Overwhelming Overpower: A Controller Inherent Buff - Control AVs and GMs!

[Blackfeather]

20 minutes ago, Darkneblade said:

Maybe for whole city of statues concern we can decrease AV's mez duration while they get damaged?

Like you held enemy for 3 mag held status for 20 seconds.

Blaster A used snipe. There is %X chance to reduce that duration.

With full team since lot of damage is going to that particular AV your mez becomes less duration but potentially with overwhelming overpower idea you can hold them more but with less duration.

@Ultimo, I noticed you talking about Champions Online a little while back - it sounds like you've some experience in that regard. Given your knowledge about the game, and how this proposal sounds like something quite similar to how control works there, might you have any thoughts on how that might look when applied on AVs/GMs? Would definitely be interested in hearing about it (or sending other people in the know this way)!

Edited October 6, 2020 by Blackfeather

[Blackfeather]

Additionally, I think I should ping @blazingcoconut - hello there! I saw your post about Controllers a little while back. There was mention about AVs being difficult to lock down with how things are in it: my proposal attempts to rectify that somewhat. Would love to hear your thoughts on it, along with any critiques you might have! Does it go too far? Too little? Looking forward to any responses you might have! 😄

[Darkneblade]

1 hour ago, Blackfeather said:

I think Champions Online had some sort of mechanic along those lines? Can't say one way or another about how that'd work out in practice, never played that game before.

Didn't know champions online has that as well. But that was I'm talking about yeah. Higher the damage you do to enemy. (Minor, Moderate,High, Superior, Extreme etc) Higher chance of reducing the mez duration. So controller with low damage affected less in theory.

[Ultimo]

Controls in Champions Online are pretty well nonexistent.  Beyond the fact that most of the time there's SOMEONE who has built a character capable of so much DPS that every thing is dead in less than 3 seconds, any damage done to an enemy reduces the amount of time they spend controlled.  So, if you put an enemy into a hold of some sort, and then someone damages them, they will usually be freed from the hold.

 

Of course, most AVs are basically immune to holds, both here and there.  The big difference is that here, our holds still do damage.

 

The real issue for me is that for Controllers and Dominators, they have pretty well no defense if they can't control the enemy.  Fighting bosses and above, you're basically left defenseless.

[Blackfeather]

38 minutes ago, Ultimo said:

Controls in Champions Online are pretty well nonexistent.  Beyond the fact that most of the time there's SOMEONE who has built a character capable of so much DPS that every thing is dead in less than 3 seconds, any damage done to an enemy reduces the amount of time they spend controlled.  So, if you put an enemy into a hold of some sort, and then someone damages them, they will usually be freed from the hold.

 

Of course, most AVs are basically immune to holds, both here and there.  The big difference is that here, our holds still do damage.

 

The real issue for me is that for Controllers and Dominators, they have pretty well no defense if they can't control the enemy.  Fighting bosses and above, you're basically left defenseless.

First off, thanks for your perspective, Ultimo!

 

Hmm...your thoughts on this, @Darkneblade? It does sound like the proposal you put forth might be a bit limiting in that case, especially on teams.

 

And it's true - part of a Controller's defences come from their ability to lock down the battlefield, similar to how a Blaster's defence comes from their offence. Of course, some of them do have support powers that can help them in that regard. I guess the main issue that comes up is that while the latter can still do their thing as usual against tougher opponents, the Controller can't really do that, outside of the opportunities where they're "allowed" (i.e. Purple Triangles).

 

That's what Overwhelming Overpower's attempting to do - provide them with the ability to use their primary against said tougher targets.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Blackfeather

[Darkneblade]

Hmm if AV's do not have purple triangles it should be fine. But they have, so I'm changing up a little.

Holded the enemy standard 10 seconds

 Damage = chance to reduce duration of hold by %X. Chance based on current HP. So lower the HP higher chance of reducing duration.

If stacked mag exist. (6 mag in that case. It reset current duration on first hold. But enemy gains resistance to hold for X seconds. So you potentially lose duration no matter damage.)

Do keep in mind that there are other mez types so they reduce duration separately.

So sleep and fear mez actually be useful for once since they will not broken anymore. Only duration.

