Pool Power challenge - Acrobatics

[Soyuz]

SO I went mad recently and decided to start a challenge character. The rules are simple. Only those powers you have to take from the primary and secondary. From 4th level onwards, only pool powers. There's a very clear warning to potential team-mates in the character's bio, I have macros explaining the situation and the character's name is "Pool Boy". I didn't want to mislead anyone.

 

That said, I do want the character to be able to solo. My question is this: Does Acrobatics actually work? What mag is a typical mob hold and will Acrobatics stop at least one? I know it's not going to be the same as a proper mez protection power - it doesn't stop Stun or Sleep, according to Mids, and the hold protection is only Mag 2 - but if it'll stop a single hold, it will allow the character to function at the lower difficulty levels.

 

Has anyone got any experience of building a character like this, and if so, do you have any suggestions? Other than avoiding Malta and the Night Ward.

[Gulbasaur]

2 minutes ago, Soyuz said:

Does Acrobatics actually work?

It's really low mag but it does work.

 

It basically gives you one "free" hold bypass, but more than that and you'll be held. It's better than nothing. The most common hold you across the game is (in my opinion) the Mind/Fortunata/Council Vamp Dominate power, which is hard one to build around because it bypasses positional defence - it only factors in psi defence and ignores range, so perhaps counter-intuitively building for Psi defence might (situationally) get you quite far in terms of avoiding Holds, although only against one specific power so it's probably not worth it.

 

It's a bit better for knockback coverage, though.

[nihilii]

The average hold is mag3 and (I think) player characters have mag2 resistance by default, so Acrobatics will indeed stop one hold.

If you don't mind using inspirations (as they drop, no need to stock up or anything), a pool boy character is viable if slow.

[Luminara]

51 minutes ago, Soyuz said:

Has anyone got any experience of building a character like this, and if so, do you have any suggestions?

 

I do.  I created a similarly restricted character in Issue 5.

 

Don't waste time on Acrobatics.  Stuns and Sleeps are far more common than Holds, and you'll have protection from neither.  That was one of the problems I ran into, and why I eventually respeced out of Acrobatics and changed tactics.

 

Your best anti-mez is going to come from Air Superiority or Rune of Protection.

 

Air Superiority is Knock Up, and it's not a chance for KU, it's guaranteed (barring KU protection and animation issues, both of which occasionally occur).  Put the mezzer on its ass and keep it there, and it can't mez you.  Of course, you can't do that with Air Superiority alone.  Even if you drop the recharge time low enough to spam it, it doesn't override its own animation, so it won't knock a critter up when it's in the process of being knocked up or standing up.  You need to chain it with one or more other attacks, and you need to use it at appropriate intervals, meaning, when the critter is back on its feet.

 

Rune of Protection is complete protection from status effects, but it's on a long click timer.  It can't be made permanent.  Best you can likely hope for is about 50% up time, but if you proceed slowly, or use it as an always-available Break Free, and don't deliberately push up the difficulty so you're facing multiple mezzers in every spawn, you should be fine with it.

 

Barring either of those options, the Presence Pool has two Fears; the Fighting pool has Boxing and Cross Punch, both of which have a chance to Stun; and the Force of Will pool has a couple of powers with chance for KB.  Stacking your own mez is just as effective as having status protection, and if your primary/secondary offers anything useful, you can leverage that in conjunction with pool options.  Building up massive +Def also works, if you're using IO sets, and with several pool powers offering +Def, it's reasonably easy to make it work, especially if you're layering it with -ToHit (which is in Weaken Resolve, a Force of Will pool power).

 

When you make it to 35+ and can start looking at *PPs, you'll have additional options.  More mez of your own, more soft control, more +Def, et cetera, and might be able to redesign your character around that.

 

Lastly, learn which mechanics you can abuse.  Powers which cause critters to scatter, like Caltrops, to make one example, can prevent mez simply by keeping the mezzer occupied with running away.

[SentaiLavender]

I ran a similar challenge. I have a character on Excelsior named Totally Boring Man who only uses "realistic" pool powers (i.e., things a normal human could theoretically do -- powers from Fighting, Speed, Leaping, Leadership, and Body Mastery, with no Primary or Secondary powers in use).

