Game Balance & The Endgame

[Neiska]

12 minutes ago, macskull said:

There's only been one time in the history of this game that a power has been nerfed in PvE solely for PvP reasons and I'd bet a billion inf you don't know what it is.

You're right. I don't know what it is. (If I had to guess, I would say that it was Psi Melee.) And that doesn't somehow void my point. That in other games that balanced PVE abilities for PVP reasons, well, it didn't go well for them, and I would like to avoid a similar outcome here. 

 

But lets play hypothetical here. Lets say for a moment, the power sets were balanced, updated, and designed around PVP in mind. How do you think that would go? Here's my guess -

 

1. Dot damage would take a nosedive, burst damage would be king.

2. Tanks/Brutes/Defensive minded characters would also take a dip, just like another game who wont be mentioned where there are 45+ minute cue times to wait for tanks. Keep in mind, that's with a much larger population than ours. I suspect finding tankers for teams/missions here would be much worse.

3. The entire math and values behind CC and Debuffs might have to be redone.

4. Some quality of live changes that the PVE crowd loves, might have to be reverted. An example would be the Mastermind pets. In PVP blocking/hiding behind the pet was a valid strategy, but that also means the Masterminds could block doorways and tunnels all the time. With that change, its a huge boost in play for all masterminds everywhere, but the PVP crowd didn't seem to like it.

5. Some classes are not well built for PVP. Which means they might have to get an entire overhaul to make them "competitive" in the PVP area. And in my experience, retooling a class from PVE to PVP, usually changes its role PVE as well, usually not in a good way.

6. Its likely that healing and buffs would have to be rebalanced as well.

 

All of these changes would greatly affect PVE.

 

Just a few examples off the top of my head. This isn't a PVP game with PVE as bonus content, I would argue its a PVE one with PVP as bonus content. And this is in no way meant to be hating on the PVPers. You guys do what you love. But balancing things around PVP, would break a lot of things PVE, and not in a good way.

[Mezmera]

1 minute ago, FUBARczar said:

Seems like what you describe was "democracy" (aka mob rule) having a player vote.  If they vote multiple times it's like taking mail in ballots of dead people, or people that moved and casting them too.  hahaha  Also in a democracy many people don't go to the "forums" and participate in the process.

 

So I guess u are saying you don't want any bias from active forum going players, only the bias of the volunteer devs?  So you want a smaller elite group to decide everything rather than give at least a few more people a voice/ability to contribute?  

 

Yes things may change, but people shouldn't try to be heard or influence the process?  Why do you post on the forums?

Yes I'm more preferential to the old Greek voting.  City inhabitants were given a stone to make their mark and drop it into a vase to which votes were tallied.  Funny how ancient civilizations had a better handle on how to create a system of involvement and accountability for everyone their localized politics should pertain to.  

 

Like suggest x, y, z on the table of things they were going to have a looksie into and let people with active accounts and only one vote per IP.  You'd get a pretty good handle on where to point your sail I'd think.  

[Jimmy]

21 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

blasters have gotten the sustain ability, tons of survive-ability added to the kit in their secondaries, raised hp cap on top of their already higher base hp among other squishies and then to top it off have super duper fast recharging crashless nukes and there's no issues there?

That's actually exactly the point. Most of what you mention is from before the snap - Blasters had a heavily unfinished balance pass in the i24 beta which has required quite a lot of follow-up to get right.

[Phoenix']

I play blaster 99% of the times since i9 

Blasters MUST be nerfed! 

Hp cap reduced to 1606, no absorb/hp auras are few of the things I personally believe should happen 

[Neiska]

4 minutes ago, FUBARczar said:

So I guess u are saying you don't want any bias from active forum going players, only the bias of the volunteer devs?  So you want a smaller elite group to decide everything rather than give at least a few more people a voice/ability to contribute?  

 

Yes things may change, but people shouldn't try to be heard or influence the process?  Why do you post on the forums?

Kay, first off, don't put words in my mouth. I never said that input from players are a bad thing. If you actually take the effort to read the entire discussion, I was reacting to the idea of leaving the development of the game up to the small population that actually use the forums. Which I still say, is a bad idea, for the reasons listed.

 

Secondly, you seem to act like they don't take feedback at all, which would be untrue. All "you" have access to, is the forums. "They" have access to logs, tickets, developer tools, the forums, PMs, discord, and more. In fact it might be argued that there are more "Nerf TW, buff regen" posts than others. (except possibly buff merc posts in the discord.) Rose tinted glasses, the data you see is in fact only a small part of it.

