Make Scrapper Taunts Ranged Attacks (too.) Share your thoughts!

[Sakura Tenshi]

So, there's very little reason to take Scrapper Provoke, this much has been established, but we can't really get rid of the taunt due to cottage rule (which should be respected, also I must remind the cottage rule means 'you can't change what sets can be slotted into the power as it will make the guy who put a purple set in very angry'), but I had an idea from tanking in Final Fantasy XIV: just throw some damage onto it! Make Scrapper taunts into reliable 'ranged' attacks, and they don't even need to be strictly ranged attacks either! For some examples:

 

• Katana: Calling the Wolf > Air Slash

The katana user now does Sting of the Wasp animation which releases a wave like Focus from Claws that strikes the target, taunting them and dealing moderate lethal damage.

• Broadsword: Confront > forward dodge heavy Lunging Thrust

The broadsword wielder takes the Stalker's Assassin's Slash quick animation starting stance and then teleports to the target completing the attack with moderate lethal damage and thrust animation

 

And since we have targeted teleports that will drop us off in front of a foe, why can't we have ones where we don't need to pick where we drop our opponents off and set them in front of us? in otherwords: pull-to attacks. For example:

• Electric Melee: Confront > Magnetic Lash

Electricity sparks in the user's hand and they do the 'siphon life' animation from dark melee, the target is then 'pulled' (actually teleported) to the user, possibly using one of the outline bodies as afterimages to show them 'rushing' towards you while leaving a trail of electric sparks in the air, causing knockdown (no damage this time, sorry) and taunting them on top of teleporting them to your feet.

 

So that's some of my proposals, any thoughts from all of you on if you'd like to see this or even your own ideas on what other melee sets could get for a ranged attack taunt/gap closer taunt/pull taunt?

Edited August 27, 2020 by Sakura Tenshi

[MTeague]

Not sure on Magnetic Lash teleporting foes, UNLESS, a change is made to the pool power version of Teleport Foe to make that something that's actually reliable and works well on Bosses as well.

An Electric Melee taunt shouldn't be able to magically Teleport Foe that the pool power by the same name cannot affect.

[Sakura Tenshi]

11 hours ago, MTeague said:

Not sure on Magnetic Lash teleporting foes, UNLESS, a change is made to the pool power version of Teleport Foe to make that something that's actually reliable and works well on Bosses as well.

An Electric Melee taunt shouldn't be able to magically Teleport Foe that the pool power by the same name cannot affect.

I kind of get what you mean, but since this wasn't a teleport pool revamp suggestion, I sort of left it out, plus I could see an argument made that since a scrapper is a melee class, you'd want enemies right in your face, since teleport foe can be grabby by anyone, even non-melee fighters like controllers and so forth, it might be a good idea to give the option to choose a bit where you dump a foe, like say on top of a tar patch or a bunch of caltrops. I do agree teleporting foes needs to work on bosses and higher level foes as well, but the concept of such a change isn't supposed to be 'magical teleportation', it's only teleportation within the game mechanics, the idea was more electric melee using electro magnetism to pull an enemy in.

[Zeraphia]

I think for certain themes this would be wonderful and experimental. +1 Also many modern heroes and villains that fall into the "Scrapper" category (Wonder Woman, Psylocke, etc.) typically have some sort of "ranged" ability. 

 

[Razor Cure]

I always thought the Scapper taunts should function like a small self buff/ enemy debuff, as you psyche yourself up to challenge one big target. Even if it was just 5% to hit, 15 damage, it would be something, and have it scale of the targets class, so taunting a minion gives next to no bonus, but a Boss gives more.

[Vanden]

Ehhh, I kinda like getting powers that are easy skips, more room for cool pool powers. Plus, if every Scrapper had a ranged attack in the primary, that devalues the APP ranged attacks.

[Greycat]

I'd be... cautious with adding abilities (like the broadsword example.) For instance, someone who's trying to keep a Natural character would probably be *irked* to suddenly be teleporting around (or teleporting people.)

 

As far as debuffs - and I just took a peek at my dark/dark's Confront - it does already do a -75% range for 12 seconds, which should help draw even ranged enemies to you. I don't know that scrappers need a damage *buff,* but a small set-thematic debuff wouldn't hurt. I wouldn't really even argue about a bit of damage (it would help the taunt function,) though the issue there is "do brutes and tanks get that as well?" (Especially tanks?) (Extra mention here for Dwarf form taunts, as well.)