Also powerboost could actually help you in that case. So you can slot for duration rather than damage.

If enemy is afflicted by too much mez. Enemy debuff resistance drops and potentially their resistance to damage as well? Temporarily of course.


Otherwise since purple triangles exist current system is fine with overwhelming overpower.

[BitCook]

What annoys me to some degree is that there is little difference in whether a Tank collects aggro and takes all the damage, preventing it with insane defense and resists, or a controller turns them into a statue.

 

The only mechanical difference is that if the Tank doesn't have enough aggro them someone can peel that off.  Otherwise they are mechanically the same.  Damage is prevented and people move on.

 

Why one is considered good for the game and the other bad is beyond me.  Probably because you can break aggro... Which leads us back to needing non binary holds.  Anyway, just a grouse about the whole situation.

[CaptainLupis]

3 minutes ago, BitCook said:

What annoys me to some degree is that there is little difference in whether a Tank collects aggro and takes all the damage, preventing it with insane defense and resists, or a controller turns them into a statue.

 

The only mechanical difference is that if the Tank doesn't have enough aggro them someone can peel that off.  Otherwise they are mechanically the same.  Damage is prevented and people move on.

 

Why one is considered good for the game and the other bad is beyond me.  Probably because you can break aggro... Which leads us back to needing non binary holds.  Anyway, just a grouse about the whole situation.

One is considered good, rightly or wrongly, because it causes the spawns to clump together for AoEs, where the other can actually prevent that from happening, potetntially slowing down clearing speed.

[Blackfeather]

8 hours ago, BitCook said:

What annoys me to some degree is that there is little difference in whether a Tank collects aggro and takes all the damage, preventing it with insane defense and resists, or a controller turns them into a statue.

 

The only mechanical difference is that if the Tank doesn't have enough aggro them someone can peel that off.  Otherwise they are mechanically the same.  Damage is prevented and people move on.

 

Why one is considered good for the game and the other bad is beyond me.  Probably because you can break aggro... Which leads us back to needing non binary holds.  Anyway, just a grouse about the whole situation.

On the one hand, I do see where you're coming from - a durable character can do a lot to mitigate a fight's difficulty by drawing attention away from more fragile characters. On the other, it does sound like that's something that comes down to game balance.

 

I'm sure the assumption here is that the Tanker can be overwhelmed with sufficient force, and can't draw that many enemies towards them. As such, other team members need to make sure that they're still not being attacked due to the aggro cap and so on - that could come in the form of damage or status effects.

 

Additionally, any thoughts on @Sovera's stance on this whole matter of Controllers as a whole from the previous page? It sounds like it'd be right up your alley.

[Sovera]

9 hours ago, BitCook said:

What annoys me to some degree is that there is little difference in whether a Tank collects aggro and takes all the damage, preventing it with insane defense and resists, or a controller turns them into a statue.

 

The only mechanical difference is that if the Tank doesn't have enough aggro them someone can peel that off.  Otherwise they are mechanically the same.  Damage is prevented and people move on.

 

Why one is considered good for the game and the other bad is beyond me.  Probably because you can break aggro... Which leads us back to needing non binary holds.  Anyway, just a grouse about the whole situation.

There is actually a bit of a difference. The Tanker is at risk to do this. We can discuss they are not at great risk since they can be really durable with incarnates and bonuses, but, the risk is there. They do what they do while surrounded by enemies all throwing punches at them and depending on which enemy it can be dangerous. An ITF can easily eat an unprepared Tanker because of the defense debuffs for example (which work pretty well even against resistance based primaries). Rularuu will eat a defense based Tanker. Carnies can make most Tanks cower because psi defense/resistance is not a common trait shared by Tanker primaries. -recharge and -recovery factions can be hell to tank if having the 'wrong' primary or without a min maxed build .-Recharge can be worked against, but -recovery most of the time has no protection other than defense and depending on the primary not all can defend against it (carnie's on death -recovery is AoE defense. That excludes all the primaries that are either resistance based (and will at most struggle to put up a decent S/L defense) or typed.

