Did I find her? Is this Mace/Bio the character I've been seeking?

[Bill Z Bubba]

Hit 50, built but not +5ed and she had a 2:42 pylon time. With no incarnate powers. That's a better time than my fully T4ed tricked out all to hell and back claws/sr scrapper.

Decided to go through all my other 50s and email her whatever emp merits I can scrounge up. I want to see what she does with T4ed Musc, Degen and Assault Core.

I'll update this thread with numbers as I get them. So far, at vet lvl 1, she'll have a T3ed alpha. Make that vet lvl 1 with a T4 alpha musc core.

 

Oh yea... she's an auto mechanic with a magic pipe wrench.

 

Ran another pylon after T4ing Musc... 2:29.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Bill Z Bubba]

At vet lvl 2, I got degen T4ed. 1:52 pylon right after that.

[Hew]

What does the build look like?

[Bill Z Bubba]

Edited. I'm using a chance for -res instead of a chance for +rec in Shatter. One problem I do have with this build and Bio armor in general is how often it gets debuffed, especially with tohit debuffs.

 

Another Edit: At vet lvl 5, I'm now out of the emps I stole and down to a couple threads, but I'm +3 with T3 Lore and Destiny, T1 Judgement and T4 Interface and Alpha.

 

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|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Edited August 22, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Hew]

Hmm, interesting! Here is my take that I am trying to slot out. You have ~100 more rech, but I have a vastly different profile for defenses, regen, recov (I set siphon to 1 target to match siphon in your build). The only thing I have on is offensive mode. You may want to look at your build with offensive mode toggled (if that is how you roll :D), as it will significantly change your actual final stats for resists et al. I have pretty high end costs, but that comes at different levels with varying support from  parasitic aura. When I turn agility core paragon on, things get a little... crazy. 😄 (edit: im running two end +heal procs, which are pretty handy)

(without core paragon)

 

Both pastes are in offensive mode.

 

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1511&c=724&a=1448&f=HEX&dc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

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Hew

[Bill Z Bubba]

I bounce adaptations as needed and yes, I'm goin full recharge build. ST chain is clobber, jawbreaker, shatter repeat.

At vet lvl 6 now, stole more emps, T4ed assault core. Averaging 1:45 pylon times with it enabled.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Waltzed into a max diff master run settings ITF... it didn't go well. My AV killing time is glorious... my survivability sucks ass. When you're sitting at -50% defense, the two absorbs and 1 heal just can't keep up. Ageless with the +DDR might help. But as hopeful as I was... even this may not be the combo I seek.

 

Pondering SR/Mace tank now.

[Scoop]

I don't mean to derail your thread ,but I was wondering if you could help me. I just made a WM/SR scrapper and after seeing your time of 2:42 decided to try and see what my time would be. 

I should mention I only have the Cardiac Incarnate slotted. But my time was well over 6 minutes. Now I have never done this pylon thing before so maybe I am not doing something right. 

My attack chain is pretty much unbroken,except when I hit Build Up and twice I clicked Practiced Brawler. Am running Focused Accuracy and I didn't notice any misses.

So is the difference in times,from Bio giving a damage boost or debuffing the pylon?

 

[Hew]

56 minutes ago, Scoop said:

 

So is the difference in times,from Bio giving a damage boost or debuffing the pylon?

 

Probably a few things. Off gets you +tohit, you get -res, and +dam. That is a lot of bits that help focus fire on hard targets. When you start popping different clickies, that adds on to the badness for your target.

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 hours ago, Scoop said:

I don't mean to derail your thread ,but I was wondering if you could help me. I just made a WM/SR scrapper and after seeing your time of 2:42 decided to try and see what my time would be. 

I should mention I only have the Cardiac Incarnate slotted. But my time was well over 6 minutes. Now I have never done this pylon thing before so maybe I am not doing something right. 

My attack chain is pretty much unbroken,except when I hit Build Up and twice I clicked Practiced Brawler. Am running Focused Accuracy and I didn't notice any misses.

So is the difference in times,from Bio giving a damage boost or debuffing the pylon?

 

Yea, Bio has a lot to do with it as @Hewjust stated.

My mace attack chain is, as mentioned, clobber, jawbreaker, shatter repeat. Those three are the highest DPA attacks in the set, so if you're using anything else, your overall DPS won't be as high.

 

Practiced Brawler is absolutely cutting into your time, but that just can't be helped. On my claws/sr(s), I keep hasten on auto and it's perma or dang near, so with its 2 minute duration, I use that as my guide to manually fire off PB so as not to waste end/time stacking it. The problem with just ignoring PB while pylon testing is that if you get hit, you're probably going to get knocked back, thus losing more time.

 

Other possible differences will be the incarnate choices and they DO make a difference. I go with Alpha Musculature Core, Interface Degenerative Core and Hybrid Assault Core. If you've got all three of those at T4, and the tightest chain you can get (which, granted, needs a ton of recharge but as you're SR, you should be able to get damn close to the 112% global recharge needed on top of hasten's 70% to get it perma,) then I'd honestly be surprised if you didn't end up under 3 mins, which is my claws/sr scrapper's average time. And yes, I DO always test with assault core toggled on to begin the test run because I always have it ready for hard target fights.

