Help me like Dominators

[Psyonico]

I've been playing a long time and one of the ATs that I just can't really get into is Dominators... I want to like them, but compared to Controllers they just feel really weak, I guess if I were to get one to Perma-Dom level that would change, but so far I just cant play them that much.  I always read Doms and think "this would be good Team AND Solo" but then it never feels that way.

 

SO

 

I come looking for suggestions on what Dominator may get me interested in the AT  I was thinking Electric Control because it's one of the sets that I've not gotten very high, but I also know Plant control is considered one of the best for Dominators, so I'm not against that either.  but what secondary should I go with?  Can I enjoy a Dominator without Perma-Dom, or do I just have to suck it up and play the build until I can get there (which I doubt I'd do)?

[oedipus_tex]

IMO best Dominator performance you'll get out of the box with no IO plans is /Fire paired with a mostly ranged Control set. You can build /Fire more or less how you'd build a (nukeless) Ranged Blaster who moves in occasionally for an endurance refill with Consume. Consume allows you to avoid the normal Dominator curse of poor endurance management. 

 

Plant/Fire is a good choice because even without a lot of IOs you still have good up time on controls. Dark/Fire is also pretty good for this, with most powers very reasonable and second hand some mitigation built in via -ToHit.

 

/Savage is another good secondary if you'd prefer something with a bit more melee focus.

[Coyote]

Electric also works well with cheap sets because it can rely on an Endurance drain mechanism for safety, but then you pair with a secondary that is short range.

 

Electric works well with Earth, Savage, Martial, Thorns, and Energy. Maybe Ice also.

 

[Psyonico]

How's Mind/Dark? It turns out I have one that is 25 (probably the highest I've ever gotten a Dom)  I know Mind Control pretty well from a Controller perspective, I know once I get terrify she'll be a lot stronger, but right now she just feels very "meh".

 

Edit:

Also, if I were to go Electric, what powers can I skip from there?

Edited January 8, 2021 by Psyonico

[Coyote]

Mind is a good primary for Dominators since it really works well with the Domination mechanism.

Dark secondary is not impressive at all, but it's not bad, either. Its ToHit debuffs make up for when Mind's hard control lapses, or helps survive return fire from mobs that are feared by Terrify but still able to shoot back. Damagewise it's not impressive but okay.

 

I think everything in Electric is good, so it's kinda hard to skip anything. Frankly, going for a draining build, I'd skip the AoE Hold since AoE Immobilize + End Drain = permaHold. Static Field and Synaptic Overload are available every fight and useful, and Conductive Aura is part of the End Drain plan. OH, for a Dominator, skip the single-target Immobilize... you can drain a single target with Tesla Cage plus Jolting Chain, and generally will have a Boss Held anyhow. It's needed for a Controller's damage, but a Dominator will have better attacks. So that gives you two powers to skip. Frankly, the AoE Hold is a useful power with 4 Basilisk's Gaze IOs for a nice Recharge bonus, so I would try to take it, but it's not useful in every fight like the other powers.

[Saikochoro]

I built several dominators before I got to one that stuck and I actually enjoyed. 
 

Plant/savage dom. I basically play it like a blapper with some control thrown in the mix. It is very satisfying. 

Edited January 9, 2021 by Saikochoro

[oedipus_tex]

Electric Control is in a slightly weird place IMO. It suffers more than any other set from having few AoE hard controls that Dominate--only the AoE Hold does. What keeps Electric Control from being in the same boat as Ice Control on struggling to shut down alphas is the contextually either very good (solo) or somewhat bad (on a team) Static Field sleep patch. 

 

Static Field annoyingly conflicts with damage over time abilities. Obvious conflicts are stuff like Caltrops and Thorntrops, but also some entire secondaries like Thorny, Fire, and Dark. It conflict with Earth Assault's PBAE damage aura, but not Icy's (Icy's won't damage sleeping enemies). It also conflicts with both Ice Storm and Sleet in the widely-considered top tier Ice APP. 

