Make Ice Control Cooler: A Control Powerset Buff

[oedipus_tex]

54 minutes ago, Blackfeather said:

Hmm...I'll admit I'm relatively fine with what Shiver's able to hit at the moment - given how wide of a cone it is, it works well even at close distances (comparatively, Gale, even with its smaller 80 degree cone, is more than able to knock away any enemies that come close to the player), but those do sound like interesting changes.

 

I think the biggest one would be one of the 180 degree melee cones (such as Pendulum), but as for cones with a proper range, I'm fairly sure Shiver is the highest - 135 degrees is a lot.

 

 

I have strong feelings about Shiver overall. Part of what makes Shiver so unwieldly in the context of Ice Control is you're likely up close to the pack in order to use Arctic Air, which puts you in the red zone with a high chance of aggroing enemies nearby. The cone is actually too big IMO and, especially  if Shiver is enhanced with Range, has resulted in more deaths than its worth. You don't even always have full control of this. A teammate can hit you with Ageless Destiny and unexpectedly increase the range on Shiver. I wish I had a bloopers video of misfiring this power 180 degrees opposite of the way I intend when an enemy is suddenly knocked back or my intended target dies.

 

Related: Searching for an enemy to serve as a center point of a 135 radius cone is an adventure I could write books about. 

 

What I personally really really do not want is a version of Shiver that is a still a cone and also a mezz. We have cone mezzes in game (Terrify, Fearsome Stare) and I don't feel Arctic Air will play nicely with them. The best thing I can say for Shiver currently is at least I can skip it. Adding a mezzing cone to Ice Control would be a big departure. That's why I think if any alpha breaker is considered it should go in Flash Freeze and not Shiver. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Blackfeather]

On 11/24/2020 at 4:10 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Except that shiver is a cone, which would force you to move out of melee to hit the whole mob. The point of giving shiver the longer duration is to freeze, then use shiver, then go in melee with AA and have shiver lasting most of the battle while you're in melee.

If it were any other cone than Shiver, I'd be inclined to agree with you...but it has a 135 degree arc, one of the widest ranged cones in the game, if not the widest. When Gale, with its 80 degree cone can push plenty of enemies away from point blank range, I don't really see this as an issue.

 

If anything, I'd argue that the devs gave Shiver such a wide arc intentionally, because they were aware that Ice Control involves staying up close to enemies a lot of the time via Arctic Air.

 

That being said, I'd be fine with getting rid of any damage additions proposed in my original post for @Galaxy Brain's proposal, or something along those lines - it sounds pretty interesting, if it could be implemented.

On 11/24/2020 at 4:10 AM, WindDemon21 said:

Will check back on those after breakfast, it's nom nom time! Lol

Long breakfast, huh? 😛

[oedipus_tex]

8 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

If it were any other cone than Shiver, I'd be inclined to agree with you...but it has a 135 degree arc, one of the widest ranged cones in the game, if not the widest.

Long breakfast, huh? 😛

 

While I agree that Shiver is wide, 135 degrees is still only about 1/3rd of a circle. In the context of the set it's fairly unwieldly.

 

What complicates things is you can't aim the cone wherever you want, it requires you to target an enemy in the reticle. There are cones out there that fire in front of you without a target, but that isn't how Shiver works. Since you're so close to the targets, them running or being knocked back a little to the left or right can really mess you up. 

 

We could make Shiver require no target, but I'd much rather one of these 2 solutions:

• Make it a 50ft radius sphere placeable within ~20 ft range (developers may feel 35ft sphere with 40ft range is more appropriate, either would be much better options than the current cone and cover roughly the same blast area), range enhanceable
  • When placing a sphere there are no accidents where +Range results in a larger blast area: the only thing that changes is how far away you can place the sphere
• Make it a 360 degree "cone" that takes Range enhancements

 

 

[EDIT: Some fidgeting with placeable drop distances to get math closer to current Shiver reach]

Edited November 25, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Blackfeather]

3 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

While I agree that Shiver is wide, 135 degrees is still only about 1/3rd of a circle. In the context of the set it's fairly unwieldly.

 

What complicates things is you can't aim the cone wherever you want, it requires you to target an enemy in the reticle. There are cones out there that fire in front of you without a target, but that isn't how Shiver works. Since you're so close to the targets, them running or being knocked back a little to the left or right can really mess you up.
 

