P2W Option: Reject White Salvage Drops

[MunkiLord]

I think a better solution would be to add an option in the right click menu to post all salvage of a chosen rarity for a chosen price to the market at once. This would allow quick dumping of salvage and have the added benefit of creating additional supply. My current method is to right click on white salvage and press 'S' to delete the stack.

[tidge]

Just a couple of informative points about the salvage market:

 

1) Seeding the salvage market established a ceiling on market prices; it has nothing to do with the floor of the prices.

 

2) The market pools all of the salvage of the same rarity: This allows players to buy salvage of any rarity at lower-than-seeded prices determined only by other players who put the salvage on the market (at that same rarity).

 

Now for my opinion(s):

 

It is the second point which I believe has kept market prices low (for not just salvage, but also recipes and enhancements).

 

[Yoru-hime]

12 minutes ago, Nanolathe said:

So, if I understand your position correctly, you want the prices to go up for everyone, because for you, it's not worth your time?

It's not a matter of want but understanding market behavior. As the price goes up, new sellers are encouraged to enter the market, thereby providing negative pressure on the rising price and stopping it from going higher. As prices drop, some sellers consider it no longer worth the effort and withdraw from the market, reducing the supply and pressuring the price back upwards until it begins to hover around a balance point.

 

The funny thing is that, judgmental tone aside, unless you spend a lot of time flipping, the self-interest that controls the market dictates that you probably SHOULD want higher prices. Most players produce far more salvage than they'll ever consume, so being able to sell that produce at a high price would easily offset the relatively few times that they have to buy at the elevated price. Of course, the Catch-22 is that that's also the very reason why the prices CAN'T stay at the high levels that seem to be making so many people here anxious. There are so many potential sellers out there just waiting to flood the market, undercut each other and crush out any meaningful rise in price the moment that price increase makes it feel "worth their time".

 

In the case of CoH and white salvage, the disparity between the amount generated and what's actually used is simply massive. Even with many, many players choosing to trash or vendor it, the glut is so huge that the auction house price is basically just a nominal transfer fee. Unless you're looking at literally over half of the playerbase using this filter -and- refusing to stop no matter what, the idea that we'd ever get near the 10,000 hard cap feels really extreme. Remember that any player currently trashing or vendoring is already out of the supply pool, so a change in their behavior would have no effect on the market. Also keep in mind that pretty much any active player can choose to become a new supplier at any time with minimal effort or change in behavior.

 

I notice that a lot of the horror stories about the bad old days tend to focus on Luck Charms and Circuit Boards and forget about how cheap Kinetic Weapons and Spirit Thorns always were. Remember that binning works independently to eliminate those localized price spikes in lower-level salvage. You can't short the supply of Masterwork Weapons when every Fortune and Silver dumped on the market is working against you.

[blayzemaster]

21 minutes ago, Yoru-hime said:

I notice that a lot of the horror stories about the bad old days tend to focus on Luck Charms and Circuit Boards and forget about how cheap Kinetic Weapons and Spirit Thorns always were. Remember that binning works independently to eliminate those localized price spikes in lower-level salvage. You can't short the supply of Masterwork Weapons when every Fortune and Silver dumped on the market is working against you.

Thank you - this is what I was trying to get at with the end of my post but this is put far far better.

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 5/18/2020 at 1:33 PM, Zeraphia said:

Your comment is under a few assumptions:

 

1. That players providing the salvage is critical, thus the salvage should be dropped/mandatory. Normally yes, but it leaves out significant details like the fact the salvage is infinitely seeded, there is a size-able population that won't use it, there is ALREADY a significant population that is just DELETING the salvage as we speak (self-included) and a lot that are just vendoring it, therefore a lot of it already isn't even going into the AH to make this argument very concrete.

2. It assumes again as addressed above, the fact that players are even selling the salvage on the AH, when the reality is that a size-able portion are not, I'd actually venture to say *most* are not.

3. It also assumes that there isn't distinctions already between the rarities of reject-able items (recipes/inspirations). We already have options to reject inspirations by the category of what it enhances/does and how large of an inspiration it is, as well as enabling/disabling dual inspirations. The same is done for recipes. That begs the question, if this is already a precedent, why shouldn't you be able to reject salvage by rarity? Why is the tax on salvage rejection there for seemingly no reason?