 

Total side note: I was amused that by pulling out my T4 Core Demon Lore pets (generally a no-no when testing pylons) BZB's time dropped from 3 mins to 1.25 mins.

[Sovera]

On 8/22/2020 at 8:30 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

Waltzed into a max diff master run settings ITF... it didn't go well. My AV killing time is glorious... my survivability sucks ass. When you're sitting at -50% defense, the two absorbs and 1 heal just can't keep up. Ageless with the +DDR might help. But as hopeful as I was... even this may not be the combo I seek.

 

Pondering SR/Mace tank now.

You wouldn't have like Romulus and the fluffies either. On my Bio Scrappers it's auto-hit, auto-hit, use Ablating, auto-hit-auto-hit, use DNA Siphon, auto-hit-auto-hit, start using greens while waiting for Ablating to recharge. At some point the greens end -_-

 

Same with the seafood squad as they ablate the elemental defenses and leave us with the 10-20% Negative resists to handle their damage.

 

As I only played Bio for a while the ITF was my big Achille's heel and I used to be astounded at seeing people soloing the cysts.

[Bill Z Bubba]

8 hours ago, Sovera said:

You wouldn't have like Romulus and the fluffies either. On my Bio Scrappers it's auto-hit, auto-hit, use Ablating, auto-hit-auto-hit, use DNA Siphon, auto-hit-auto-hit, start using greens while waiting for Ablating to recharge. At some point the greens end -_-

 

Same with the seafood squad as they ablate the elemental defenses and leave us with the 10-20% Negative resists to handle their damage.

 

As I only played Bio for a while the ITF was my big Achille's heel and I used to be astounded at seeing people soloing the cysts.

Pondering that, I see it as a problem with the game's design.

We're given these mixed powersets with damres to SL and defense to FCEN and then put into situations where SL using foes cause massive defense debuffs to ALL types instead of just SL so they cut us and that makes it easier for the Khels to lay the smackdown on you because you end up with zero mitigation to nrg/negnrg.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[ClawsandEffect]

My StJ/Bio scrapper does pretty well in most things. But I haven't attempted a max diff MoITF solo run. 

 

Bill, you know you're insane, right? 

[Doomrider]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Pondering that, I see it as a problem with the game's design.

We're given these mixed powersets with damres to SL and defense to FCEN and then put into situations where SL using foes cause massive defense debuffs to ALL types instead of just SL so they cut us and that makes it easier for the Khels to lay the smackdown on you because you end up with zero mitigation to nrg/negnrg.

You're feeling the sting (or reality) of the sacrificial defenses that come with Pylon Armor. The energy hole is real in Bio, and one of the places it's sorely evident is the Bright Novas on the ITF (-def and energy damage to boot, ouch).
It's a great set for getting top notch pylon numbers, but it just doesn't hold up when -def debuffs are in play as you've noted (and I agree). Bio didn't live up to the hype when I finally got around to trying it either.

If I was gonna have paper defenses, I'd rather have them with more robust resistances to fall back on when the inevitable -def debuffs come knocking. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Doomrider

[Bill Z Bubba]

52 minutes ago, ClawsandEffect said:

Bill, you know you're insane, right? 

This hasn't been in question for several decades.

 

[Tsuko]

as i repeat since years now (dam i m old :x), Bio armor scrappers are the lightweight champions 😛 even able to "main tank" tf in low notoriety tf but for max dif, without support (def buff) you can barely stay in mélée range without gimping your dps by slotting full def or res, making you a average bad blapper.

[Scoop]

So got my Incarnates to T4 and fixed my knockback with some Karma so I didn't have to use Practiced Brawler. And using the attack chain you mentioned I was able to get just under 3 minutes.

Thanks for the help.

[ninja surprise]

On 8/22/2020 at 1:30 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

Waltzed into a max diff master run settings ITF... it didn't go well. My AV killing time is glorious... my survivability sucks ass. When you're sitting at -50% defense, the two absorbs and 1 heal just can't keep up. Ageless with the +DDR might help. But as hopeful as I was... even this may not be the combo I seek.

 

Pondering SR/Mace tank now.

I keep trying to like Bio, but without getting one to big Vet levels with every unique set, I just can't get used to how squishy it feels.  I keep seeing other Bio toons do crazy stuff but I'd rather roll more alts than put every last bit of inf and time into a single toon that won't be much better than cheaper builds.

 

I've tried it with Street Justice, Stone Melee, Super Strength, Dual Pistols (Sentinel) and currently have a Bio/Dark Melee Tank at 48 after catching some good Weekly TFs and Rikti Raids for lots of quick XP. I think Dark Melee is my favorite pair with it with Soul Drain buffing the damage aura and Shadow Maul with the new 120 degree arc hitting practically everything in front of me on a quick recharge.

 

It's great when I have lots of external buffs, but then I'm caught by surprise when unbuffed and can barely last long enough for self-heal to recharge.

[Hew]

7 hours ago, ninja surprise said:

I keep trying to like Bio, but without getting one to big Vet levels with every unique set, I just can't get used to how squishy it feels.  I keep seeing other Bio toons do crazy stuff but I'd rather roll more alts than put every last bit of inf and time into a single toon that won't be much better than cheaper builds.

