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What are some good secondaries for Demon?


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I am curious what people consider aare the better secondaries?


I used to play Thugs/Storm on Live and really enjoyed the set - but I wanted to try something different.


I rolled a Demon/Poison - but I am regretting it - I feel like 5 mins recast time on the Noxious Gas - is just way to long.


Any good suggestions for secondary for demons?


There is no secondary reset correct? I will have to reroll?


I have a bunch of money on this toon, is there a way to transfer money ingame?



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Electrical Affinity I find is great on them.  Fast healing, good resists and you can also refill their Endurance during long fights.  It's a busy set, lots of clicks but it gets the job done really well. 


The only thing is Amp Up (the T9) doesn't work on your pets so that sucks.  Hopefully one day they fix that.

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Top tier - Nature, Thermal, Elec. Thermal is more offensive, elec is almost all defensive, nature is a decent balance of the two.  Dark also goes here, because the massive debuffs it brings along with the solid heal mean that properly played it's an absolute monster, but if you fuck it up it dies easier than the rest of the top tier, or miss your targeted heal at the wrong time, sometimes that 5% miss chance fucks you and there's nothing you can do. 


Good tier - Time, cold. Both defense to demons resistance base, but solid sets overall. Time will be more survivable, cold more offensive with the debuffs it has. 


Everything else comes after those. 

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2 hours ago, Force Redux said:

Dark, every day, all day. Desdemona knows the deal.


But as mentioned above, Thermal, Nature and Time are solid. Cold is also primo.

ty, I have to say I am not sure that I like the heal in Dark - it is very short range - and my minions tend to go into melee - so it forces me to go in to heal. 


But then again, lash from Demons is short range as well - does a melee mastermind work?

Edited by RudedawgCDN
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You could always go Rad.
YES, you'd still have to get in close.
But Rad's equipped for it.  And with a decent build, you become a demonic Roomba of death.



Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Demon Summoning
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Corruption -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg:50(3), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(3), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(5), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(5), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc:50(7)
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- Prv-Heal:50(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx:50(7), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg:50(9), Prv-Heal/Rchg:50(9), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx:50(11), Prv-Absorb%:50(11)
Level 2: Summon Demonlings -- SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx:50(13), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(13), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(15), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(15), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef:50(17)
Level 4: Lash -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx:50(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(23), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(23), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(25), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc:50(25)
Level 6: Radiation Infection -- RechRdx-I:50(A), AchHee-ResDeb%:20(27)
Level 8: Enchant Demon -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 10: Accelerate Metabolism -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(27)
Level 12: Crack Whip -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx:50(29), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(29), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(31), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(31), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc:50(31)
Level 14: Enervating Field -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 16: Summon Demons -- SprMarofS-Dmg:50(A), SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg:50(33), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx:50(33), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(34), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen:50(34)
Level 18: Mutation -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 20: Hell on Earth -- BldMnd-Acc/Dmg:50(A), BldMnd-Dmg/EndRdx:50(34), BldMnd-Acc/EndRdx:50(36), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(36), BldMnd-Acc:50(36), BldMnd-Dmg:50(37)
Level 22: Lingering Radiation -- Acc-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(37)
Level 24: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%:50(A)
Level 26: Summon Demon Prince -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg:50(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg:50(37), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(39), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg:50(39), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets):50(40)
Level 28: Choking Cloud -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold:50(A), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg:50(40), SprEnt-End/Rchg:50(40), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End:50(42), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg:50(42), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc:50(42)
Level 30: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc:50(A), UnbGrd-Max HP%:50(43)
Level 32: Abyssal Empowerment -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 35: Fallout -- OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg:50(A), OvrFrc-End/Rech:50(43), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End:50(43), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech:50(45), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech:50(45), OvrFrc-Dam/KB:50(45)
Level 38: EM Pulse -- UnbCns-Hold/Rchg:50(A), UnbCns-Acc/Hold/Rchg:50(46), UnbCns-Acc/Rchg:50(46), UnbCns-EndRdx/Hold:50(46), UnbCns-Dam%:50(48), UnbCns-Hold:50(48)
Level 41: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(48)
Level 44: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(50)
Level 47: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(50)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(17), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(19)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(19), PwrTrns-+Heal:50(21)
Level 2: Cold Demonling
Level 2: Fiery Demonling
Level 2: Hellfire Demonling
Level 16: Ember Demon
Level 16: Hellfire Gargoyle
Level 26: Demon Prince
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon


| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |


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If you want to be godlike, pick anything.

If you want to be GOD, pick a TANK!

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You didn't get an answer to your question about xfering inf - open an e-mail, put your global address (@ Whatever) into To: and put the amount of inf (up to 999,999,999) in the box marked for inf.


I personally put Cold at the tippity top for Demons, but others mentioned will work quite well.

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Thermal - Synergises very nicely with Demons both mechanically and themeatically. It has heals and some very nice debuffs.

Nature - Kind of a wonky theme, but it does perform well with Demons. Never played that combo myself, but it looks solid.

Dark - Does offer some debuffs and CC that is a big help to Demons, but it is more aggressive in playstyles. Some people like that though!


