My friend dislikes my Controller

[Socks10]

Aside from a large number of alts, I currently main a Grav/Time Controller and an Ice/Ice Tanker. Both in their 40s. The friend in question loves when I play my Tanker, but you can almost hear him groan through the Internet when I suggest I'm going to be playing my Controller. I even got him to admit that he's not a fan last night. Now, I'm an awesome Controller. I buff everyone with Farsight when it's up, same with Temporal Selection. I Wormhole huge mobs right to us, completely immobilized, then I debuff them, immobilize them some more, drop a slow on the floor under the entire group, and hold the troublesome mobs until the team is ready. Doing damage as much as I can with my powers as well. He appreciates none of it. The buffs, I'm sure he'd miss, but probably doesn't notice half the time. All of the controlling? He'd rather I run in with my Tanker, aggro everything, and get healed occasionally, if needed. I'm worried he'll grow tired of my Tanker later too, when he realizes there are probably other ATs that can hold the aggro and do more damage. 

 

Now, I'm not really that concerned about my friend. I'll play what I want and he'll like it! But, is this something that Controllers notice when grouping up in general at higher levels? Are other ATs preferred much more in groups because they deal more damage? Will my Tanker have trouble as well because of low damage output? 

[Meknomancer]

Biggest problem is that most controllers will either watch the melee take the alpha and immediately immob everything out of melee range so it becomes a case of running about the mob killing each enemy individually or move the melee's target (via something like wormhole) forcing them to choose another closer or once again run after their target. You could try waiting a couple of seconds til the mobs in full melee on your friend before using immobs/wormhole/whatever because i'm betting the reason he dislike teaming with the troller so much is that it slows the fight down to the point where it becomes tedious and not fun.

[Redlynne]

Next time you play with your friend, make a point of not using your buffing/debuffing powers.  Just blast away with Gravity Control (Crush, Lift, Propel) and see if he notices the difference.  Don't even use Gravity Distortion, any of your AoEs or your Singularity Pet.  Make a point of playing as if you were merely a Blaster.  The only thing you do is damage.

 

If your friend notices that ... hey ... it's taking a lot more effort to deal with stuff for some reason ... he might catch a clue(!) and ask you to start doing all of your buff/debuff action again, at which point he'll be able to night vs day compare how much easier you've been making things for him while he completely discounted/ignored everything that you were doing to make life easier for everyone.

 

Sometimes you only miss the things you take for granted when they're gone.

[Carnifax]

1 hour ago, Meknomancer said:

Biggest problem is that most controllers will either watch the melee take the alpha and immediately immob everything out of melee range

This. It's incredibly annoying when Controllers pin things all 15 feet away from each other and wreck your aoes.

 

Wormhole with a kb2kd does the opposite though so wormhole + immob is a great combo for clumping things into an aoe friendly bag of treats. 

[Golden Azrael]

5 hours ago, Socks10 said:

Aside from a large number of alts, I currently main a Grav/Time Controller and an Ice/Ice Tanker. Both in their 40s. The friend in question loves when I play my Tanker, but you can almost hear him groan through the Internet when I suggest I'm going to be playing my Controller. I even got him to admit that he's not a fan last night. Now, I'm an awesome Controller. I buff everyone with Farsight when it's up, same with Temporal Selection. I Wormhole huge mobs right to us, completely immobilized, then I debuff them, immobilize them some more, drop a slow on the floor under the entire group, and hold the troublesome mobs until the team is ready. Doing damage as much as I can with my powers as well. He appreciates none of it. The buffs, I'm sure he'd miss, but probably doesn't notice half the time. All of the controlling? He'd rather I run in with my Tanker, aggro everything, and get healed occasionally, if needed. I'm worried he'll grow tired of my Tanker later too, when he realizes there are probably other ATs that can hold the aggro and do more damage. 

 

Now, I'm not really that concerned about my friend. I'll play what I want and he'll like it! But, is this something that Controllers notice when grouping up in general at higher levels? Are other ATs preferred much more in groups because they deal more damage? Will my Tanker have trouble as well because of low damage output? 