We could make Shiver require no target, but I'd much rather one of these 2 solutions:

• Make it a 50ft radius sphere placeable within ~20 ft range (developers may feel 35ft sphere with 40ft range is more appropriate, either would be much better options than the current cone and cover roughly the same blast area), range enhanceable
  • When placing a sphere there are no accidents where +Range results in a larger blast area: the only thing that changes is how far away you can place the sphere
• Make it a 360 degree "cone" that takes Range enhancements

I'm going to point out that Shiver is wider than the buffed Shadow Maul that the HC team implemented a while back, bumping it up from 'bad' to 'really good' - and at 'only' 120 degrees to Shiver's 135. Even Katana's Flashing Steel, one of the widest melee cones in the game at 130 degrees is narrower by a small margin.

 

Both powers work excellently in melee range, and are both targeted in nature. I'd argue that if they can do so, Shiver belongs in the same category as them, if not higher, with the unique benefit of having a much higher range than them.

 

While either of those two proposed changes would certainly make Shiver easier to use, I'd argue that it was designed from the start to work excellently regardless of distance of use from the enemy, and is thus not that needed.

 

Plus, and this is of course going to be subjective, but I happen to like cone powers, and would prefer to keep one of the best examples of them around. 😛

[WindDemon21]

6 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

Make it a 360 degree "cone" that takes Range enhancements

I'm fairly certain that the coding doesn't exist for a cone greater than a 180 degree cone aka backwards. If that existed then they could just make all pbaoe powers a 360 degree "cone" and thus affected by range modifiers. Don't get me wrong I would LOVE that, I just think it's one of those spaghetti code nightmares.

 

3 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

Plus, and this is of course going to be subjective, but I happen to like cone powers, and would prefer to keep one of the best examples of them around. 😛

Agreed, I like it best as a cone, cause it lets you use it out of battle if needed to a way better effect. The duration just needs bumped up massively so you don't have to spam it.

 

15 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

Long breakfast, huh? 😛

It was, and you don't want to know the day I had after. Then i27 hit... lol.

 

Also, something that we've all been missing that I thought of, that can be unique to ice control, IS the "shiver/freezing" mechanism. Not just casing in ice, flash freeze and the holds already do that. I'm talking, even if specifically only to shiver, that they just stand there and shiver in place, kind of like the vomit of poison/traps etc. It would be a unique mechanism that adds to the control, and can even be guaranteed on the first hit of shiver. So it's a non-enhanceable "hold", but makes them all shiver and will proc every so often to do that for it, and any other -rech/slow powers in the ice control set.

 

Looking at those other posts seems to be in line on the previous versions really. I think that whole new shiver mechanic fixes a lot of issues without overpowering it, and it can be a factor for any power in ice control basically. I'm fine with flash freeze being really the only "self" opening power. Any other time there is any melee to start it shiver/aa/ice slick/frostbite with the "oh crap" power glacier feels fine to me. Freeze just needs to be better at that initial strike, aka no up front damage.

 

As far as increasing damage, having just shiver, possibly all powers depending on amount/unresistable etc, make sense to have a -resist portion to them as well, or a -hp debuff would make sense also allowing more damage to be done essentially.

[Vanden]

3 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

I'm fairly certain that the coding doesn't exist for a cone greater than a 180 degree cone aka backwards. If that existed then they could just make all pbaoe powers a 360 degree "cone" and thus affected by range modifiers. Don't get me wrong I would LOVE that, I just think it's one of those spaghetti code nightmares.

I never got the impression that PBAoE powers were unaffected by range changes because the game couldn't support it...

[WindDemon21]

4 minutes ago, Vanden said:

I never got the impression that PBAoE powers were unaffected by range changes because the game couldn't support it...

That could certainly be, I wouldn't claim to be the end all knower of coding lol. But I feel like with at least something it would have been done by now if it was possible. I would be 100% for that change if it IS possible though lol.

[oedipus_tex]

4 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

I'm going to point out that Shiver is wider than the buffed Shadow Maul that the HC team implemented a while back, bumping it up from 'bad' to 'really good' - and at 'only' 120 degrees to Shiver's 135. Even Katana's Flashing Steel, one of the widest melee cones in the game at 130 degrees is narrower by a small margin.