 

 

He does use Acrobatics, and it does "work." But I agree with the point @Luminara made above: your biggest issue is probably going to be Stuns. That's the only mez that has ever noticeably annoyed me while playing Totally Boring Man. I ran a TinPex with him the other night and got Stunned twice, but he did recover quickly.

 

If you get all the way to Incarnates with this challenge, you can always pick Clarion for your Destiny. I personally went for Barrier on my character, and it keeps his Defense high enough that a lot of mezzing attacks just miss anyway, but I suppose Clarion's another option if mez really bugs you.

 

There's also Rune of Protection, but I can't speak for its effectiveness here. Totally Boring Man couldn't pick Sorcery... too interesting for him.

[Snarky]

I run a Dark Armor Brute.  I recently tanked the Minds of Mayhem Trial with him.  Dark has no -kb and i use one i/o for 4 pts protection.  Then again, there is zero KB in that trial.  Or most of the game.  Read that last sentence again.  4pts prot is roughly equal to 8 pts prot 99% time you need kb prot.  After that you need 10-12 + to make any difference.  

 

I recently got pinballed pretty hard in a hami raid.  flying and trying to melee yellows.  

 

4pts KB protection is good 99.9% of all encounters.  THen again, Invul Armor is the toughest thing in the game....until a psychic boils your brain pan.  Which is rare, but when it happens.  Sheesh.

 

So, what are your build goals, and what do you want to sacrifice to get there?  I like 4pts.  I like Invul better, but I am maining Dark right now.  So, 4 pls

[MTeague]

Really, if I was going to do a "Pool Boy" character, I'd try to run with an Empath or other support class to keep Clear Mind on him.

Even if a lot of posted builds are designed to be able to solo anything, there's no shame in having a weakness that a Support character can...well.... SUPPORT....you by covering that gap with a buff.

[Doomguide2005]

This is where I really wish I could get in game (and see combat attributes).

 

I agree with Luminara that other Mez is a bigger issues.  I also agree Stun is more likely to get you dead.  It's not even that sleep is unusual, but it tends to be more annoying and self limiting.  Sure some sleeps are dangerously damaging but with many the damage is fairly minor and they'll wake you up again with a different attack you get off an attack or three then they put you to sleep again etc..  Defense should help a lot here in the age of IOs.

 

At one time I solo'd my Emp/Rad/Dark in Cimeroran repeatables.  I did so on "Invincible" difficulty.  She did two things that helped particularly against mobs with 2 Cimmie bosses.  As Luminara described she used Air Superiority to keep one boss bouncing while using Cosmic Burst on the other to keep them stunned.  Combined with her two Auras (and inspire use, HA) this was enough to handle what damage did get through especially while dealing with the rest of the mob.  Secondly she had the Eye of Magus accolade power and would use that to buff her otherwise essentially non-existent defense and resistance (the build was all about recharge).  If I did use her Nuke it was while both her RA and Geas of the Kind Ones were running ... nukes weren't crashless, yet.  But it was definitely slow going when the Auras were down.

 

[Grouchybeast]

11 hours ago, Soyuz said:

That said, I do want the character to be able to solo. My question is this: Does Acrobatics actually work? What mag is a typical mob hold and will Acrobatics stop at least one? I know it's not going to be the same as a proper mez protection power - it doesn't stop Stun or Sleep, according to Mids, and the hold protection is only Mag 2 - but if it'll stop a single hold, it will allow the character to function at the lower difficulty levels.

When I was duoing a MM and Blaster, I found that Acrobatics was actually really helpful.  We were doing okay until we reached the RWZ, and then the sheer amount of Holds being thrown around meant I just couldn't keep the flow of breakfrees high enough.  Acrobatics sorted that out, and while the odd hold made it though, I could easily counter them with breakfrees.

 

I don't know if you're planning to use sets, but if you do then building in some +def will help a lot.

[Luminara]

12 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Sure some sleeps are dangerously damaging but with many the damage is fairly minor and they'll wake you up again with a different attack you get off an attack or three then they put you to sleep again etc..

 

Certain situations can occur, like facing multiple Tsoo Yellow Ink Men even at +0/x1.  You'll never encounter more than one critter with a Hold in a spawn at +0/x1.  You'll only encounter more than one critter with a Stun in spawns under similar conditions once in a while, and then it's only a chance to Stun.  But Sleeps... yeah.  You can be chain-Slept and killed even when the damage is minor.  It's a long, slow, horrible way to be defeated.