'He'll like it!' 

 

Will he? 😛

 

As an Ice/Ice tanker, you're familiar with wanting the aggro' to swarm on you so your DoT and Slow Aura can play to your strengths?  It would be annoying if someone with an ego the size of a balloon Mez Immobilised Spammed that 'taunt' or aggro' before it had fully settled on you?  ie.  Your taunt would be neutered.  You'd be left to run around and do what?  Throw the odd punch whilst the controller plays City of Lamp posts.  He won't 'appreciate' it if you keep breaking his taunt.  Highly irritating.  You'll get no 'thanks' for that.

 

If you're not concerned about your friend, then why worry if they grow tried of your controller or tanker?

 

Tip.  *Watch him tank.  And support what he's trying to do.  If you're a Controller, you're in a support role, not leading.  So let them lead.  And throw your power around their strength instead of 'I....' and more 'I....' and yet more ....'I....'  Yes.  Many heroes have ego.  But on my teams?  Whether I'm the tank or not?  I lead as tank or follow the tank.  ie.  Support the tank in the latter instance.

 

Tank (you or him.)  Pull the mob to a corner and mass around the tank.

Controller.  Then let loose with the mez/immob' spam.

 

Why?

 

It's more efficient this way.  Otherwise, I move to the next mob and leave the Controller with all the aggro'.  We have to respect each role on our team.  If the tank can't lead?  There's no point being on the team.  Let the controller plays City of Immo Spam.

 

It's really irritating when a controller plays 'immob' spam.  As a tank?  I just move to the next mob.  If I'm on my Domi?  I *WAIT* until the tank has all the aggro' on them before I do anything.

 

If you're going to 'duo' with your friend?  It's a two way street.  You have to learn to work together.  Swapping tank and controller roles occasionally, you should learn what it feels like to do that role.

 

Azrael.

 

PS.  In the age of the 'super athlete' attuned builds and perma capped IO builds...many ATs can 'spam' with immunity.  That can leave the traditional roles somewhat confused and blurred.  Controller spamming is quite the problem in general from what I've seen.  Mob?  Immob SPAM!  Power, sure.  But where the elegance of tactics and the art of war?

Edited April 28, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

2 hours ago, Carnifax said:

This. It's incredibly annoying when Controllers pin things all 15 feet away from each other and wreck your aoes.

 

Wormhole with a kb2kd does the opposite though so wormhole + immob is a great combo for clumping things into an aoe friendly bag of treats. 

 

Agreed.

 

Wormhole can be used to grab some aggro' (other than the tanks) onto the tank.  The tank can stand at a given place and a duo of tank and controller can tag team the taunt/aggro'.  Depends on what relationship/communication you have with your DUO partner.

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

4 hours ago, Meknomancer said:

Biggest problem is that most controllers will either watch the melee take the alpha and immediately immob everything out of melee range so it becomes a case of running about the mob killing each enemy individually or move the melee's target (via something like wormhole) forcing them to choose another closer or once again run after their target. You could try waiting a couple of seconds til the mobs in full melee on your friend before using immobs/wormhole/whatever because i'm betting the reason he dislike teaming with the troller so much is that it slows the fight down to the point where it becomes tedious and not fun.

Yep.

 

Azrael.

[Socks10]

18 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

'He'll like it!' 

 

Will he? 😛

 

As an Ice/Ice tanker, you're familiar with wanting the aggro' to swarm on you so your DoT and Slow Aura can play to your strengths?  It would be annoying if someone with an ego the size of a balloon Mez Immobilised Spammed that 'taunt' or aggro' before it had fully settled on you?  ie.  Your taunt would be neutered.  You'd be left to run around and do what?  Throw the odd punch whilst the controller plays City of Lamp posts.  He won't 'appreciate' it if you keep breaking his taunt.  Highly irritating.  You'll get no 'thanks' for that.

 

If you're not concerned about your friend, then why worry if they grow tried of your controller or tanker?