 

There's already an IO that does a little damage (chance of, at least,) and I don't think anyone calls that gamebreaking, either, so I think that would be safe, in any case.

[Haijinx]

Not needed.

 

The only Scrappers to get the taunt on are the sword ones for the cool animations.

[Sakura Tenshi]

13 hours ago, Greycat said:

I'd be... cautious with adding abilities (like the broadsword example.) For instance, someone who's trying to keep a Natural character would probably be *irked* to suddenly be teleporting around (or teleporting people.)

 As I explained earlier the broadsword lunging charge isn’t a “magical” teleportation anymore than shield charge is. It’s supposed to be a rapid charge rush attack that uses teleport due to limits of the game’s engine. Your other counter arguments are valid but not that particular one. I will admit that the katana example I gave was directly supernatural, but in the end all three ideas were only examples.

 

13 hours ago, Vanden said:

Ehhh, I kinda like getting powers that are easy skips, more room for cool pool powers. Plus, if every Scrapper had a ranged attack in the primary, that devalues the APP ranged attacks.

 My issue with APP attacks is that they too can often be theme breaking due to a lack of variety, and as mentioned these need not all be actual ranged attacks but can incorporate foe pulls and gap closers as well.

[ABlueThingy]

Frankly I never liked having the Taunt and (most)Build Up powers be identical across the melee power sets. I'd rather see something more thematic and unique in each set.  It just seems like a waste of potential.  Maybe make the Scrapper taunts into a unique per power set "Challenge" buff/debuff power. It taunts and gives a stronger effect the higher rank the enemy is.  Maybe give the basic AoE taunt to brutes/tanks as an inherent power and convert their existing taunts into unique debuffs.

 

That was my big issue with Stalkers honestly. They have the same issue but worse.  They all have to have a build up, a hide and a placate that are all identical.  They even chunked the unique traits to give them a more reliable build up in some cases.  If the AT really and truly needs every one of those powers and they're all identical...the original devs should have made them into inherent powers the AT gets by default and used the design space to give Stalkers more of a unique identity. 

 

Mind you I'm not suggesting to boost the strength of the ATs or anything.  Just give them more flavor, more options.

 

[Vanden]

Most of the time that "flavor" comes at the cost of performance. Combat Readiness in Street Justice is strictly inferior to Build Up, for example, so the set's just better on Stalkers. Same story with Power Siphon in Kinetic Melee, which functions at odds with the cast time on the strongest powers in the set.

[Haijinx]

7 hours ago, Vanden said:

Most of the time that "flavor" comes at the cost of performance. Combat Readiness in Street Justice is strictly inferior to Build Up, for example, so the set's just better on Stalkers. Same story with Power Siphon in Kinetic Melee, which functions at odds with the cast time on the strongest powers in the set.

Stalkers do lose Rib Cracker though, which is a sweet looking animation after all.  

 

Would make a great alt animation for the Assassin's Blow .. just saying. 

 

But you are right.  I have a STJ Scrapper and a STJ Stalker at 50, there is no comparison.  The Stalker is superior.  Since its a better build-up X all the build-ups Stalkers get. 

[ABlueThingy]

16 hours ago, Vanden said:

Most of the time that "flavor" comes at the cost of performance. Combat Readiness in Street Justice is strictly inferior to Build Up, for example, so the set's just better on Stalkers. Same story with Power Siphon in Kinetic Melee, which functions at odds with the cast time on the strongest powers in the set.

Oh yeah agreed.  In most implementations it ends up over or under balanced relative to a flat Build Up.

 

Still... given my own little magic wand I would replace all the duplicate generic powers like Build Up and Taunt.  More importantly I would have made sure this was done at the start of the game so there was no expectation of the generic Build Up being the default option.

 

But I still haven't managed to catch any fairies yet so until then I'm just going to agree that I would like to see Taunt changed.  Not for any mechanical balance reasons.  The melee sets AS A WHOLE don't need a damage boost or ranged attack or hold or whatever.  But it just feels like a good place to leverage in slightly more of a unique identity for the melee ATs.  (If it can be done without breaking anything.)