4. It assumes that I even get the "salvage" from "little people" the salvage is seeded if they want to sell their salvage for that, then they are welcomed to. This doesn't stop the sales of the salvage itself nor does it force people who would've already sold the salvage not to sell it anymore. This is a weird argument that doesn't make logical sense, the same people who are already selling this salvage on the AH are the same people who will likely sell it afterwards. You also have no idea who is selling the salvage, you don't know if they're little or big, in fact a lot of the "losers" on the market are the ones selling high-end purples for cheap. 

 

A tax as used in this context is a "price to pay" (drawback) for the freedom to do something. The example you used is not a relevant example, is sort of wacky, and doesn't make a lot of sense...

Actually, my comment that all or nothing seems like the best solution doesn't assume any of this.  Not sure where you are getting this from.  

 

Your position is clear:  you want to get rid of the part of the salvage system that you don't like, and you want to keep the parts that you do like.  Understandable.  We all want things.  

 

I believe that if the devs offered you your ten lollipops on a platter, then most people would opt in.  Why not get everything good and not have to bother with the white and yellow salvage which is below your notice?  The problem is that it reduces incentive for anyone to post that white and yellow salvage, and then you have market imbalances and those same people who complain about how much of a pain in the butt white or yellow salvage is start complaining about how expensive it is to buy compared to what they expect.  You are correct that salvage is infinitely seeded, if by infinite you mean initially 10mm pieces.   A cursory examination would show that there is a surplus on the market of white salvage, about even on yellow, and a deficit on orange salvage.  You also didn't mention how happy you would be to pay seeded prices on that salvage.

 

I have no idea what the devs think about your suggestion.  In my observation, they seem to like free markets but adjusted to cut back on market manipulation, so I feel pretty good that they will not give you what you are looking for.  That's why they call this forum Suggestions and Feedback.  You gave your suggestion, and others gave their feedback on it.

 

I think that your suggestion is not helpful for a market unless you want prices to all be at seeded values.  That said, what I think has very very little with what the devs decide to do.  Maybe they are sick of white salvage too and also don't want to use the tips and tricks previously listed in this thread.

 

Drawback makes a lot more sense than tax, yes, thank you for clearing that up.  I agree that there should be a drawback if you want to opt out of salvage, so that's why I gave a few alternate options that made more sense to me, would solve your problem of having too much white and yellow salvage, and would not affect the salvage market.

 

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

15 hours ago, Sovera said:

I'm going to unpack this: You're trolling. I do not say this as a facile insult for someone who said something that I personally disagree with and thus I will ad hominem them. I predict that you typed it serious like but snickering in your room like trolls do when they think they are being smart.

 

None of it makes sense. I will pretend that you are serious (but we both know the truth, won't we?) and answer it.

 

- Players, like me, who lol at the idea of selling things for 100 inf when they make 20-25 millions out of 30 minutes running a Tinpex are deleting their white and yellow salvage. The option to reject it from the P2W is not going to affect your precious Market since we are not selling it there anyway. Players who sell their white salvage at the Market are not going to the P2W to purchase the option to not get salvage so your precious Market will keep on having it. I cringed at the line of 'if you're not selling your white and yellow salvage at the market then you don't deserve ANY salvage'.

- The options to not receive a certain type of inspiration (damage, wakies, greens) does not hinge on having ALL inspirations blocked from a player. This option is already in.

- The option to not receive a certain type of recipe (common, uncommon, rare, very rare) does not hinge on having ALL recipes blocked from a player. This option is already in.

 

 

Conclusion: you are either dumb (less people selling common salvage will increase the prices of the salvage that you are selling since scarcity ups value) or you are trolling, but I prefer to think you are just against the idea and thus trolling.

One or both of us don't know what the term trolling is, and I'm going to assume it's me.  I thought that it was an attempt to evoke a negative reaction, not to put forth an opposing viewpoint, which is exactly what I did.  It seems pretty clear, however,  that you are actually doing exactly what you claim you are not doing -- saying "this as a facile insult for someone who said something that I personally disagree with"

 

I did not say any of the things that you are claiming.  I don't have an opinion on whether or not you deserve any salvage based on whether or not you are selling it on the market.  I never claimed that there was any programming limitations on whether or not it was possible.

 

Listen, like I said, it's clear what you want -- you want all the easy good stuff and you don't want to be bothered with the boring hard stuff.  That's fine--the world is full of people like you  But I don't believe that is conducive for "free" markets for salvage that you don't have any interest in.  That's also fine.  My belief that making salvage all or nothing as a solution to the OP's problem seems pretty healthy to me.  It would keep supply coming in for whites and yellows and would have very little effect on the supply of oranges.