 

Both powers work excellently in melee range, and are both targeted in nature. I'd argue that if they can do so, Shiver belongs in the same category as them, if not higher, with the unique benefit of having a much higher range than them.

 

While either of those two proposed changes would certainly make Shiver easier to use, I'd argue that it was designed from the start to work excellently regardless of distance of use from the enemy, and is thus not that needed.

 

Plus, and this is of course going to be subjective, but I happen to like cone powers, and would prefer to keep one of the best examples of them around. 😛

 

 

The original developers had some strange ideas about Ice Control. They gave it both Shiver and Arctic Air, which conflict with each other for positioning, and gave it Ice Slick and Frostbite, where Frostbite was needed for Containment but canceled knockdown (the latter was finally fixed by the Homecoming team over a decade later). Flash Freeze contains nuisance damage to prevent Sleep stacking, and the knockdown in Ice Slick cancels Sleep.

 

In short, Ice Control has always been a mess. The Shiver/AA conflict is a big part of it. There's one other set that mixes ranged and PBAoE mezz, but unlike Arctic Air, you don't need to stand on top of the enemies to keep the mezz going. 

 

If you don't mind the choppiness I have some old videos from live of Ice Control characters. Video quality isn't great. You can hopefully see here how awkward a cone power would be in these situations. Builds have changed a lot since those days, but this may give a sense of the combat flow. (I'd post more recent videos but the dev team has asked us to refrain from that.)

 

 

Notice the corner-casting Ice Slick in particular. Not possible with Shiver. Shiver is not a power that really fits into any easy rotation, because cones require line of sight and when they are as huge as Shiver is in length but lacking coverage near the point of origin they just aren't that useful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This one is mostly for the LOLs since I don't think anyone does this fire farm anymore altho you can really see why I wouldn't be using Shiver here.

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Blackfeather]

16 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

Also, something that we've all been missing that I thought of, that can be unique to ice control, IS the "shiver/freezing" mechanism. Not just casing in ice, flash freeze and the holds already do that. I'm talking, even if specifically only to shiver, that they just stand there and shiver in place, kind of like the vomit of poison/traps etc. It would be a unique mechanism that adds to the control, and can even be guaranteed on the first hit of shiver. So it's a non-enhanceable "hold", but makes them all shiver and will proc every so often to do that for it, and any other -rech/slow powers in the ice control set.

That's basically how Poison's Neurotoxic Gas works (25% chance for Mag 2 Hold via choking) - where do you think I got the idea of giving Shiver a 50% chance to Hold in the first place? Naturally, I'd be 'inspired' by Shiver v2. 😉

 

Though I'll say that I think that a guaranteed chance for lockdown would probably be a bit much, and I think @oedipus_tex and @th0ughtGun might agree on that. The former since they're fine with Flash Freeze being the only "alpha-breaker" in the set, and the latter because that might make Ice Control overly potent in the initial control department.

[xl8]

On 11/11/2020 at 4:36 PM, Blackfeather said:

Two words: Force Feedback. Delicious, delicious +Recharge.

I think given the changes to bonfire, this would be justified, but it would have to work in a similar way--chance is only applicable on cast to avoid being OP.

 

On 11/11/2020 at 7:23 AM, Blackfeather said:

Flash Freeze: Ranged (Targeted AoE), Minor DMG(Cold/Lethal), Foe Sleep, Summon Ice Formations

• Each affected enemy now summons a fragile, short lived ice formation

  • Summoned icicles apply -Recharge and -Movement in a small area

  • Has a small aura of immobilisation and taunt that affects the targeted enemy

  • Deals minor Cold/Lethal damage to targeted enemy if prematurely destroyed

-Rch, minor damage, TAoE enhs... yes, the rest is too OP.

[xl8]

On 11/12/2020 at 10:03 PM, krj12 said:

As someone who has an Ice/Cold controller,  the biggest issue is damage - or lack thereof.   This is probably the least damaging of all my characters, including a defender....

a moderate increase in damage in a couple of powers would be nice.

Mbe at lower levels. Ice trollers are devastating at 50+.

[krj12]

6 minutes ago, xl8 said:

Mbe at lower levels. Ice trollers are devastating at 50+.