[Mezmera]

1 minute ago, Jimmy said:

That's actually exactly the point. Most of what you mention is actually from before the snap - Blasters had a heavily unfinished balance pass in the i24 beta which has required quite a lot of follow-up to get right.

So you're suggesting as it stands now blasters have gotten their "fair" balance?  And we're spending time giving them a new powerset with a pbaoe -resist debuff?  Crashless nukes are outrageously OP if you're going to call into question things like TW and PPM. 

 

Then we're going to look into how power boost would affect Unleash Potential, god forbid a dominator come up with a devious plan to give them some of that survive-ability blasters just inherently get nowadays.

[FUBARczar]

8 hours ago, Machariel said:

My takeaway from this is that having more than one Dominator on a team can be redundant.  Once a mob is controlled, making it more controlled doesn't make the fight any faster.  Indeed, it might even slow it down, in that the time spent casting the control powers is basically wasted.  Also if like 20 enemies are confused, applying a hold or stun etc to them makes them stop attacking each other, so that potential damage is also lost.  Unlike controllers Dominators aren't really force multipliers and don't have debuffs that make things die faster, so while they can complete the TF in relative safety (and skip Minotaurs/Cyclops T9 by stacking hold magnitude), they can really only defeat things as fast as 4 Dominator secondaries.  I don't think that's necessarily bad, it's just a function of how the AT is designed.

 

On the other hand, it also makes a big difference whether those secondaries are like, Fire or Ice vs Elec or Thorny.  So they could definitely handle being looked at.

One problem is finding other Doms that can stay alive for a 4-man master run at +4/8.  I have only teamed with a handful capable of this like @Mezmera (shout out), @Dayday and a few others.  Also when playing with great players like these they don't just spam counter-productive control powers.  They know the idea is to stick and move, get the objective done ASAP and on to the next.  Most fat is trimmed.

 

Having all the same AT highlights the strengths and weaknesses of each AT more.  With this testing I think it highlights that they could use a damage bump, especially without strong access to good debuffs across powersets.  This is one of many reason Doms should be compared to Blasters (which actually have more debuffs available) and not to say Controllers.  Even Compared to "low" damage Controllers Doms (which are a Dmg AT) underperform.  I think all along there has been a sense of seeking some balance between Red and Blue.  Just look at the recent Tank balancing.  Tanks and Brutes were benchmarked to one another.  Then we have Blasters and Doms.  Defenders and Corruptors.  MMs and Controllers (btw give them the pet control window).  Scrappers and Stalkers.

 

BTW here were the powersets on that run:  Plant/Rad, Plant/Psi, Mind/Fire and Fire/Energy - it's not like they were all Ice Control/Electric Assault

 

8 hours ago, skoryy said:

Yeah, I've had enough windups and a whiff to keep away from TW for now.  I'm good with nerfing TW's damage if the changes make the Momentum mechanic less trying in practice.

Bruh, can't we have unique sets and mechanics?  Not everyone needs to play TW, or any set in particular.  Variety is the spice of life.  Don;t change Momentum and don't kill the pay off (ei damage) either.  Plus remember there are Brutes and Tanks w/ TW and every change suggested to avoid the scary TW/Bio Scrapper will disproportionately harm every other player with TW.

 

8 hours ago, Number Six said:

Some powers are nerfed AND buffed.

 

TW is a great example of that. The overall damage output has some of the "you paid real money for this set" damage bonus removed (I can't help but imagine a weapon enhancement that is someone taping dollar bills to a big sword). However, there's also a mechanics change to Momentum that is a fairly big deal QoL-wise and hopefully will make the set less frustrating to play.

It's not about QoL, it's a unique mechanic, that isn't and doesn't have to be for everyone.  Not only that, it is also thematically appropriate too.  Imagine going to 31 Flavors for ice cream, but there are actually onlt Chocolate and Vanilla... What the...???  Give me some freaking Bubble Gum ice cream!!!   Do you know what I mean?

 

7 hours ago, Neiska said:

To go back on topic, I am fine with TW getting changed, particularly with the unwieldy momentum mechanic that plays like a bathtub on a slip n slide. I just hope they don't overnerf it, with regards to the other ATs that use it (Brutes and Tankers), instead of the bio/TW scrapper combo that seems to be the main issue with it.

 

I have noticed no one has commented yet on Energy Melee, Trick Arrow, or the Blaster changes. The post says there will be more buffs than nerfs, so there is that. And my interest is peaked with the incarnate crafting system changes. (Hoping we might get to do something with excess threads)

 

If we were allowed to wish for other things, personally I would throw recharge pets up for consideration, but that's just me.