 

A point in Electric Control's favor is that sapping doesn't really have a recharge associated with it, so you can open with a mezz, sap endurance, and fight mostly helpless enemies from there. You don't run into the situation other sets do where you have to make a choice on whether to re-use a 90 to 240 second recharge power to re-mezz the couple of enemies left over in group you are fighting and slow down your ability to steam roll towards the next big group.

 

Electric Control is also the undisputed king of control sets... and maybe all powersets really... of controlling Elite Bosses. Endurance Drain drains a percentage of max endurance, so even though Elite Bosses have massive Endurance pools, Electric Control can floor them. This used to be really useful in the ITF. Teams are steamrolling the ITF these days so it may go unnoticed, but as a bragging rights thing, there is something to say for shutting down 6 ITF Cyclopses at once.

 

IMO the best secondaries for Electric Control are anything that has these characteristics:

• Deals direct damage instead of DoT (sets with lots of DoT are Thorny, Fire and Dark, as well as somewhat Savage and Martial; it also conflicts with Earth's damage aura)
• Anything that has a Power Boost like power to boost energy drain percent (Icy, Energy, Earth, Dark)
• Anything with lots of knockdown, which locks an enemy out from responding before being re-slept (Earth, Psi (single target))
• Anything that provides a backup buff or debuff effects to power you through not-as-strong mezzes (Psi, Dark)

 

Taking all this into consideration, I consider the strongest secondaries for Electric Control to be Icy, Psi, Earth (if you can deal with the damage aura conflict), or Energy. Electric Assault I guess could go in there too, but it's such an uninspiring set.

Edited January 9, 2021 by oedipus_tex

[Hew]

elec, fire, or plant are hands down winners for mixed response control on a dom. Earth is, well, earthy. There isnt a lot in earth that helps you kill faster. Fire, plant, and elec all have things built in to accelerate kill rate.

 

edit: i forgot about dark control, which is just amazing on a dom

Edited January 9, 2021 by Hew

[Psyonico]

Ok, I opted for Plant/Icy from the comments above, here is a build I came up with should I get her far enough... any recommendations would be appreciated.

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Missle Toe: Level 50 Science Dominator
Primary Power Set: Plant Control
Secondary Power Set: Icy Assault
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Strangler -- SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprAscoft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(3), SprAscoft-EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(13), SprAscoft-Rchg/+Dmg%(29)
Level 1: Ice Bolt -- Dcm-Acc/Dmg(A), Dcm-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Dcm-Dmg/Rchg(37), Dcm-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Dcm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42)
Level 2: Roots -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(3), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(25), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(37), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 4: Ice Sword Circle -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(5), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(15), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Obl-%Dam(46)
Level 6: Spore Burst -- FrtHyp-Sleep/Rchg(A), FrtHyp-Sleep(7), FrtHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(13), FrtHyp-Acc/Rchg(15), FrtHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(23)
Level 8: Seeds of Confusion -- CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(A), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(9), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(9), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(11), CrcPrs-Conf%(23)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Spirit Tree -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(43), Heal-I(46)
Level 14: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 16: Power Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Vines -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(19), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(19), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(25), Lck-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), Lck-%Hold(34)
Level 20: Frost Breath -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(21), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(21), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(40), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), Range-I(46)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Carrion Creepers -- Bmbdmt-Dam(A), Bmbdmt-Acc/Rech/End(27), Bmbdmt-Dam/Rech(27), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(29), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech/End(31), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(34)
Level 28: Chilling Embrace -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Grant Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Fly Trap -- Acc-I(A), HO:Perox(33), HO:Perox(33), HO:Perox(33)
Level 35: Ice Slash -- CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), CrsImp-Dmg/Rchg(36), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Bitter Ice Blast -- Dcm-Acc/Dmg(A), Dcm-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Dcm-Dmg/Rchg(39), Dcm-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Dcm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Sleet -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(45), LucoftheG-Def(45), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 47: Ice Storm -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(48), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(48), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(48), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Domination 
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(17), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(34)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(17)
------------