 

 

On the other hand Controllers are not. Before they get in agro range they will throw their AoE CC and barring 5% misses everything will be locked down (not a boss, but the immediate stacking of a second CC will achieve this). A Plant Controller makes a mockery of the game against anything not Confusion resistant since they can use it at every pack and keep the effect perma. Barring 5% misses. But even those the first Scrapper who walks in or Blaster who throws AoEs will immediately filch the agro off the Controller.

 

 

This is the binary nature of Controllers as I mentioned in my previous post. For 90% of the content Controllers are mini gods at that one thing. For the other 10% (AVs and EBs) they could not be relied to substitute a Tank who can shrug being punched in the face. But the moment we have a Tanker for the 10% then they can be relied for the other 90% also. Where the marriage is a happy one is with the factions I mentioned above, but marred by the fact the Tanker just needs to survive the initial five seconds of combat and then half the pack has been obliterated. At this a Controller throwing an AoE CC or a Blaster throwing a Nuke the result is the same, except the enemies are dead with the Blaster and not CCed and still in need of killing with a Controller.

 

Now if they were all bosses (as my favorite solution I keep bringing it up) the nuke would just have a dozen pissed off bosses at half HP. The Controller could get around things by spamming their mass immobilize since it recharges pretty fast and works fine at holding even bosses in place and thus greatly reducing incoming damage as ranged attacks as a rule are outstripped by melee ones.

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by Sovera

[Ultimo]

My thought was that foes who are immune to controls should suffer a big debuff to their offense... either a big tohit penalty or damage debuff.  That way, controllers would still be getting some defensive effect from their controls.

[Blackfeather]

17 hours ago, Darkneblade said:

Hmm if AV's do not have purple triangles it should be fine. But they have, so I'm changing up a little.

Holded the enemy standard 10 seconds

 Damage = chance to reduce duration of hold by %X. Chance based on current HP. So lower the HP higher chance of reducing duration.

If stacked mag exist. (6 mag in that case. It reset current duration on first hold. But enemy gains resistance to hold for X seconds. So you potentially lose duration no matter damage.)

Do keep in mind that there are other mez types so they reduce duration separately.

So sleep and fear mez actually be useful for once since they will not broken anymore. Only duration.

Also powerboost could actually help you in that case. So you can slot for duration rather than damage.

If enemy is afflicted by too much mez. Enemy debuff resistance drops and potentially their resistance to damage as well? Temporarily of course.


Otherwise since purple triangles exist current system is fine with overwhelming overpower.

While I'm on the fence about such a system being implemented globally, having that "break meter" would be pretty neat for some Sleep status effect powers, such as Salt Crystals and Flash Freeze! I talked about such changes to the Sleep status effect in an old thread of mine - while I wouldn't want to see this applied to every Sleep power, for the ones that'd make thematic sense for it to take a while to wake up from damage (e.g. trapped in fragile ice or salt), it'd be quite neat.

[Blackfeather]

9 hours ago, Ultimo said:

My thought was that foes who are immune to controls should suffer a big debuff to their offense... either a big tohit penalty or damage debuff.  That way, controllers would still be getting some defensive effect from their controls.

I believe something along those lines was mentioned a little while back - any thoughts on this implementation?

On 9/16/2020 at 6:59 AM, MTeague said:

Maybe the same way Immobs can apply a -Movement debuff against things that are too strong to be Immob'd, some kind of -Recharge against things that have Hold/Stun/Confuse/Fear applied, but the mez protection is too strong for the control to "Stick".  The -Recharge reflecting a "partial" Hold, where the foe can still attack, but sluggishly?  or in the case of Confuse/Fear has to spend extra time mentally focusing themselves before they attack?

 

EDIT:  and no application of the -Recharge if the control takes full effect.   If it really IS held, then the hold is enough.

Admittedly, I do kind of see the application of additional debuffs along with the actual status effect of a power to be secondary in purpose to the effect going off (I've talked about this here and here). I figure that the Controller already has their Support secondary to provide any buffs/debuffs they so desire, along with any status effects their primary might already supply.

 

Hence the route I went with this suggestion in the first place: providing a means to lock down AVs/GMs, but not all the time, attempting to balance the whole binary nature of status effects by applying an element of chance to them.