 

Tip.  *Watch him tank.  And support what he's trying to do.  If you're a Controller, you're in a support role, not leading.  So let them lead.  And throw your power around their strength instead of 'I....' and more 'I....' and yet more ....'I....'  Yes.  Many heroes have ego.  But on my teams?  Whether I'm the tank or not?  I lead as tank or follow the tank.  ie.  Support the tank in the latter instance.

 

Haha. I reread my original post and I definitely made it sound like I'm a pretty special Controller. 🙂

 

Truth be told, there is so much to this game I feel like I could constantly be learning. I do feel like I have an idea how to play this class and not be a hindrance. I know not to immobilize or hold mobs before they surround the melee. Mostly, when playing with my small group of friends, I wormhole a large group of (completely stunned) mobs directly on top of my tank. They couldn't be more tightly packed. I think all I could do to make it better is to increase the recharge on my Wormhole. I think the issue my friend might have is that even if I can keep casting Wormhole as soon as we get to the next spawn group, the casting time alone is slower then the melee just jumping right in. And he's kind of right. If Wormhole is not needed, I probably shouldn't be using it on all spawn groups. Now, I haven't been in a ton of large groups with my Controller, but when I have been and the group has been streamrolling, I only use Wormhole to add an extra group of spawns on top of he already engaged Tank. 

 

@Golden Azrael - I think you hit the nail on the head. When I'm playing my Tanker, I take the lead. I move the group by continuously pushing spawns and aggroing whatever I can. When I'm playing my Controller, I know I'm a support class. However, I may not play like it always when I'm in my small group of friends. I sometimes push spawns and grab mobs to through back towards my group. When maybe I should just be more of a support and let the Tanker do his thing. Especially if we do not need to have the group of mobs stunned completely before attacking...

[Doc Ranger]

Much of the good stuff has been covered. I too hate when a controller doesn't play to the strengths of the team. Don't just "do all you can do". Do what benefits the playstyles of the team. For example...I don't bring out pets AT ALL during play unless the team needs it...like AVs where we need more DPS etc or when I am solo. 

 

Also I wouldn't be spamming wormhole if the tank is already near the aggro cap. If you give him more than he can aggro then the rest will immediately look for the next victim to pummel. 

 

I was playing my Stalker the other day and the troller kept immobing things before the were grouped. Or others were KBing mobs out of reach. I decided I wasn't going to chase things around and just moved on whenever that happened.

 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Doc Ranger

[Socks10]

1 minute ago, Doc Ranger said:

Much of the good stuff has been covered. I too hate when a controller doesn't play to the strengths of the team. Don't just "do all you can do". Do what benefits the playstyles of the team. For example...I don't bring out pets AT ALL during play unless the team needs it...like AVs where we need more DPS etc or when I am solo. 

 

Also I wouldn't be spamming wormhole if the tank is already near the aggro cap. If you give him more than he can aggro then the rest will immediately look for the next victim to pummel. 

 

 

I didn't even think about Singy. There were times when I'm sure my pet threw mobs in ever direction and I laughed it off. Maybe I'm more of a "hindrance" than I thought. Haha.

[Golden Azrael]

6 minutes ago, Socks10 said:

Haha. I reread my original post and I definitely made it sound like I'm a pretty special Controller. 🙂

 

Truth be told, there is so much to this game I feel like I could constantly be learning. I do feel like I have an idea how to play this class and not be a hindrance. I know not to immobilize or hold mobs before they surround the melee. Mostly, when playing with my small group of friends, I wormhole a large group of (completely stunned) mobs directly on top of my tank. They couldn't be more tightly packed. I think all I could do to make it better is to increase the recharge on my Wormhole. I think the issue my friend might have is that even if I can keep casting Wormhole as soon as we get to the next spawn group, the casting time alone is slower then the melee just jumping right in. And he's kind of right. If Wormhole is not needed, I probably shouldn't be using it on all spawn groups. Now, I haven't been in a ton of large groups with my Controller, but when I have been and the group has been streamrolling, I only use Wormhole to add an extra group of spawns on top of he already engaged Tank. 

