set can take the -20% damage resistance proc.

Achilles is unique, it means you can slot it once in any attack.  

 

Annihilation can go in any target AoE, cones or PBoA range (fireball).  Those are not exactly secondary for the entire powerset, they are for the power type which is not a secondary effect.  So you are looking at maybe 5 max such as Assault Rifle.  Buckshot/M30/Flamethrower/Ignite/Full Auto, but with how it all animates I don't see a problem.

 

1 hour ago, aethereal said:

because they simply have more total sets available to them.

And not all power sets are gonna 5 slot random proc in every power.  If you need more +Random set bonus, look at what your secondary can give you.

 

People need to realize, not all Powersets are homogenized across every power set for procs IOs.  Suddenly ThisRandomPower can slot 5 procs, now everybody is going to want to slot in any powerset.  

Edited April 14, 2020 by Outrider_01

[Uun]

2 hours ago, aethereal said:

The goal is not to enhance the resistance debuffs, it is to give sonic blast access to procs and additional set bonuses.  These sets would be like traditional ranged-damage sets: they would enhance accuracy, damage, endurance, recharge, and maybe range.

 

The advantage that a set like rad blast has is not that you desperately want to make the defense debuff higher, it's that every blast in the set can take the -20% damage resistance proc.  DP can take like five different procs per power.  Energy Blast can take force feedback.  And almost every other blast set just has a lot more options for puzzle-piecing in that last bit of, whatever s/l defense or recharge or ranged defense or global accuracy or whatever it is you need to make your build, because they simply have more total sets available to them.

The problem with Sonic isn't the IO sets it accepts (although you can slot Force Feedback into Shockwave). Its got 3 short cones, 2 of which do crap damage. Its got a virtually no-damage stun (compare Screech to Cosmic Burst or Abyssal Gaze). Its got no snipe. 

[aethereal]

6 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

Achilles is unique, it means you can slot it once in any attack.  

You are incorrect, Achilles Heel is not unique.

 

In general:

 

There are already three different protocols for what can constitute an IO set.  Maybe four, depending on how you count it.  IO sets can be by "general type of power," like melee damage.  They can be by specific power effect, like endurance modification.  And they can be by AT, like ATOs.  (If you count it differently, they can also be by like super-class of power, like universal damage or travel).  Adding a new set that was like ranged damage, but only slottable by sonic blast would be weird, certainly, but not like a crazy modification to the IO system.

 

And not having good IO slotting is important, and makes a considerable difference in what you can do with a build.  Is better slotting the only thing that Sonic needs?  No, as I said in the original post.  But it could be a big help without the kind of serious undertaking that revamping an entire set is.  We've seen in page 5 that it's relatively straightforward to add IO sets.

[Naraka]

Sounds like you just want procs.

 

Why not just ask to have a proc added to 1 or 2 of the lower level ranged damage sets that have less than 5 IOs in the set?  A set specifically for -res powers is dumb since you can't enhance -res.  It'd be like adding a set for sleep powers that enhance immobilize duration.

[Nayeh]

I'm lost as to what the original request is. Sonic Blast already debuffs resistances and, essentially, buffs it's own damage when strung with consecutive attacks. You can already use traditional damage-slotted Enhancements (Positron's Blast, for example) for most powers or use unique ones slotted into Siren's Call (Sleep), Screech (Stun), and Shockwave (Knockback), and I believe I use Fury of the Gladiator in Dreadful Wail with Obliteration.

 

If you want a gimmicky pool that relies on Proc damage then perhaps Sonic isn't the pool for you. My main gripe with Sonic are the animation casts. I actually only use Shriek, Scream, Howl, Aim, and Dreadful Wail on my Poison/Sonic Defender because they provide a decent attack chain for me.

 

I don't view Sonic Blast as underperforming. It's a debuffer set.

[Outrider_01]

5 hours ago, aethereal said:

You are incorrect, Achilles Heel is not unique.

I was looking at something in Mids and glancing in the AH, might be confusing something but it said unique.

 

5 hours ago, aethereal said:

 

And not having good IO slotting is important, and makes a considerable difference in what you can do with a build.

That is a player assumption, not a a powerset underperformance issue. IOs didn't exist back when Sonic was released.  How would you build something without set bonus?  Standard 3 IO max per attrbutes SO.

 

Your comment should be "lack of IO options" which you are trying to put forth.  Ice is the same as Fire or Sonic if you think about it, but nobody is gonna slot slow since it blast powers (damage aspect) unless you are weired.

 

5 hours ago, aethereal said:

We've seen in page 5 that it's relatively straightforward to add IO sets.

-Resit cannot be enhanced, so you basically have a +ACC/EndReduc/Rech set.  You can use plain IO with out the set bonus.

 

You are better off rethinking your builds or power combos.  Not every set is gonna perform the same and lacking slotting options isn't a good basis for requesting a new set line.

• If you can't get all of one thing, try adding another you didn't think of before.  Sometimes outside the box builds can be more satisfying, won't perform to exceptional standards but will now excel in in a couple.
• They released new sets in existing ones, not a new classification of set.  There is no set for intangible powers, yet SO enhancements say increase duration last I checked.  More range or universal, EZPZ.
• Can they make a new line from scratch?  We don't know. But Intangible would be next to -Resit.  Personally I want to see intangible be a damage hold with a short duration untouchable, kinda like fire ball but not that level of damage.
• Requesting diversity and expansions on current range sets (as well as the rest), why not?  Much easier.  3 or 4 IO sets don't compare to sets with 6 bonuses.

[Indystruck]

16 hours ago, aethereal said:

I'm not sure that's actually true in IO-land.  Fire certainly isn't the top of the ST damage world.  But regardless, my suggestion is mainly for Sonic, not Fire.

I'm pretty sure that's actually true in IO-land. At the same level fire gets Blaze and Blazing Bolt, Sonic gets Siren's Song and Screech. Even in "IO-land," there's no damage procs in stun or sleep, which are the only procs that Sonic Attack would have access to over Fire blast.  Shockwave vs. Rain of Fire, RoF does 3x the damage at base. Fire ball vs. Howl, Fire Ball out damages it while also having less than half the cast time. If you're talking proc builds, you're looking at Ice and Dark and maybe Beam to compare to, not Sonic to Fire. 

 

Adding a IO set dedicated to Sonic Blast would not fundamentally fix the issues with Sonic Blast, it'd just make it so you have less options in the world of IOs because either: that set would be so good for it, you'd be a fool not to slot it, or it'd be a middle of the road set, in which case, why bother altering a build composition just for it? If the power set needs changing, changing the power set is how you do it, not through slapping a dedicated IO set bandaid on it.

[Sovera]

3 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

I was looking at something in Mids and glancing in the AH, might be confusing something but it said unique.

Achille's Heel -res is not unique in the sense that they can be slotted in multiple powers. BUT. They are unique in the sense that if anyone in the team has one and hits something and the -res kicks in, then if ANYONE in the team has another Achille's Heel, or if the same person had multiple Achille Heel's slotted, then they will not stack.

 

This is why they matter when doing Pylon runs but not so much when in a team since there are seven chances in eight that someone will have one of the -res procs slotted in.