Just curious which offensive powers are devastating, other than maybe procing them out, I don't see it.

[xl8]

1 hour ago, krj12 said:

Just curious which offensive powers are devastating, other than maybe procing them out, I don't see it.

Ice slick>Heat loss>sleet>frostbite>Frost breath>Ice Storm.

Yes, sleet, breath and storm get proc out, but this AC will have you taking alpha (and the majority of kills) in itrials.

Edited November 27, 2020 by xl8
AC ammendment

[Galaxy Brain]

43 minutes ago, xl8 said:

Ice slick>Heat loss>sleet>Frost breath>Ice Storm. Throw in frostbite for the KB res crowd.

Yes, sleet, breath and storm get proc out, but this AC will have you taking alpha (and the majority of kills) in itrials.

Just saying, there's only 1 ice control power there. 

[xl8]

3 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Just saying, there's only 1 ice control power there. 

Arctic air, frostbite, a proc out block of ice, and ice slick are key to the to the ice troller's attack. Esp. frostbite for containment.

I only mentioned the main attack chain plus 50.

Edited November 27, 2020 by xl8

[xl8]

On 11/25/2020 at 2:40 AM, oedipus_tex said:

What I personally really really do not want is a version of Shiver that is a still a cone and also a mezz.

90 degree ranged facing cone, 100% slow, -rch, minor damage?

Edited November 27, 2020 by xl8
-rch

[oedipus_tex]

A compliment I'll pay to the original development team is that all of the Control sets have unique mechanics. Some of them underperform in various ways, but at least they do so in beautiful ways. I think the Control sets, including Ice Control, are some of the best work the development team has done, even if I would like to tweak some of the specifics. 

 

That said, some criticisms of Ice Control are more than anecdotal:

• Cast times on the T1, T2, and T3 powers. These are longer than other sets, hurting Ice's DPA.
• Arctic Air and Domination. Paradoxically, this power is less powerful on Dominators than on Controllers. It should benefit from Domination somehow. We can't just not have Domination affect a power because it would be powerful. Domination is supposed to be powerful.
• Are -Recharge and -RunSpeed  a "Control"? The OG developers thought so when Ice Control was made for Controllers, so they gave Controllers identical -Recharge and -RunSpeed modifiers to Defenders. However, Dominators get weaker values. Why?
• Effectiveness and duration of knock patch powers. Ice Slick (and Earthquake) was designed before Bonfire became a knock patch. Ice Slick has 30 duration, 90 recharge, which is an identical uptime ratio to the APP versions of Bonfire, which have a 45 duration,120 recharge.
• Missing out on key slotting options. It didn't seem like a big deal at the time, but Ice Slick not taking KB sets forfeits some of the best slotting in the game.
• Jack Frost. Jack isn't the worst pet. But, he also doesn't stand out.

Edited November 27, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Blackfeather]

On 11/26/2020 at 3:23 PM, oedipus_tex said:

The original developers had some strange ideas about Ice Control. They gave it both Shiver and Arctic Air, which conflict with each other for positioning, and gave it Ice Slick and Frostbite, where Frostbite was needed for Containment but canceled knockdown (the latter was finally fixed by the Homecoming team over a decade later). Flash Freeze contains nuisance damage to prevent Sleep stacking, and the knockdown in Ice Slick cancels Sleep.

 

In short, Ice Control has always been a mess. The Shiver/AA conflict is a big part of it. There's one other set that mixes ranged and PBAoE mezz, but unlike Arctic Air, you don't need to stand on top of the enemies to keep the mezz going.

Eeeeeeeeeh. Yeah, I know what set you're talking about: Earth Control. Going to point out that Earth Control shared the same issues with Earthquake and their AoE Immobilise and Knockdown cancellation, along with the fact that their own PBAoE Sleep similarly conflicts with it (and frankly, Salt Crystals could do with a similar change to the one I'm proposing with Flash Freeze).

 

I've already explained my case for why Shiver and Arctic Air don't conflict: the 135 degree wide cone means that the user's basically hitting all your desired targets regardless of distance - take a look at how effective even melee range cones are at slightly smaller degrees, and then multiply that by the fact that it can reach further distances. It's one of the widest ranged cones in the game, if not the widest.