[CaptainLupis]

14 hours ago, Ultimo said:

My thought was that foes who are immune to controls should suffer a big debuff to their offense... either a big tohit penalty or damage debuff.  That way, controllers would still be getting some defensive effect from their controls.

I'd rather it doesn't do something that is already done by other powers/secondary effects. I think it needs something new and unique, although I understand that would probably be a lot more work than just adding in another secondary effect.

 

I try to visualise it like in comics/cartoons where the big bad gets their hand with the weapon encased in ice/web/whatever, so they are essentially partially controlled, in that they can still act, just not in the way they originally intended. I think we need to get away from the binary control of completely held/feared/stunned or nothing. But I realise I may well be alone in that.

[Ultimo]

2 hours ago, CaptainLupis said:

I'd rather it doesn't do something that is already done by other powers/secondary effects. I think it needs something new and unique, although I understand that would probably be a lot more work than just adding in another secondary effect.

 

I try to visualise it like in comics/cartoons where the big bad gets their hand with the weapon encased in ice/web/whatever, so they are essentially partially controlled, in that they can still act, just not in the way they originally intended. I think we need to get away from the binary control of completely held/feared/stunned or nothing. But I realise I may well be alone in that.

The idea is to prevent the enemy attacking you.  A -recharge would still let him attack, and because controllers have no other defense, even one attack could be fatal.  So, it's necessary that the control provide the defense.  If it's not going to actually hold the enemy, it needs to reduce the chances that he's going to attack the player with a devestating attack (either via reduced accuracy or reduced damage).

 

Different effects might cause different debuffs.

Immobilize = recharge debuff or slowed

Sleep = accuracy debuff (disoriented when waking up)

Hold = damage debuff (can't hit as hard because of slight paralysis)

 

Or something like that...

[Darkneblade]

2 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Different effects might cause different debuffs.

Immobilize = recharge debuff or slowed

Sleep = accuracy debuff (disoriented when waking up)

Hold = damage debuff (can't hit as hard because of slight paralysis)

Probably they need to be unresisted since purple patch makes support suffer lol. At least on AV's/GM's.

Good idea overall.

As for Fear and Stun, Confuse

Stun = Recharge Debuff. (Because they will become groggy after you hit them in head)
Fear = Defence debuff (Since terrorized enemies can't really protect themselves.)
Confuse = Resistance debuff. (Since they think you are ally hence unsuspected of inevitable betrayal)

All Fear powers already has to hit debuff though. So I'm not sure what is feasible approach other than giving defence debuff.
 

[BitCook]

On 10/7/2020 at 5:38 PM, Sovera said:

There is actually a bit of a difference. The Tanker is at risk to do this. We can discuss they are not at great risk since they can be really durable with incarnates and bonuses, but, the risk is there. They do what they do while surrounded by enemies all throwing punches at them and depending on which enemy it can be dangerous. An ITF can easily eat an unprepared Tanker because of the defense debuffs for example (which work pretty well even against resistance based primaries). Rularuu will eat a defense based Tanker. Carnies can make most Tanks cower because psi defense/resistance is not a common trait shared by Tanker primaries. -recharge and -recovery factions can be hell to tank if having the 'wrong' primary or without a min maxed build .-Recharge can be worked against, but -recovery most of the time has no protection other than defense and depending on the primary not all can defend against it (carnie's on death -recovery is AoE defense. That excludes all the primaries that are either resistance based (and will at most struggle to put up a decent S/L defense) or typed.

 

 

On the other hand Controllers are not. Before they get in agro range they will throw their AoE CC and barring 5% misses everything will be locked down (not a boss, but the immediate stacking of a second CC will achieve this). A Plant Controller makes a mockery of the game against anything not Confusion resistant since they can use it at every pack and keep the effect perma. Barring 5% misses. But even those the first Scrapper who walks in or Blaster who throws AoEs will immediately filch the agro off the Controller.