I commented on Energy Melee and Blaster Secondaries.

 

Also see my response directly above this one concerning TW

[Grouchybeast]

8 hours ago, Captain Yesterday said:

I think the main players of any AT should have a say in the outcome when the Nerfbat (ahem, "changes") comes around for their favorite AT. Those are the people who will care.

Which they can do, every time, in the Beta forums.  Lots of players donate their playing time to give feedback there.  You should have a look around in there sometime.  I think it might help to alleviate your worry that the HC devs don't listen to players when they make changes, because they manifestly do.

[FUBARczar]

7 hours ago, GM Korvin said:

This might be of interest to you!

no, no and no please.  Don't remove flavor from the menu.  Why would want to strip a unique set of it's uniqueness?  We might as well drop Soul Drain and replace it with BU, same with Claws and Dual Blades.  How about remove Staff Mastery from Staff?  Not every set needs to be the same.  Not everybody has to play every set.  Please let us retain uniqueness and payoff for any pain.  TW is fine it's Kinetic Melee, and others than greatly need attention.  

[Parabola]

I can't resist a thought on both the 'buffs not nerfs' and 'just make new harder content' arguments.

 

Say 5% of powersets are overperforming and the rest sit somewhere along the good to decent to energy melee scale. Bumping everything up to the level of the 5% powersets means adjusting 95% of the sets in the game, taking a huge amount of development time. Reigning in the outlier(s) to the good level means not having to touch the rest of the good sets. It might also mean that the decent sets can be left alone as they are no longer so far away from the target powerlevel. That means more resources can be poured into the energy melee's of this world which can only be a good thing.

 

Also buffing to the level of the outlier will never end. Something will be found to be the new outlier and everything else will have to be buffed to that. That's power gallop not creep. And it would do terrible things to the already problematic difficulty balance.

 

Which brings me to adding new harder content. Again think about how much content we already have in the game. Adding new content is clearly time consuming and will only add up to a few % of the overall available content. Does it make more sense for the devs to work on trying to make 95% of the game more engaging with a balance pass or adding 5% more content? Obviously I'm making numbers up to make a point but I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from.

 

In my opinion rebalancing is a healthy and necessary part of the ongoing maintenance of an mmo. The devs have given every indication of both a deep understanding and love of this game. I see no reason to fear changes that they might make. I've enjoyed making proc monster defenders but if they change so be it. Similarly with individual powersets. I love my tactical arrow blasters but am happy for the set to be reigned in a little so that other manipulation sets become more viable.

[Jimmy]

9 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

Which they can do, every time, in the Beta forums.  Lots of players donate their playing time to give feedback there.  You should have a look around in there sometime.  I think it might help to alleviate your worry that the HC devs don't listen to players when they make changes, because they manifestly do.

So much this.

 

Testing and feedback is super important at every stage of development, and we really do value it and listen to it when, y'know, actual testing is involved. We don't, however, put much stock in hot takes, and historically it's been pretty easy to tell when posters haven't tested the changes they are posting feedback on.

If you have concerns about Titan Weapons, etc, then you need to spend some time actually testing the changes once they hit the public test server and posting your feedback.

 

Decisions are made by those who show up.

[Ruin Mage]

I feel like some people need to learn meditation to relax after reading some posts here.

Who knows what this will look like in execution? We don't have the full patch notes yet for Page 6, and any other future Pages.

That's what matters - seeing how they execute it first.

Development does include tweaking numbers and mechanics, that is a fact.

[Neiska]

1 minute ago, Shadeknight said:

I feel like some people need to learn meditation to relax after reading some posts here.

Who knows what this will look like in execution? We don't have the full patch notes yet for Page 6, and any other future Pages.

That's what matters - seeing how they execute it first.

Development does include tweaking numbers and mechanics, that is a fact.

100% agree. They haven't even posted the actual numbers for the changes they are thinking about, they only posted the idea of change. I mean, if they had posted data with actual numbers for people to browse, fair point. People might have a leg to stand on when saying the change is bad. But there is a silly amount of "REEEEE" here over what is a mere mention of a change. People haven't played it yet, haven't tested it yet, there is no numbers posted yet for the smarty people to run numbers and see how it ends up. Who knows, the change might end up being great for everyone.

 

But this feels more like some are against the idea of change at all, regardless of what that change might be. That or some like being super OP, regardless of the wider impact of having OP sets in games. I would bet if the change was making it stronger, or even more OP, they would be 100% supportive of it.

