Confirmed Source: IO Massive Negative Value Bug

[Sir Myshkin]

This is something that I've only encountered exclusively playing Radiation Armor/Super Strength/Soul Mastery Tanker, set as a Hero, and primarily noticed post-50. All Majority of IO's in the build are Attuned. I am not 100% certain that the core of the bug is entirely associated with IO's specifically.

 

Current Experience: Mass Stat Crash to all values into the negative floor value for Recharge, Damage, Defense, Resistance for sure. Occurs randomly upon exiting a mission or loading into a new zone. Has also occurred within both an instance standard mission, and an AE mission. Notably I am inclined to believe this is not a graphic glitch, but an actual stat glitch as it has resulted in quick (nearly instant) defeat of my character in combat (side effect of being a Tanker in +4 content). I am unable to get the combat attributes window open fast enough to see what all stats are actually impacted as it only blips for two seconds, I am currently assuming it is everything excluding HP as my character is not going into a defeated state because of any drops. After just two seconds, the majority of stats refresh and a core one (that I can get to fast enough) appears to be Psionic Resistances which persists for an additional two seconds.

 

I was able to grab this screenshot:

 

For the record, this bug occurs outside the window of any Rage crash, and also while there is no active Rage. Screen shot clearly indicates -Effect is sourcing from specific IO's within the build. If I can manage to capture anything further I will update accordingly.

 

Has anyone else run into this? This is a 'first' among any of my characters for me.

 

Update: Managed to grab this in anticipation of zone loading now...

 

Update 09/01/20:

While I didn't see a consistency before, I am now finally finding one. When Rage crashes each of the following IO's reports an extreme -Negative% value during zone load (and also during circumstantial effects within a mission I can't validate, but have seen tied to resurrection effects for sure): Reactive Defenses +3% Res, Aegis +Status/Psi Res, Impervium +Psi Res. I have not seen any other Unique or "Singular Bonus Specific IO" flag the event across the build which has me speculating that the effect is tied to the -Damage component of the Rage crash based on how the game is coded for Damage and Damage Resistance stats (linked effects). Testing it now I can continually refresh the effect during the Rage crash indefinitely up to the point my character spends "ten seconds" on a given map, of which I did record if a dev wants to see it in action; lasts for 40/s in total bouncing zone > base > zone > base > zone

 

If this is in-fact a Rage-tied issue, this effect should be repeatable on any Super Strength character which would need testing. Others have mentioned seeing something like this occur, but not with recollection (or stated) to the specific builds, so may not be Rage-exclusive.

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Sir Myshkin
Update on Source, Changed Title

[Parabola]

Yeah I've noticed this too. I just assumed it was a reporting glitch due to the zoning refresh. I couldn't tell you what characters it was on but I think more than one. Certainly wasn't anything to do with rage crashes or the like.

[Sir Myshkin]

Yeah I've been chasing it for a couple of weeks now, the above was the first screen clip I was able to pull up fast enough to capture what might be causing it. Given I've experienced it in-combat a couple of times now I'm a lot more attentive on trying to figure it out because it's become a survival issue.

[Bopper]

Can you post your build? Could be useful to know what powers and what enhancements could be misbehaving. It might be a huge bother, but you could try to leave open your combat attributes and also monitor other attributes. If you notice the glitch, try to hit print screen quickly. The other option could be to record your game play, but that will be burdensome unless you know how to replicate it. 

[Sir Myshkin]

20 hours ago, Bopper said:

Can you post your build? Could be useful to know what powers and what enhancements could be misbehaving. It might be a huge bother, but you could try to leave open your combat attributes and also monitor other attributes. If you notice the glitch, try to hit print screen quickly. The other option could be to record your game play, but that will be burdensome unless you know how to replicate it. 

The build has always been out in the wild. The last couple of days I've been intentionally popping open the combat attributes on loading (since that seems to be the most common time I catch it), which is how I captured the most recent two updated shots which happened upon exiting a mission, and then another after popping into a base. I tried rather aggressively to get it to pop on zone load by hopping (quite literally, and aggressively) all over Paragon last night and never managed to catch it again past justthe previous two occurrences out of ~40ish attempts. Even tried cycling an assortment of powers, did a couple more missions, nadda. It's vastly either too random, which is irritating, or is tied to a specific event of abilities being stacked, which is even more frustrating.

 

What I've seen so far is it appears to be impacting Unique IO's slash IO's that provide a singular global bonus (Impervium, Aegis, +Psi Res, and Reactive's +3%) yet not all of them (Shield Wall, as a visible example).