 

 

This is the binary nature of Controllers as I mentioned in my previous post. For 90% of the content Controllers are mini gods at that one thing. For the other 10% (AVs and EBs) they could not be relied to substitute a Tank who can shrug being punched in the face. But the moment we have a Tanker for the 10% then they can be relied for the other 90% also. Where the marriage is a happy one is with the factions I mentioned above, but marred by the fact the Tanker just needs to survive the initial five seconds of combat and then half the pack has been obliterated. At this a Controller throwing an AoE CC or a Blaster throwing a Nuke the result is the same, except the enemies are dead with the Blaster and not CCed and still in need of killing with a Controller.

 

Now if they were all bosses (as my favorite solution I keep bringing it up) the nuke would just have a dozen pissed off bosses at half HP. The Controller could get around things by spamming their mass immobilize since it recharges pretty fast and works fine at holding even bosses in place and thus greatly reducing incoming damage as ranged attacks as a rule are outstripped by melee ones.

 

I have a couple of tanks and for the most part I can do laundry while people beat on me.  But yes, I do agree they have some small level of risk assuming the are decently built.  However, I would say that controllers also have risk built in.  While I might control 90% of a mob... The remaining 10% can be deadly.

 

Tougher enemies, however that gets achieved is good.  It means that there is more reliance on mitigation.  Controls and buffs/debuffs become valued again.  Some form of non binary control would be great.  

[Blackfeather]

10 hours ago, CaptainLupis said:

I'd rather it doesn't do something that is already done by other powers/secondary effects. I think it needs something new and unique, although I understand that would probably be a lot more work than just adding in another secondary effect.

 

I try to visualise it like in comics/cartoons where the big bad gets their hand with the weapon encased in ice/web/whatever, so they are essentially partially controlled, in that they can still act, just not in the way they originally intended. I think we need to get away from the binary control of completely held/feared/stunned or nothing. But I realise I may well be alone in that.

Coincidentally, I actually envisioned Overwhelming Overpower as a logical extension of the magnitude system, with a character struggling to use their powers against a stronger foe: a battle of the wills of sorts (e.g. Infinity War's Titan fight where Mantis manages to put Thanos to sleep...the fact that AVs are vulnerable to said status effect notwithstanding), repeatedly attempting to assert their control over the enemy until they manage to give it their all.

 

I wanted to try to aim for those moments of power with this mechanic, to be able to lock down stronger foes, at least for a little while - the Plant Controller finally being able to draw up enough vines to bind the Big Bad, or the Electric Controller tapping deep into their reserves to send an overwhelming surge of energy through their target, and so on.

 

I like status effects due to how potent they potentially can be; they feel powerful in their own right, and more impactful than just debuffs and so on. So I wanted to try and keep to that spirit, while also ensuring that they couldn't be used to permanently tie down stronger opponents...hence the whole chance based nature of Overwhelming Overpower.

[CaptainLupis]

26 minutes ago, Blackfeather said:

Coincidentally, I actually envisioned Overwhelming Overpower as a logical extension of the magnitude system, with a character struggling to use their powers against a stronger foe: a battle of the wills of sorts (e.g. Infinity War's Titan fight where Mantis manages to put Thanos to sleep...the fact that AVs are vulnerable to said status effect notwithstanding), repeatedly attempting to assert their control over the enemy until they manage to give it their all.

 

I wanted to try to aim for those moments of power with this mechanic, to be able to lock down stronger foes, at least for a little while - the Plant Controller finally being able to draw up enough vines to bind the Big Bad, or the Electric Controller tapping deep into their reserves to send an overwhelming surge of energy through their target, and so on.

 

I like status effects due to how potent they potentially can be; they feel powerful in their own right, and more impactful than just debuffs and so on. So I wanted to try and keep to that spirit, while also ensuring that they couldn't be used to permanently tie down stronger opponents...hence the whole chance based nature of Overwhelming Overpower.

Funny you should mention sleeps, they are quite possibly the most useless powers in the game vs AVs and GMs. Even if you could stack enough mag to affect them any damage, which let's face it is kind of needed in a fight against them, will wake them up. Something else I was considering, but it doesn't really help lone controllers, would be if when the purple triangles are up they have a mag protection value that any mez power stacks up against, so if you have a team with 1 char that does mainly holds, another mainly stuns and a third sleeps they actually work together to overwhelm the mag protection, rather than having to try and do it separately for each mez type. They might need to up the mez resistance in the purple triangles to keep the mez time low, or something of that ilk, to make mez happen more often, but for short durations at a time?