On 11/26/2020 at 3:23 PM, oedipus_tex said:

If you don't mind the choppiness I have some old videos from live of Ice Control characters. Video quality isn't great. You can hopefully see here how awkward a cone power would be in these situations. Builds have changed a lot since those days, but this may give a sense of the combat flow. (I'd post more recent videos but the dev team has asked us to refrain from that.)

 

Notice the corner-casting Ice Slick in particular. Not possible with Shiver. Shiver is not a power that really fits into any easy rotation, because cones require line of sight and when they are as huge as Shiver is in length but lacking coverage near the point of origin they just aren't that useful.

I'm going to point out that none of those videos have Shiver actually being used in them - I don't think it's fair to make assertions about how a power can't be used at a close distance if the videos in question don't directly dispute that. 😛

 

Plus, even if your statements are accepted as accurate (i.e. that Shiver doesn't fit into any rotation well, and it's unwieldy at close range), that's frankly an argument for giving Shiver more ways of being useful. In this case, as a semi-reliable opener by having a 50% chance of a Mag 2 Hold.

 

That'd give it a defined place in a rotation (locking some enemies down before getting into range), and solve the whole close range business (which I personally don't see as an issue given my aforementioned reasoning) at the same time.

[oedipus_tex]

19 minutes ago, Blackfeather said:

I've already explained my case for why Shiver and Arctic Air don't conflict: the 135 degree wide cone means that the user's basically hitting all your desired targets regardless of distance - take a look at how effective even melee range cones are at slightly smaller degrees, and then multiply that by the fact that it can reach further distances. It's one of the widest ranged cones in the game, if not the widest.

 

I appreciate that we both have strong feelings about Ice Control and I value your suggestions. I'm glad you raised the topic of Ice Control because it is a set that is dear to me, my favorite in fact, even if I think it underperforms.

 

The builds in the video I posted don't have Shiver. It's a power I've taken numerous times thinking it won't be that bad, and then spec out of because it turns out not to be worthwhile. 135 degrees is about 1/3rd of a circle. That's a big area if the enemies are in front of you. If they are inside Arctic Air though it means 2/3rds of the area is unaffected. That is why I think Shiver is a better power on Blasters than Controllers/Dominators. The context is different.

 

Part of the reason for skipping it is the short duration. If it was updated for the newer Blaster version it would only be slightly more attractive. The issue is the blast area and the fact that a huge cone used at close range has a hard to predict area of effect that tends to needlessly aggro far off enemies.

 

For close to two decades Shiver has been a skippable power, which has prevented the optimal strategy from being hopping back from melee to use the cone and hopping back in. Any substantial buff to Shiver without modifying its blast area would make the set less unenjoyable to me rather than more. 

[oedipus_tex]

I've been giving more thought to how to update Shiver and wonder if this wouldn't be a decent compromise:

 

 

Shiver v2.0

• 135 degree arc, 60ft range, recharge 30
  • Targets in cone:
    • -81.25% Recharge for 1 min
    • -81.25% RunSpeed for 1 min
  • Main target:
    • -20% Recharge for 30 seconds (unresistable) 
    • Mag 3 Confuse for 37.25 sec (Dominator: 29.8 sec)
      • In Domination mode: +Mag 3 Confuse for 44.7 sec

 

Mind you I'd still dislike the cone shape, but if the main effect was centered on one target it would be easier for me to justify not hopping out of AA range to fire it. There's also a general rule that Control sets don't get AoE Holds outside their 240 second one (though Mind Control contains an exception). They're allowed to have single target Confuses tho. The normal recharge of a Controller single target Confuse is 8; this one is 30 since its also a debuff.

 

With this change, Shiver would be slottable with Coerceive Persuasion in a much more sensible way than Arctic Air currently is. The ability to proc the short duration confuse in the Contagious Confusion set would pair nicely with the -Recharge in Shiver by causing enemies to use their powers on each other and then not be able to cast anything else.

 

The unresistable portion of Recharge more or less matches the unresistable portion of Siphon Speed from Kinetics and gives Ice Control some limited ability to control AVs.

 

I do think Dominators should get the same -Recharge as Controllers because Defenders and Controllers also get identical values. 

 

I'd still much rather a sphere than cone mind you. Years of wrestling with the awkwardness of Shiver have left me skeptical of its value paired with AA. This is less a judgment of its power than the fusiness of having to hop back and forth to use the power optimally. 