 

As far as the point of "raising everything to TW's level", I would point to @parabola's last post which I agree with. Moreover, lets play hypothetical and say that everything was raised to TW's level. I suspect the following would occur -

 

1. Posts saying the game being too easy now, and requests for harder, more difficult content.

2. With "every" damage set being TW's level, there would be very little need to play CC, debuffers, or healers. Why bother if everyone could make brutes or scrappers and just steamroll the content. Even on max difficulty things would be dead very quickly. As it stands even now there are some people saying that's what it feels like to be on a team with Support characters. IE - too much damage, and you don't "need" support on a team.

3. It could turn into an absurd loop of buffs. Another game I wont name did just that. And its quite common to see skills with 15,000% damage or higher, with people capable of dealing billions or trillions of damage. Its a snowball effect where everyone just bats and eye and does such absurd amounts of damage they had to ramp up difficulty just to pose a challenge, and I shudder to think what effect such a thing might have on the PVP here. 

 

I'm not saying that's 100% for SURE what would happen here. Only what HAS happened before, on other platforms and in other games. And I would hope that many people would see that as a bad thing.

 

Best wishes

[Ruin Mage]

The game is easy because it was being made that way by the original devs.
However, I still find itrials badge runs to be decently challenging and Master of TF runs to be as well. You can't account for the human factor.

Now sure: It'a a superhero game, we need to feel super.

Personally? IOs really help with that. Like they really bring a character "online". If they wanted to attack the feeling super, they'd go after set bonuses and IOs in general. But they aren't. They're going after a few outliers and changing them. They've confirmed Titan Weapons (which is so far above and beyond other sets, especially on Scrappers) is getting looked at. They've confirmed Energy Melee (an underperformer/funky melee set due to animation/time/etc) and who knows what else. The thing is that we don't have the numbers, and people want to assume the worst of the worst. It is quite sad honestly.

Not only that, but the future pages could have what they ask for - lesser utilized / underperforming sets getting a look over. It's not going to be instantaneous. It also won't be without its time on testing servers. Some people are making grand hypothesized conclusions off the smallest thing. It's not that hard to frown but its certainly hard to not doomsay apparently. I personally believe in waiting for the proper patch notes on the test server each time. I prefer seeing how they execute what they mention here rather than going "oh NO WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE STRONG ANYMORE." and making grand gestures about how HC will die.

There's quite a few posts in this thread that amount to a child's tantrum over not getting to get Ice Cream. It's rather silly, and just makes you look like an absolute dingus.

Chill.
Take a breather.

Forum warfare is not a job, yo.

[FUBARczar]

1 hour ago, Neiska said:

Kay, first off, don't put words in my mouth. I never said that input from players are a bad thing. If you actually take the effort to read the entire discussion, I was reacting to the idea of leaving the development of the game up to the small population that actually use the forums. Which I still say, is a bad idea, for the reasons listed.

 

Secondly, you seem to act like they don't take feedback at all, which would be untrue. All "you" have access to, is the forums. "They" have access to logs, tickets, developer tools, the forums, PMs, discord, and more. In fact it might be argued that there are more "Nerf TW, buff regen" posts than others. (except possibly buff merc posts in the discord.) Rose tinted glasses, the data you see is in fact only a small part of it.

I never did put words in your mouth, I asked questions as to your meaning.  In fact, every sentence you quoted ended in a question mark.

 

looking at what you posted/argued (below) you argued against voting/democracy (albeit by only a portion of all players) calling it "arbitrary "tyranny"".  I think saying such warranted questions and clarification.  That said, it is perfectly fine for people to post and debate ideas, and then based on merit make some decision.  I probably agree that voting on it is probably not the best way.  The process would benefit from discussion and selecting via data yes, and also reason allowing for nuance.  

2 hours ago, FUBARczar said:

I don't think putting a game in the hands of a community would not go the way you might expect. Or there's personal bias, what "you" may want, "others" wouldnt. (thats fair to say about anyone though really.) And thus "you" would still be in the same place where you are right now. Lastly, the majority of players don't use the forums, its a minority. So you would have only 80% of a minority population deciding on game features.

 

That to me, would be "actual" arbitrary "tyranny". Not ongoing updates you happen to disagree with, which is not "tyrannical" in the slightest. It says right in the user agreement that you sign to login each time "things may change". So this shouldn't be any sort of shock to you.  