Edited October 9, 2020 by CaptainLupis

[Blackfeather]

15 hours ago, CaptainLupis said:

Funny you should mention sleeps, they are quite possibly the most useless powers in the game vs AVs and GMs. Even if you could stack enough mag to affect them any damage, which let's face it is kind of needed in a fight against them, will wake them up. Something else I was considering, but it doesn't really help lone controllers, would be if when the purple triangles are up they have a mag protection value that any mez power stacks up against, so if you have a team with 1 char that does mainly holds, another mainly stuns and a third sleeps they actually work together to overwhelm the mag protection, rather than having to try and do it separately for each mez type. They might need to up the mez resistance in the purple triangles to keep the mez time low, or something of that ilk, to make mez happen more often, but for short durations at a time?

Oddly enough, I see Sleeps vs. Archvillains as one of the few places where they are useful due to their lack of resistance to them - I imagine @oedipus_tex can attest to that against things such as the Ms. Liberty Task Force and whatnot. Coincidentally, I've also created a thread on improving the utility of the Sleep status effect, with a fair amount of different ideas and discussion along with it.

 

And yeah, Overwhelming Overpower was designed with one or two Controllers on the team in mind. There's this tipping point with status effects against stronger enemies, where if you have enough of them, you can basically perma-lock enemies down, but then there's this huge gap in between, you know? Overwhelming Overpower was meant to breach that gap, providing the Controller the ability to lock down stronger opponents, but only some of the time, as a way of bridging that binary to some degree.

 

While I'm not sure how a global magnitude stacking might be implemented, I did think up something pretty similar! Basically, one addition to this proposal was a way to increase the likelihood of the Overpower mechanic to trigger (it's currently a flat 20%), via stacking different status effects, thus raising the chance, even if they don't actually affect an enemy due to their protection:

Quote

+Chance to Overpower

Another idea that's come to mind is letting the actual chance for the Overpower effect occur more frequently depending on a stacking bonus, similar to how Stalkers can build higher chances for critical hits. Potential ideas for 'stacks' (of let's say 5%) could be:

• Stacking percentage based on how many status effects on an enemy are applied (even if they aren't affecting them)
  • E.g. Controller attempts to Hold + Sleep + Confuse an AV, chance to Overpower is now 20% + (5% + 5% + 5%) = 35% chance
• Stacking percentage based on how many recent control powers have been used (time pending)
• Stacking percentage based on previous controls that weren't an Overpower (increase chance if it hasn't happened lately)
  • E.g. Controller's previous two controls were regular ones, chance to Overpower is now 20% + (5% + 5%) = 30% chance
• Increased chance based on amount of magnitude left until it exceeds protection
  • (Current Magnitude Inflicted / Enemy Magnitude Protection) * 100 = additional chance to Overpower
  • E.g. Controller Holds AV for Mag 3, resulting in a 26% chance to Overpower
    • (3 / 50) * 100 = 6% additional chance

There's definitely a lot of routes to go about this!

[Blackfeather]

On 10/9/2020 at 5:31 AM, Darkneblade said:

All Fear powers already has to hit debuff though. So I'm not sure what is feasible approach other than giving defence debuff.

Actually, I think Mind Control's Terrify is an exception in that regard - compare it to Illusion Control's Spectral Terror or Darkness Control's Fearsome Stare.

[CaptainLupis]

7 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

Oddly enough, I see Sleeps vs. Archvillains as one of the few places where they are useful due to their lack of resistance to them - I imagine @oedipus_tex can attest to that against things such as the Ms. Liberty Task Force and whatnot. Coincidentally, I've also created a thread on improving the utility of the Sleep status effect, with a fair amount of different ideas and discussion along with it.

 

And yeah, Overwhelming Overpower was designed with one or two Controllers on the team in mind. There's this tipping point with status effects against stronger enemies, where if you have enough of them, you can basically perma-lock enemies down, but then there's this huge gap in between, you know? Overwhelming Overpower was meant to breach that gap, providing the Controller the ability to lock down stronger opponents, but only some of the time, as a way of bridging that binary to some degree.