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[Spectre7878]

I have a few dominators. I am in the same boat. I like the idea of dominators. Control and damage is a great mix. The issue for me is they don’t always work out as I would like. I love my concepts that I have made, but they always feel a bit off or weak.  Especially really bad endurance issues. I wish they were better
 

I have

mind/psy 

plant/thorn

 

 

[Schiz0]

 

    Earth control is amazing on a dominator imo.  You get so much control it is crazy.  Even out of domination mode it is the same.  I barely notice a difference honestly.  I am sure this changes drastically with other primaries though.  I do agree though that endurance is a huge issue.  You can easily get past this with Drain Psyche.  That power is so good! I have to force myself to pick another secondary set over Psi.  It is horrible for AoE though, until you get Psychic Shockwave (which is amazing)

[Hew]

On 5/16/2021 at 5:27 PM, Spectre7878 said:

I have a few dominators. I am in the same boat. I like the idea of dominators. Control and damage is a great mix. The issue for me is they don’t always work out as I would like. I love my concepts that I have made, but they always feel a bit off or weak.  Especially really bad endurance issues. I wish they were better
 

I have

mind/psy 

plant/thorn

 

 

Plant/ta troller is pretty stupid good... Troller, not dom, but plant/ is so insanely good it makes everything zing. I think plant/thorn dom I would emphasize creepers, aoe immob, thorntrops, and enflame.

[Spectre7878]

I wish thorny assault was a bit faster and smoother to use. It feels so clunky.  But it fits my plant toon so well

 

 

[carnalchaos]

In my experience dominators are a bit of a late blooming toon even with all the damage options.  It could be lack of slots but the recharge boosts are a big part of it too.  Once you hit the thirties you get the slots you need and start working in the mid tier IO sets for recharge bonuses.  Dominators really turn into engines of destruction at this point where you know what your key powers are and they are cycling fast enough you don't need much filler.

 

For some reason some sets just don't feel really great on a dominator to me and I think it just comes down to how fast the main alpha breaker is on each set.  Plant, Dark and Fire all really work great, seeds of confusion, terror and flashfire all feel like fast and reliable alpha breakers that with recharge slotting can be up for every fight.  As a dom you will find yourself pushing the pace and opening a lot of combat if you don't have aggressive brutes or scrappers on a team.  As dominators recharge and powers speed up anything that slows you down feels like a hindrance.  

 

Once you get perma-domination on one you will really fall in love with the AT.  It gives perhaps one of the most rewarding end game experiences and changes to game play that I have found.  You will start wondering about other combos and what they will be like at perma-dom and you will be hooked.

 

 

[Max Firepower]

I found Earth (my fave control set) and Earth Melee was 'rock solid' once I used the tips in the Trust Fund Dominator thread.  Sam Anndreas (formerly Tek Tonik) dinged 50 and was able to either Dom/Control at a distance in steamrolling teams that needed more AoE control, or could bounce 'em til they dropped in Melee.  Highly recommend it, Psy!

[tidge]

On 1/8/2021 at 2:42 PM, Psyonico said:

I've been playing a long time and one of the ATs that I just can't really get into is Dominators... I want to like them, but compared to Controllers they just feel really weak, I guess if I were to get one to Perma-Dom level that would change, but so far I just cant play them that much.  I always read Doms and think "this would be good Team AND Solo" but then it never feels that way.

[Hardboiled Hero]

On 1/8/2021 at 2:42 PM, Psyonico said:

, but compared to Controllers they just feel really weak

  I'll never for the life of me understand how people can think something like this..  and you're not the only one.. I see people say it quite a bit.  It just makes no sense at all.

 

  Controllers get extra magnitude on their controls, but dominators get a vastly increased chance to effect more difficult targets and a number of other abilities when you choose to actually activate domination.  In general, is it better to have a smaller bonus that you get all the time, or a bigger bonus that you get whenever you need a bonus? because controllers get a small bonus all the time and dominators get the bonus they want when they want it.  With perma-dom you simply get the bigger bonus all the time, but honestly you don't need it in order for the dom to be better.