 

32 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

However, I still find itrials badge runs to be decently challenging and Master of TF runs to be as well.

on that point I think Master of Runs on Task/Strike Forces should require Max Notoriety (+4) w/o inspirations for the same reason no deaths or temp powers are allowed.  Can you really be called a Master at +0 especially if incarnated.  

 

So I advocate for a new badge like "God of X's Task Force"  lol, or something

[Xanatos]

3 hours ago, Phoenix' said:

How being unkillable for 3 minutes seems balanced in PvP? And if you have burnout that means in a 10 minute match you can have a t9 for 9 freaking minutes. How is that balanced?
T9s should stay but they should last less time and have way longer recharge.
Plus I would love to see a small t9 given to other sets as well.

 

Burnout only lets you have the T9s up for 6 minutes.

 

And I've killed enough people through their T9s to know they're not unkillable. (Though I understand they might seem that way to someone who mostly 8v8s/zones.)

[blazingcoconut]

12 hours ago, Captain Yesterday said:

Then proceeds to completely ignore the exact thing they recognize that people wanted, ignore all suggestions, and talk about all the changes NOBODY wanted. Hope you enjoy your dystopian empty servers, because this is how you get dystopian empty servers.

 

You do not speak globally.  There are plenty of changes in there that I think are good.  There are people in this thread who have thought the changes are good.  So they are things that people wanted.  In your entire thread you confuse "what I want for my perfect MMO" with what everyone wants.  They are not the same, and after reading the list not close for me at least.

12 hours ago, Captain Yesterday said:

How to fix the game in the way PEOPLE WANT (not dev want) with these steps.

 

Again, you speak only for you.  There were a couple of generic items that were fine, but I have no issues if they nerf overperforming powers.  As it stands the power creep has made entire ATs struggle with their definition.  That's a problem that can't be fixed by buffing everything.  Because there are some outlier powers and a general reduction in negative ramifications for using things (crashes, etc) as well as the power boon of incarnates and IOs, controls and buff powers are no longer really needed in endgame content.  You can't fix that unless you make some of those sets less powerful (or globally boosting enemies with things to combat it which is nearly the same).

So certainly give your opinions, but you don't speak for me, and I would guess that you don't speak for a lot of people.

[Pzn]

I don't think the proc system should be overhauled again.  It would mean needing to potentially respec every single build that uses PPM IOs.  I already went through this headache back on live when the proc system was initially overhauled.  Just because they are enhancements doesn't mean they should be exempt from the cottage rule.  If they no longer fire off reliably in certain powers then you've changed the function of that power they're slotted in.  Being forced to respec every single one of my builds would really kill my motivation to play.  I hope you reconsider.

 

[Xanatos]

6 hours ago, macskull said:

I think the crux of the argument is something like "Controllers (or insert X low-damage AT here) shouldn't be able to do that much damage" while completely disregarding any sacrifices that are made to allow that to happen. Homecoming has been out in the open for almost a year and a half now, and the PPM system existed in its current implementation the entire time Resurgence was hidden from the public view. I'm of the opinion that there's no real reason to go after the PPM/proc system and any efforts to nerf it are a solution to a nonexistent problem. I think the only legitimate argument that can be made against the PPM system is PvP balance, but the simplest solution to that is simply reduce the amount of damage procs do in PvP.

 

Absolutely spot on. There are a few instances where procs need to be looked at in PVE (such as double-proccing in burn, -res procs giving blasters/scrappers the same -res as debuffer sets, the FF +rech proc being permable in Energy Blast, etc) but I don't think damage procs are a problem at all in PVE. They allow for build diversity in PVE. I like that. That should be encouraged.

 

I do worry that the Homecoming team are looking for solutions to a problem they haven't clearly defined. @The Curator saying "many procs are very strong in AoEs and very weak in single targets" (when procs mostly behave the opposite way to this) has got me a little bit on edge.

 

To their credit, though. They really do listen to feedback. (Which is useful when the occasional shower thought finds its way onto the training room server.)

 

 

4 hours ago, macskull said:

There's only been one time in the history of this game that a power has been nerfed in PvE solely for PvP reasons and I'd bet a billion inf you don't know what it is.

 

I've seen you post this a few times and it annoys me no end I can't remember exactly. Is it repel or disruption field or something like that?

 

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Xanatos

[Phoenix']

8 minutes ago, josh1622 said:

I don't think the proc system should be overhauled again.  It would mean needing to potentially respec every single build that uses PPM IOs.  I already went through this headache back on live when the proc system was initially overhauled.  Just because they are enhancements doesn't mean they should be exempt from the cottage rule.  If they no longer fire off reliably in certain powers then you've changed the function of that power they're slotted in.  Being forced to respec every single one of my builds would really kill my motivation to play.  I hope you reconsider.