Edited November 27, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[WindDemon21]

I love the cone on shiver, but part of why is because it covers such a large area, but I do share part of the annoyance using it in melee, but I also love using outside of melee and not having to enter melee in certain situations.

 

As a compromise I would suggest something unique for it similar to fulcrum shift. It is a wide area 50ft radius both pbaoe AND taoe. The debuffs from each would not stack. So this way you can use it both in and out of melee.

 

In addition to obviously to an increased 45 second duration.

 

Then the chance to hold or whatever else can be determined after those base stats. But I would be more than happy with JUST those changes.

 

It's an area soft control though. Definitely nothing specifically stronger to just a single target.

[oedipus_tex]

10 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

I love the cone on shiver, but part of why is because it covers such a large area, but I do share part of the annoyance using it in melee, but I also love using outside of melee and not having to enter melee in certain situations.

 

As a compromise I would suggest something unique for it similar to fulcrum shift. It is a wide area 50ft radius both pbaoe AND taoe. The debuffs from each would not stack. So this way you can use it both in and out of melee.

 

In addition to obviously to an increased 45 second duration.

 

Then the chance to hold or whatever else can be determined after those base stats. But I would be more than happy with JUST those changes.

 

It's an area soft control though. Definitely nothing specifically stronger to just a single target.

 

 

Would you be willing to trade the Hold for Confuse? 

 

The Confuse in Arctic Air is one of the genius bits of design by the OG developers. Normally, -Recharge doesn't have a lot of value because enemies have to use their powers for it to mean anything. But since AA Confuses them into attacking each other and thus forcing their powers onto Recharge without expending the power on the player the -Recharge is useful.

 

In my previous suggestion I suggested the Confuse affect only the main target. That's because when you add Dominators to the mix things start to get weird. I wouldn't mind a Mag 6 Confuse on a single target with the ability to proc Contagious Confusion (which is a proc so never Dominates). 

 

I could see Shiver having a very low duration AoE Confuse identical to Arctic Air (~3.5 seconds on Controllers) without disrupting too much either.

Edited November 28, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Galaxy Brain]

On phone so I can only do a quick response:

 

Re: AoE sleeps, I feel that each AoE sleep should have a unique perk per control set. 

 

Elec has this with it being a refreshing sleep.

 

Mind Control iirc is super fast and easy to use.

 

Others like Flash Freeze and Salt Crystals could use something. Flash Freeze getting "shatter" for damage potential as you break the sleep would be cool. Idk what salt would have but something unique as well would be nice. 

[WindDemon21]

1 hour ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

Would you be willing to trade the Hold for Confuse? 

 

The Confuse in Arctic Air is one of the genius bits of design by the OG developers. Normally, -Recharge doesn't have a lot of value because enemies have to use their powers for it to mean anything. But since AA Confuses them into attacking each other and thus forcing their powers onto Recharge without expending the power on the player the -Recharge is useful.

 

In my previous suggestion I suggested the Confuse affect only the main target. That's because when you add Dominators to the mix things start to get weird. I wouldn't mind a Mag 6 Confuse on a single target with the ability to proc Contagious Confusion (which is a proc so never Dominates). 

 

I could see Shiver having a very low duration AoE Confuse identical to Arctic Air (~3.5 seconds on Controllers) without disrupting too much either.

Oh yeah I'm fine with that too AS LONG AS the stats for it first and foremost as it should be happen before any other balancing factor. Ie 45 second duration (full value, we have the ORIGINAL main version of the power, it SHOULD be better).

[oedipus_tex]

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

On phone so I can only do a quick response:

 

Re: AoE sleeps, I feel that each AoE sleep should have a unique perk per control set. 

 

Elec has this with it being a refreshing sleep.

 

Mind Control iirc is super fast and easy to use.

 

Others like Flash Freeze and Salt Crystals could use something. Flash Freeze getting "shatter" for damage potential as you break the sleep would be cool. Idk what salt would have but something unique as well would be nice. 

 

 

I think all of them should have a 15 second recharge like the Electric one. 

 

I could see Ice Slick being changed to no longer knock over enemies who are Sleeping. Might be a bit of a stretch for Earthquake but maybe we could justify it somehow.