 

That's what makes Sleeps worse than Holds or Stuns.  Even at default difficulty, it's the most prevalent status effect, and it's not dangerous because it's widespread, it's dangerous because when critters with Sleeps can spawn, they can spawn en masse.

[Doomguide2005]

6 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Certain situations can occur, like facing multiple Tsoo Yellow Ink Men even at +0/x1.  You'll never encounter more than one critter with a Hold in a spawn at +0/x1.  You'll only encounter more than one critter with a Stun in spawns under similar conditions once in a while, and then it's only a chance to Stun.  But Sleeps... yeah.  You can be chain-Slept and killed even when the damage is minor.  It's a long, slow, horrible way to be defeated.

 

That's what makes Sleeps worse than Holds or Stuns.  Even at default difficulty, it's the most prevalent status effect, and it's not dangerous because it's widespread, it's dangerous because when critters with Sleeps can spawn, they can spawn en masse.

You're probably right.  It's been quite a while since I've solo'd such mobs particularly on a squishy while leveling up.  I do remember a set of DE missions where entire load outs of breakfrees weren't enough to get through owing to the various mezzing fungoids.  My poor Kin/Psy defender 😴

[dtjunkie]

Back on live I made a toon for the tough guy challenge and I tried to recreate that here on homecoming. Meet Posh:

 

 

Rules:

1. No primary or secondary powers

2. Only original power pools

3. No P2W

4. No Auction House

5. Can buy enhancements from contacts

6. No IOs unless the recipe and salvage needed to craft it drop.

7. Solo

 

There's a reason he's only level 18! I've yet to select Acrobatics but it will happen at some point.

 

[Player2]

Hah, I just posted about my level 32 defender in another thread, about how all primary/secondary powers are skippable once you hit level 4.  Two primaries, one secondary, and all pool powers.  I do have the Day Job power of Beguile, as well as the prestige powers (Blackwand, Nemesis Staff, Ghost Slaying Axe, Red Wisp Pet, and Inner Inspiration)... but no purchased attacks like the sledge hammer, louisville slugger, or pistol, and no purchased buff powers.  I do okay soloing at standard difficulty...  no +4/x8 for me.  😁

 

 

[Pengy]

The name Pool Hustler was available on Torch, so I decided to try this challenge. With that name, his first pool will be Speed.

[dtjunkie]

Flurry's animation time can be a death sentence.

[Player2]

6 hours ago, dtjunkie said:

Flurry's animation time can be a death sentence.

And yet, I still use it on a few of my characters.  I have a dark melee speedster named Turbofist where my attack chain is Flurry, Dark Maul, Sands of Mu, and back to Flurry again.

 

Whatever's still standing in front of me after that gets dedicated ST attacks.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Player2

[Soyuz]

Thanks for all the replies so far. It's been very helpful.

 

Part of the problem I'm having is that (I think) you can only have four pools! There's so much more I could do if I could dip into more of them.

 

As it is, I knew the bulk of my offence was going to come from the Fighting pool, along with Tough and Weaver for defensive purposes. That's one pool. I wanted Sorcery for Rune, as the ultimate back-up plan in case of mez, plus I just like Mystic Flight. That's two. I wanted Acrobatics (pending the feedback from this thread) from the Leaping pool, whih also gets you Combat Jumping for protection from immobilisation. That's three, leaving only one other pick.

 

I agonised over the Flight pool, but ultimately I only wanted it for Air Superiority. Like Luminara, I really rate it as an attack for its guaranteed ability to knock targets off their feet. I had a Claws scrapper on retail who used to chain it with Focus to keep tougher opponents bouncing. It worked really well to stop Paragon Protector bosses from popping MoG, for instance. That whole strategy of defence-by-control has let me take an Ice/Atomic/Force blaster to level 48, mainly solo and deliberately going after the tougher challenges... like Malta and the Night Ward. A Zeus Titan can burn her down in seconds if I'm not careful, but she's also pulled off some really unexpected feats, like surviving the multi-boss ambushes in the Warriors arc.

 

Back to Pool Boy though. Unfortunately, if I'm taking Sorcery and Leaping then Air Superiority is the only thing I would want from Flight and it seems like a waste to take a whole pool just for the one power, even that one. I was initially thinking Medicine as a fourth pick, but the slow animation times seem like a problem, so at the moment I'm trialling the Concealment pool (basically, trial and error led me to the same choices as Player2). I figure I'll get further by stealthing some missions than I would by marginally adding to my survivability with Aid Self. Plus there's Group Invisibility for teams, Misdirection for soloing and Phase Shift as a panic button.