However, if you want to min/max, I would vote Electric, despite its buggyness (such as the T9 not affecting pets.) Here are some of the EA perks -


1. Near infinate END on demand, this frees up your incarnate slot later down the road, without having to slot ageless. On teams you can refill everyones END almost without having to focus on doing so.

2. Top teir defensive/survivability. Not in just terms of + defense, but it also has things like Farday's Cage that makes all your pets immune to status effects, including things like knockback. Which is a big help of keeping things within range of heals and such. It just stacks so many things for overall effect. Even your little Cinders from Hell on Earth get all the absorb shields and things.


To put things into perspective, My demons/EA was so tough that I could pull half the moon map in AE at once, and not only would I survive, all my pets would as well (on +4/8 with bosses enabled). The funny thing is, is it could clear the map faster than my brute could. Not because of damage, but because I could engage more enemies at a time, and survive it. Usually a player can only engage 16(?) enemies at a time, and can't hold threat beyond that. However, pets have their own aggro tables, so in theory each pet can "also" have 16 enemies fighting. Normally, this would be a cascading pet death situation. However, my Demons/Ea was tough enough to survive it. So while my brute was clearing 1-2 spawns (16 enemies at a time) faster, my MM was fighting 6-7 spawns (possibly 100+ enemies at a time. 16 x 7 - me, T2 pets, T6 pets, T8 pet) all at once, resulting in an overall faster map clear time. But I'll warn you, its "very" hectic doing that! Like, 10+ minutes of nonstop spamming/clicking/buffing/healing once you start. But it did feel pretty amazing standing atop of the pile once the carnage was done, particularly as an MM.


The downside to EA

1. Very busy set. If you are used to FF playstyle where you turn on toggles and just chill, this is the complete opposite. You are always healing, re-applying absorb shield, re-applying the -dam debuff, topping off END, etc. It's fast paced, so be aware of that.

2. Not much CC to speak of. It has that sleep ability, but its nothing to write home about. You are better off using something like web grenade or electric fences from Epic Pools.

3. While I personally rate it among the best defensively, its among the worst offensively. All you have to boost pets is your little +dam ability. Your t9 doesnt affect pets (but its fantastic on players.) The set has nothing to add more "oomph" to your pets, and it focuses entirely on defensive measures - Stacking a 10% + 20% -dam debuff, damage resistance boost, absorb shield, healing, and status effect immunity.


Neato ability -

1. One thing I am working on is a flying Mastermind to focus on group fly + fardays cage. (should work best with robos.) In theory, this will let all your ranged pets just fly and outgun enemies, all the while being out of reach for melee abilities, and immune to being knocked out of the sky due to Fardays Cage. Any ranged attacks they do have, should be simple to absorb and outheal. I don't think this would work for demons however, as you need ranged pets to make it work. I only mention it out of a sake of completeness.


Overall Demons is a solid pet set that you could "make it work" with any secondary really. But I think Thermal, Dark, Nature, or Time would all be excellent, with EA being overall best! But thats just my personal preferance! You may not like being all out defense minded.


Hope this helps!

Edited by Neiska
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Ended up going with time, and he is at 36 now.


It seems to be a very strong secondary, gameplay is smooth.


/bind KEY powexeclocation target Distortion Field


Makes things easier.


I wish the heals in MM in general had longer ranges. I mean fine if I am a melee character - short range to be expected - but a range character? GRRRRRR....


Demons are a blast to play.


And I edited my pet attack key to say; petcom_all Attack Defensive


I group a lot and they do aggro off once and a while, helps keep them reined in.



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So, I'm gonna go outside the box here and throw out a couple of secondaries that weren't really mentioned here: Storm and TA. Yes, I see you went with time already, which is a solid choice, but in case anyone else reads this thread, I wanted to chime in a bit.


However, my experiences with these powersets both lie in leveling and not at the level 50 area of gameplay.


I took a demons/cold to 50, I'm still not a huge fan of the combo; potential to be strong, but feels like it needs to be IO'd out to do so


I also have a demons/storm MM and a demons/TA MM. Demons/Storm is just oodles of fun and that character solo'd her way through most of Praetoria. This character has languished a bit lately, but, as someone else on these forums has said, this combo is like bringing forth the apocalypse. /TA (trick arrow) just got a rather massive buff thanks to the HC devs, so this character is more experimental than anything, but my thinking here was that demons are one of the tankiest MM pets, and the ember demon has heals for his buddies, so leveraging the debuffs that /TA brings should, in theory, help the demons do more damage.


Also, I wouldn't be too afraid of being near melee range on your MM, especially if you're controlling where your pets are going, who they're attacking, etc. I have a beast/kin MM who practically lives in melee, and will most certainly do so once I get her defenses up properly. MM's are not solely a ranged class, though it's your choice to play one that way (even empathy and pain dom have some of their heals attached to PBAoE abilities). If you're looking to just do the ranged thing, then you'll probably enjoy thugs, mercs, or bots more.