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Radiation Armor
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: zn_Experimentation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Gamma Boost -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), PrfShf-End%(7)
Level 1: Jab -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(7)
Level 2: Alpha Barrier -- TtnCtn-ResDam(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(9), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(11), ImpArm-ResPsi(17)
Level 4: Boxing -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Hct-Acc/Rchg(13), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Hct-Dam%(15), Mk'Bit-Dam%(15)
Level 6: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Proton Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(37), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(37), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40), UnbGrd-Max HP%(43)
Level 10: Toxic Dart -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(45)
Level 12: Speed of Sound -- WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(A), WntGif-ResSlow(29)
Level 14: Tough -- HO:Ribo(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(17), Ags-Psi/Status(19)
Level 16: Cross Punch -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), ScrDrv-Dam%(21), Obl-%Dam(21), FrcFdb-Rechg%(23), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(23)
Level 18: Particle Shielding -- Prv-Heal/Rchg(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(50)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), UnbCns-Dam%(25), GldNet-Dam%(27), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(27), FrcFdb-Rechg%(29)
Level 22: Adrenal Booster -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 24: Beta Decay -- EndRdx-I(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(31)
Level 26: Radiation Therapy -- Prv-Heal/Rchg(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(34), Obl-%Dam(34), ScrDrv-Dam%(34), Erd-%Dam(36), TchoftheN-%Dam(36)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31), GssSynFr--Build%(33)
Level 30: Fallout Shelter -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam(45), ImpArm-ResPsi(46)
Level 32: Meltdown -- UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(33), ImpArm-ResPsi(48)
Level 35: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Arm-Dam%(39), Obl-%Dam(40), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40)
Level 41: Gloom -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Apc-Dam%(42), Dcm-Build%(43), CldSns-%Dam(43)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(A), CldSns-%Dam(45), PstBls-Dam%(46), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(46)
Level 47: Darkest Night -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(50), Rct-ResDam%(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(48)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PwrTrns-EndMod(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(48)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
------------

 

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Edited August 25, 2020 by Sir Myshkin

[Grouchybeast]

Does anything show up in the combat log when this happens?

[Veracor]

Out of curiosity/boredom I rolled your build on the Aeon server and toggled everything up to see if I could replicate this, but couldn't.  I did about 150 zone changes between different zones (with stats monitored and combat attributes open) but was unable to get the problem to happen a single time, trying common conditions like having Beta Decay affecting an enemy when zoning, Jaunting or having Hasten active, and I tried entering and exiting several radio missions.  I had everything attuned with my tests; maybe I got unlucky, or maybe it's related to server load.  The only incarnate I equipped was the Alpha since nothing else was specified.  Hybrids do have passive components though: which are you using?

[Sir Myshkin]

On 8/26/2020 at 5:38 PM, Grouchybeast said:

Does anything show up in the combat log when this happens?

Not that I've caught, no, and I tend to have my combat logs separated into multiple purposes for easier sifting.

 

On 8/29/2020 at 3:29 AM, Veracor said:

Out of curiosity/boredom I rolled your build on the Aeon server and toggled everything up to see if I could replicate this, but couldn't.  I did about 150 zone changes between different zones (with stats monitored and combat attributes open) but was unable to get the problem to happen a single time, trying common conditions like having Beta Decay affecting an enemy when zoning, Jaunting or having Hasten active, and I tried entering and exiting several radio missions.  I had everything attuned with my tests; maybe I got unlucky, or maybe it's related to server load.  The only incarnate I equipped was the Alpha since nothing else was specified.  Hybrids do have passive components though: which are you using?

Such is the randomness of this issue. I can't find a method to replicate it from a character perspective. I've also had a couple others recently mention to me experiencing this issue on their own characters, one another Rad/SS, the other not.

 

I went through several attempts at a solo MoITF in the last two days and had the bug hit me on Mission 2. I did another pressure test on my build earlier today and hit the P2W "Return To Battle" resurrect and the event occurred on resurrection, I re-planted rather quickly so it was impossible to grab anything other than visually seeing the -### all over my combat attributes.

 

Given that I've changed some of my Incarnates, all of the following currently qualify: T4 Alpha Musculature Core and Cardiac Core, Interface Degenerative Radial, Destiny Ageless Core, T3 Hybrid Assault (left tree radial) and Lore Carnies (left tree radial).

[Sir Myshkin]

May have found a trigger, updated the main post accordingly. Able to repeat the effect when zoning during a Rage crash, specifically looks to be (as confirmed by this one build at least) Aegis +Status/Psi Res, Impervium +Psi Res, and Reactive +3% Res causing the negative stat value. Now having been able to repeat it on-command, I haven't seen any other values report back negative anywhere else across the character's combat attributes.

 

@Veracor if you still have that test character, try heading to a spot you can quickly jump zones back and forth (thinking TUNNEL or the RWZ Portals, honestly it works better with base-porting macro for speed of click - click with no pop up), Start stacking Rage and when it crashes, watch the Resistance stats for the above and keep zoning back and forth. Reactive IO goes negative for about two seconds, the other two stay for 4ish. When I popped zone to zone, I could watch Reactive's effect drop, zone, and regain the effect on load so long as the Rage Crash was in effect.

 

@Bopper Figured I'd send you a chime as well to see if you can replicate off this too since you have a Granite/SS still correct? Curious if you can get it with Rage crash, and also curious if you have an impact with Granite's -Dam aspect. If it's percentage effected, curious if it drops just a tad or would otherwise be noticeable assuming you have those IO's in your build (or could pop them in for testing)?