 

While I'm not sure how a global magnitude stacking might be implemented, I did think up something pretty similar! Basically, one addition to this proposal was a way to increase the likelihood of the Overpower mechanic to trigger (it's currently a flat 20%), via stacking different status effects, thus raising the chance, even if they don't actually affect an enemy due to their protection:

There's definitely a lot of routes to go about this!

Yes, sleeps can be useful where there are multiple AVs that you want to take on one at a time, but that is rare. When you are up against a single AV using sleeps against them is pretty much a waste of end. Which is why I'm hoping that, if they do implement any changes to control, it isn't the old binary mezzed or not, to make things like sleeps useful even in those kinds of encounters.

 

We all know how damn annoying it was back on live where all toggles dropped when you were mezzed, even ones that had such a short duration you often didn't even notice it had happened. If we could do something like that against AVs powers (although probably not all at once) I think it would be somewhat on the right track to making mez useful against them.

[Blackfeather]

11 hours ago, CaptainLupis said:

Yes, sleeps can be useful where there are multiple AVs that you want to take on one at a time, but that is rare. When you are up against a single AV using sleeps against them is pretty much a waste of end. Which is why I'm hoping that, if they do implement any changes to control, it isn't the old binary mezzed or not, to make things like sleeps useful even in those kinds of encounters.

 

We all know how damn annoying it was back on live where all toggles dropped when you were mezzed, even ones that had such a short duration you often didn't even notice it had happened. If we could do something like that against AVs powers (although probably not all at once) I think it would be somewhat on the right track to making mez useful against them.

Perhaps this might interest you? It sounds like there's some potential changes being mulled around!

Similarly, did anything in my other thread pique your interest about improving the Sleep status effect?

 

That being said, outside of the Sleep status effect, what other qualms do you have about the others, out of curiosity? Stuns/Holds/Confuses/Fears all seem quite potent in their own right to varying degrees. I figure that for Controllers, being able to use them against AV/GMs via Overwhelming Overpower would be plenty enough to give them some utility there, even if they can't be used to perma-lock them down.

[CaptainLupis]

8 minutes ago, Blackfeather said:

Perhaps this might interest you? It sounds like there's some potential changes being mulled around!

Similarly, did anything in my other thread pique your interest about improving the Sleep status effect?

 

That being said, outside of the Sleep status effect, what other qualms do you have about the others, out of curiosity? Stuns/Holds/Confuses/Fears all seem quite potent in their own right to varying degrees. I figure that for Controllers, being able to use them against AV/GMs via Overwhelming Overpower would be plenty enough to give them some utility there, even if they can't be used to perma-lock them down.

I'll take a look at that sleep thread. As far as the others the only issue I have with them is the binary nature, they either work completely, or no effect. Overwhelming Overpower just continues that theme. If they aren't going to address the binary nature of mez then I have no problem with it as an option for helping out a bit in endgame scenarios, it's just I am hoping for something a bit more radical to beimplemented instead. But I suspect I am probably in the minority there.

Edited October 11, 2020 by CaptainLupis

[Solarverse]

Does Domination double the affect though? For example, a Dom's Single Target Hold is Mag 3, however, I believe when activating Domination, it simply brings it to a Mag 4 hold and then increases the duration by 66.6%. I'm not saying that is any better, but I just wanted to clarify that it does not double the Magnitude of the Hold power or the duration. However, increasing the Magnitude of the power by a factor of one is the reason you can hold a boss with a single application of a Hold Power instead of having to cast a hold twice, because you need a higher Mag than 3 to hold a boss. Same with locking down Wolves which has I think a Mag 7 resist to Immobilize (I could be wrong with the wolves resistance factor, but not by much) since it takes my Controller 3 attempts to lock them down before I actually get passed their resist to Immob.

Having said that, the only issue I have with this is that until a day comes where AV's and GM's become more difficult, I don't believe making AV and GM fights easier by allowing a Controller more power to hold them is the answer. AV's and GM's already go down so fast with the exception of Reichsman and Lord Recluse of course. If the Devs ever buff the AV's and GM's though....I would be all for this idea.