 

@Golden Azrael - I think you hit the nail on the head. When I'm playing my Tanker, I take the lead. I move the group by continuously pushing spawns and aggroing whatever I can. When I'm playing my Controller, I know I'm a support class. However, I may not play like it always when I'm in my small group of friends. I sometimes push spawns and grab mobs to through back towards my group. When maybe I should just be more of a support and let the Tanker do his thing. Especially if we do not need to have the group of mobs stunned completely before attacking...

Just follow the tank's lead.  That doesn't stop you from doing what you can do as a Controller.  You can enhance what the tank does.  You have the toolset to do so.  eg.  when he has aggro' drop your singularity on the mob/tank's head.  Crush them in that corner.

 

In a team without a tank?  Different matter.  You could take the 'lead' and 'tank' yourself.  Remember, we're all...'special.'

 

Azrael.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

5 minutes ago, Doc Ranger said:

Much of the good stuff has been covered. I too hate when a controller doesn't play to the strengths of the team. Don't just "do all you can do". Do what benefits the playstyles of the team. For example...I don't bring out pets AT ALL during play unless the team needs it...like AVs where we need more DPS etc or when I am solo. 

 

Also I wouldn't be spamming wormhole if the tank is already near the aggro cap. If you give him more than he can aggro then the rest will immediately look for the next victim to pummel. 

 

I was playing my Stalker the other day and the troller kept immobing things before the were grouped. Or others were KBing mobs out of reach. I decided I wasn't going to chase things around and just moved on whenever that happened.

 

 

Amen.

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

3 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Next time you play with your friend, make a point of not using your buffing/debuffing powers.  Just blast away with Gravity Control (Crush, Lift, Propel) and see if he notices the difference.  Don't even use Gravity Distortion, any of your AoEs or your Singularity Pet.  Make a point of playing as if you were merely a Blaster.  The only thing you do is damage.

 

If your friend notices that ... hey ... it's taking a lot more effort to deal with stuff for some reason ... he might catch a clue(!) and ask you to start doing all of your buff/debuff action again, at which point he'll be able to night vs day compare how much easier you've been making things for him while he completely discounted/ignored everything that you were doing to make life easier for everyone.

 

Sometimes you only miss the things you take for granted when they're gone.

Aye.  But a spam Controller won't be one of them.

 

Azrael.

[Dahkness]

At least he’s honest. Just two different play styles. Do you really want a brainless crony as a friend? If so you should reroll as a MM

Edited April 28, 2020 by Hops

[Doc Ranger]

I think I am just getting old but I am really starting to realize I don’t like anything that visually obstructs my view of the battlefield. 
 

Pets in general. Big lore pets. Stormies really get under my skin 🙂 Bright colors on Time effects. 
 

What is wrong with me?

[Peacemoon]

19 hours ago, Meknomancer said:

Biggest problem is that most controllers will either watch the melee take the alpha and immediately immob everything out of melee range so it becomes a case of running about the mob killing each enemy individually or move the melee's target (via something like wormhole) forcing them to choose another closer or once again run after their target. You could try waiting a couple of seconds til the mobs in full melee on your friend before using immobs/wormhole/whatever because i'm betting the reason he dislike teaming with the troller so much is that it slows the fight down to the point where it becomes tedious and not fun.

TBH this can be annoying. I’ve only seen it once, as tankers are quite rare and people don’t realise all the mobs will run into melee. Also most teams are pretty much all ranged or heavy ranged and aren’t that bothered. Melee can be quite vocal about this sort of thing but usually no one else cares.

 

As for Grav, as long as you don’t do what my husband decided is a fun strategy, which is to wormhole all the mobs together and then cast singularity into them as they’re standing up, then I think you’ll be fine! (Words were exchanged!!)

[Golden Azrael]

17 hours ago, Doc Ranger said:

I think I am just getting old but I am really starting to realize I don’t like anything that visually obstructs my view of the battlefield. 
 