[Parabola]

Good work @Sir Myshkin. As I said before I've definitely seen this but I think it has been only while zoning in my case. I don't have records but I have been playing a rad/dark tank exclusively recently and I have all the IO's you mention in my build. So not tied to rage crashes exclusively but perhaps something to do with those IO's going haywire when a global refresh of the characters values happens? I'll jump on later and see if I can force it to happen.

[Veracor]

Okay I've found what the bug is, or at least have a pretty solid guess on what it is.  These specific IO globals are likely referencing the wrong field or function: Aegis, Impervium Armor, Reactive Defenses.  Shield Wall's global +res works fine.  The bug has nothing to do with Rage or powersets.

 

So per your observation I used the Rage crash + zoning, and was able to get it to happen 10 out of 10 times on the test server.  I wondered if maybe it's related to a toggle or auto power?  So I made a second build that didn't take any autos, turned on only Rage and sat next to the exit waiting for it to crash.  I slotted a single attuned Impervium Armor global during this wait period, and I noticed that when I did so, the combat attributes window showed me gaining 10.8% Psionic Resistance instead of 6%.  It sat like this for four seconds before going back to 6%.  The negative number bug replicated on this one-enhancement build with the following Rage crash, confirming it wasn't related to IO set bonuses, toggles, or auto powers.

 

 

 

10.8% instead of 6% is an increase of 80%, which is the damage boost given by Rage.  Now that's suspicious.  So I looked back at the screenshots of the reductions and the reduction of -593.4% Psionic Resistance corresponds exactly with the -9990% damage of Rage's crash (9890% here because it's negating its own value).  So "+#%% strength to all damage" in the power window is multiplying the +res bonuses here.  I then checked to see if the other +res globals were behaving this way, and found instead I could just slot Aegis and Reactive Defenses normally and then zone with Rage active, and that also gave +80% increase to them for that brief duration.  Shield Wall stayed a static +5% during all tests, working as intended.

 

 

 

So is this a Rage problem or a problem with these three enhancements?  To check, I rolled a Scrapper and slotted the Impervium Armor global during Battle Axe's Build Up effect, and got twice the Psionic Resistance out of it for its 4 seconds before it went back to 6% (and Scrapper Build Up gives +100% damage).  I then rolled a Blaster and slotted Impervium Armor during Archery's Aim effect, and got a 62.5% increase to it just like the power.  So it's not just Rage, it's all damage increases/reductions (or at least these common ones).

 

(Scrapper, +100% dmg)

 

(Blaster, +62.5% dmg)

(Neither of these characters had incarnates slotted)

 

My conclusion is that the values we are seeing is related to how these IOs were made, and are being scaled wrongly by bonuses to our own damage.  I don't know exactly what went wrong in the code -- my guess is that they're referencing the wrong field and then getting fixed by a correctional/refresh function on the server and that we're just seeing the IO-specific refresh timer for it... or maybe the IOs have a function for initial effect and a seperate function for refreshed effect, and the initial one is bugged?  Regardless of the cause, if the code for the global enhancements for Aegis, Impervium Armor, and Reactive Defenses were simply changed to do it however Shield Wall's global is doing it, that would likely fix the problem because I never saw Shield Wall's bonus bug out once when testing.

 

I find it rather amusing that this has actually been happening all the time for many players and we just never noticed or cared until Rage's huge negative crash value made it obvious.  It also explains some of that bounciness in the Damage Resistance category of Combat Attributes that we're accustomed to seeing.

 

Also side note @Sir Myshkin Elmyder and I, as well as several of the speedrunners on non-Everlasting servers, have soloed MLTF if you want any details or funny stories on that.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Veracor

[Bopper]

Great work @Sir Myshkin and @Veracor. I'm sorry I'm late to the party, but it looks like you guys figured things out. I looked up what I could to see why Shield Wall plays nice and Aegis, Impervium and Reactive don't. I dug into the set bonus (which does the resistance buff) and I noticed although all 4 of these Set Bonuses are marked as "IgnoreStrength true", only Shield Wall also provides a Flag to the Effect that shows "IgnoreStrength".

 

I would normally think the overarching flag provided by the Set Bonus would cover everything, but perhaps not. This is all a total shot in the dark, but my guess is to have a Dev take a look at the Flags for the Effect and add in the IgnoreStrength flag to see if it fixes the issue (and hopefully not add any more issues as a consequence).

[Sir Myshkin]

5 hours ago, Veracor said:

I find it rather amusing that this has actually been happening all the time for many players and we just never noticed or cared until Rage's huge negative crash value made it obvious.  It also explains some of that bounciness in the Damage Resistance category of Combat Attributes that we're accustomed to seeing.

Thank you for taking it a step further in your approach. I didn't have time to mess with it any longer last night, but you were seeing what I was speculating (as Bopper said, missing 'IgnoreStrength' flag, I just didn't know what the flag was called 😄 ). Rage definitely made [the bug] blatantly obvious instead of just mildly odd (and occasionally inconvenient), but we know the who, what, where, and why, now we just need a fix. I shall forward it accordingly.

 

Also, funny stories are always welcomed.

[Tsuko]

This bug is ...

 

Ty for finding this.