 

  So the dominator is better crowd control than the controller is, but then you have secondary powers as well.  The controller gets support powers and the dominator gets damaging powers. your probably thinking that the dominator loses out here, because there's really only one AT that doesn't get damaging powers (well..  I suppose one and a half considering masterminds.)  The thing is, controllers are competing with 3 other AT's for the support role..  and that role is generally considered unnecessary in the later stages of the game as well.  The only thing really "necessary" in the end-game is damage.. the one thing that controllers don't do.  Meanwhile, Dominators can actually get pretty good damage if they use their melee attacks without getting killed too much. (easier said than done, but not impossible with a decent tank and careful play)

 

  So dominators have better functionality on their primary, and a more consistently useful secondary.

 

  So what exactly makes them weak? (I know it was said they feel weak, but I never even got that feeling, as dominators are usually actively doing something, and controllers aren't)

[Psyonico]

Base duration (and therefore enhanced duration) lasts longer for controllers outside Domination.

 

For example, your ST hold for controller lasts 22.35 seconds, whereas, for a Dom, its 17.88.

 

where this really start to become a pain point is on AoE controls, where durations are already low on controllers, so the lower modifiers on Doms make them feel like weak versions of controllers.

 

Yes, when Domination is up, the controls feel fine, but since perma dom is not something that is available at level 1, they tend to feel weaker to me.

 

[MTeague]

While levelling, Dominators can feel weak, particularly in difficult missions when you're not Perma Dom yet, and you're trying to save Domination for a boss fight, but die before you get there, and now your domination bar is back to empty, and you might not have enough trash left to build it back up before the boss. 

 

I definitely experiencd that a few times in Praetoria, 1-20.  Missions with several waves of laser guided ambushes can be rough when you have very limited amounts of self-maintence (Panacea proc), and when you're afflicted by pride hubris causing you to crank the difficulty slider up a bit higher than you probably should at low levels.

 

But once you get to mid-20's, early 30's, that's when Dom's really start to shine. At least, in my experience. 

[oedipus_tex]

I like Dominators a lot as a class, and am constantly exploring their powers to figure out things I didn't previously know. But there are some things about them that are straightforward.

 

Dominators are in some ways exactly what they appear to be. A mixed range/melee class that mostly doesn't have access to heals, defense, resistance, or debuffing. There are exception cases (Psi's Drain Psyche, Dark Control's -ToHit, Fiery Assault's Consume, the Ice APP's Sleet). Most of these abilities are in sets considered top tier because they break the rules for the archetype. The couple of other top performers (Plant) are there because of numbers far more favorable than a standard set.

 

Domination is in some ways both a blessing and a curse. Yes, in Domination mode you can one-shot mezz a boss. But also because you have this potential ability, your secondary and APP sets are mostly bereft of reliable mezz. Dominators are a Control archetype, but have only one Hold power in all of their secondary and APP choices. Other archetypes do not have this restriction. A Controller or even certain Blasters, Defenders, Corruptors and Masterminds can stack a Hold. That is why people say Domination mode is so important. It's not just that the extra Hold is useful, it's that its the only access you even get to dealing with a Boss, and you (mostly) have no armor, buff, debuff or healing to deal with it if this fails.

[Hardboiled Hero]

On 5/29/2021 at 6:12 PM, Psyonico said:

Base duration (and therefore enhanced duration) lasts longer for controllers outside Domination.

...

 

..Yes, when Domination is up, the controls feel fine, but since perma dom is not something that is available at level 1, they tend to feel weaker to me.

 

 

  I see.. so dominators feel like a weak controller to you because the duration of their controls lower.

 

  The obvious response though, is that control duration only matters for the amount of time that it's actually necessary.  The dominator doesn't need the same duration because the dom kills stuff faster.  This playstyle is why doms who wish to fight against groups should be in a team; a controller who wishes to fight against groups (or anything else) should also be in a team.