Pets in general. Big lore pets. Stormies really get under my skin 🙂 Bright colors on Time effects. 
 

What is wrong with me?

It's part of getting old.  Not liking anything.  Well, except pancakes.

 

Azrael.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

18 hours ago, Hops said:

At least he’s honest. Just two different play styles. Do you really want a brainless crony as a friend? If so you should reroll as a MM

Yes.

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

4 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

TBH this can be annoying. I’ve only seen it once, as tankers are quite rare and people don’t realise all the mobs will run into melee. Also most teams are pretty much all ranged or heavy ranged and aren’t that bothered. Melee can be quite vocal about this sort of thing but usually no one else cares.

 

As for Grav, as long as you don’t do what my husband decided is a fun strategy, which is to wormhole all the mobs together and then cast singularity into them as they’re standing up, then I think you’ll be fine! (Words were exchanged!!)

Good comment.

 

Back on live.  Well, even before i4, it was nice to 'stand and watch' ATs as they performed their role.

 

Tanks go and get the aggro'.  With a healer on standby 'just in case.'   Too bruising?  Let the blaster take his turn and pull the mob with a snipe.  Then?  'JUMP(!)' the mob when they swarm the tank.  (Don't forget that heal...)  Controllers.  Used to be like gold dust.  An elevated and respected AT.  It was great to have them on your team.  As most liked to play blasters, tanks or scrappers.  Ergo Defenders who could heal or Controllers were rare and much sought after.  You always knew when you had a 'good' controller on your team.  (To be fair, this was before IOs spawned the IO super athlete who can do lung busting feats on early TFs with a good Attuned perma hasten def' capped build...)  I still view the game as best seen through the eyes of a top SO build.

 

Gradually, I learned that a team need not need a healer or a tank.  That a controller (a good one...) could lead from the front (one mind controller comes to mind...he was excellent) and it was 'something' to see a mass brawl break out in a mob with the rest of the team looking on in awe.

 

I never did get a Controller past L10 on live.  But I *have* on HC.  (Illusion, Radiation AND Stone Epic. :D)

 

So it's always a good idea to walk in an AT's shoes before you break eg. a tank's pull with 'instant immob'!'.

 

As for Gravity controllers.  I don't mind them being 'naughty.'  It all boils down to having that 'psychic' understanding.  I personally think that DUO teaming (good for Husband and Wives, or 'good friends...') is the way to travel as it will test your AT knowledge and team work.  Playing a Gravity controller is enlightening and very different to Illusion...  The amount of things you can do with Singularity (Pass me the neural grenade, 'Arry...this one is a bit of 'an 'ard case...) and wormhole are intoxicating and you can certainly 'complement' as tank.  You don't necessarily have to stand looking at a tank like some supportive gooseberry.  But breaking a tank's taunt every....single....time...is...*tanks stops.  Watches as the lampost timer runs down.  Looks at the 'Troller (pun intended) deals with an angry mob with a can of beans for Hit Points....and those HPs go down in that staccato fashion  (You pulled the aggro'...and guess what, you're dead.  How did that happen? 😛 )

 

So, I viewed the initial post with some fondness and affection.  We've all been there.  I'm invincible....!  Don't you know who I am?  I....Imperio will save us all...and beat this mob...(breaks taunt...) and aggro this mob...SEE?  Don't you revere the awesome of the SUper EGo I?  ME?  I-ME?  Me name alone inspires the Gods to weave tale of lore on lute...etc etc.

 

Azrael.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[SwitchFade]

Having played grav a bunch, here's why many melee players dislike it

 

Wormhole takes forever, and it usually lands MOBs in the wrong place. If I'm running in to kill stuff and wormhole is cast chances are it moves them away from me, or things are already dead, so, wasted. Conversely I may have to wait around while the Grav sets all his tricks up to get everything just right to move MOBs so that debu.... Facepalm *runs in*

 

Immobs are used poorly quite frequently, holding enemies out of range. All AoE wasted, run from Target to target. Example tank runs in, scraps in tow... TAUNT! Alpha! Immob. Damn. Everything is out of melee range. WP gets no Regen bonus. Invuln gets no def bonus. AoE is wasted.