 

But I really, really wanted the Speed pool too...

[Six-Six]

Sounds like the perfect opportunity to run a petless MM 😃

Ok, just rolled Li'l Red. Beast/Dark MM. Reunion.

Also rolled a Demons/Storm MM. Now at level 8

 

Regarding the rules...

1. No primary or secondary powers She DOES have a pet (T2 primary), and an occasional Hawk (T3) as well until the tertiary pools open up at level 4

2-6. Only original power pools. No P2W. No Auction House. Can buy enhancements from contacts. No IOs unless the recipe and salvage needed to craft it drop. I won't be adhering to this too much since I already have a few toons that do this. I'm much more interested in the no primary and secondary powers. Instead, I'll be stricter with the tertiary power picks they get with respect to their origin. (i.e. Red took Experimental Pool Toxic Dart since she's Natural--I don't plan on taking Speed of Sound; similarly, Dee took Sorcery pool since she's Magic, and will probably take all of the 5 powers). Same goes for temp powers: I did get a few prestige powers, like Athletic Run, Inner Insps, and a wisp but no prestige enh. Red got the axe, Dee got the wand. I won't get Sands of Mu and XP boost from P2W. I'm still debating whether either of them will be purchasing temporary powers. 

 

7. Solo. I usually do... unless we bump into each other and decided to combine our gimped powers 😃

 

Update: I have quit Li'l Red from the challenge. Her concept is just too good to waste not taking the primaries and secondaries. If it's any consolation, I am still skipping some powers because of said concept (like no Lions, ...because wolves). I am retaining Dee in the challenge because her concept fits better for the challenge.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Six-Six

[dtjunkie]

On 12/20/2020 at 10:37 PM, Player2 said:

And yet, I still use it on a few of my characters.  I have a dark melee speedster named Turbofist where my attack chain is Flurry, Dark Maul, Sands of Mu, and back to Flurry again.

 

Whatever's still standing in front of me after that gets dedicated ST attacks.

 

For Posh, I seem to stay alive by continuously knocking down the bad guys. Before I respec'ed out of it, it seemed I was always still mid flurry and dying when I should have been hitting air superiority to knock em down again.

[MTeague]

On 12/21/2020 at 6:19 AM, Six-Six said:

Sounds like the perfect opportunity to run a petless MM 😃

Ok, just rolled Li'l Red. Beast/Dark MM. Reunion.

Also rolled a Demons/Storm MM. Now at level 8

 

Regarding the rules...

1. No primary or secondary powers She DOES have a pet (T2 primary), and an occasional Hawk (T3) as well until the tertiary pools open up at level 4

2-6. Only original power pools. No P2W. No Auction House. Can buy enhancements from contacts. No IOs unless the recipe and salvage needed to craft it drop. I won't be adhering to this too much since I already have a few toons that do this. I'm much more interested in the no primary and secondary powers. Instead, I'll be stricter with the tertiary power picks they get with respect to their origin. (i.e. Red took Experimental Pool Toxic Dart since she's Natural--I don't plan on taking Speed of Sound; similarly, Dee took Sorcery pool since she's Magic, and will probably take all of the 5 powers). Same goes for temp powers: I did get a few prestige powers, like Athletic Run, Inner Insps, and a wisp but no prestige enh. Red got the axe, Dee got the wand. I won't get Sands of Mu and XP boost from P2W. I'm still debating whether either of them will be purchasing temporary powers. 

 

7. Solo. I usually do... unless we bump into each other and decided to combine our gimped powers 😃

 

 

Wait.... people do Petless MM's that *AREN'T*  Whip-Based?  (or Thugs, for the old days before Dual Pistols....)

[Six-Six]

They're not exactly petless--Red's got doggos, Dee's got... erm... issues. And I've grown fond of throwing a bird at my enemies (I must say, the thought of chucking a bag of bees doesn't sound so bad either... might try it on her second build). In Dee's case, the absence of other attacks have made me realise that the Sorcery Pool's T2 and T4 aren't bad at all. Even the animation fits nicely with the theme. 😃 

Can't say which one I enjoy better.