 

Keeping an unbalanced system in order to prevent yourself doing a respec is a lame reason pal. 

I dont mind respecing 100 times per week as long as I finally see a balanced system that this game deserves 

[blazingcoconut]

11 hours ago, ScarySai said:

You have to dive into the code either way, you can be lazy and just adjust values downward on the offending ability, or take the time to make a nuanced change that compensates for the loss. An easy change doesn't equal a good change.

 

If you have worked with large code bases, it should be pretty clear that singular points of change are both easier and less risky and often very warranted.

People often talk about raising the tide raises all boats... that's not true in a system like this.

Take the changes to blast sets.  Snipes are now both fast and hard hitting and nukes have no crash.  Time to Kill Decreases.  That fixed a lot of problems for blast sets by giving them better attack rotations and T9s that you actually want to use!  That's great...

Well... maybe not.  It's great if you are playing someone with a blast set.  But if you are a Tanker, Controller, Dominator, and to a lesser extent Brute, Defender and Corruptor, your job of protecting people just got a little less relevant.  Controls and buffs are needed less because with those tight attack chains, things are dying much faster.  After several changes like this, you start to have real issues with the purpose for certain types of powers.  Why control anything when you could have picked more damage and just defeated them?  Why protect people who already are soft capped to most everything?  Why care about aggro when they die so quick that you can't even get it... or watch the blaster jump in the middle of a spawn anyway?

Those issues can't be solved by a buff because the Time To Kill affects eveything.  So you can give everyone more damage?  No... that doesn't really help someone who wanted to play a support/control based character.  You can change all mobs so they are harder.  Yes, but that's a very large change and as I've tried (and maybe failed) to illustrate, large changes often have unforeseen consequences. 

So sometimes, it's not being lazy, but being prudent.  Pick off a few of the really overperforming sets as a way to lower Time to Kill because it's a change that has less impact globally

[FUBARczar]

5 hours ago, Jimmy said:

So much this.

 

Testing and feedback is super important at every stage of development, and we really do value it and listen to it when, y'know, actual testing is involved. We don't, however, put much stock in hot takes, and historically it's been pretty easy to tell when posters haven't tested the changes they are posting feedback on.

If you have concerns about Titan Weapons, etc, then you need to spend some time actually testing the changes once they hit the public test server and posting your feedback.

 

Decisions are made by those who show up.

sounds good.  Just a thought concerning TW before decisions are finalized for what gets tested.

 

It doesn't appear that TW is OP for Brutes and Tanks, and there should be concern about scrapper changes also negatively impacting Brutes and Tanks.  So I was thinking (I know watch out), perhaps a change that would preserve the uniqueness of TW (Momentum) and still reign in TW Scrappers a little w/o harming Brutes and Tanks would be to remove Critical Strikes from Rend Armor kind of like MA's Eagle Claw and KM's Concentrated Strike.  Rend Armor would still be useful with -res and -def, but it would also lower overall dmg potential w/o harming the other ATs.  Or something along those lines, BUT TW should still perform on top if only by the smallest of margins that way we avoid tons of regret and buyer's remorse as much as possible.

 

Remember that so many people choose TW on Scrappers because they want performance.  It's not like SS where people still choose it just because they want to be Superman.  It needs to be said that  we don't want nobody to play TW anymore so let's keep the nerf as more a thoughtful tweak an actual nerfbat and not a real bat.

 

And keep in mind that TW outperforms in one off cases like a rikti pylon.  In regular play it's not so OP.  In fact I am playing a TW/Bio Tank right now and so many times I wind up and my target is dead before I connect, forget about missing the attack.  I think TW is garnering too much attention.  And don't forget the redraw.

Edited September 21, 2020 by FUBARczar

[Parabola]

6 minutes ago, Xanatos said:

3 hours ago, macskull said:

There's only been one time in the history of this game that a power has been nerfed in PvE solely for PvP reasons and I'd bet a billion inf you don't know what it is.

 

I've seen you post this a few times and it annoys me no end I can't remember exactly. Is it repel or disruption field or something like that?

It'll be something silly like prestige power slide.

[Xanatos]

3 minutes ago, parabola said:

It'll be something silly like prestige power slide.

30% extra purple.

[GM Tock]

Walk now has increased accuracy while the power is activated. 😁