 

Singularity... Throws everything around. Sigh, run from foe to foe... Again.

 

Kind you, I'm not saying this is everyone's perspective, or mine, but it's valid and why grav is groaned at, as well as other controller sets.

[Hardboiled Hero]

You really want to set your "friend" straight, play an energy sentinel, they can get faster attack speed than energy blasters, in order to be extra annoying.

 

  In answer to the question though, I must be a horrible controller, but people rarely complain.  Generally speaking, poor controls is better than no controls.. sure it can make fights take longer, but it still stops people from dying, and dying repeatedly makes fights take longer as well.  Then again, I rarely play controllers..  Dominators all the time though.  I just don't get how people can stand playing a AT that seems to have so little killpower in it..  maybe that's a result of the fact that I've never actually played CoH with friends though. (I'm livin' the pug life)

[Socks10]

15 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Having played grav a bunch, here's why many melee players dislike it

 

Wormhole takes forever, and it usually lands MOBs in the wrong place. If I'm running in to kill stuff and wormhole is cast chances are it moves them away from me, or things are already dead, so, wasted. Conversely I may have to wait around while the Grav sets all his tricks up to get everything just right to move MOBs so that debu.... Facepalm *runs in*

 

Immobs are used poorly quite frequently, holding enemies out of range. All AoE wasted, run from Target to target. Example tank runs in, scraps in tow... TAUNT! Alpha! Immob. Damn. Everything is out of melee range. WP gets no Regen bonus. Invuln gets no def bonus. AoE is wasted.

 

Singularity... Throws everything around. Sigh, run from foe to foe... Again.

 

Kind you, I'm not saying this is everyone's perspective, or mine, but it's valid and why grav is groaned at, as well as other controller sets.

I love Wormhole, but I can definitely see how it could bother some melee. There were times when I'd go to pull a spawn, and while I was casting, the melee characters ran up. I had to say "Umm, not there.". I also can see how Singularity would be annoying as well. It's a very good pet, but absolutely has no problems flinging mobs every which way. This is especially noticeable when I'm using Wormhole to drop the spawn groups on a pin head near it. 🙂

 

The thing is, I have a lot of powers available to me with my Grav/Time Controller. I just need to remember I don't need to use all of them all of the time. 🙂

[VV]

What AT does your friend play, Scrapper?

 

And, yeah, nobody likes good controllers because they are gawds amongst the rest of the peon ATs. Heck, Singularity is a better combatant than many players I've teamed with.  This is probably why he dislikes it. When you are playing an Ice/Ice tank, you desperately need help killing mobs before they die of old age. Grav/Time, not so much.

 

Of course, nobody likes bad controllers, but that's kind of a pointless thing to say. Nobody likes bad tankers, blasters, etc, either.

[VV]

10 hours ago, Socks10 said:

The thing is, I have a lot of powers available to me with my Grav/Time Controller. I just need to remember I don't need to use all of them all of the time. 🙂

This is one of my favorite things about Controllers. You can do all your work while keeping a few powers held for when something bad happens. I usually keep the big AOE hold in my pocket. Then when it hits the fan, someone over-aggroes or something, there I am saving the day.

[Socks10]

5 hours ago, VV said:

This is one of my favorite things about Controllers. You can do all your work while keeping a few powers held for when something bad happens. I usually keep the big AOE hold in my pocket. Then when it hits the fan, someone over-aggroes or something, there I am saving the day.

I do this too. It’s a nice power to have ready when things get out of control. 

 

I actually did a mission with this same friend last night. I used my Controller and he had a Mind/Psi Dominator. He definitely enjoyed this pairing. We did a high level mission in PI where we had to fight Infernal. We had zero issues until Infernal, where my friend got one-shotted. I had to use all of my powers and it was a very tough fight, but we prevailed. I just had to kite the boss away a couple of times to get my friend some Rez inspirations. :)