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Global: @Valnara1; Discord Handle: @Valnara#0620

I primarily play on Everlasting, but you may occasionally find me on Indom. 🙂

Notable Characters: Apocolyptica - Demons/Storm MM; Lurking Monster - Human-Form WS; Environmentabot - Bots/Nature MM; Miss Fade - Ill/Traps Controller; Sister Apocalypse - Beast/Dark MM; Dr. Elaina Wrath - Plant/Rad Controller (Join the House of Wrath, and spread the word of science!); Ruff Ruff Boom - AR/Devices Blaster

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On 12/29/2020 at 12:38 PM, Tacheyon said:

The only thing is Amp Up (the T9) doesn't work on your pets so that sucks.  Hopefully one day they fix that.

It doesn't? What doesn't work about it?

EDIT: Maybe you mean the +Recharge portion does nothing? If so, that isn't Amp Up not working. Pet recharge cannot be buffed. At all. So Amp Up works fine. It grants the +Special, and it grants the End Drain/Knock Up proc.

Edited by Wavicle
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2 hours ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

 /TA (trick arrow) just got a rather massive buff thanks to the HC devs...

oh I didn't know that! 


Do you have a link to the details?


ps - I played thugs/Storm and yes it is a very fun/powerful set - I just wanted to try something different.

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5 minutes ago, RudedawgCDN said:

Do you have a link to the details?

As it says, the exact numbers (where exact numbers are given) are the Defender values. The Mastermind versions are not as powerful, but got the same buffs (proportionally).



Powerset Revamp: Trick Arrow

Trick Arrow has suffered with performance issues for a long time, primarily due to the strength of the debuffs against higher level enemies, but also due to redundancy between powers in the set. We've made a comprehensive suite of improvements, impacting almost every power in the set.


Power Changes (Numbers provided are Defender values)

  • TrickArrow_Immobilize.png.e59211e1622b40a4856847c2cd4eb478.png Entangling Arrow
    • Immobilize duration reduced from scale 15 to scale 7
    • No longer has a -Recharge debuff
    • Now applies a 30s -Res debuff
      • PvP only: This effect is removed
  • TrickArrow_Blind.png.cad97249f539b19437876e6155eafb09.png Flash Arrow
    • Can now be slotted with Range enhancements
    • -ToHit increased from -6.25% to -18.76%
      • Half this debuff is now irresistible
  • TrickArrow_Slow.png.b1873252eb2d06593ddfb7699b3e09db.png Glue Arrow
    • -Recharge debuff increased from -20% to -40%
    • Debuff duration increased from 30s to 60s
    • This power is now location based
  • TrickArrow_Hold.png.cb279a1bfaca050187c01db7be51af9a.png Ice Arrow
    • Increased the -Recharge debuff from -12.5% to 25%
    • Now applies a 60s -Special and -Damage debuff
      • PvP only: -Heal, -Absorb and -Damage removed, the remaining debuffs only last 10s
  • TrickArrow_DebuffDamage.png.fd7715d340a8c55152ba9d6c4a49f5b9.png Poison Gas Arrow
    • -Damage debuff now lasts 60 seconds
      • PvP only: Debuff only lasts for 3s after you leave the cloud
    • -Damage debuff increased from -31.25% to -50%
      • Half this debuff is now irresistible
  • TrickArrow_DebuffDefense.png Acid Arrow
    • Debuff radius increased from 8ft to 15ft (damage still has an 8ft radius)
    • -Res debuff moved to Disruption Arrow
      • This power still has a -25% defence debuff
    • Now applies a heal resistance debuff (heals on the target will be less effective)
      • PvP only: Debuff halved
    • Now applies a -special resistance debuff (Endurance, ToHit, Regen, Recovery, Recharge Time, and Endurance Discount debuffs against the target will be stronger)
      • PvP only: Reduced to -20%
    • Debuff duration increased from 20s to 45s
      • PvP only: Duration is still 20s
    • This power has a new icon
  • TrickArrow_DebuffDamRes.png.45b6b29aad7c5b6f8cfe72093b9fb205.png Disruption Arrow
    • Target cap increased from 10 to 16
    • Now applies a -MaxEnd debuff and takes Endurance Modification enhancements and sets
    • -Res debuff doubled (moved from Acid Arrow)
    • Only one Disruption Arrow can be maintained at once
    • Recharge decreased from 60s to 30s
    • Duration increased from 30s to 45s
  • TrickArrow_Knockdown.png.690ada140f7c68e5771aaa1923c0f2ce.png Oil Slick Arrow
    • Can now be slotted with Range enhancements
  • TrickArrow_Stun.png.0865dc133adc883617d725c771441f58.png EMP Arrow
    • Can now be slotted with Range enhancements
    • No longer applies -recovery to the caster
    • Half of the -regen debuff now lasts 45 seconds (previously the entire -regen debuff dropped off after 15 seconds, now only half of it does)
    • Hold duration for non-robots reduced by roughly 50%
    • This power is now location based
    • This power now spawns an EMP Field at the target location that acts similarly to Electrical Affinity's Faraday Cage and provides:
      • 15% damage resistance to all but Toxic (not enhanceable)
      • Resistance against End Drain and Recovery Debuffs
      • Protection against status effects and knock back
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