 

16 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

I like Dominators a lot as a class, and am constantly exploring their powers to figure out things I didn't previously know. But there are some things about them that are straightforward.

 

  I really think the dom is far more straightforward than people give it credit for.  The dom is a crowd control AT but it isn't a controller.  If you think about the type of villain the dom represents.. the type that likes to toy with their prey before killing them, it should be pretty clear that the dom isn't JUST meant to control.. the Assault powers actually represent as big a key to how the dom is meant to be played as the control powers do. To be fair, the controller has secondary powersets also, but in the current state of the game, the dom's secondaries are more consistently useful.  Perhaps part of the reason some people consider doms to be weaker than 'trollers is because the dom doesn't really fit the hero mindset.  (and everybody plays on the hero side these days) Even the dom's controls aren't representative of a desire to assist their team, but rather from the desire to hinder enemies before killing them.

 

On 5/29/2021 at 9:01 PM, MTeague said:

While levelling, Dominators can feel weak, particularly in difficult missions when you're not Perma Dom yet, and you're trying to save Domination for a boss fight, but die before you get there, and now your domination bar is back to empty, and you might not have enough trash left to build it back up before the boss. 

 

  Yeah.. I certainly know that feeling.

[BrandX]

I know the feeling!  I come up with a concept and then just don't enjoy the build.

 

I REALLY want to play Grav/Energy but I can't make a build I enjoy and I hate the idea of sacrificing damage for what is the awesome Propel!

 

I'm hoping this changes, if Dom's ever get Illusion Control.

[FUBARczar]

If you want the most out of any Dom (with the exception being /Fire) then you will be playing in melee range like a Blapper.  Good news is you have status protection via Domination, so make it perma asap, which means hasten plus about another 80% global recharge.

 

If you are not in melee range then you are loosing out on AoE, and on most of the best damaging attacks from all the sets.

 

So Dominators are not an AT for playing it safe if you want to maximize damage, control, and frankly a Dominators potential.  

 

If you want range the play Mind/ Plant/ Earth/ Grav/ with /Fire.

[MaximusPrime]

Here's a Totally Playable and Likeable build for Grav/Energy

 

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[FUBARczar]

On 5/30/2021 at 8:54 PM, oedipus_tex said:

I like Dominators a lot as a class, and am constantly exploring their powers to figure out things I didn't previously know. But there are some things about them that are straightforward.

 

Dominators are in some ways exactly what they appear to be. A mixed range/melee class that mostly doesn't have access to heals, defense, resistance, or debuffing. There are exception cases (Psi's Drain Psyche, Dark Control's -ToHit, Fiery Assault's Consume, the Ice APP's Sleet). Most of these abilities are in sets considered top tier because they break the rules for the archetype. The couple of other top performers (Plant) are there because of numbers far more favorable than a standard set.

 

Domination is in some ways both a blessing and a curse. Yes, in Domination mode you can one-shot mezz a boss. But also because you have this potential ability, your secondary and APP sets are mostly bereft of reliable mezz. Dominators are a Control archetype, but have only one Hold power in all of their secondary and APP choices. Other archetypes do not have this restriction. A Controller or even certain Blasters, Defenders, Corruptors and Masterminds can stack a Hold. That is why people say Domination mode is so important. It's not just that the extra Hold is useful, it's that its the only access you even get to dealing with a Boss, and you (mostly) have no armor, buff, debuff or healing to deal with it if this fails.

 

Yes Domination is vital for that reason and b/c it is one's mez protection, because despite having range attacks Dominators are really a melee AT.  They are vest described as Blaptrollers. Which is also one of many reasons why for starters, Dominators should be given small boost in their damage modifiers equal to Blasters but in reverse.   They deserve a little reward for the higher risk they have to take to reach their potential and utilize many of its best attacks.

 

Archetype	Melee	Range
Blaster	1.000	1.125

 

Dominator

1.050

0.950