 

 

interesting. i am kind of at the same place. i can get more mileage for toughness, flexibility for the same inf, but across several alts (partial or frankenslotting). I really love how much smackdown my mace/bio scrapper does, but yeah, i dunno. outside of a team, i do feel really squishy, and chunks of what i have to do to next-level the char really needs some significant investment. 😕 

 

 

[Crowcus Pocus]

WM/Dark can do pretty things. Sweet damage, stun stacking, phenomenal heal/proc mule. Not to mention you'd be able to cap negative resistances with ease if you wanted to.

[Bill Z Bubba]

I'm findin the same things. Bio is awesome for +dam, but even in defensive mode, it's just not very tough.

Looks like Inv/WM may be my next experiment.

@FalseyI never could get the hang of dark. Always wanted to because of how many concepts I have rolling around in my head, but it and I have never meshed.

[Gobbledigook]

7 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I'm findin the same things. Bio is awesome for +dam, but even in defensive mode, it's just not very tough.

Looks like Inv/WM may be my next experiment.

@FalseyI never could get the hang of dark. Always wanted to because of how many concepts I have rolling around in my head, but it and I have never meshed.

What about Shield/WM? Extra damage and Shield is a tough nut to crack most of the time.

[Bill Z Bubba]

27 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

What about Shield/WM? Extra damage and Shield is a tough nut to crack most of the time.

Got one at 50 that needs a full rebuild. I do like the extra damage, I do NOT like having to doublestack the mez protection for decent DDR. I'll revisit ol Battle Barrier shortly and see what's what.

 

Edit: But I can take what I learned from the wm/bio scrap, so there's that.

 

Honestly wondering if a brute is the better route for that combo. More +end available.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Sovera]

Want to try a Katana/Rad, Bill? After my disappointment at Divine Avalanche not stacking for Tankers I tried my hand at making a build for a Scrapper. In theory it would work for /Bio but DA will not cover the E/N hole in the resistances nor add defense to it either.

 

Rad Armor isn't very offensive oriented for me though you can proc out Radiation Therapy for some extra oomph.

 

It ended with some decent numbers if I may tout my own horn:

 

- 70% to Smash, Lethal, Negative, Energy and Toxic. Only 28% for Psi. Built on purpose to use Barrier for the last 5%. It's not a Tanker's 90%, but Radiation Therapy every 20 seconds is Dark Regen's little cousin and Particle Shielding every 37 seconds.

- 47% defense to Lethal and 45% to Melee with one tap of DA. 82% Lethal and 80% to Melee with three stacks of DA. Not accounting for Barrier adding another 5%.

- 129 seconds Hasten, with a FF proc and Beta Decay to further help it.

- A better way to apply the -res procs instead of relying on a toggle.

- 4.15 EPS not accounting for both Performance Shifters and the Panaceia. Not that it matters much with RT.

- Only 61% slow resistance. Slotting could be shuffled a bit. One slot in Stamina and use three Synapses. Use two Avalanche in Flashing Steel, etc.

- 455% regen? Not a huge deal, but hey, 28 HP per tick.

 

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Katana
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Armor
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Gambler's Cut -- TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(A), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx(3), TchofDth-Dam%(3), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), TchofDth-Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Alpha Barrier -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(7), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(9), GldArm-3defTpProc(9)
Level 2: Flashing Steel -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), FuroftheG-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(13), Erd-%Dam(13)
Level 4: Proton Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(19), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 6: Build Up -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(21), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(21), GssSynFr--Build%(23)
Level 8: Divine Avalanche -- Hct-Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), GldStr-Acc/End/Rech(25), TchofDth-Dam%(25), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(27), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(27)
Level 10: Fallout Shelter -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(29), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 14: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(15), Rct-ResDam%(31), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(31)
Level 16: Radiation Therapy -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(33), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(33), Pnc-Heal/+End(33), Pnc-Heal(34)
Level 18: The Lotus Drops -- ScrDrv-Acc/Rchg(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(34), ScrDrv-Dam%(34), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(36), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(36), SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(36)
Level 20: Beta Decay -- CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(A), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 22: Fly -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Soaring Dragon -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Hct-Acc/Rchg(37), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Hct-Dam%(39), FrcFdb-Rechg%(39)
Level 28: Particle Shielding -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(39), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(40), Prv-Heal/Rchg(40), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(40), Prv-Absorb%(42)
Level 30: Gamma Boost -- SynSck-EndMod(A), SynSck-Dam/Rech(42), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(42), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(43), SynSck-Dam/Acc/End(43), SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(43)
Level 32: Golden Dragonfly -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), AchHee-ResDeb%(45), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(46), Arm-Dam%(46)
Level 35: Focused Accuracy -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(A)
Level 38: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 41: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Tough -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(48), TtnCtn-ResDam(48), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 47: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(15)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 1: Quick Form
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
------------

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Sovera

[Sovera]

I'm just not sure if the damage won't be too low without a secondary to push things. If it does 3 minute times then that's a Tanker's time.