 

I feel pretty confident that my perspective on this and my knowledge of how the AH works jibes with the long-term views of the devs.  And if I'm wrong, shrug, I don't need to call people names to get over it.

 

Good day.

[Zeraphia]

35 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I think that your suggestion is not helpful for a market unless you want prices to all be at seeded values.

This is so hyperbolic... "you want prices to all be at seeded values." This is ridiculous. 

[Snowdaze]

WHY!? WHY is this being debated soooooo hard! Most people wont even use the option, this will not affect market price on white salvage and you know why?? Because if I put up a "Luck Charm" at 250, as soon as ANYONE wanting ANY white salvage is willing to pay more then 250 the market will sell my Luck Charm to them so they can have their "Spell Ink"! That's right ALL THE COMMON SALVAGE IS POOLED!

 

There will be plenty of people like myself who keep selling white salvage at vendor price!

[blayzemaster]

6 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Listen, like I said, it's clear what you want -- you want all the easy good stuff and you don't want to be bothered with the boring hard stuff.  That's fine--the world is full of people like you  But I don't believe that is conducive for "free" markets for salvage that you don't have any interest in.  That's also fine.  My belief that making salvage all or nothing as a solution to the OP's problem seems pretty healthy to me.  It would keep supply coming in for whites and yellows and would have very little effect on the supply of oranges.

How on earth is wanting to disable white salvage drops avoiding "boring hard stuff"?

 

Nor am I clear that "boring hard stuff" is something that should be kept for a leisure video game. Hard stuff, maybe. But it should be engaging, not boring.

Edited May 20, 2020 by blayzemaster

[Sovera]

9 minutes ago, blayzemaster said:

How on earth is wanting to disable white salvage drops avoiding "boring hard stuff"?

 

Nor am I clear that "boring hard stuff" is something that should be kept for a leisure video game. Hard stuff, maybe. But it should be engaging, not boring.

Shh, don't feed the troll. You need to let them starve so that they will get bored and move on.

[Zeraphia]

On 5/20/2020 at 5:17 AM, Sovera said:

Shh, don't feed the troll. You need to let them starve so that they will get bored and move on.

[MunkiLord]

I still think the best option is to make it super easy and convenient to dump all salvage of a chosen tier on the market at a price chosen by the player. Every once in a while I'll click a button or right click option to post all white salvage for X influence. Or even sell all salvage at once if that's what I want, with each tier going for a price I have preset. So press this one button and every piece is on the market.

 

It would be a win-win. Sure the people wanting to turn it off completely aren't getting exactly what they want, but a few button clicks seems like a good compromise that will also add more supply for other players.

[Zeraphia]

54 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

I still think the best option is to make it super easy and convenient to dump all salvage of a chosen tier on the market at a price chosen by the player. Every once in a while I'll click a button or right click option to post all white salvage for X influence. Or even sell all salvage at once if that's what I want, with each tier going for a price I have preset. So press this one button and every piece is on the market.

 

It would be a win-win. Sure the people wanting to turn it off completely aren't getting exactly what they want, but a few button clicks seems like a good compromise that will also add more supply for other players.

I agree, but that is never-seen-before technology. 

 

What we HAVE seen is a way to reject recipes/inspirations, there is no "auto-sell" feature for them. Doing so would be unprecedented, hence why I didn't recommend that as the option. 

[Sovera]

41 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

I still think the best option is to make it super easy and convenient to dump all salvage of a chosen tier on the market at a price chosen by the player. Every once in a while I'll click a button or right click option to post all white salvage for X influence. Or even sell all salvage at once if that's what I want, with each tier going for a price I have preset. So press this one button and every piece is on the market.

 

It would be a win-win. Sure the people wanting to turn it off completely aren't getting exactly what they want, but a few button clicks seems like a good compromise that will also add more supply for other players.

Dude, I read ya. But we are still dumping 300-400 converters ten at a time to the AH. If that hasn't been changed since Live what are the odds of getting that technical trickery you speak of?

 

This is why I LOVE games with addons. We do not depend on a dev's whim and time. There is a need? A player steps in. No minimap in ESO? Addon. Crafting 20-30 items one a time having to click 20-30 times after each crafting bar has finished loading? Addons. Tons of useless vendor trash cluttering the inventory and players expected to inspect their inventory each time they are selling? Addons.

 

The stuff you are mentioning? Addons. Selling 300-400 converters 10 at a time? Addons.

[America's Angel]

+1